|
It will be tough. The game presupposes some healing to keep it going.
I would see if you couldn't get the 4th player to be a cleric. Offer him a bonus to XP or gold or an extra trait or feat if he seems reluctant.
Modules do have a lot of potions and wands in them. Most players save potions for the individual "oh crap, I am gonna die and the healer can't get to me moments."
As far as a DMnpc healbot, I recommend against it. Let your players learn how to play without a healer. If they like it and can work with it then great. Otherwise, one or more of them dies and maybe one becomes a cleric.
The monk should be able to use Wands of CLW, if needed give him a free feat that allows wand use as a move action and makes UMD a class skill for monks only and you should be golden without OPing the Monk at all.
Also try to persuade your Cavalier to change to a useful class or consider a Small cavalir on a Medium Mount. If not prepare to have outdoor adventures most of the time if you want to avoid the Cavalier feeling like a weak Fighter (because that is the Monks role).
The heal check to restore hit points only works once per day.
The party will have to stop and rest after practically every fight, because at first level you die after 2 hits at best and you don't want to be walking around with only one hit left.
It's hard but just need more magic items to compensate. UMD + wands of CLW, potions, 3.5 healers belt (CLW 3xday), ect...
Heck I just thought of a new magic item, grenades of positive energy, like cleric channel but something anyone can throw down. Not sure what would be a good cost but seems like a cool idea to me.
Maybe an intelligent magic item that can cast healing spells, so kinda like a DNPC healbot but not.
The heal check to restore hit points only works once per day.
The party will have to stop and rest after practically every fight, because at first level you die after 2 hits at best and you don't want to be walking around with only one hit left.
I'd say as a DM there's a lot you can do to compensate for the party having no healers, if you have the 3.5 MIC look up the belt of healing I think it was called. I can't remember exactly how it worked but basically it had charges on it that would cast cure light, moderate or severe wounds depending on how many charges you wanted to burn at a time (recharged daily), it was a good simple way to grant a bit of self healing to a healer-less party.
If you pass out a few CLW potions as treasure, a level 1 party should be able to get along for a while. That's why Pathfinder Society scenarios are usually swarming with healing potions.
|
|
Mm, yeah I might have to curb the "I can be any class I want" mentality just a bit; I'm sure two of my players don't mind switching it up. I didn't know the cavalier sucked quite so much.
What people recommending the CLW wand aren't understanding is that these guys are 1st level. 750G isn't something they'll be able to get with the starter gold. Unless I was really merciful, but eh, I play it by the book.
medium cavaliers "suck" because their mounts are hard to move around in dungeon type areas. Especially ones that require any climbing. As a DM you can fix that by creating a horselike creature that also has a climbing speed (how? magic or it has hands). Small cavilers have mounts that can be easily pulled up by rope.
|
750 isn't so horrid, except at the very beginning. Place a wand of CLW with 14 charges early. They are paying the cost for not having divine; as swarms are a tax on no arcane. It's manageable, but they will have to pay for the decision. 150 a person basically puts off the masterwork weapon a little bit.
|
No you don't.
I am running World's Largest Dungeon using Pathfinder rules. They are 80% through and do not have a cleric.
They have survived on potions and ,later on, wands.
If they survive a tough fight, give the baddies a few potions of CLW. Depending on your setting, let them buy some before they set off.
And hey, if some characters die or its TPW, your players' will have learned a valuable lesson.
If you are a new DM, don't run an NPC. You have enough to keep track of.
Here is the key. Let your players play what they want to play. If you force them or if the other players force another player to play a class he or she doesn't want to play, that person won't have as much fun and it may ruin your game or even cause you to lose a player.
My wife for the longest time seemed to always get stuck playing the healer. She got sick of it almost quit. You don't want that.
Either the party will learn how to survive, adapt in some way, or they'll die and you start over. Don't be afraid to be a little generous with the CLW potions early on.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
The monk should be able to use Wands of CLW, if needed give him a free feat that allows wand use as a move action and makes UMD a class skill for monks only and you should be golden without OPing the Monk at all.
MicMan, the monk is probably the least likely person in the party to try this. Use Magic Device is a CHA skill, and Charisma is, as one fellow put it, not among the Monk's top 5 priorities.
--+--
I speak from some experience. I just played a monk through 1st level in a party with a fighter, 2 barbarians barbarian, and 2 rangers as companions. The way adventures worked: we started out each scenario at full hit points and took damage throughout the adventure. By the time we reached the big fights at the end, we were all within a couple hit points from dropping unconscious.
|
|
The fastest and most effective way to determine if the party needs a healer is to see if any of them die in the 1st or 2nd fight. Don't feel the need to pull your punches too much, because ultimately this is a self correcting issue among parties. The first person to die is going to have that ipiphany "Maybe I should play a class with a cure spell!" and the rest is history. And I'm sure, if your party actually makes it to level 2 with as much difficulty that will be they will almost unaminously decide individually to dip in some class that has access to cure spells, even if it is for just one level. Considering there are SO many options for them to choose from, even many that do not sacrifice the all important Attack bonus for your martial classes, you will find that the party will eventually correct the lack of healing concern itself.
|
Wait and see what the fourth guy chooses. Even if he can't cast CLW right now as long as the spell is on his spell list he can use a wand of that spell for free with no UMD check.
If they don't get a healer then meh so what. I've been playing a campaign for over a year and we haven't had a healer yet. Our rogue uses healing wands with UMD or we drink potions. Sure I made a few changes to my character to ensure a higher AC and less likely hood of being hit, but other than focusing a tad more on defense and less on offense we didn't change anything.
|
|
Last time my party had no healer starting at level 1 at the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path.
They managed to reach until Xanesha at the second or third chapter if I remember correctly where they got a TPK moaning about too few resources to spent, note that 70-80% of their total wealth was spent on healing potions and wands of cure light wounds.
My suggestion, provide them with duct tapes of healing, each foot of duct tape heals 1 HP and the whole package should be near 50 feet of duct tape.
By the end of the battle they should be looking like duct tape mummies and after removing them they would look like hairless monkeys, or they could roll a healer for their group.
An experienced group, sure, there are always ways to deal with this sort of thing, but for a party that is mostly new to the game, this is going to be difficult.
The best solution is to get someone in the party to play an alchemist, bard, inquisitor, druid, cleric, oracle, witch or paladin. Then there isnt a problem in the first place. They dont have to be a 'healer' as a role, they just need access to the spells when they are important.
You can also mitigate the issue with treasure. If you find yourself worried about the party staying up there is no reason you cant put extra healing potions in the treasure.
Another option is variant wound systems. The Wounds and Vigor system means that most hp damage is recovered by a nights rest, reducing the need for healing magic.
I think if you are going to use a NPC then I would not make it a PC class. If anything give them an Adept that is averagely statted. That will give them some healing, but they also will have to make sure they are careful to keep him/her alive
There is the trait that gives you 900 starting gold. The wizard or monk can take it and instead of a wand of color spray a wand of CLW.
That is by the rules and starts them with 50 charges, if they won't even do that then I say let the chips fall where they may. Just make sure the adventure has some sort of deadline or you will end up with only one encounter per day so they can heal through rest.
EDIT: Also I forgot about Infernal Healing it is a wizard healing spell out of the Inner Sea World Guide. So Yeah a wand of that would work better no UMD check and always out of combat heals for 10.
|
To answer your first question, no.
To answer your second question, absolutely not, under any circumstances, heck no!
When I was a new DM I had a party that had no healer, it was interesting to watch the party adapt to that fact and work around it. If you throw them healing or place a DMPC in the game you are limiting your players creativity and saying that they aren't smart enough to figure it out on their own.
Just play the game without a healer, let the party realize that they are lacking, watch the spellcaster take levels of cleric and then mystic thuerge, or the monk max out heal and UMD. The point is it's the parties responsibility to deal with this, not the DMs, now you can help out by throwing on a wand or two of cure light wounds on a few bad guys, but do not stifle the parties creativity by preemptively removing this aspect when they deliberately chose to put themselves in the situation.
|
|
Mm, yeah I might have to curb the "I can be any class I want" mentality just a bit;
ARGGH no, no you don't! a party without a healer can play DnD just fine!
I'm sure two of my players don't mind switching it up. I didn't know the cavalier sucked quite so much.
The Cavalier does not suck, he can be at a disadvantage if you run a lot of dungeon adventures, but he does not require his horse and if you let him know he might not always have his mount he can choose his feats and order to make himself better off the horse. Don't let one or two people make you think that the class doesn't work because it is a perfectly good class.
What people recommending the CLW wand aren't understanding is that these guys are 1st level. 750G isn't something they'll be able to get with the starter gold. Unless I was really merciful, but eh, I play it by the book.
no but cure light wounds potions are 50gp, healer's kits have 5 uses when used to treat injuries, and if you are really worried about it, houserule out the limit 1 per day and just keep the 1 hour treatment time, heck in my games, for every 5 by which you beat the DC 25 skill check you heal an additional 1d4 hp. It doesn't step on magical healing's toes because it doesn't keep pace, and the hour treatment time means that players still prefer standard magical healing. then have the occasional bad guy with a wand that only has 12 uses left on it. A group without healing can work just fine and there is nothing wrong with your groups current selection as you have a melee bruiser in the cavalier, a skill monkey in the monk, and an arcane caster. I've run 3 player games with a similar party, just sub the cavalier with a ranger, and the wizard with a sorcerer. And you still have a fourth player who's a wild card, Your group will be just fine.
|
|
As do I, but I imagine we are disagreeing with different parts. :)It's both a party without healing and with multiple suboptimal classes, so you will need to keep it toned down a bit, but they can manage fine. NPC healbots aren't fun to have around.I disagree with this statement.
I edited out the bit I agree with.
|
|
No you don't.
I am running World's Largest Dungeon using Pathfinder rules. They are 80% through and do not have a cleric.
They have survived on potions and ,later on, wands.
If they survive a tough fight, give the baddies a few potions of CLW. Depending on your setting, let them buy some before they set off.
And hey, if some characters die or its TPW, your players' will have learned a valuable lesson.
If you are a new DM, don't run an NPC. You have enough to keep track of.
Here is the key. Let your players play what they want to play. If you force them or if the other players force another player to play a class he or she doesn't want to play, that person won't have as much fun and it may ruin your game or even cause you to lose a player.
My wife for the longest time seemed to always get stuck playing the healer. She got sick of it almost quit. You don't want that.
Either the party will learn how to survive, adapt in some way, or they'll die and you start over. Don't be afraid to be a little generous with the CLW potions early on.
+10000000000000
Mm, yeah I might have to curb the "I can be any class I want" mentality just a bit; I'm sure two of my players don't mind switching it up. I didn't know the cavalier sucked quite so much.
What people recommending the CLW wand aren't understanding is that these guys are 1st level. 750G isn't something they'll be able to get with the starter gold. Unless I was really merciful, but eh, I play it by the book.
If one of them has UMD, or someone who gets CLW later have them find a used CLW wand early on (ranger, paladin for example can still use it from 1st level on). Maybe just 10 or 15 charges left on it, so they can't go crazy with it, but enough so they survive their first adventure.
The wizard can identify it with spellcraft, and just tell him then it only got X uses left.After that, they hopefully should have enough money to buy a fully functional wand. Might have to pool their loot for it of course, but that shouldn't be a problem once they noticed how much they need it.
I don't think a healbot is a good idea, but if you want to do that ebcause there seems no other option, talk with them how they feel about it.
Have the guy cast some spells, not just heals, shoot his crossbow, but generally let the players come up with the plans and just follow. But as others have already said its maybe the worst idea.
|
|
And I do mean any; I think all they'll be able manage right then might be long-term care for the heal check.
I ask because I'm a fairly new GM running some fairly new players through a module, and right now the party is shaping up to be healer-less. So far we have a cavalier, wizard, and a monk. Fourth is undecided, but for the sake of argument let's say she goes something else that can't heal either. I know the board's a big believer in one 4-man group being able to do something any other 4-man group can do, if needing to modify their methods a bit. Could a party with no healing magic cut it?
Second question: if the the answer to the former paragraph is "nay", is it a good idea to have a healbot DM NPC for this kind of thing? If it is, what should he/she be like roleplay wise? Obviously they don't want another character taking any spotlight; would that make him/her some variant of effectively mute yet clingy adventurer?
Given what is already in play, the odds are pretty good they will take something that has some access to healing, if only because most of the other slots are filled.
Even if they take a rogue, UMD is a class feature.
Our last 3.5 game had neither a healer nor any form of tank. Most of the players were new. We did fine.
That said, we did have an experienced DM.
My advice to you, as an inexperienced DM, is don't be afraid to say "I messed up, let's start that again.". Don't forget, you're learning, too.
Roll your dice out of sight. Fudge when needed.
Don't be afraid of knocking them unconscious.
Use the rule of: the bad guys have to confirm crits, the good guys don't.
Make healing potions readily available.
You could even give one character an heirloom Wand of CLW; 20 or so charges and, for this wand only, the owner doesn't have to make UMD checks. (It's been in the family for years; he/she has been taught the activation phrase.)
Use fate/hero points.
KILL PARTY. REPLACE WITH ALL-CLERIC PARTY.
|
|
Out of the 20 base Classes.
8 Can use a wand with out a umd check.
6 Can cast cure light wound at level 1.
So there are allot of ways to cure wounds. Just need to find a way to do it.
Im on the other end of the problem. Group I'm running is combat bard, Oracle of Battle, Paladin, Ranger, and Rogue. All but the rogue use a wand or cast cure spells in the group. And even the Rogue has enough umd now to use the wands.
KILL PARTY. REPLACE WITH ALL-CLERIC PARTY.
Hell, if it worked on Chaos...
I didn't know the cavalier sucked quite so much.
It doesn't.
As long as you take advantage of its strengths like buffing itself and the party, and better skills. You don't even need the mount. Granted, the small cavalier works best and you have to be more group oriented, but as long as you chose a usefull order, like Dragon, and steer clear of the mount based ones like Sword, youre still very capable.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
- have a potion seller in the village
- drop a wand of cure moderate wounds with 30 charges in the loot instead of that +1 heavy mace
- allow them to hire some low level npcs to join them, having a small retinue of followers/hirelings to fall back to when things get tough, they probably will not want to put themselves in danger.
There might be a healer adept, a guide, a guard and a porter, the pcs employer might assign them to the party to give them some rudimentary assistance. It can also give some nice story hooks, for example :
Rishi, human female, adept lvl 1
- healer, sometime companion/prostitute, scroll crafter, willing to do anything to make a decent living she takes pride in all her skills but has a dangerous temper when insulted
Jacob, human male, warrior lvl 2
- middle aged veteran soldier/squire, has a limp and likes to give well meant advice and history lessons, a skilled warrior with a body that is slowly failing he is not willing to put down his sword just yet
Nodwick, human male, commoner 1
- strong and stocky human, sometimes mistaken for a dwarf, he enjoys exploring the world, drinking and flirting with women, he fathered many children in many towns with many women
Jason, half-elf male, expert 2
- Guide, tracker, cartographer and linguist, an introverted, quiet man, he is well learned and possesses a powerful analytical mind Jason has a dark past as a devil worshipper but changed his ways and is now a devout worshipper of more benevolent gods
these camp followers will charge normally for their services possibly with a small discount for their regulars, the pcs are a steady source of income for them
You shouldn't be concerned, but they should be