|
Is Bestiary 2 now considered a core product? I ask because I noticed a creature used in the first Jade Regent Adventure Path references a creature out of the Bestiary 2.
To me, this isn't a big deal now but it does bother me a bit that the material needed for the adventure isn't right there or in the Bestiary 1. The main element of my concern being that I need to have or find something for the product I purchased that isn't just right there or in one of the original core products.
I do understand that most of this information can be found free on the internet under psrd or whatever but being a physical book guy first and a internet guy second doesn't help me much.
Am I the only one that is bothered by this? Not looking for an argument. Just wanted to express my concern.
|
In before Bugleyman.
This was covered several times on the board. Paizo's stance = referring stuff without reprinting gives them more creative freedom instead of stacking the books with statblocks. Also, folks buy books they want to see used in Paizo products, unlike the WotC "publish and forget" policy.
In any case, each book lists used material on the splash page, and everything is out there online.
|
I find it some what surprising, but it seems that most of the hardback books are destined to be "core" material. Since I get them all, it isn't a bit deal.
The required books are in mess of small print on the cover page. There is also the link to the PRD.
I was looking for that info on the back cover at first, so it is kind of "hidden" in my opinion.
|
|
All core products are included in the PRD available on this website. I believe that the Bestiary has been updated to include the Bestiary 2. If you are unable to pick up the book, you can always print it out for your use when running.
Just one of the reasons that Paizo is AWESOME! ^_^
EDIT: I believe all books released in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game section of the Products list are considered Core. Everything in the Campaign Setting, AP, Modules, and Players Companion sections are not.
Creative Director
|
For the purposes of Adventure Paths, yes.... the Bestiary line is essentially considered to be core. By using short stat blocks for things from Bestiary, Bestiary 2, and (once it's out) Bestiary 3, we can focus more on the actual adventure than on reprinting stat blocks.
We actually started doing this with Carrion Crown--I was a bit nervous about it, but the response was nowhere near the outrage I thought it would be. As far as I can tell so far the response is somewhere between "don't care" and "I approve."
In any event, the fact that the monster stats in the Bestiaries are open content, and thus freely available on the internet, helped us make this decision--if you're a GM who doesn't own any Bestiaries, you can go online and print out the stats you need as you need them.
That said, OBVIOUSLY we want you to buy the books. They help us stay in business so we CAN continue to print Adventure Paths.
Note that beyond the Bestiaries, the other rulebooks aren't quite so "required," since if we use a spell or an archetype or a base class from something like "Ultimate Magic" we'll either print a detailed enough stat block that you won't really need the book that class comes from, or we'll note the little things like feats and spells that come from non-core books so you can ignore or swap them out for options from books you DO have access to. That's a relatively simple fix... but for monsters, we really do like and enjoy the option to be able to use those short stat blocks. Especially since it encourages us to vary the monsters a lot. It would get old seeing the same old monsters--Bestiary 1 has lots of monsters, but when you do 18 adventures a year, most of which are in the mid level range... those monsters start repeating.
I just started GM'ing Carrion Crown and noticed a few Beastiary 2 monsters...
Might we see the Beastiary 2 monsters added to the website soon?
Note: I like the idea of the AP's being playable with only Core and Beastiary 1. Perhaps an item about substituting a B1 monster could be placed in the "GM's reference" section of the message boards for each issue?
I just started GM'ing Carrion Crown and noticed a few Beastiary 2 monsters...
Might we see the Beastiary 2 monsters added to the website soon?
Note: I like the idea of the AP's being playable with only Core and Beastiary 1. Perhaps an item about substituting a B1 monster could be placed in the "GM's reference" section of the message boards for each issue?
They've been there for a few months now, right here.
OK, I don't know how I missed that!
Thanks!
Wow there is even a note about it below the links... time to get my eyes checked.
|
Creative Director
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just started GM'ing Carrion Crown and noticed a few Beastiary 2 monsters...
Might we see the Beastiary 2 monsters added to the website soon?
Note: I like the idea of the AP's being playable with only Core and Beastiary 1. Perhaps an item about substituting a B1 monster could be placed in the "GM's reference" section of the message boards for each issue?
When we do use monsters from Bestiary 2 and use short stat blocks, we try to include enough "about this monster" in the text in that monster's encounter so that the GM who doesn't want to have to look those stats up in another book can simply replace it with a similar monster. Of course... usually that also means the GM has to DESIGN that monster himself, since we generally don't design monsters in Bestiary 2 or beyond who can be easily replaced by existing monsters of similar CR and appearance and ecological niche...
Limiting our flagship product line (the Adventure Paths) to ONLY using the Core Rules and the Bestiary is unappealing to me for two reasons:
1) It basically tells players who HAVE purchased other books that those books are not needed and gives the inaccurate impression that we aren't proud enough of our own books to use their contents in our own products.
2) It prevents us from using our own material, which is lame, since often we put things into the rulebooks (like samurai and ninja) BECAUSE we need them for an AP we want to create.
The fact that our rulebooks are VERY affordable in PDF form, and even MORE affordable (free!) in PRD form is not only because we want those rules to go out there as far as possible into the world, but also to give us the opportunity to assume those rules are available enough that we can afford the luxury of using shorthand for some elements... like monsters... in adventures we create. Which limits repetition and reprinting and allows us to focus more on providing actual new content to people.
Personally... I would rather see a short statblock and a 500 word encounter that's fun to play and is brand new than a long stat block and one less 500 word encounter.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
...I would rather see a short statblock and a 500 word encounter that's fun to play and is brand new than a long stat block and one less 500 word encounter.
As a freelancer, I absolutely appreciate the stance James (and Paizo, really) takes on this subject. It opens up a whole new world of possibilities in terms of adventure design. The space saved on having to reprint entire stat-blocks is tremendous. And, there's so many cool monsters and classes that become available in Bestiary 2, the Advanced Player's Guide, and Ultimate Combat, it gives you more freedom in encounter design and custom tailoring to fit certain themes you wouldn't have room to do otherwise.
My two cents,
--Neil
|
We actually started doing this with Carrion Crown--I was a bit nervous about it, but the response was nowhere near the outrage I thought it would be. As far as I can tell so far the response is somewhere between "don't care" and "I approve."
Well since it is being mentioned here I will add my 2 cents. Currently Dm'ing Carrion crown and for the most part most of my initial fears have been unfounded with only one exception
I like using the bestiary as they come out. Each one has so many cool monsters in it, that it makes it a lot of fun to run using all theses new monsters with. Plus keeps from getting burned out with just the same old monster each time.
|
|
To everyone that replied. Thank you.
Knowing the reasons behind a decision does make me feel better about it. I also appreciate that such a decision does not extend beyond the bestiary line which as many others have stated they have anyway (so do I).
PS: I have all the adventure paths, having started with the Second Darkness AP, and accumulated the previous ones over time. Though I will never get to play or run all of them, I never feel like my dollars are wasted.
The last Adventure path I looked through was Kingmaker which had full stat blocks for anything not in the core books, so I was disappointed after recently subscribing and seeing this in Jade Regent. I've always been a firm believer in using only the corest of the core books. :P
However, what I read here makes sense. Thinking on it... with the space limitations in the Adventure Paths, I would rather have a more detailed description of an encounter than almost an entire page full of a stat block. I like writing stuff down anyway to help me remember things, so putting together my own stat blocks to print out so I don't have to depend on an internet connection (I hate using my phone for that!) wouldn't be too bad.
Just something I'll have to get used to when I find a group to run them with! :P
|
|
We actually started doing this with Carrion Crown--I was a bit nervous about it, but the response was nowhere near the outrage I thought it would be. As far as I can tell so far the response is somewhere between "don't care" and "I approve."
Put me in the "I approve" camp.
I'm also amazed at the lack of internet angst over this. Surely someone, somewhere, must hate it with the heat of a thousand suns?
+1 to the "I Approve" camp.
Me too. It's hard to complain when all the info is ON THE INTERNET :)
for free!
(I would also like to point out that to complain about it, you have to use the internet...which you could have been using your time on to look up the relevant info :)