Can a character have two divine casting classes with two different deities?
Only clerics draw power from a god. Other divine classes do not normally. But I will say Gods do not like to share, why should they share a cleric with another god? Seems to me a road to being an ex-cleric.
I would say ask your GM as this is a totally setting based kind of question.
seekerofshadowlight wrote: Only clerics draw power from a god. Other divine classes do not normally. But I will say Gods do not like to share, why should they share a cleric with another god? Seems to me a road to being an ex-cleric.
I would say ask your GM as this is a totally setting based kind of question.
Yeah, it totally depends on the deity in question. Some deities might be buddies or partners of some sort and it's common to worship them as a single religion.
I don't see anything in the rules against it.
Alignment restrictions might make some combinations impossible.
I think it is a cool idea. I know very little but it is my understanding that in many ancient cultures, you were expected to worship several gods.
"On a sinking ship, everyone prays to Poseidon".
Not a real quote.
Although only clerics are technically bound to a single god, I can see a situation where a Cleric that's also a [Witch, Druid, Oracle, Inquisitor, Paladin] might feel that his/her loyalties were divided. To me this is not so much an "illegal combo" as one that a role-play-driven player would find quite entertaining. I'm reminded of Elric, whose sorcerous powers were very dependent on the good will of Arioch - but who also, of course, was owned very much by Stormbringer. It leads to more depth for the character as long as she's not dumb enough to sell herself to beings of deeply conflicting alignments or goals. (Applies to villains too: if Baphomet craves the destruction of the world, you can't very well claim to Belial that you'll conquer it in his name.)
considering a oracle paladin, not sure if either really needs a god in golarion or not
This is a setting question not a rules question really. Oracles are "drafted" they do not choose to be what they are. They are not servant of a single god, but of an aspect used by a few gods. Paladin is the same deal, they do not have to have a god, but if they do it must be one step.
Andrew R wrote: considering a oracle paladin, not sure if either really needs a god in golarion or not Neither a paladin nor an oracle needs to worship a god in Golarion. You just can't be an atheist divine caster. I think the idea of a paladin/oracle is really cool honestly.
As for clerics, according to everything I've read from James Jacobs, they can only worship one god. That doesn't mean they can't respect, appreciate, and even offer the occasional prayer to other gods, but their heart and soul only belongs to their divine patron. So even if you're a cleric with levels of oracle, druid, paladin, or whatever, you can still only worship one god.
Of course you're one house rule away from changing that.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Andrew R wrote: Can a character have two divine casting classes with two different deities? No... dieties are like cats, even within the same pantheon, they don't share.
There exceptions. In Eberron, a cleric can worship the Sovereign Host as a whole instead of individual dieties. The Host has it's own selection of domains.
LazarX wrote: Andrew R wrote: Can a character have two divine casting classes with two different deities? No... dieties are like cats, even within the same pantheon, they don't share.
There exceptions. In Eberron, a cleric can worship the Sovereign Host as a whole instead of individual dieties. The Host has it's own selection of domains. Well there is a reason for that :)
kyrt-ryder wrote: seekerofshadowlight wrote: Only clerics draw power from a god. Other divine classes do not normally. But I will say Gods do not like to share, why should they share a cleric with another god? Seems to me a road to being an ex-cleric.
I would say ask your GM as this is a totally setting based kind of question.
Yeah, it totally depends on the deity in question. Some deities might be buddies or partners of some sort and it's common to worship them as a single religion. I don't see an issue with this perspective, though I understand the devotion to a single deity cleric concept.
I've taken a liking to a primary deity with underling or associated deity reverence and recognition. Especially for my Half-Elf and multi-classed clerics lately.
For example, for my mythic game I play a half-elf Cavalier (Order of the Star devoted to Desna) Who became a cleric (Battlefield convert to Shelyn) and was born with a fascination for Cayden Cailean (touch of divinity).
As he comes from Kyonin (via Green Gold), multiple deity worship is not frowned upon, though his current primary patron is in fact Desna, but when his martial duties press hard he finds solace in Cayden Cailean's focus on strength and humor. As a Neutral Good character, he sides more with Desna's wanderlust as a religious experience, but he is maintained by his devotion to the ideals of Shelyn in no small part (who he's found himself revering in lieu of his lost love, the unattainable Queen of Kyonin). Since Desna and Cayden sometimes share interests a d domains of Travel and Luck (Shelyn also has Luck) (also, the romantic notion of them being lovers appeals to me as a player). I play him somewhat as a concept cleric with a collection of holy symbols. He uses his glaive-guisarme far more than he's apt to whip out the star knife, but I like that his Cavalier Order of the Star should be devoted to Desna- demanding of course he preach her teachings in his exile and protect fellow travelers. Killing Demons is a means to an end (hoping to defeat Tree Razer ultimately), none of the deities he pray to would mind that so much as he tries to protect and keep a mind to the truth and beauty of the world without being too restrictive.
The chronological faith progression would go like this...born into a mixed race family, fascinated by Cayden Cailean (and also blessed with strength of arms), as he came into his own as a Cavalier he found his Lady and Patron (the queen), but was converted to Shelyn, and in his un-official exile finds his path and solace in searching the sky for answers and traveling on. Able to share in the teachings of Desna from such a unique perspective and as a means of distraction and refocusing of his love energy away from his unattainable object of desire and toward the goals that may save her and his kingdom ultimately and allow him to serve her will while finding his own path.
Simplified Cayden->Shelyn->Desna. First he was young and hot headed, then his passions were quelled by love of beauty and the pain of such devotion, from which he was forced to turn away and seek an epic quest to prove his worth to his queen and find meaning in the world for himself.
If my DM is okay rubber stamping it, it suits me fine. Of the Golarion pantheon they seem the most flexible three. As time goes on his devotion to Desna, perhaps even his reverence to Cayden may strongly outweigh his for Shelyn.
Cleris and Inquisitors are specifically devoted to a single diety, and some Paladins are devoted to a single diety. Other divine casters are not required to be.
If a character is specifically devoted to a deity, then they should be devoted to that deity and while they may respect others, they wouldn't be devoted to another one. So a Cleric who multi-classed into an inquistor would worship the same god with both classes. Similarly, a cleric who multi-classed into a druid would remain devoted to a deity, even though druids don't require one.
And Oracle-Druid on the other hand could freely worship many gods or none at all. Although most likely they would worship the patron saint of unoptimal builds.
Andrew R wrote: Can a character have two divine casting classes with two different deities? This is more a setting question than a rules question. Provided you can tell me how sucking up to one doesn't inherently mean you're violating the other, I'd let it fly.
Oooh, dabbling in (thread-) necromancy! The frisson of the forbidden!
Anyway, as to the original question, I would agree that this is more to do with setting than rules as such. As Zhayne said, unless the two proposed patrons have incompatible ideals, I wouldn't have a problem with it; I imagine some characters might even come to think that both deities power both classes.
As to clerics' more focused devotions, I would call their domains the marker of which deity they are most devoted to, but if a setting includes polytheistic cultures I would rule that in-character they could still be considered clerics of X, Y, and Z all at once. In my own games, I go further and have a houserule that clerics from polytheistic cultures can choose their domains from any offered by the deities in their pantheon.
As time goes on his devotion to Desna, perhaps even his reverence to Cayden may more strongly outweigh his idolization of Shelyn.
To me, the pantheon is more relevant than the simple 1 deity rule, it isn't like it doesn't make sense to have one as a single focus, but polytheism is not unheard of...for a multi-classed half-elf character it almost works. I don't think my cleric is a cleric of Three Gods, he merely has reverence for all three, but a greater focus for Desna at this stage of his life. Unlikely that would shift, but if he sees something beautiful that humbles him or hears a baudy joke he may whisper or boast a word for Shelyn or Cayden Cailean.
Qunnessaa wrote: Oooh, dabbling in (thread-) necromancy! The frisson of the forbidden!
Anyway, as to the original question, I would agree that this is more to do with setting than rules as such. As Zhayne said, unless the two proposed patrons have incompatible ideals, I wouldn't have a problem with it; I imagine some characters might even come to think that both deities power both classes.
As to clerics' more focused devotions, I would call their domains the marker of which deity they are most devoted to, but if a setting includes polytheistic cultures I would rule that in-character they could still be considered clerics of X, Y, and Z all at once. In my own games, I go further and have a houserule that clerics from polytheistic cultures can choose their domains from any offered by the deities in their pantheon.
Zhayne wrote: Andrew R wrote: Can a character have two divine casting classes with two different deities? This is more a setting question than a rules question. Provided you can tell me how sucking up to one doesn't inherently mean you're violating the other, I'd let it fly. Indeed, it has come up before. For concept clerics, I almost prefer polytheism, particularly if there is any mismatching of domains (Protection/Defense, Destruction being a prime example for my negative energy cleric).
Considering Desna may well be or have been in bed with Cayden, I don't see why should would be bothered by one of her male clergy revering Cayden, as a male aspect of her Travel/Luck portfolios. Likewise, As the wandering goddess, perhaps focusing the idea of Beauty and enhancing further the luck domain with Shelyn isn't too far off crazy.
Again, setting. The Elves of Kyonin are polytheistic in their own right, my half-elf of Greengold just took that to another path living in a mixed culture city of Elven influence and fighting in her Majesty's army.
Qunnessaa wrote: Oooh, dabbling in (thread-) necromancy! The frisson of the forbidden!
Anyway, as to the original question, I would agree that this is more to do with setting than rules as such. As Zhayne said, unless the two proposed patrons have incompatible ideals, I wouldn't have a problem with it; I imagine some characters might even come to think that both deities power both classes.
As to clerics' more focused devotions, I would call their domains the marker of which deity they are most devoted to, but if a setting includes polytheistic cultures I would rule that in-character they could still be considered clerics of X, Y, and Z all at once. In my own games, I go further and have a houserule that clerics from polytheistic cultures can choose their domains from any offered by the deities in their pantheon.
Zhayne wrote: Andrew R wrote: Can a character have two divine casting classes with two different deities? This is more a setting question than a rules question. Provided you can tell me how sucking up to one doesn't inherently mean you're violating the other, I'd let it fly. Indeed, it has come up before. For concept clerics, I almost prefer polytheism, particularly if there is any mismatching of domains (Protection/Defense, Destruction being a prime example for my negative energy cleric).
Considering Desna may well be or have been in bed with Cayden, I don't see why should would be bothered by one of her male clergy revering Cayden, as a male aspect of her Travel/Luck portfolios. Likewise, As the wandering goddess, perhaps focusing the idea of Beauty and enhancing further the luck domain with Shelyn isn't too far off crazy.
Again, setting. The Elves of Kyonin are polytheistic in their own right, my half-elf of Greengold just took that to another path living in a mixed culture city of Elven influence and fighting in her Majesty's army. While I am not playing a Paladin, an Order of the Star Cavalier seems to fit these particular deities better, though Shelyn is known to have SOME paladins.
It does depend on the setting, but in Golarion or a similar setting I think it makes more sense if one of the classes involved doesn't require devotion to a deity. For example, oracles are granted power by divine forces but aren't required to worship or be devoted to them. It would make more sense for an oracle to have been empowered by one deity, and then subsequently decide to worship a second deity (for example as a paladin) than it would for a cleric of one deity to decide to serve another as an inquisitor.
Otherwise I think it makes more sense to have a character be simultaneously polytheistic in all their divine classes. So for example, you're not a Cleric of Desna and an Inquisitor of Cayden, you're a Cleric/Inquisitor of Desna and Cayden. Or in my current setting, you can be a Cleric of the Dwarven Pantheon or of a number of Saints (in which case you also revere the deity the saint serves). Mechanically in terms of domains or favoured weapon you'd have to work it out with the GM. A shared domain or domains makes most sense where there's overlap (like Desna and Cayden), and then just pick whichever weapon.
While I don't use deities in my settings and haven't for over 20 years, I see no reason a polytheistic pantheon wouldn't allow the worship of more than one deity.
Cleric can devote themselves to a concept rather than a god so it could very well be devoted to the pantheon as a concept, you'll have to determine the pantheon alignement and domain as the rule would have you.
Now for having devotion toward multiple god, personnaly I'd rule it as a no can do if I'm GMing. Indeed peoples pray to different gods depending on their purview and cleric are no exception, but while a cleric might pray to another god for certain things his devotion stay to his patron god.
So no double booking gods in my vision of this.
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