hi! Is it possible to declare a smite evil (swift action) between the attacks of a full attack action?
The corebook says that you can do a swift action, every time you could do a free action (but only 1 per turn).
In a full attack action you are allowed a 5ft step before, between or after your full attack, so i can only wonder.
Does anyone know? thanks!
Also, is it possible to have more than 1 enemy declared with smite evil? I thought you could =0.
i.e.:
round 1: declare smite evil to monster 1
round 2: declare smite evil on monster 2 (monster 1 still alive)
Thanks!
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
hi! Is it possible to declare a smite evil (swift action) between the attacks of a full attack action?
The corebook says that you can do a swift action, every time you could do a free action (but only 1 per turn).
In a full attack action you are allowed a 5ft step before, between or after your full attack, so i can only wonder.
Does anyone know? thanks!
Well, the combat chapter says you can take a swift action in the same turn you take a full-round action, but doesn't say one way or the other about taking it between attacks. Barring anyone presenting clear text, I'd make the call that you could do it, because I can't imagine it being a problem to do so.
Also, is it possible to have more than 1 enemy declared with smite evil? I thought you could =0.
i.e.:
round 1: declare smite evil to monster 1
round 2: declare smite evil on monster 2 (monster 1 still alive)Thanks!
I see nothing in the description saying you can't.
thanks :D Jiggy
For a moment I thought I wouldn't be able to "interrupt" my own full round action with another action (the swift) and in some particular cases like the magus they aren't allowed to. However I couldn't find a ruling that didn't allow me to in the corebook.
About smite evil I thought I would be able (unlike a Knight's challenge or whatnot) but my DM told me I couldn't (?). My guess is that he got confused and thought that in Smite Evil there's a description where I can only smite one monster at a time. But i wanted to make sure =0, thank you!
hi! Is it possible to declare a smite evil (swift action) between the attacks of a full attack action?
The corebook says that you can do a swift action, every time you could do a free action (but only 1 per turn).
In a full attack action you are allowed a 5ft step before, between or after your full attack, so i can only wonder.
Does anyone know? thanks!Also, is it possible to have more than 1 enemy declared with smite evil? I thought you could =0.
i.e.:
round 1: declare smite evil to monster 1
round 2: declare smite evil on monster 2 (monster 1 still alive)Thanks!
I think it would be fine as long as you have more than one use of smite evil. It says smite evil X/Day. If you are surrounded by four mummies and have 4 smites per day, I see no reason why you could not use them all on each enemy.
I am not of the school that it is smart to do so, it is probably better to concentrate attacks on one damage dealer first.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think it would be fine as long as you have more than one use of smite evil. It says smite evil X/Day. If you are surrounded by four mummies and have 4 smites per day, I see no reason why you could not use them all on each enemy.I am not of the school that it is smart to do so, it is probably better to concentrate attacks on one damage dealer first.
"In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite."
So if the paladin is surrounded by several evil enemies and has multiple smite evil (and he think he will not need them later) it is not a bad idea to use his swift action to start smite evil against the other targets, even if it is not attacking them.
He would still get a AC increase at little cost.
AFAIK you can't stop one action to start another and then continue the first action. I see nothing making swift actions an exception to that. Now I don't think it would break the game to do so, in this case though, but I also don't see why you can't just declare the smite before you start the full attack. Attacking an enemy that is not the subject of smite does not end smite. You just don't get the bonuses from it except for when you go after the target of the smite.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I also don't see why you can't just declare the smite before you start the full attack. Attacking an enemy that is not the subject of smite does not end smite. You just don't get the bonuses from it except for when you go after the target of the smite.
If you have a paladin with a complex enough set of full-attack options, building off things like cleaves, cleaving finish, improved shield bashes and so on, a paladin might well not be sure when he begins his attack what targets will still be around partway in when his initial smite target finally dies.
Rare, but such cases could happen.
|
|
AFAIK you can't stop one action to start another and then continue the first action. I see nothing making swift actions an exception to that. Now I don't think it would break the game to do so, in this case though, but I also don't see why you can't just declare the smite before you start the full attack. Attacking an enemy that is not the subject of smite does not end smite. You just don't get the bonuses
from it except for when you go after the target of the smite.
Rule quote please.
I see several things that are the exact opposite of what you are saying.
You can explicitly do your 5' move between iterative attacks.
You can switch the grip of a 2 handed weapon so that you can free a hand and use a spiked gauntlet.
You can draw a arrow or a dagger.
You can switch between different combat maneuvers.
So, as a minimum, you can make free actions and no actions.
The only example of a swift action in the Action in combat table is a quickened spell.
My gut reaction would be that it is not allowed to cast a quickened spell in the middle of a full attack, my thinking reaction is "Why not?".
As far as I can see there is no rule saying that it is not possible.
Seeing how the magus work I would even say that it is something that is intended.
So, to sum it up, I don't see any reason why it would not be possible to take a swift action in the middle of a full attack.
About "Why you would use your smite evil in the middle of the attack and not at the start?", it is possible that the OP want to gauge how hard is the opposition first and, if they don't appear to be heavily damaged by the first hit, he want to know if he will be still capable to activate his power before attacking again.
AFAIK you can't stop one action to start another and then continue the first action. I see nothing making swift actions an exception to that. Now I don't think it would break the game to do so, in this case though, but I also don't see why you can't just declare the smite before you start the full attack. Attacking an enemy that is not the subject of smite does not end smite. You just don't get the bonuses
from it except for when you go after the target of the smite.Rule quote please.
I see several things that are the exact opposite of what you are saying.
You can explicitly do your 5' move between iterative attacks.
You can switch the grip of a 2 handed weapon so that you can free a hand and use a spiked gauntlet.
You can draw a arrow or a dagger.
You can switch between different combat maneuvers.So, as a minimum, you can make free actions and no actions.
The only example of a swift action in the Action in combat table is a quickened spell.
My gut reaction would be that it is not allowed to cast a quickened spell in the middle of a full attack, my thinking reaction is "Why not?".
As far as I can see there is no rule saying that it is not possible.
Seeing how the magus work I would even say that it is something that is intended.So, to sum it up, I don't see any reason why it would not be possible to take a swift action in the middle of a full attack.
About "Why you would use your smite evil in the middle of the attack.
and not at the start?", it is possible that the OP want to gauge how hard is the opposition first and, if they don't appear to be heavily damaged by the first hit, he want to know if he will be still capable to activate his power before attacking again.
Darn you. Stop disagreeing with me. :)
A five foot step is not an action.
Changing your grip is not an action. It can be classified as a free action, but officially it is not classified.
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
No other action has that clause, not even swift actions. Well maybe swift actions can, but they also have supporting verbage. Swift actions are out though.
Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
So we have 2 actions that can, but the rest can not by the rules. Would I allow the smite as an exception? Most likely, yes, but I don't know if I would allow it with all swift actions. I would have to look over the books to see what other swift actions exist.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
I will point out that "one or more".
Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
And here I point out the one action.
To me it seem clear that the line in the free action description is there to explicitly allow someone to reload and fire a bow several times, but nowhere in the rules I see something saying "you can't take a swift action."
BTW, full quote:
Swift Actions
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions.
In that regard, a swift action is like a free action.
You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take.
You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.
I think I have out trumped you.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
I will point out that "one or more".
Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
And here I point out the one action.
To me it seem clear that the line in the free action description is there to explicitly allow someone to reload and fire a bow several times, but nowhere in the rules I see something saying "you can't take a swift action."
BTW, full quote:
Swift Actions
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions.
In that regard, a swift action is like a free action.
You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take.
You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.I think I have out trumped you.
That also does not disagree with the quote in the RAW about full-round actions:
Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions and swift actions (see below). See Table: Actions in Combat for a list of full-round actions.
Happler second sentence of the bold part of that quote specifically includes free actions and swift actions explicitly.
Well maybe swift actions can, but they also have supporting verbage. Swift actions are out though.
I was trying to say maybe immediate actions can, silly typos.
It appears I have been trumped.
wow first of all thanks for doing my homework for me :). Wish I replied before but was hanging out with some friends yesterday :P.
=0 so it covers it then. Yeah, I heard the argument of "you can't interrupt one action with another until the first one is finished" so that's when I started wondering but this in particular doesn't seem to be the case quoting the "Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions and swift actions (see below). See Table: Actions in Combat for a list of full-round actions.". I believe it got errataed or something in the srd as I believe my edition of the corebook didn't have that explanation on free/swift actions along the full round one.
I'll tell you how the things went (wish my inspiration to start the thread was so deep as Diego Rossi would suggest but the truth is that it was more simplistic:
We were facing 4 succubus. Tried to negotiate prior to combat but negotiations failed.
1st round: Smite evil succubus 1, full attack her (i rolled terribly and i hit her only once :( but left her kinda wounded (hit her for around 80 hp)
2nd round: As my DM described my past attack damaged her badly I thought that she would die with 1 or 2 attacks at most so I decided to declare a smite evil on succubus #2 but my DM told me I wasn't able to have 2 smite evils at the same time (My take is that he believed that to be true, rather than a whimsical ruling). Then I hit her once I believe and wanted to declare a smite evil on succubus #2 to keep full attacking but I was ruled again that I wasn't able to declare a smite evil in the middle of a full attack. So I had to hit her without SM and deal pathetic damage for that round :P
hours later: I checked in the corebook/srd to see if i was missing information on smite evil and the nature of swift, free and full round actions.
As Diego Rossi stated having 4 smites per day (I have 5 , being pally lvl 11 + silver smite bracers (name might be slightly wrong) ). Also she's oathbound (vengeance) pally so I think she has normally more smites than encounter per day. (up to 10 smites per day)
Thanks Diego Rossi, Wraithstrike, Happler, Fozbek and Abraham, Owen and Mournblade for shreding (more) light into the topic :D
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you want the true miracle of the thread it's the fact that we all managed to come to consensus.
Wow - this is an old necro.... but i want to add one other thing, so long as you are not Two Weapon Fighting or using a feat like cleave or vital strike (and so long as you still have your move action available to you), you are allowed to make a single attack as a standard action, and then - after that attack is resolved - decide to make additional attacks at your lower BAB, turning the attack into a full attack.
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack
After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
So a full attack already has a built in break point, where the performing of other actions can naturally fall.
Wow - this is an old necro.... but i want to add one other thing, so long as you are not Two Weapon Fighting or using a feat like cleave or vital strike (and so long as you still have your move action available to you), you are allowed to make a single attack as a standard action, and then - after that attack is resolved - decide to make additional attacks at your lower BAB, turning the attack into a full attack.
So a full attack already has a built in break point, where the performing of other actions can naturally fall.Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack
After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
That is not a break point, that is a point where you can abort your full attack to take a move action, not put something in between your iteratives.
The answer to this is simple:
If I am making a full attack with throwing daggers, and quick draw, can I make more than two attacks if my BAB is +11 or more? Of course I can. So clearly I can take a free action in between individual attacks. (The same example can be made with a bow and BAB +6 or more, free action to draw ammo). Note that there are no special rules that give the ability to take free actions to draw weapons/ammo during a full attack that would suggest doing so is a special case for free actions.
The rules then state that a swift action can be taken anytime you could take a free action. So yes, you can take a swift action in between making attacks as part of a full attack sequence.
The answer to this is simple:
If I am making a full attack with throwing daggers, and quick draw, can I make more than two attacks if my BAB is +11 or more? Of course I can. So clearly I can take a free action in between individual attacks. (The same example can be made with a bow and BAB +6 or more, free action to draw ammo). Note that there are no special rules that give the ability to take free actions to draw weapons/ammo during a full attack that would suggest doing so is a special case for free actions.
The rules then state that a swift action can be taken anytime you could take a free action. So yes, you can take a swift action in between making attacks as part of a full attack sequence.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!