RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Actually from an AP point of view, the Pathfinders are not really the group you want to send in.
RotRL
CotCT
SD
LoF
[spoiler] The Moldseeker's weapon would be locked up early on, good luck w/o it!
CoT
That's off the top of my head, though imagine how well a Pathfinder controlled nation would be received in Kingmaker?
It also always struck me as odd that the pathfinders would publish these chronicles. It doesnt seem like a huge leap to form the view that keeping the secrets uncovered by their agents would be better for the organisation than making them more widely available. I can understand a group forming to go tomb-robbing, lost city exploring and ancient lore unearthing - I dont see what their motivation is for making that information widely available (at least without assuming they're benevolent, serving to a 'god of knowledge' or somesuch).
I thought Pathfinder Chronicles were only available to other Pathfinders. Writing things down isn't the same as making publicly available.
Of course, plenty of volumes end up in non-Pathfinder hands.
I just wanted to get that off my chest. The existance of a mutli-national organization of professional adventurers bugs the heck out of me. It makes the PCs' adventures seem common and reduces them to the role of errand-boys to the more experienced, famous and successfull Pathfinders.
I suppose it's pointless to rail against something so integral to the game system that they named it after them, but I've been wanting to say it for a while.
That's all, really. I'm hoping either enough people chime in here with enthusiastic support of the Pathfinder Society to change my mind -OR- other people who share my distaste join me in a public confession.
Or both.
I don't mind them....actualy though I have not really used them alot in my characters(or as a GM for that matter).
But I like the idea because they harken back to those old Victorian adventurtes clubs so I like the feel.
Plus there are a easy way to have the PCs be adventuring together...or explaiun why is this guy from Nex in the the Lands of the Linnorm Kings.
Yeah,they don't capture my imagination much either. All the Golarion games I've run or played in haven't had much to do with them, except for an occasional reference here or there, and no one's cared to really poke more into it. It seems too gimmicky and clearly constructed to be An RPG Adventure Hook Generator. I'd like them better if they were more localized, like the National Geographic Society, as opposed to being so "perfectly international."
Yeah, if I were GMing, I'd portray them to be more of a loose association of like-minded individuals rather than a multi-national conglomerate that sends peons to go collect 5 rat skins (or whatever).
You got that one backwards. The product name Pathfinder came first. It might not be a coincidence that they could use the name for the Pathfinder Society (the in-game organisation AND the name for their organised play), but they didn't invent the Pathfinders and then thought "Hey, those guys are super important, let's call everything we do from now on by their name!"Actually, I think that's exactly what happened. The Pathfinder Society was mentioned in a back-up article in 'Burnt Offerings,' well before the Pathfinder RPG was announced.
But I am guilty of not differentiating between the RPG and Golarion, so y'all are right to point out that the organization is key to the setting and not the game.
The Pathfinder RPG was named thus because they already had a huge success with the Pathfinder Adventure Paths and the Pathfinder Chronicles. And Pathfinder Companion.
The name Pathfinder, as used in their product lines, was found long before they ever thought of making their own version of the 3e rules.
The first Pathfinder product ever (Burnt Offerings) had the first mention of the PFS. We have to engage in speculation (until someone from Paizo chimes in and gives us the facts) whether they first came up with the name "Pathfinder Society" and then decided to name their new adventure paths after it, or came up with Pathfinder and then thought it would also make a good name for an organisation of adventurers, but I think they came up with the product name first.
But whatever came first, Pathfinder RPG came much, much later, and was named Pathfinder because Paizo names more or less everything Pathfinder. Let's hope they get over that before anyone from Paizo gets pregnant ;-).
Personally, I don't think they would make very good villians, since the society would work to keep individual agents within certain parameters to avoid unnecessary trouble, and the society itself doesn't really come across as villianous to me, for the same reason I don't think the individual agents would be. I could see them more as an interested 3rd party that often makes it slightly harder, and occasionally slightly easier, to deal with the main issue.
The Turks from FF7 strike me as a good way to portray them if you want to highlight their darker side. They'll work to maintain their interests, but usually step out of the way if pushed against hard enough. If you come to close to core activities or properties, they'll push back, but otherwise, both the organization and an individual agent would likely decide that most historical artifacts and documents aren't worth a major fight that would jeopardize the overall well being of themselves.
See This is more or less how I see them. Generally they have great PR and some agents are good guys, but many are no more than ruthless tomb raiders looking for fame and fortune. The society itself has benevolent streaks and is a generally nuetral to good organization due to the necessity of being so. They are helpful because as they say you get more flies with sugar or something like that. They help stop cataclysmic events when they are occuring not because of some altruistic ideals, but because they want to make it to the next day and continue their work. It affects them so they want it to stop. SHinra and the Turks were similiar in many ways (and tbh Shinra like bosses could easily run some lodges while good guys and revelutionaries run others. They are as deverse as the man or woman in charge)
At least they're not all good-aligned.
They're better than the Harpers.
+1000
I fondly remember a red mage game where we got to dismember some Harpers. Good times.
They've gone back and forth on this a few times, but I think what's finally been settled on is "The initial publication run is only made available to Pathfinders, but the organization is so leaky that the exclusive period is only a few months before accurate copies are in the wild, at best."It also always struck me as odd that the pathfinders would publish these chronicles. It doesnt seem like a huge leap to form the view that keeping the secrets uncovered by their agents would be better for the organisation than making them more widely available. I can understand a group forming to go tomb-robbing, lost city exploring and ancient lore unearthing - I dont see what their motivation is for making that information widely available (at least without assuming they're benevolent, serving to a 'god of knowledge' or somesuch).I thought Pathfinder Chronicles were only available to other Pathfinders. Writing things down isn't the same as making publicly available.
Of course, plenty of volumes end up in non-Pathfinder hands.
That was how I saw it too. Irrespective, it wouldn't take much of a leap to stop internal publication anyhow. Why do field agents get easier access to such a treasure trove of wealth (at whatever level they are granted such access)?
Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't imagine a non lawful, non good organization maintaining that policy after the first half dozen unauthorized "follow up looting" expeditions.
So, once again, I write too much, and put it in spoiler tags for your convenience. Any quotes I use are for purposes of continuing the conversation in general, and not so much call-outs to individuals.
They've gone back and forth on this a few times, but I think what's finally been settled on is "The initial publication run is only made available to Pathfinders, but the organization is so leaky that the exclusive period is only a few months before accurate copies are in the wild, at best."
This is basically what happens. Which, applied...
That was how I saw it too. Irrespective, it wouldn't take much of a leap to stop internal publication anyhow. Why do field agents get easier access to such a treasure trove of wealth (at whatever level they are granted such access)?
Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't imagine a non lawful, non good organization maintaining that policy after the first half dozen unauthorized "follow up looting" expeditions.
The "follow-up" looting isn't really "follow-up" - generally it's presumed that looting happens in the initial set-up, some of it goes to Venture Captains, and some to the Society (with specific goals sent to the Society). Generally looting is kind of expected, and is acceptable, so long as it's all reported. More on this below.
Really, what Pathfinders are expected to do is: explore, report, cooperate (with eachother). The last is the most-often ignored rule, as sometimes Pathfinders are competing for the same thing, and occasionally they clash based on morals or ethics. The first two are readily followed as that gains prestige in the organization, and most don't see much danger in describing a place that they've just cleansed... or don't care about the consequences to others.
Individual Venture Captains gain revenue by charging Pathfinders who stay at the lodges varying fees (from diminutive or exorbitant or anything in between, completely up to the discretion of the Captain). Further, they can sometimes (depending on the situation and/or Captain) claim (nominal) "cuts" of treasure found by the Pathfinders (though I'd imagine this is rare). Even more, the more successful adventures that happen through their lodge, the more they gain a good reputation, the more Pathfinders come through their lodge, the more money they gain: ergo, they seek to place Pathfinders in assignments they feel said Pathfinders can accomplish to gain prestige, and thus revenue. The Society gains a small portion of their profits (I presume a minimum is set, although I've never seen a minimum percentage in print). Again, the better a Lodge is about following this, the better their reputation, the more Pathfinders are sent their way, the more money they gain, etc.
The Venture Captains can't stray too far out of line, however, for the Decemirate has ways of knowing things, and can enforce things, should the need arise. How this is done is not printed anywhere, to my knowledge. Presume magic.
The thing is, no one knows much about the Decemvirate. It isn't known if they're the original leaders somehow immortal, if they use some strange method to replace themselves (by vote, say) or anything else about them. They take their own council, promote Pathfinders of various kinds to Venture Captains, and (presumably) issue (some) funds to establish a lodge (probably enhanced by the finances a former adventurer-now venture captain gained by adventuring). Even the Venture Captains don't know the identity of the Decemirate, although there are "ways" to verify their status, it seems.
With their ability to establish (or remove) Venture Captains and their skill at gaining information rapidly, the Decemvirate doesn't have to worry too much about the "leakiness" of their organization. Only one or two relatively major "bad" things have occurred over the centuries from this leakiness, and those have apparently sorted themselves out (especially the printing of one early issue of Pathfinder Chronicles, which was recalled and completely destroyed afterwords, although theoretically one copy still exists in the Grand Lodge in Absolom under lock and key.
Pathfinders themselves are of any range or sort at all. However, most, while adventurous (and thus have PC classes) aren't really PC-style adventurers - they seek fame, fortune, and/or power, and the Society provides a relatively safe-haven for their activities in the form of lodges, a relatively easy spot to dispose of unwanted goods, and a relatively known (but loose and lightly enforced) framework to be active anywhere they need to go. The Society is a means to an end, in other words, but the adventurers are also means to an end.
While Pathfinders can break the code, they can become disgraced and thus have their status temporarily (or even permanently) revoked for doing so. Most are loath to do this, because the Society doesn't really say much other than "this person is no longer a Pathfinder for doing stupid things, ignore him forever or until we say otherwise"... which is a difficult thing to deal with.
All this information can be found in the PFCS: Inner-Sea Guide, the Golaripedia, and the Pathfiner Wiki (I prefer the latter of the two online sites due to lack of tons of adds).
In the end, however, the Pathfinders are there for you to use them as you wish and they can be whatever you want.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
|
The first Pathfinder product ever (Burnt Offerings) had the first mention of the PFS. We have to engage in speculation (until someone from Paizo chimes in and gives us the facts) whether they first came up with the name "Pathfinder Society" and then decided to name their new adventure paths after it, or came up with Pathfinder and then thought it would also make a good name for an organisation of adventurers, but I think they came up with the product name first.
We came up with the name "Pathfinder" because we wanted to play off the idea of an "Adventure Path" magazine, and that had a nice ring to it.
I came up with the "Pathfinder Society" as an organized play/"Adventurer's Guild" within Pathfinder (the "magazine") within about 10 minutes of coming up with the name for the monthly product.
There was always going to be a product element and an Organized Play element, and I really wanted to kill two birds with one stone, using the same general name for both.
So it all kind of happened at the same time. "Pathfinder Chronicles," as the written reports of the organization and the name of the campaign setting line, also happened at pretty much the exact same time.
So blame me. :)
So blame me. :)
Thanks!
So blame me. :)
Sold! To the creepy one-eyed idol in the corner that is probably about to have its eye pried out by a rogue.
So, once again, I write too much, and put it in spoiler tags for your convenience. Any quotes I use are for purposes of continuing the conversation in general, and not so much call-outs to individuals.
That was how I saw it too. Irrespective, it wouldn't take much of a leap to stop internal publication anyhow. Why do field agents get easier access to such a treasure trove of wealth (at whatever level they are granted such access)?
Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't imagine a non lawful, non good organization maintaining that policy after the first half dozen unauthorized "follow up looting" expeditions.
Spoiler:Really, it's not so much what your saying, as it is the fact that the organization is leaky, as described above. And Pathfinders, while they're interested in artifacts, aren't all about them. In fact, the most important thing to the Decemvirate is to gain knowledge for themselves. Also, "artifacts" don't necessarily mean "artifacts" in game terms - usually it's a piece of historical significance, rather than magical power - sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't.The "follow-up" looting isn't really "follow-up" - generally it's presumed that looting happens in the initial set-up, some of it goes to Venture Captains, and some to the Society (with specific goals sent to the Society). Generally looting is kind of expected, and is acceptable, so long as it's all reported. More on this below.
Really, what Pathfinders are expected to do is: explore, report, cooperate (with eachother). The last is the most-often ignored rule, as sometimes Pathfinders are competing for the same thing, and occasionally they clash based on morals or ethics. The first two are readily followed as that gains prestige in the organization, and most don't see much danger in describing a place that they've just cleansed... or don't care about the consequences to others.
I pretty much agree with what you have set out - I just dont understand why they keep publishing the chronicles - no matter how limited the release is intended to be. Presumably they know their organisation is leaky. Whose interests does it serve to collate the reports from itinerant pathfinders? Why not keep all of the collaborative exploration reports secret - there's no need to share it with anyone inside the organisation as far as I can see. All that results from making the information more readily available is that the value of the secrets is diminished - the decemvirate and their trusted agents would still have access to all the information gathered by the organisation's widespread agents.
I have more a comment on PFS then Pathfinders as a concept; I often find that true scholars do not good adventurer's make, and that building an entire party of characters to reflect that is often a recipe for disaster in Society games. Especially since Society adventures rarely focus on problem solving or heavy roleplaying, but rather on deadly combat.
Very few of my characters in PFS reflect the true Pathfinder spirit, on account of this. I wish there was an official mechanism that allowed you to work with the Pathfinders, but not for them. It would make my characters a bit more believable.
I just dont understand why they keep publishing the chronicles
Honestly? The in-game chronicles are actually one of the things I really like about the Pathfinders. I just really like the idea of PCs being inspired by childhood readings of the Golarion equivalent of "There and Back Again."
In fact, I think the chronicles are an opportunity to skew the Society away from the "global force for good" and toward the "ego-based force for self-promotion." Under this model, the average Pathfinder is out to become famous for his daring adventures, and aligns with the Society simply because they have the best publishing options.
Pathfinders, then, are to altruistic adventurers what SAG actors are to independent film stars.
Honestly? The in-game chronicles are actually one of the things I really like about the Pathfinders. I just really like the idea of PCs being inspired by childhood readings of the Golarion equivalent of "There and Back Again."
In my mind it works as a reason for individual pathfinders to get involved - I dont think the decemvirate are getting much out of it though.
In fact, I think the chronicles are an opportunity to skew the Society away from the "global force for good" and toward the "ego-based force for self-promotion." Under this model, the average Pathfinder is out to become famous for his daring adventures, and aligns with the Society simply because they have the best publishing options.
Maybe it's tough to get a book deal in Golarion - seems flimsy to me though. Those individuals out looking for fame could do better than surrendering their intellectual product to a bunch of nameless puppet masters, imo.
|
Pathfinders are a plot device for organized play, and exist for no other reason. Otherwise, they can be ignored.
That's my opinion as well. They aren't relevant in any of the APs I've played (in fact, I don't think they've been *mentioned* in any of the APs I've played!).
They are a useful tool for Organized Play. But in home games, they are only as prevalent as you choose to make them.
I'm not terribly interested in them, so I haven't used them, but I don't find them even ten percent as annoying or treacly as the friggin' Harpers.
I personally blame Erik Mona for all this.
I personally blame Erik Mona for all this.
And everything else too, why not?
I personally blame Erik Mona for all this.And everything else too, why not?
I know I do.
Honestly? The in-game chronicles are actually one of the things I really like about the Pathfinders. I just really like the idea of PCs being inspired by childhood readings of the Golarion equivalent of "There and Back Again."
In my mind it works as a reason for individual pathfinders to get involved - I dont think the decemvirate are getting much out of it though.
Actually, that's exactly what they get: new adventurers. With the Chronicles being both "rare" and "leaking" (the latter of which I'm suspicious of - I suspect it's a clever marketing ploy) they are taken as far more valuable than the little-books-printed-by-incarcerated/enslaved-criminals they really are. This, in turn, fuels and inspires new adventurers to join the society to get their name published and become rich and famous.
Plus, this is pretty much the exact way the organization got started. When the original adventurers of the club used to egg each other on with their stories, it inspired them to go do more. This is exactly what the chronicles do, now that said "club" is far too large for one building, even the Grand Lodge in Absolom.
The final thing that they Decemvirate gains from the leaking books? Fame for the organization. With the Chronicles leaking out into the public, suddenly the Pathfinder Society is a) famous, b) popular, c) well-received. Certainly it's got it's opponents, but often enough it's fame (and good reception elsewhere) is able to open doors that'd otherwise be shut to just a bunch of adventurers. It'd be like a famous movie star visiting a small conservative town. Said star might have values that go very strongly against the town's, but he'd be welcomed because, well, he's famous, and, regardless of what the mayor thinks of him, personally, it's good for the town's economy. All of this adds into the prestige of the organization, and even their neutral stance in all things helps them out.
Of course, if said star were to try and stop a war... well, that ain't gonna happen. Prestige can only take you so far. But it does allow you to pass through "enemy" lines. Example: Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie Red Heat. Now, he'd be watched carefully, of course, but the fact is, because he's famous, he was allowed to cross (and film!) in "enemy" territory. Same deal.
In fact, I think the chronicles are an opportunity to skew the Society away from the "global force for good" and toward the "ego-based force for self-promotion." Under this model, the average Pathfinder is out to become famous for his daring adventures, and aligns with the Society simply because they have the best publishing options.
Maybe it's tough to get a book deal in Golarion - seems flimsy to me though. Those individuals out looking for fame could do better than surrendering their intellectual product to a bunch of nameless puppet masters, imo.
Again, the Decemvirate might be puppet masters, but they're hopelessly distant ones. It would be like me being upset that by joining the military I'd be under the command of a general who worked in a secretive branch of government. Yes, they exist, and I'll have to take orders from them, but I'm going to be far more concerned with my immediate superiors, or even with their far more visible superiors instead.
Also, the Decemvirate, while shadowy and puppet-mastery... really isn't public knowledge. MOST people don't even really know about them or how the Society works at all, from what I can tell.
Added to that: they rule with an exceedingly light hand. They let their Pathfinders get away with much... all with the purpose of broadening the society as a whole.
So, again, I can see how the concept isn't for everyone. BUT! I can also see how it works.
Also, I might be setting myself up for hate here, but was I the only one who didn't hate the Harpers?
(To Clarify: there were, of course, lots of Harpers I've hated, but there have been far more that I've liked)
The thing you have to remember is that publishing means a half dozen hand written copies. There isn't a printing press that spits out 100,000 copies. So even is some accounts are leaked, a copy is still very rare. Most access is going to be limited to Pathfnders in the Society's library.
And who says everything that is reported ends up in a Chronicle? I am certain some secrets are kept at the upper levels.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
The scenarios in the Pathfinder Society organized play environment have has PCs march into active, occupied temples and steal sacred relics, with the expectation that the priests there might not appreciate it, and the PCs should feel free to kill them if they try to protest.
Granted, this was against an evil-aligned shrine, but the Society is neutal about such things.
It might be fun to write the corresponding adventure, where the Venture Captains send some agents out to steal a relic from a church in Lastwall, authorized to use whatever force they deem appropriate, in order to take the Holy Whatever back to the vaults in Absalom.
The thing you have to remember is that publishing means a half dozen hand written copies. There isn't a printing press that spits out 100,000 copies. So even is some accounts are leaked, a copy is still very rare.
Until someone gets a copy and decides to mass print it with his press.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I guess my intuition is different from the rest of the world's. Nonetheless, every time the Pathfinder organisation comes up it reminds me that I'm reading about a campaign setting designed for a game, rather than reading about a fantasy world, which is what I get from most Pathfinder supplements.
I struggle to accept the notion of world-spanning organisations in a balkanised fantasy environment at any level but can hand-wave it in the interests of manageability and campaign world cohesion. (The Red Mantis is another 'unrealistic' organisation in my mind - I find them thematically consistent though so can just gloss over the fact that they exist with such seemingly far-reaching power and influence).
The Pathfinder organisation seems contradictory to me - if it had 'noble purpose' or was devoted to some God of knowledge/lore/whatever then the whole thing would make more sense to me. As it is, it feels to me like it's trying to fill just a tad too many roles within the campaign world.
|
The Pathfinder organisation seems contradictory to me - if it had 'noble purpose' or was devoted to some God of knowledge/lore/whatever then the whole thing would make more sense to me. As it is, it feels to me like it's trying to fill just a tad too many roles within the campaign world.
Agreed.
Since my post there's been a lot of posters saying the Society overall is true neutral instead of good aligned.How would this work in real life? I’m from Australia. Suddenly, an organisation that started in Geneva is buying land in every Australian capital city to be a base of operations for some of the world’s most powerful agents from every nation, with murky guidelines and discipline practices. Also they're being torn apart from within. And they’re setting this up to do what? Take artifacts of great magical or historical importance out of Australia. Back to Geneva. To sell.
That doesn’t sound like a deal any self-respecting nation would accept unless they get something on their end, such as something like an insurance policy if the supernatural world goes haywire and those powerful individual agents are downright required to help the nation out of it’s problems.
You can’t argue that the nation gets a share of the profit of sales of artifacts because this forgets that some nations have more artifacts than others, and if the artefact is in your nation, technically, that artefact belongs 100% to the nation. Not 10% as it stands with 10 factions.
To enhance believability, I think the only reason why nations would endure the Pathfinder Society would be to give them some very nasty missions from time to time to make the deal worth it.
It's integral to the PFS campaign. But if you're not playing PFS, then you can ignore it completely.
That's pretty much my solution. Its there for backstory and some NPC motivationi and fun for Paizo but doesn't make much of an appearance in my home campaign. I guess I agree with the OP to some extent. But I am probably overly gunshy. I don't need another "Harpers." It just gets so James Bond. No thanks. So I downplay it in my campaigns at home. And I don't like "lodges."
Pathfinders = Travellers Aid Society
Pathfinders = Travellers Aid Society
Hmmm. Not quite. TAS always seemed more passive to me. Pathfinders are out there doing things. Now, if you are saying treat Pathfinders like TAS I can buy that. But I'm not sure that is how they are envisioned.
Hmmm. Not quite. TAS always seemed more passive to me. Pathfinders are out there doing things. Now, if you are saying treat Pathfinders like TAS I can buy that. But I'm not sure that is how they are envisioned.
I don't think the world of Golarion has the right things it would need to be aware of and counteract a threat, if the Pathfinders were truly one. There's no rapid flow of information across the civilized areas, and most people can just eschew roads in favor of wilderness, so their borders mean almost nothing. If you're a fantasy world, you're going to have adventurers. While they cause a lot of trouble, it may be better than the alternative (what do adventurers do when there's nothing to adventure? just cause trouble).
The simple fact that a lot of these nations have wildly unexplored areas (sometimes filled with monsters and within walking distance of established settlements) suggests that they don't have the time and money to explore and excise these dangers. Indeed most of the nations seem to be trying their best to stay afloat, keep their lands being encroached on by neighbors and so forth. I think if anything they would promote it (adventures get the job done, and if they die it's no skin off the king's back).
I think the only thing that might be formed in reaction to these explorers wold probably be some sort of customs agency. Cause no nation would want valuable artifacts that they could use to be taken and stored someplace else, perhaps to be used against them one day, or at least not be used by them when they need it. Anyways I have to imagine a country like Cheliax has something like that set up, but I couldn't say about the others.
Someone mentioned the Darklight Sisterhood above, and I checked it out on the wiki, and they're definitely a nice idea, complimenting the existence of the Pathfinders well.
|
Pathfinders are a plot device for organized play, and exist for no other reason. Otherwise, they can be ignored.Not true.
The Pathfinder Society existed from the very start, years before both the Pathfinder RPG and the Pathfinder Society Org Play program came along. They have an article in Pathifnder AP #1, after all.
Whether or not they work for anyone's game is up to each individual person. Golarion certainly functions fine without the Pathfinder Society. But that said... they don't have to be allies for your PCs. If you don't like them, it's actually quite easy to set them up as bad guys; the society itself is neither good nor evil, after all. If you don't like them, set them us as villains and let your PCs take them apart! :-)
I suppose the Pathfinders inspirations were guys like Giovanni Belzoni and Richard Francis Burton.
A mix between archaeologists, charlatans and tomb robbers.
I have a similar antipathy, though in my case it extends to any group with continent spanning influence - magic changes everything, of course, but nonetheless these far flung, cohesive groups just dont ring true to my particular view of 'realistic fantasy'.
Cohesive? They don't seem to be cohesive at all, every guy has a individual goal.
Printing the books make you money, fame and get financing for the next project.
It also always struck me as odd that the pathfinders would publish these chronicles. It doesnt seem like a huge leap to form the view that keeping the secrets uncovered by their agents would be better for the organisation than making them more widely available. I can understand a group forming to go tomb-robbing, lost city exploring and ancient lore unearthing - I dont see what their motivation is for making that information widely available (at least without assuming they're benevolent, serving to a 'god of knowledge' or somesuch).
And the member were in cutthoat competition about who really found the Nile springs or Lake Victoria.
That is how I see the Pathfinder Society.
At least they're not all good-aligned.
They're better than the Harpers.
A lot of Harpers were neutral.
One of the leader was LN and got to the point of helping recover some artifact for the high priest of Bane.|
|
Also, I might be setting myself up for hate here, but was I the only one who didn't hate the Harpers?
My impression is that people hate a concept they have created of the Harpers, but very few of them has really read how they worked and what were their interest by FR canon.
"Cormir is taking over Tilverton, let's thwart the LG kingdom plains." isn't exactly "we are goodly good".
A good percentage of the organization were druids and that was as far back as 1st edition AD&D where the druids were True neutral.
Most people has read the novels about the good harpers character (or even those about the neutral characters fighting evils plots) and decided they were only good doers, while the main goal of the organization (at least officially) was to keep some level of balance between big kingdoms and small dales.
They were a non-evil organization, not a exclusively good guys one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Since "pathfinder" is "Pfadfinder" in German, which is the official translation for "boy scouts" in Germany, I always compared pathfinders in Golarion to Huey, Dewey, and Louie ... now, wait ...
Also, I might be setting myself up for hate here, but was I the only one who didn't hate the Harpers?My impression is that people hate a concept they have created of the Harpers, but very few of them has really read how they worked and what were their interest by FR canon.
As I noted before, I'm not crazy about any powerful world-spanning conspiracies in my fantasy games.
Since "pathfinder" is "Pfadfinder" in German, which is the official translation for "boy scouts" in Germany, I always compared pathfinders in Golarion to Huey, Dewey, and Louie ... now, wait ...
That's exactly what the Pathfinder Society needs: a Junior Woodchuck faction.
The compariso to the Royal Geographical Society makes me want to play a pathfinder in the style of Imaginary Polar Expedition. Why risk your life traveling to dangerous locales when you can hang out in your villa for a few months, buy some trinkets from the market and "return" with takes of adventure?
Yeah, never gave much thought to these guys.
They initially reminded me of the group of adventurer high-society buffoons from some old Forgotten Realms serial novel where this guy goes to Chult and fights some cannibal goblins and some mage with stone hands.
Now they remind me of the Pokemon League.
Pathfinders = Travellers Aid SocietyHmmm. Not quite. TAS always seemed more passive to me. Pathfinders are out there doing things. Now, if you are saying treat Pathfinders like TAS I can buy that. But I'm not sure that is how they are envisioned.
That's pretty much what I meant Clark..a lodge being a place to rest resupply and recuperate most of the time.
|
|
I suppose the Pathfinders inspirations were guys like Giovanni Belzoni and Richard Francis Burton.
A mix between archaeologists, charlatans and tomb robbers.snip... Royal Geographical Society... snip...
This has always been my view as well. I guess that not everyone has that influence in the stuff they have read.
|
I have a similar antipathy, though in my case it extends to any group with continent spanning influence - magic changes everything, of course, but nonetheless these far flung, cohesive groups just dont ring true to my particular view of 'realistic fantasy'.
I think you're perceiving them as way more organized than is the case presented in material to date. The organization appears to be mostly on the individual lodge level (most of which even a veteran pathfinder may not be aware of). With only periodic reports being sent to the main lodge in Absalom (one of the very few to openly announce its presence). The decemvirate also appear to take a very hands off method of leadership. Preferring to nudge individual venture-captains into directions that they would go down anyway they lead with a very soft hand (when they do at all).
It also always struck me as odd that the pathfinders would publish these chronicles. It doesnt seem like a huge leap to form the view that keeping the secrets uncovered by their agents would be better for the organisation than making them more widely available. I can understand a group forming to go tomb-robbing, lost city exploring and ancient lore unearthing - I dont see what their motivation is for making that information widely available (at least without assuming they're benevolent, serving to a 'god of knowledge' or somesuch).
This is acutally a good point. No one know who the decemvirite are yet alone what their goals are. Lets think about what we do know.
- They publish periodic journals detailing information about a large variety of topics. This may or may not be complete but is sufficiently accurate that they are a respected resource.
- Their identity is secret, but was not always so. After a presumably failed coup they went into hiding.
- Any item of significant power is desirable.
- Agents are expendable.
- Unknown lore and knowledge is desirable.
- They have been playing this game for a long time (more than 400 years per ISWG timeline) .
- There is a distinct lack of nationalism (at least not obviously among the leadership).
This information tells us very little. Assuming that there is an end goal the society leaders might be members of a cult Nethis or Aroden are resealable choices if this is the case as both churches advocate the advancement of all people. Perhaps they are specific thing and slowing pushing their venture-captins in directions to find this thing. I don't like this option as much but if you wanted to riff on the seven part staff thingamabob it might be interesting. This would imply a staggering amount of dedication and / or very long lifespans for the leadership. Or quite possibly any original plan has been forgotten or changed dramatically.
This has always been my view as well. I guess that not everyone has that influence in the stuff they have read.
I suppose the Pathfinders inspirations were guys like Giovanni Belzoni and Richard Francis Burton.
A mix between archaeologists, charlatans and tomb robbers.snip... Royal Geographical Society... snip...
On the contrary. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd probably like the Pathfinders better if they were like the Royal Geographical Society (a national fellowship for likeminded individuals to share knowledge) instead of an international paramilitary controlled by a shadowy junta, with its own training camps and footsoldiers, as described in Seekers of Secrets, etc.