Of the three big D20 sword and sorcery campaign settings, which do you guys think is the best? I personally am partial to Eberron, because it's very weird and inventive, and I like that. Steampunk and halflings riding dinosaurs in my medieval fantasy? Sure. Why not. I'm not saying Golarion and Forgotten Realms are bad, but they just don't have Eberron's charm.
Well first off none are S&S settings. All three are high magic, Eberron and FR are higher magic then Golarion, which is more pulp inspired. FR and Golarion are more traditional , which Eberron is more of a pulp/high magic mix. Of the tree Golarion is the most S&S inspired with the lest amount of magic.
As to which one is best, well that is up to taste. I like all three and play all three. To Me FR is always my fav published setting, it just calls to me. But sometimes Eberron scratchs an ich for me. Golarion is also a great setting. Which I run and play as well.
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I'm a longtime fan of Eberron, never cared for FR. Well, I shouldn't say never. I liked the original 2nd edition 'grey box', but got burnt out on it pretty quickly.
Golarion is a masterpiece, IMO. You can actually fit just about any flavor setting into it somewhere. Science, tech, high magic of ancient civilizations. It doesn't do Magepunk 'quite' as well as Eberron, which is entirely dedicated to it, after all. But, you can dabble in it somewhat.
Eh. My thinking is if it's got swords and spellcasters, it's swords and sorcery.
I like Magepunk. I like it a lot. That's why to me, Eberron will always be the best. 3.5 Eberron, because I never bought into 4E. I only have money to dump into one system, and I chose Pathfinder for the OGL.
The Pathfinder (Chronicles) Campaign Setting is the best of the bunch. (Yeah, I'm one of those old-timers who remembers that it used to be the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting. Not that it was long ago. But I think I'll make an early start being an insufferable know-it-all this time ;-)). It's not just the setting itself - which is superb - but also much of the philosophy behind it. Paizo won't screw up the setting in major ways for "political reasons". In fact, the big catastrophes have all happened before the official start of the campaign. However, there are more potential catastrophes built into the setting, so if a GM needs one, he can have his pick!
Forgotten Realms go second. However, I have to qualify that: By Forgotten Realms I mean everything written for it before they apparently decided to hire some guys who were fired from soap operas for too ridiculous screenplays to write their Realmslore from now on. So when I say FR is 2nd place, I mean the 3e era and before FR. The 4e era FR are the worst. They rate after something a elementary school dropout wrote in a drunken stupor in an intentional attempt to create something that will make brains vomit. Not that I harbour any resentment or anything, you understand.
From the three you mentioned, Eberron goes last. And I freely admit that is mostly on first impressions. It seemed like the "EXTREME!!!!" setting. It reminded me of "Corn Nuts - Corn gone WRONG!" Mostly it also had the bad luck that at the time they did it, I already had a setting. I don't need that many. PF had the luck of being introduced right at the time wotc decided to fire their old fans.
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If you cut open Golarion, it bleeds Adventures. Eberron bleeds flashy art and Dungeonpunk trinkets. Forgotten realms bleeds famous novelized NPCs.
Each has their own time and place.
You (a general "you") can say that Golarion is low-magic, but I'm running a party through the Carrion Crown AP, and even just hitting third level, the party has amassed quite a bit of loot and magical gewgaws.
Maybe I don't understand "low magic."
Anyway, Golarion kicks ass. I liked the original Forgotten Realms when it first got started, but as the years went on I cared for it less and less. I read the first Eberron campaign book and enjoyed it but never delved any further. It seemed pretty cool.
Greyhawk got a resurgence under Third Edition, and I've loved that world since Saga of Old City. My personal favorite Third Edition world was White Wolf's The Scarred Lands which I prefer just a teensy little bit more than Golarion.
+1 for Golarion. Especially agree with Evil Lincoln. It just... caters itself so well to running games in.
I tried to run an Ebberon game before, and despite my love of the setting... There didnt seem to be any plot threads to grab at, or any fantastic APs to run. It just seemed an incoherant mess connected by trains.
I've only experienced FR through numerous RPGs, and... well, I'm not coloured particularly impressed.
I've never played Eberron, so I can't really make a call there. When I'm not playing my homebrew, it's Golarion. Prior to Pathfinder, I'd take Sword & Sorcery's Scarred Lands over FR any day.
Please move this to Gamer Life, at least.
It's on-topic, and I think quite interesting and relevant.
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I really don't like any of them, as-is. I have never carred for Forgotten Realms without some major changes very similar to what they did with it early in 4th Ed, (whipping away much of the assumed stuff and major characters, especially Mystra).
Personally, my favorate settings for S&S are really split between DragonLance and Ravenloft. I love some of the aspects of Dark Sun, but certain things about it also I really don't. It's a little too much atypical, for both good and bad.
In my opinion, DragonLance is the only setting that has ever given a suitable reason for requiring all Divine Characters to need a deity. Golarion fails, Forgotten Realms super-fails, but DragonLance doesn't, and at the same time offers ways around that. It also really examins faith/religion in a very mature and meaningful way, and makes it imortant mechanically and thematically. Would be the perfect setting if it had been handled a little better in early 3E/WotC hands, I think. Not a blamewar at WotC, just too much focus on trying to make FR the gold standard hurt other settings a lot.
For Golarion and Eberron, there are specific things I do like, and a lot of things I completely ignor.
In Eberron, I love what they did with faith and religion, in regards to Divine Magic, but I really do not care for either the dinosaur/Halflings or the abundence of technology or low magic. At the same time, I do like a lot of the unknown elements, and in a sense a lot of the twists they put on so many basic D&D things, (drow).
For both Eberron and Golarion, some of the aspects I do like (and also at sometimes do hate) is the sense of exploration that <earlier> products implied. The sense of ancient and lost mysteries, (though I wish they where much less Arcane-trensic and maybe more Divine). Riddleport is a great example, but also the concepts of the mystery of the origin of humanity and Golarion, the Starstone, and things like that.
I really don't like the PathFinder Society as is, beyond the most simplistic out-of-character reason to get everyone together. It's way to neutral for my liking, and really smacks of someone's personal desire to have a "I'm LN <but actually I just do whatever I want> with pretence at being heroic or important".
I don't like that Golarion (and Eberron to a point) really do not advance.
Big 3? Um Greyhawk.
To be blunt Greyhawk hasn't been "big" in over 15 years. If you didn't play RPGA pick up those tiny books or have some one show it to you. Then you have never even heard of it. It was more or less an ignored setting since 3e came out.
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Cimmarea is my favorite followed by Dark Sun.
Cimmeria (or more properly, the Hyborian Age) is disqualified for being an actual sword-and-sorcery setting.
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For playing D&D/PF
Necro/Frog God world
Golarion
Greyhawk
any other fantasy campaign world
not even bothering with a campaign world
any other non-fantasy campaign world
not playing at all
a merciful death
Forgotten Realms (ANY edition)
:( Thats not very nice.
If you cut open Golarion, it bleeds Adventures. Eberron bleeds flashy art and Dungeonpunk trinkets. Forgotten realms bleeds famous novelized NPCs.
Each has their own time and place.
Personally Forgotten Realms is my preference. And not because of novelized NPCs, but because its one of very few settings where I dont have to make up the details of the setting, I can grab the book, and its all there for me. The work has already been done.
I cant do that nearly as well with Golarion, or Eberron.
With Forgotten Realms I can say "I want to play a big city fantasy game" and break out either the 2e or 3e waterdeep book. Everything I need is right there, and I dont have to make it up.
Its the only setting I can say that I've seen be run in a standardized manner, without homebrewing the chunks of the setting that aren't there. There's so much there, that you generally only have to make up the stuff specific to your story.
Its the setting where I as the GM can look it up, instead of making it up. Its not a setting that works well for Novice or Intro GMs if they have any players that will be upset if they fudge the details (and odds are if its an FR player, they're interested in playing a game thats true to the setting instead of something the GM homebrewed.) But I think the games you get out of that sort of consistency bring a sort of genuineness and consistency you cant get elsewhere.
I'll play in other settings, but I think I would play (pre4e) forgotten realms before any of them, hands down. Its got a world so detailed you can run any sort of campaign in it, and the GM isnt just making stuff up or filling in empty areas.
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Cimmeria (or more properly, the Hyborian Age) is disqualified for being an actual sword-and-sorcery setting.
Hyborea is pretty F****ng awesome though. I have to admit. Damn near impossible to run it with the pathfinder rules though. Takes lots of houserules to do it well, or yaknow, the Conan RPG.
I love me some sword and sorcery.
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For playing D&D/PF
Necro/Frog God world
Golarion
Greyhawk
any other fantasy campaign world
not even bothering with a campaign world
any other non-fantasy campaign world
not playing at all
a merciful death
Forgotten Realms (ANY edition)
FR is fine. The generic Necro world is good. I also really like what the folks over at Open Design have done with the Midgard setting.
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Personally Forgotten Realms is my preference. And not because of novelized NPCs, but because its one of very few settings where I dont have to make up the details of the setting, I can grab the book, and its all there for me. The work has already been done.
I cant do that nearly as well with Golarion, or Eberron.
I realize now that my comment came out somewhat more negatively than I intended.
I love Forgotten Realms. And I like playing in it because it bleeds novelized NPCs. I can see how someone might thing I was being pejorative with that, but your description above describes exactly what I really meant: FR (and certainly dragonlance too) has a strong feeling of canon, and sometimes that is what you want. I don't like to think of canon as a restriction on players, but rather a tool to leverage. Everyone knows who these NPCs are, so having them in your game can be awesome, if done correctly.
As a personal example, one of my favorite PC characters is a renegade Thayan evoker arms-dealer. A Red Wizard. Everyone here knows what that means. People who have never rolled a d20 in their life know what that means (a lot of people read those books...) and they know because it is the realms. I wouldn't get nearly the recognition for being a Thassilonian evoker.
I hope that clarifies my position. I could mount a similar case for the virtues of Eberron. Every setting has its time and place.
Danke shön.
Warforged. Conversation de fin.
Older Forgotten Realms (pre 3rd ed) is good. Greyhawk is good, but then that is the setting I started with back in the 1st ed days. Blackmoor is also a good setting. Golarion is good, even with the complications of 3.5/PRPG mechanics.
I guess I am too old school for this thread. lol
Greyhawk got a resurgence under Third Edition, and I've loved that world since Saga of Old City.
In fact, I love it so much, I dug out my Gord the Rogue books.
It's funny to read a TSR novel that has the word "s&$+eater" on the first page, and, a couple of pages later, has the protagonist worried about getting sodomized!
It would have to be Golarion for the admittedly personal reason that it is the one that has not p@#$%d me off.
Yeah, Greyhawk and Blackmoor are great too. I don't think anybody who likes those is too old. I think maybe the OP is too young. After all, he/she did ask for opinions, then tried to spank somebody for theirs. Not exactly the mark of grey whiskers and wisdom.
I tease. :P
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I played Greyhawk before the RPGA existed.Big 3? Um Greyhawk.To be blunt Greyhawk hasn't been "big" in over 15 years. If you didn't play RPGA pick up those tiny books or have some one show it to you. Then you have never even heard of it. It was more or less an ignored setting since 3e came out.
I stopped playing D&D in 1987...moving on to more rules-heavy games, with more detailed /deadly combat, etc (Rolemaster,Chaosium, etc...).
So, my ref is as a 1st Ed player, and Greyhawk stands as the setting that does it for me.Now, Golarion actually gives me that same fuzzy feeling that Greyhawk did, way back when I was 11-17, and slinging spells as an Elf F/M-U.
-Uriel
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My players first cut their teeth on Pathfinder fighting g Golarion Goblins or River Kingdoms bandits. To them the fuzzy nostalgia setting is and always will be Golarion.
I like both Golarion (I like pulp fantasy with a kitchen sink mentality) and Eberron (I like detective stories and Golems). Forgotten Realms felt too detailed, like my stories would always be in the margins and peripheries of the constantly evolving canon. Not a knock against FR, just my impression.
So Golarion or Eberron for me. Unless I'm in a homebrew mood.
I like all three campaign settings for their own unique traits, but I think that Golarion wins this time. Eberron is a close second if only because of me liking the fact that you could play a "monster" like a goblinoid or kobold and not be killed on sight as "XP bait" (though this fact applies in some places on Golarion too, like in Absalom and Kaer Maga) and both worlds seem built well enough when it comes to the past of the world (though Golarion does it's job better on that one for the most part)
When it comes to Forgotten Realms, I actually like reading into the lore of the setting (especially the Time of Troubles, which was a 2nd edition thing if I recall right), but I usually disregard and/or ignore the Drizzt and Elminster stuff completely. I ain't letting those two hog the spotlight from the real heroes of the game (the player characters), and I might even be an implusive enough DM to actually retcon stuff that I don't like from the novels. Nobody tells me how to make the story when I am the DM, after all.
What saddens me a little bit is the fact that the DM who runs 3.5e and Pathfinder usually prefers homebrew campaigns. Then again, some of his ideas are pretty awesome in their own right. I also forgot to mention that Greyhawk is underappreciated, and needs more love. Same applies to Planescape despite how crazy it could get at times.
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My thoughts on some of the oldest and most popular campaign settings:
Greyhawk - One of my favorites, and easily the best that TSR/WotC ever had a hand in. Is it a bit generic? Perhaps, but that's largely because it mapped out what a campaign setting should be. Even with the setting itself being outright ignored in 4E (which is only marginally worse than it suffered through in 3E or late 2E), it's influence on the system is omnipresent, from Vecna to Tharizdun to adventures that are sequels/reimaginings of Greyhawk staples.
Dragonlance - I like the setting and the world. The adventures themselves tended to be on-rails, though.
Forgotten Realms - It's like someone read my mind about how NOT to make a campaign setting. Seemingly thousands of epic level NPC wizards, lead by the grand king of the Mary Sues, Elminster. Overly detailed campaign world that seems like it's designed to incite arguments between fanboy players and a GM who dares to actually change things. There's also the fact that, even before the 4E changes, it seemed to be blow up rather frequently. Becoming the goddess of magic seems to be a death sentence.
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My players first cut their teeth on Pathfinder fighting g Golarion Goblins or River Kingdoms bandits. To them the fuzzy nostalgia setting is and always will be Golarion.
I like both Golarion (I like pulp fantasy with a kitchen sink mentality) and Eberron (I like detective stories and Golems). Forgotten Realms felt too detailed, like my stories would always be in the margins and peripheries of the constantly evolving canon. Not a knock against FR, just my impression.
So Golarion or Eberron for me. Unless I'm in a homebrew mood.
That has always been my feeling on FR. I liked it for a long time, but after a bit it was too detailed, covered too much and felt like it was all crammed in there. Plus, it did not seem to matter how well you did, you were never the heroes of your own story, just hanging around in this world where the "other heroes" abound.
Anyone who has ever played with me knows that I have an intense antipathy towards the Forgotten Realms. I only started playing at the very beginning of 3.0, so maybe the AD&D incarnation of the Realms was cooler, but if it was it certainly didn't age well after the 80's.
That said, my personal setting where I run most campaigns that I DM has a bevvy of high-level and epic NPCs to interact with as well as a n intricate and detailed history, so go figure.
I have a soft spot in my heart for Eberron since that was the setting in which I played one of the longest and most enjoyable campaigns I have ever participated in.
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Anyone who has ever played with me knows that I have an intense antipathy towards the Forgotten Realms. I only started playing at the very beginning of 3.0, so maybe the AD&D incarnation of the Realms was cooler, but if it was it certainly didn't age well after the 80's.
That said, my personal setting where I run most campaigns that I DM has a bevvy of high-level and epic NPCs to interact with as well as a n intricate and detailed history, so go figure.
Are you implying that you hate FR because of the many high-level and epic NPCs, and because of its intricate and detailed history? Or do you hate it for other reasons?
Anyway, I'll chime in with my agreement with Crimson Jester, Beckett, and Uriel393. If you regard Golarion, Forgotten Realms and Eberron and "the three big D20 sword and sorcery campaign settings", you need to add Greyhawk to that list. And based on this thread, I feel pretty safe in saying that Doodlebug Anklebiter, Kthulhu, Darkwing Duck, Bruunwald, DM_aka_Dudemeister, Enevhar Aldarion, and Icyshadow would agree too.
Big 3? Um Greyhawk.To be blunt Greyhawk hasn't been "big" in over 15 years. If you didn't play RPGA pick up those tiny books or have some one show it to you. Then you have never even heard of it. It was more or less an ignored setting since 3e came out.
I wouldn't say that. RPGA living campaigns may be a minority of campaigns out there in total, but the Living Greyhawk campaign was still pretty big and had a quite a few resources devoted to it.
Anyone who has ever played with me knows that I have an intense antipathy towards the Forgotten Realms. I only started playing at the very beginning of 3.0, so maybe the AD&D incarnation of the Realms was cooler, but if it was it certainly didn't age well after the 80's.
That said, my personal setting where I run most campaigns that I DM has a bevvy of high-level and epic NPCs to interact with as well as a n intricate and detailed history, so go figure.
Are you implying that you hate FR because of the many high-level and epic NPCs, and because of its intricate and detailed history? Or do you hate it for other reasons?
I'm saying that I am not quite sure why I hate it.
This is more of a "what I like and why" than an edition war thread. Edition wars are more about COMPARING things. =P
The best setting is Planescape.
But of the three to choose from, I've never played in Golarion beyond PbPs that keep fading to death, and I've only played in one Eberron game, and I've played a butt-ton of FR. And I do love FR quite a lot (pre 4th Ed). But I don't think I've got a fair sample to compare to.
For me, FR - by leaps and bounds. (Well, pre-4e FR, of course.)
I convert all (well, most) of Paizo's APs to fit with FR (which is pretty darn easy - so far). I appreciate Golarion in its design philosophy, as it can handle many types of genres within one setting (which is what FR does as well).
Aw man, we can vote Planescape?!
I'm changing my vote.
PS has FR and Greyhawk and a few others just built in there. Heck, even SpellJammer, if you want it.
In all seriousness, Planescape is about as sword-and-sorcery as Eberron ( that is to say not) but it paved the way for the high-concept, full-color art smorgasbords we get from Paizo today. Sword-and-Myth maybe?
While we're reminiscing outside of the thread's premise, some of the best gaming I ever had was in the Neverwinter Sigil persistent world. THey had some really classy GMs there who knew how to RP, knew how to use the tech, and knew how to give players what they want.
Man, I've half a mind to dig up my long-lost NWN install discs and see if those boys are still kicking it. Anyone still have a functional NWN want to check for me?
Of the three big D20 sword and sorcery campaign settings, which do you guys think is the best? I personally am partial to Eberron, because it's very weird and inventive, and I like that. Steampunk and halflings riding dinosaurs in my medieval fantasy? Sure. Why not. I'm not saying Golarion and Forgotten Realms are bad, but they just don't have Eberron's charm.By what criteria do you decide best? The setting you use has no impact on the rules you run. Do you decide that you like one because you're a Jacobs fan, but hate Ed Greenwood?
The settings are different. And one may appeal more or less to someone because of personal taste.
That's what it comes down to, there is no objective standard for considering one "better" than the other. Of the three, the Realms probably has had more authors involved with it, but it's also been around far longer than the other two, and for a long time, it was the dominant setting in D20 based play.
You like Eberron? That's fine, so do I. But there's no need to start a Setting War to prove it. Weren't the Edition Wars silly enough?
I'm not asking for a setting war, I'm asking for subjective opinions on which settings people like best. I even said in the OP that I do not think Golarion and Forgotten Realms are bad, but I do think Eberron has more charm. This doesn't appear to be turning into a setting war, either.
It would have to be Golarion for the admittedly personal reason that it is the one that has not p@#$%d me off.
Yeah, Greyhawk and Blackmoor are great too. I don't think anybody who likes those is too old. I think maybe the OP is too young. After all, he/she did ask for opinions, then tried to spank somebody for theirs. Not exactly the mark of grey whiskers and wisdom.
I tease. :P
When did I bash somebody for an opinion?
I just haven't been playing long enough to be familiar with anything other than the three I listed. That's why they are the only ones mentioned in the OP. If you want to list other stuff, go ahead. I won't tell you no to. Not my place.