If he turns it into gear then he starts being more powerful than everyone else.
Except that no matter how much he skims, he's still the rogue. So... no.
(Feel free to reference one of the thousand-plus post threads about how the Rogue is one of the mechanically weakest classes for all of the arguments if you like.)
Why single out the rogue?
In my (extensive) gaming experience, skimming is done by all classes equally.
I consider ALL Kender to be thieves and treat them accordingly. Never played with someone who plays Kender as they are presented in the books.
Ever.
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Ok... Just need to toss something out there... I think some people have a twisted sense of 'justice.'
Killing... Feeblemind... this goes a bit too far. I would have ZERO problem with the rogue getting roughed up a bit. It's absolutley legit to tell the thief that he's no longer trusted and no longer welcome in the group.
But seriously... Killing him dead? for a little bit of ebezzaling? That's hardly 'Heroic' behavior.. Feeblemind is even WORSE.
That's basically saying, that if I caught someone breaking into my car, I am perfectly justified dragging them downstairs, grabbing a screwdriver and giving them a lobotamy right there.
Then drop them off somewhere with a caretaker and wash my hands of it.
REALLY?!?!
Yeah.
You got a problem with that?
It's totally justified.
And when I'm gaming, most of my PCs also think that way.
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Ok... Just need to toss something out there... I think some people have a twisted sense of 'justice.'
Killing... Feeblemind... this goes a bit too far. I would have ZERO problem with the rogue getting roughed up a bit. It's absolutley legit to tell the thief that he's no longer trusted and no longer welcome in the group.
But seriously... Killing him dead? for a little bit of ebezzaling? That's hardly 'Heroic' behavior.. Feeblemind is even WORSE.
That's basically saying, that if I caught someone breaking into my car, I am perfectly justified dragging them downstairs, grabbing a screwdriver and giving them a lobotamy right there.
Then drop them off somewhere with a caretaker and wash my hands of it.
REALLY?!?!
When did that become the 'justified' punishment for theft? Worst case scenario i could see chopping off a hand... but still, this is all pretty harsh for him presenting each player 150gp instead of 162gp...
When you start stealing from people who run around breaking into places that dont belong to them, and killing other sentinet creatures for a living.....its generally a bad idea to steal from them.
When they kill other creatures to gain their loot/wealth, why shouldnt they kill the person in their own party that thinks its a good idea to steal from them? Because its anonther player at the table isnt justification to not kill them....
Carmachu, you know this reminds me of a scene in one of the new batman movies. Basically an accountant in wayne industries figures out that Bruce Wayne is Batman, and he approaches Morgan Freeman's Character with his evidence. He then informs Morgan Freeman's characte that he wants to black mail them for his silence. I seem to remember some of Morgan Freeman's character's responcs" so let me get this strait, you want to black mail one of the most powerful men in Gotham, who in his free time dresses up in a scary costume and beats criminals up with his bare hands? Good luck".
TWF rogue with Piranha Strike and high-threat Agile weapons is mechanically one of the highest DPR builds in the game.
On paper, sure. In actual use? No. Because every time you're not making a full attack and every time you're not flanking you loose large chunks of damage.
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Why single out the rogue?
In my (extensive) gaming experience, skimming is done by all classes equally.
Interesting. I would be curious to hear of some examples.
I am asking about a specific situation. Treasure is found in a dungeon, probably, uncovered by the thief first, Ie the treasure in a chest, and the thief decides to pocket a few extra gems coins etc.....
Why single out the rogue?
In my (extensive) gaming experience, skimming is done by all classes equally.
Interesting. I would be curious to hear of some examples.
I am asking about a specific situation. Treasure is found in a dungeon, probably, uncovered by the thief first, Ie the treasure in a chest, and the thief decides to pocket a few extra gems coins etc.....
In our games it's usually the rogue that does it... or the 2E thief trying to live up to his title...
The Alchemist/crafter in our SS has been known to take all the loot lately... granted he's using it to make specific things, but we rarely get a vote on it.. (which is cool since he also knows more min/max and what the characters NEED then the other players...)
Thoug in that group, my rogue is known to try to save some art and gold from the crafting machine by not mentioning it...
I AM curious about your statement above though. Why would the thief be the first to find the treasure? MAYBE if it was locked and needed to be picked... otherwise it's usually Everyone loot the guy closest to you and/or start shoveling the horde into the bags...
Everyone has a fair shot at skimming, and whoever is 'accountant' for the group has more chances than anyone...
(I'm sure wizards do a fair bit with their spell research and costly components...)
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But seriously... Killing him dead?
If that doesn't seem like a fair trade, then don't steal the man's stuff.
But that can be said for any build that relies on full round attacks for dpr... like the barbarian... the fighter... the ranger... :/
Oh, pretty much any non-primary caster class.
Archers can get close to their paper DPR
So can characters with pounce and dragonstyle.
The rogue however assuming that not only will he full attack but that he will full attack while flanking is painting a much rosier picture of any D&D combat i've seen. Its chaos out there man....
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Why single out the rogue?
In my (extensive) gaming experience, skimming is done by all classes equally.
Interesting. I would be curious to hear of some examples.
I am asking about a specific situation. Treasure is found in a dungeon, probably, uncovered by the thief first, Ie the treasure in a chest, and the thief decides to pocket a few extra gems coins etc.....
The fighter in the game I run has the Handy Haversack. All extra crap usually goes to him for storage. He waits a while for the others to forget he has it, sells it, and comes back with upgraded gear.
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The rogue however assuming that not only will he full attack but that he will full attack while flanking is painting a much rosier picture of any D&D combat i've seen.
DEX-based with Agile weaponry and Piranha Strike = don't need sneak-attack.
Rogues croak when they MAD-stat to keep their strength up (and consequently have only moderately good DEX exacerbated by wearing light armor anyway because they want to avoid check-penalties).
(Downside: hard to get off the ground in a cash-starved game; doesn't shine until 5th or 6th level.)
If his PC friends find out, he's stealing and he should expect to be dead.
If not, he's roleplaying.
I never realized I played in such hardcore games, but after reading this thread I feel like most people play games with way, way more training wheels than we do.
Just the idea that the GM should enforce the idea of no intraparty conflicts seems so ridiculous to me that the first couple times I read it, I assumed y'all were being sarcastic.
I've played a lot of versions of D&D, with a lot of different groups, over the last twenty years, and there are some personalities that reappear. One is the guy who always (or almost always) plays a thief/rogue, keeps important information from the party, steals from the party (either by embezzling, pick pocketing, or both), and contributes less to the party's overall success than any other character.*
Even in the most "hardcore" groups, Scumbag Thief is scorned. He's playing PvP on a PvE team, usually hording resources by taking more for himself than he can use without giving himself away. Essentially, his presence either detracts more from the gaming experience than it adds, or in less serious cases, simply adds less to the gaming experience than anyone else at the table.
Some groups kick this guy out. Other groups restrict his behavior.
Some groups let him play because they value the total freedom of a serious hardcore game, but still think he's annoying.
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* It's not unusual in my experience for this player to have a similar attitude to that of his character. On more than one occasion Scumbag Thief has been the one person who doesn't contribute food, gear, or space to the gaming group.
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Why single out the rogue?
In my (extensive) gaming experience, skimming is done by all classes equally.
Interesting. I would be curious to hear of some examples.
I am asking about a specific situation. Treasure is found in a dungeon, probably, uncovered by the thief first, Ie the treasure in a chest, and the thief decides to pocket a few extra gems coins etc.....
In our games it's usually the rogue that does it... or the 2E thief trying to live up to his title...
The Alchemist/crafter in our SS has been known to take all the loot lately... granted he's using it to make specific things, but we rarely get a vote on it.. (which is cool since he also knows more min/max and what the characters NEED then the other players...)
Thoug in that group, my rogue is known to try to save some art and gold from the crafting machine by not mentioning it...
I AM curious about your statement above though. Why would the thief be the first to find the treasure? MAYBE if it was locked and needed to be picked... otherwise it's usually Everyone loot the guy closest to you and/or start shoveling the horde into the bags...
Everyone has a fair shot at skimming, and whoever is 'accountant' for the group has more chances than anyone...
(I'm sure wizards do a fair bit with their spell research and costly components...)
Ah well I suppose something slipped through...Thieves, erm Rogues, before the disable device skill and the Trap finding class feature were spread to other classes, was often the one sent in to check for traps pick locks and were the first to open a chest/ container to see what treasure lay within.
Now i suppose there are other classes like the Alcemist who can fit that niche now.
I agree whom ever is doing the "accounting" is in the best position to "skim".
but it was often the rogue who would be the first to uncover the treasure and then had the best opportunity and the skills to help him skim "sleight of hand" and the skills to cover his theft "Bluff",etc.
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I never realized I played in such hardcore games, but after reading this thread I feel like most people play games with way, way more training wheels than we do.
Just the idea that the GM should enforce the idea of no intraparty conflicts seems so ridiculous to me that the first couple times I read it, I assumed y'all were being sarcastic.
I've played a lot of versions of D&D, with a lot of different groups, over the last twenty years, and there are some personalities that reappear. One is the guy who always (or almost always) plays a thief/rogue, keeps important information from the party, steals from the party (either by embezzling, pick pocketing, or both), and contributes less to the party's overall success than any other character.*
Even in the most "hardcore" groups, Scumbag Thief is scorned. He's playing PvP on a PvE team, usually hording resources by taking more for himself than he can use without giving himself away. Essentially, his presence either detracts more from the gaming experience than it adds, or in less serious cases, simply adds less to the gaming experience than anyone else at the table.
Some groups kick this guy out. Other groups restrict his behavior.
Some groups let him play because they value the total freedom of a serious hardcore game, but still think he's annoying.------------
* It's not unusual in my experience for this player to have a similar attitude to that of his character. On more than one occasion Scumbag Thief has been the one person who doesn't contribute food, gear, or space to the gaming group.
Yes i know the type....and i find that style of playing quite irritating. I find it especially irritating when they cheerfully tell you, "now that is player knowledge, you have to separate that from your character knowledge".
Your point about Player vs Player in a Player VS enviornment is an excellent take on their behavior, because they are keeping an eye out for when they have "worn out their welcome" and may have to get involved in PVP.
I remember years ago,( the mid 90s) this was just after i had moved to New York, stared Art College, and i had gone to the Complete Strategist to find a new game on their message board. I found one and after talking with the DM on the phone ( the game was just around the corner from my student housing), he invited me to join. I was informed it was a high level game. The game was 12-13 level. I had a character, who was a 1/2 elven Ranger/ Bard 12/13 level. I modeled him after the fella with the fedora and the bull whip, and his name was well, my current avatar name, Elyas Ravenwood. I had worked for many years in a previous campaign to get him up to that level, and i was pleased i had an opportunity to continue playing the character. The mage in the party was a dual classed 4th lvl Thief/ 12 level mage.
Our first encounter of the evening was with a vampire. My character stepped up with the other fighter character to engage the vampire. It was a difficult fight...and by the end of it, my character had been level drained down to 6/6 level. The mage didn't cast a single spell in the fight. Not a single one. I wasn't pleased. The guy playing the mage explained to me that he wanted to conserve his spells in case he had to face the Litch that lived in this dungeon.
He said he never wanted to be without any spells in case he needed to "deal" with a party member.....
Well that evening at camp, the wizard was attacked by an invisible stalker......While the mage was being thrashed, and saying "guys a little help here" I turned to the fighter and asked "do you see anything?" he replied "nope that's one crazy wizard". we sat back and enjoyed the evening's entertainment.
so yeah...it can be very irksome to have a PVP player in the party, when everyone else is oriented towards PVE.
Blue luck, a very good point....sometimes if someone has a scum bag for a character, they will often be a bit of a scum bag themselves.
Conversely I suppose there are not many people who might be thought of as “paladins” in real life with a “Lawful Good” personality.
I love playing rogues. And skimming of the treasure is something many rogues do.
I think the party should react to it as they feel. If the rogue skims and is a jerk big chance he/she gets kicked out or worse.
If the rogue has a big role in de group and is a nice guy/girl. And takes care of lots of the loot gets good prices for there stuff and shares his/her wealth with the party. Then the party might just accept it. Sometimes its just the trill to see if they can get away with it.
I had a character that took a little extra for himself, but in the end he had less gold then the rest because he always bought the drinks en took care of the rooms etc.
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So your assertion is that a medium BAB class using Dex to hit, Dex to damage, and a dex-based Power Attack clone, but without sneak attack or any other damage booster, beats full BAB classes with all of that and a damage booster in DPS? That is your claim after all,The rogue however assuming that not only will he full attack but that he will full attack while flanking is painting a much rosier picture of any D&D combat i've seen.DEX-based with Agile weaponry and Piranha Strike = don't need sneak-attack.
Where did I imply "without any other damage booster" (aside from sneak-attack)?
Gee, it doesn't look like I said that anywhere at all, does it?
Preposterous.You realize you can discuss an idea without being insulting, don't you?
He's not being insulting, he just has the same lack of a tone filter that i do.
Crunch some numbers, make a friend.
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Crunch some numbers, make a friend.?
Argue for the piranha strike rogue using math (preferably in another thread so we keep the Amtrak level derailing to a minimum)
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Hmm.... dual-scorpion-whip-wielding halfling samurai/dragoon/urban-barbarian on a boar (wearing two pair of Slippers of Spider Climbing) is stuck to the ceiling in the next room. Lunge, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Indomitable Mount, yadda-yadda. No sneak-attack. Tons of multi-rolls out the butt.
Go ahead, run a Reckless Mutagen Rager into that 20' reach Cuisinart of flensing.
Be like tossing a meatball in a blender.
Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it ...
I've allowed it in the past. And I have also allowed the other characters to do with the thief as they see fit. If you are going to screw your companions, be prepared for them to screw you.
Back in college, I had a player who wanted to play a necromancer. The surviving party had found a safe haven in the dungeon in the form of a crypt. I decided the best way to have the new character brought in was to have him hiding in the crypt as well, after his party got killed off.
The guy playing the necromancer told me he wanted to wait until the party bedded down for the night, cast a spell on him that made him look like an undead, pop out from inside a sarcophagus and scare them.
So I let him do it. I told the party that 3 hours after they bedded down, the guy on watch heard the sound of stone on stone. He turned around and there, climbing out of one of the crypts, was a humanoid undead in wizards robes.
The fighter raised the alarm and charged....
I have also had thief/rogue players steal from the Paladin. Then they are surprised when the Paladin chops their hand off.
Every action has a consequence. If you want to skim from the people you are trusting your life to, be prepared for them not to have your back when you need it. Call it role-playing if you want, when your rogue takes a little extra treasure. Also call it role-playing when the other characters decide they have no use for you.
Why single out the rogue?
In my (extensive) gaming experience, skimming is done by all classes equally.
And this is ABSOLUTELY the case...I have had wizard characters that tell the party that magical amulet is really just a brass bauble with magic aura cast on it, and then go on to wear the magical item. Granted the rest of the party was foolish enough to not question the wizard....
Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?
If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?
How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?
And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?
What do you all think? Thank you.
The rogue player is applying for the Richard Cranium Award of Bad Gaming, where he will be ultimately rewarded with no friends. The player is using 'role-playing' as an excuse to behave badly. Treat this symptom with a folding chair applied repeatedly until symptoms desist.
The rogue player is applying for the Richard Cranium Award of Bad Gaming, where he will be ultimately rewarded with no friends. The player is using 'role-playing' as an excuse to behave badly. Treat this symptom with a folding chair applied repeatedly until symptoms desist.
Because in no possible game could a PC be less than scrupulous?
You're also assuming he gets caught.
I've allowed it in the past. And I have also allowed the other characters to do with the thief as they see fit. If you are going to screw your companions, be prepared for them to screw you.
I honestly just don't know how the skimming thieves are being caught in so many of these posts. Were the players/characters just that stupid about it, or was there some metagaming going on?
I've played in games in which intraparty stealing was caught because the stealing player was incredibly stupid about it. For example, arguing/begging/pleading for a particular piece of equipment and then immediately pickpocketing it from the person who ended up with it. Yeah... that guy figured it out.
I've also played in games in which the other players never knew. In one case a character (not a rogue or even a sneaky character) stole a tremendous wealth of magic items from the whole party. The rest of us had no idea for literally years after the campaign ended until it somehow came up in conversation and the DM finally revealed what had happened.
Both of my examples, incidentally, are some of the most memorable incidents from those campaigns and none of the players have held grudges against the other players. I don't know what the problem is.
I never realized I played in such hardcore games, but after reading this thread I feel like most people play games with way, way more training wheels than we do.
Just the idea that the GM should enforce the idea of no intraparty conflicts seems so ridiculous to me that the first couple times I read it, I assumed y'all were being sarcastic.
I have seen it played both ways.
I have been in campaigns that the DM was throwing us up against really hard encounters regularly. Everyone need to be running at 100% or we were looking at a TPK. If the rest of the party had wasted spells, skill points, and wealth just to defend against our party rogue(which was me), our group would not have survived the campaign. We had at least one character death every other session. As it was, the campaign fell apart around level 12 because we had one player who like to do things to annoy other players, then hide behind "I am just roleplaying" shield. With that group of players in that kind of campaign, it just wasn't welcome.
I have a group now that half of our encounters are player generated(start bar brawls, stealing from NPC that you shouldn't steal from, etc), and our skills are either used to get our fellow players out of trouble, or make things worse for them. Player vs Player interaction are a regular thing, and a rogue skimming off the top would be expected and probably encouraged.
I would consider the first campaign to be much more hardcore than my current campaign despite the relative lack of player vs player interactions.
The worst campaign was the DM I had way back in 2nd ed. He had a hard rule that players could do anything to each other except inflict lethal damage. So as a pure fighter, I was basically at the mercy of everyone in the group because while I was awesome at inflicting damage, I was not allowed to use those abilities on the rest of the group, while the rest of the group had tons of options for things they could do to me. That got old really fast. The drow ranger/mage would have been dead 3 times of for just the in character reasons I had for killing him. By the end of the campaign, I resorted to giving my group the finger and grabing loot I just grabbed the loot I wanted in front of everyone and told the group to piss off because I was sick of that crap.
As a DM, when it comes to player vs player interaction, you either have to let anything go, or you have to keep everyone on a pretty tight leash. Trying for the middle ground by only allowing some types of interactions has a tendancy to favor some classes over others.
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What, exactly, can your medium BAB sneak attack-less Rogue do to make up for having a medium BAB and no damaging class features?
Well, for starters, I would sneak-attack if I can -- seeing as the "given" is one of those horrible BAB-deprived rogues.
Agile weaponry merely keeps damage very respectable when I can't sneak-attack as a DEX-advancing TWF rogue (and permits me to escape the STR/DEX MAD-trap by solely focusing on DEX). -- I.e., I don't have to be able to out-slug Conan toe-to-toe in order to otherwise still be considered very destructive. (Paradoxically, the AC-dumping Conans are among the easier targets for TWF rogues to deal with: Hunter's Suprise, and they go down with big, bloody Xs in their eyes.)
Because unlike most of the thieves being discussed in this thread he (all kender really) would steal your bent spoon or hard candy from your rations not piles of boring old coins, the funny carved club before the relatively plain but powerfully magic sword......I've often wondered this myself.
How come Tanis, Flint, and the rest of the group from the Dragonlance novels never roasted Tasslehoff alive?
Actually I happen to know the reason.
The Dragonlance series was played first then turned into novels. And while some creative license was taken in the novels basically the player actually shaped the personality of that character for all to read. Now these guys were all friends and co-workers. And the player of Tasslehoff was a pretty funny guy. So Tasslehoff's behavior was more for comedy rather than getting more stuff then the other guy. If he stole something from the group then he would give it back as soon as the others realized it was missing. Some jokes were made about the dangers of letting a Kender near your coin purse and everyone laughed.
As for the issue at hand, it's like that radio report I heard recently about everyone's irritation with play alongside "Serious Guy". Now they were talking about sports not gaming, but the idea is the same. You have a bunch of friends out to shoot some hoops and have fun, and this guy keeps taunting the others for missing shots and showing off his rage when he messes up. In other words ruining everyones fun. If the thief is a "Serious Guy" maybe it's best that he sit out a few games to try to calm down and learn to just have fun. If the whole group are "Serious Guys" and the thief is just trying to have a little harmless fun, then he is in the wrong group and won't fit in. If everyone is "Serious Guy" then it sounds like you need new table rules to keep it all going smooth.
What, exactly, can your medium BAB sneak attack-less Rogue do to make up for having a medium BAB and no damaging class features?Well, for starters, I would sneak-attack if I can -- seeing as the "given" is one of those horrible BAB-deprived rogues.
Agile weaponry merely keeps damage very respectable when I can't sneak-attack as a DEX-advancing TWF rogue (and permits me to escape the STR/DEX MAD-trap by solely focusing on DEX). -- I.e., I don't have to be able to out-slug Conan toe-to-toe in order to otherwise still be considered very destructive. (Paradoxically, the AC-dumping Conans are among the easier targets for TWF rogues to deal with: Hunter's Suprise, and they go down with big, bloody Xs in their eyes.)
10th level Barbarians will have 80.5+10*Con (usually 16+2or+4item) so most likely somewhere at 130.5 HPs plus his DR counts against your attacks.
5d6 Sneakattack is 17.5 DMG.So if he is full attacking and hitting every attack we will look forward do something like 70 (sneak) + 18 (weapons) + 16 (piranha strike) - 8DR damage. If you hit that is 96 damage. Impressive but unlikely to screw up the Barbarian. Your best chance is to win the initiative and then use hunter's suprise. But still you are unlikely to hit with your secondary attacks +9 (+1 BAB +1 Weapon Focus -2 TWF +7 Dex +2 magic?) solidly. Not even against AC dumping Barbarians who have at least 20AC (+2 Breastplate, +2 Dex)in the first round...
But this is highly hypothetical. Because once the party melee0r attacks the thief of their loot the other characters will most likely join him, leading to the ultimate demise of the rogue...
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Moving the goalposts. You said you didn't need sneak attack to be one of the highest DPR builds.Actually, no; I never said that -- that's merely your imagination getting the better of you as you attempt to win an argument on the internet. Allow me to refresh your memory:
"TWF rogue with Piranha Strike and high-threat Agile weapons is mechanically one of the highest DPR builds in the game. "
See? Nothing about not using sneak-attack.
But you've already been reminded of that before, haven't you, Fozbek? On this very page, no less.
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It means, very simply, that a DEX maximizing rogue remains capable of dishing out respectable damage without always having to sneak-attack.
E.g., 12th-level halfling rogue with DEX:26 is pulling in 1d3+15 minimum numeric damage Piranha Striking with a +1/Agile 15-20 threat weapon. 4x that for I-TWF, and not bad at all. Not being able to land an additional 4x(6d6) doesn't mean that he sucks.
Pfffft. Forget the rogue. In our party it was the mage we had to watch who was caught stealing from the party....
Yup... Mages can steal a ton by 'failing' to note items are magical to the party. Easy pickings.
Of course, once you toss him a magic ring the rest of the group doesn't know about, he knows you've been acquiring extra...
Mess with the thief a bit. Make it a magic ring of gender bending, or a ring of skin color change (fluorescent pink), or race change... or all three...
And I'm being nice. It could be much worse.
The rogue player is applying for the Richard Cranium Award of Bad Gaming, where he will be ultimately rewarded with no friends. The player is using 'role-playing' as an excuse to behave badly. Treat this symptom with a folding chair applied repeatedly until symptoms desist.Because in no possible game could a PC be less than scrupulous?
You're also assuming he gets caught.
Invariably, he will get caught out, IC or OOC. If it turns out the party has been hurting because of his 'skimming' then they are going to be annoyed.
I had this happen once where I put sets of gear in a location that would give the party everything they needed. Two of the (large) party found the cache and instead of sharing it, took everything they could use, sold the rest and bought new stuff with the cash. Then the party ran into the encounter, the 'loremaster' realised they didn't have everything they needed, half the party got slaughtered, much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
After that session the players rounded on me and the conversation went something like this:
Spokesman: "We didn't have what we needed, but we went everywhere there was to go!"
Me: "I can't answer that."
Spokesman: "Oh come on, we went to X, got what was there, went to Y, got what was there, the two thieves went to Z and ... said ... they hadn't ... found anything ..."
Two Thieves: :D :D
Spokesman: "£$%@&!!!"
Epic Fight become Epic Fail, and the moral of the story is this:
"Thou dost not cr@p upon thy mates who watch thy back."
Of course some people like this kind of thing, but if your idea of fun is backstabbing your friends, you ain't no friend of mine.
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Invariably, he will get caught out, IC or OOC. If it turns out the party has been hurting because of his 'skimming' then they are going to be annoyed.
I played in one campaign (as one of the "victim" players) in which we didn't realize a major gear theft was PC-engineered until several years after the campaign was over when the person in question chose to reveal it.
So, no, it's not invariable -- and no one was surly about it, either.
I had this happen once where I put sets of gear in a location that would give the party everything they needed. Two of the (large) party found the cache and instead of sharing it, took everything they could use, sold the rest and bought new stuff with the cash. Then the party ran into the encounter, the 'loremaster' realised they didn't have everything they needed, half the party got slaughtered, much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Why do your players have so much meta information about what they'll find?
Of course some people like this kind of thing, but if your idea of fun is backstabbing your friends, you ain't no friend of mine.
It's a game. When I play Risk with my friends, I also mercilessly slaughter the troops they left in Australia. In Monopoly I'm going to clean them out if they land on my hotel on Park Place. Etc.
Now, a player who's the unscrupulous character every time is a problem player, not a problem character -- but if your players aren't like that and still can't separate character actions from player actions, they have a maturity problem.
That's also not to say that I haven't run campaigns in which I say something like: everyone is making a good-aligned PC this time. But that's not every game.
Invariably, he will get caught out, IC or OOC. If it turns out the party has been hurting because of his 'skimming' then they are going to be annoyed.
I played in one campaign (as one of the "victim" players) in which we didn't realize a major gear theft was PC-engineered until several years after the campaign was over when the person in question chose to reveal it.
So, no, it's not invariable -- and no one was surly about it, either.
We are specifically talking about a players who regularly steals from the group. Your example is a one time thing, which has a much better success rate. Any player who repeatedly steals from the group will eventually get caught.
There is also a huge difference between. "We found out about it a year later and we all had a good laugh" and "We had a TPK because the rogue hocked the wizard's spellbook when he wasn't looking". When you are in the middle of it, emotions run a lot higher than when you look back on things a year later.
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It's a game. When I play Risk with my friends, I also mercilessly slaughter the troops they left in Australia. In Monopoly I'm going to clean them out if they land on my hotel on Park Place. Etc.
Monopoly and Risk are competitive games. I, for one, prefer it when RPGs are not.