I really like the Cthulu mythos. I really like the themes, the writing style, the horror, etc. I like Lovecraftian themes in my rpgs. But after the Denizens of Leng in Rise of the Runelords, Legacy of Fire, Carrion Hill the module, and now Carrion Hill in Carrion Crown, I feel like the theme has been over played. Does anyone else feel like this? What other themes would you like to see? Have I gone mad?
I'm personally not a fan of the theme. Heresy, right?
I have not run my players through it yet, but I have already bought the first two parts of Kingmaker (bought the 2nd one first, for the kingdom building stuff). I really like the way it plots things out, very open, and very outdoorsy. I would like to see more wilderness stuff along those lines, with an infinitesimal addition of fey undertones.
I don't really think Lovecraft has a place in a setting that isn't Earth circa 1900-2000. But that's just me.
I actually want more Lovecraftian stuff for Pathfinder. They mention Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, Shub-Niggurath, and Yog-Sothoth in the new edition of the Guide to the Inner Sea Campaign setting, along with a paragraph or two on the "Great Old Ones". Its pretty cool. Long live the Mythos!
Same here. More Lovecraft is good.
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I actually want more Lovecraftian stuff for Pathfinder. They mention Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, Shub-Niggurath, and Yog-Sothoth in the new edition of the Guide to the Inner Sea Campaign setting, along with a paragraph or two on the "Great Old Ones". Its pretty cool. Long live the Mythos!Same here. More Lovecraft is good.
Yup. The more Lovecraft the better. Everything is better with a pinch of Cthulhu Mythos.
I love Lovecraft in my games
I don't really think Lovecraft has a place in a setting that isn't Earth circa 1900-2000. But that's just me.Have you seen Cuthullutech? /cries.
I know, it's the best thing ever. I weep tears of joy as well.
I really like the Cthulu mythos. I really like the themes, the writing style, the horror, etc. I like Lovecraftian themes in my rpgs. But after the Denizens of Leng in Rise of the Runelords, Legacy of Fire, Carrion Hill the module, and now Carrion Hill in Carrion Crown, I feel like the theme has been over played. Does anyone else feel like this? What other themes would you like to see? Have I gone mad?
I find myself skimming over the lovecrafty bits somewhat. Like you, I like them, but I like other things too. I also think I'm not very good at mixing genres - my main objection with lovecraftian monsters in Golarion is that the cosmic hopelessness inherent in the Cthulhu stuff doesnt mesh well (imo) with the high fantasy style of pathfinder. Lovecraft monsters as a BBEG-with-tentacles cheapens the concept and I struggle to portray statted up Cthulhuesque monsters in the 'outside the rules of reality' way I consider they should be.
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I don't really think Lovecraft has a place in a setting that isn't Earth circa 1900-2000. But that's just me.Why should the Mythos be restricted to an insignificant little orb in an insignificant little galaxy during such a short little time span?
Exactly. "The Old Ones were, The Old Ones are, The Old Ones shall be"
I find myself skimming over the lovecrafty bits too. Like you, I like them, but I like other things too. I also think I'm not very good at mixing genres - my main objection with lovecraftian monsters in Golarion is that the cosmic hopelessness inherent in the Cthulhu stuff doesnt mesh well (imo) with the high fantasy style of pathfinder. Lovecraft monsters as a BBEG-with-tentacles cheapens the concept and I struggle to portray statted up Cthulhuesque monsters in the 'outside the rules of reality' way I consider they should be.
Tell that to August Derleth and most of the others who've attempted to follow in Lovecraft's footsteps... ;-)
Cheers, JohnH / Wanda
I'm certainly not sick of Pathcraft/Lovefinder. Heck, I went out and bought Realms of Crawling Chaos by Dan Procter & Michael Curtis so that I could have more Yogsothery in my old school games as well.
I don't really think Lovecraft has a place in a setting that isn't Earth circa 1900-2000. But that's just me.
R.E. Howard would have so disagreed with you! ;)
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I for one welcome our ancient and omnipotent masters from beyond the stars!
Everything's better with Cthulhu.
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Have not yet touched Carrion Crown, but I am well pleased with the treatment of Lovecraft-related materials in PF and Golarion. It can be played up or down as preferred, and never do I feel that someone has shoehorned in gaslight and atavism just to emulate the CoC rpg.
It is worth noting that Lovecraft, as an author, cheated a bit in his writing by employing unreliable, unstable and nervous narrators. When Howard handles the same subject matter, often Conan is perplexed and worried by the horrors out there but not driven to the brink by insane revelations. Bearing this in mind saves a lot of effort in discussing the tone of Lovecraft-themed stories and chronicles; when my group wants that 'unstable' feeling they know now they have to make characters with triggers and weaknesses, people with real potential to break down. It's just as valid to do a story that involves the Mythos <i>and</i> PCs more inclined to grab their axes and torches without a second thought, but it won't have the same tone as one of HP Lovecraft's stories.
As somebody who isn't into Cthulhu at all, I don't care one way or another, as long as its done in moderation and fleshes out the game/setting rather than trying to over take it.
I'm sure there is a sizeable group who doesn't like the semi-scifi conent that comes from the Mana Wastes, Nex, etc, but again as long as it makes my games better, I have no problems with it.
Same could be said for the gothic/horror one gets with Geb/Nidal, or the abundence of slavery, or any number of subjects or play styles that could rub some people the wrong way.
What's nice is if you don't like it, don't use it. I have a character in a PbP that's from Qadira and whose backstory won't really include slavery, cuz that's not something I really like in my games. Same can be said for the Old Gods/Cults
I'm certainly not sick of Pathcraft/Lovefinder. Heck, I went out and bought Realms of Crawling Chaos by Dan Procter & Michael Curtis so that I could have more Yogsothery in my old school games as well.Never heard of that title, is it rules stuff or more ideas on adding it to a fantasy type game?
Both.
Lovecraftian elements in the world should be rare, I think the exposure is just about right in Golarion. If any type of creatures is it's demons and devils.
I really like the Cthulu mythos. I really like the themes, the writing style, the horror, etc. I like Lovecraftian themes in my rpgs. But after the Denizens of Leng in Rise of the Runelords, Legacy of Fire, Carrion Hill the module, and now Carrion Hill in Carrion Crown, I feel like the theme has been over played. Does anyone else feel like this? What other themes would you like to see? Have I gone mad?
Not nearly as overplayed as Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds, Giants, need I go on?
I really like the Cthulu mythos. I really like the themes, the writing style, the horror, etc. I like Lovecraftian themes in my rpgs. But after the Denizens of Leng in Rise of the Runelords, Legacy of Fire, Carrion Hill the module, and now Carrion Hill in Carrion Crown, I feel like the theme has been over played. Does anyone else feel like this?
I like Lovecraft's short stories, but I'm not crazy about shoehorning them into Pathfinder. It gives things kind of an Easter eggy, mishmash feel (IMO), as if there could be a country with Prince Adam, Orko and Man-at-Arms just over the horizon, and dudes who are bad enough to save the president in the next dungeon.
Every one has brought up lots of good points. Myself, well I have not used elements of H.P. Lovecrafts Call of Cthulhu in my current game.. But that does not mean I could not. If there is something in a game you do not want CHANGE IT!
Just speaking for myself I grew up reading the various meterial in high school and has fun using it in 1st edition games, could I do it know. Sure. But would it be the same, no.
Oh and Cthulhutech is good but Cthonian Stars should receive some merit as well.
Long live lovecraft been playing cthulu since the beginning and love the horror genre,If its played right.
I would love to see an AP with a Great Old One as the main baddie. Something along the lines of Masks of Nyarlathotep in Golarion would make me very happy.
I would love to see an AP with a Great Old One as the main baddie
I'm contemplating something along those lines for an extension of Carrion Crown, should my pc's survive the AP. . .
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I'm not a fan of Lovecraft in Golarion.
It is perhaps the only element of the world that irks me. I firmly believe that one of the pillars of Lovecraftian horror was the concept of feeble, defenceless humanity in face of cosmic-scale threat. The protagonist has his wits and a revolver against horrors from beyond the stars. And most of the time it ends badly for the intrepid human.
Now, in Pathfinder the protagonists are superhuman heroes who can shoot a longbow five times in six seconds, launch fireballs and create demiplanes. A Hound of Tindalos isn't an irrepressible, ominous threat which you run from, it's a CR 9 baddie who gets two-rounded by an equivalent adventuring party. This kills much of Lovecraft's ideas, since the inherent helplessness of '20s investigators is replaced by over-the-top power of D&D characters. The mere fact that raise dead is readily available removes the whole "ohmygodimgonnadieimgonnadie" vibe entirely.
There are some elements that fit far better, such as the whole Dreamlands angle. And supernatural horror in high-power environment can be done right (Werewolf: Apocalypse and Cthulhutech are good examples), it just doesn't fit with D&D.
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A CR9 monster is very scrary to a 3rd level character. And Conan often faced off against such horrors. There are a grand majority of materials in Golarion don't deal with Mythos elements at all, all those that do are thematically respectful of the source material. Tone it down if you don't like it turn it up if you do.
For the record my Golarion has robots. To each their own.
I'm not a fan of Lovecraft in Golarion.
There are some elements that fit far better, such as the whole Dreamlands angle. And supernatural horror in high-power environment can be done right (Werewolf: Apocalypse and Cthulhutech are good examples), it just doesn't fit with D&D.
Its not the system its the way the adventure is written - From Shore to Sea has to be one of the best "Lovecraftian" adventures written for Pathfinder. It has all the themes and it paces the adventure so it satisfies both those who like the slow pealing back of horror mixed with the right amount of combat to keep the action junkies happy.
Its not the system its the way the adventure is written - From Shore to Sea has to be one of the best "Lovecraftian" adventures written for Pathfinder.
Just to clarify -- I'm not against Lovecraftian elements, I'm just a little turned off by wholesale lifting from Lovecraft. It's like adding characters literally named "Gerard de Villefort", "Reginald Front-de-Boeuf" and "Rupert of Hentzau" to Golarion; those are all interesting characters, but using those exact names and descriptions carries specific baggage that isn't necessarily D&Dish. YMMV, of course.
Its not the system its the way the adventure is written - From Shore to Sea has to be one of the best "Lovecraftian" adventures written for Pathfinder.Just to clarify -- I'm not against Lovecraftian elements, I'm just a little turned off by wholesale lifting from Lovecraft. It's like adding characters literally named "Gerard de Villefort", "Reginald Front-de-Boeuf" and "Rupert of Hentzau" to Golarion; those are all interesting characters, but using those exact names and descriptions carries specific baggage that isn't necessarily D&Dish. YMMV, of course.
MMDV - D&D is a melding of so many elements and it has evolved, borrowed, and outright stolen from hundreds of different sources including the bible, Howard, Moorcock, Tolken, and John Wyndham (Im looking at you Tri-flower frond). Some times D&D's theft of concepts have been so cheesy it made me want to claw my eyes out sometimes it was good cheese that made the game fun.
Pathfinder is not D&D it is its own game it just uses the D20 system. It is forging its own mythology and it is a kitchen sink mythology that caters to all tastes. The Devs have said over and over again use the stuff that makes you happy and drop anything that doesn't fit into your game I am happy with that philosophy.
The main problem is that Golarion is so new that not all of the kitchen sink is available.
I'm not a fan of Lovecraft in Golarion.
What doesn't work at your table works just fine at others. Golarion as a world has settings for every campaign style and type, and quite frankly I prefer it that way.
I've read some lovecraft, and i'm not a big fan. As such I hope they keep the refrences small and in the background. I'm not a fan of 'sci-fi/space aliens in fantasy games. Didn't want anything to do with Spacejammer... don't like it here.
to Clarify,
1) Unspeakable horror monsters that are completly new and unknown... = Good!
2) Space squid from beyond the stars... = bad.
I've read some lovecraft, and i'm not a big fan. As such I hope they keep the refrences small and in the background. I'm not a fan of 'sci-fi/space aliens in fantasy games. Didn't want anything to do with Spacejammer... don't like it here.
to Clarify,
1) Unspeakable horror monsters that are completly new and unknown... = Good!
2) Space squid from beyond the stars... = bad.
I don't think Paizo's lovecraft elements have anything to do with scifi space aliens, quite the contrary. Carrion Hill is a perfect example of this.
In fact, i think Paizo should do an underwater AP focuing on Old Ones and Aboleth (one of many cthuluish monsters). There's a reason why the Night Below is considered by some to be one of their favorite campaign.
I've read some lovecraft, and i'm not a big fan. As such I hope they keep the refrences small and in the background. I'm not a fan of 'sci-fi/space aliens in fantasy games. Didn't want anything to do with Spacejammer... don't like it here.
to Clarify,
1) Unspeakable horror monsters that are completly new and unknown... = Good!
2) Space squid from beyond the stars... = bad.
Just because they develop an option doesn't mandate that you use it in your campaign. A ton of options pruned to taste by the GM is better for everyone than a world of goblins and orcs and. . .nothing else -.-
I'm a Lovecraft fanboy. I read 'Colour Out of Space' when I was nine or so years old (who puts a book with that story in the kids section of a library alongside relatively mundane ghost stories?). I played so much Cthulhumud in college (and occasionally still play there).
I adore cosmic horror. But... it has its place, and there are times when it doesn't fit into something and the trick is knowing how to judiciously use it without overexposure. I'm pretty happy with Golarion not having crossed that line yet, and I'm guilty in one upcoming book of using some Lovecraftian atmosphere elements (without going overtly mythos).
In fact, i think Paizo should do an underwater AP focuing on Old Ones and Aboleth (one of many cthuluish monsters). There's a reason why the Night Below is considered by some to be one of their favorite campaign.
Have you read From Shore to Sea? And the related supplement Sunken Empires?
Not a full AP, but some great stuff.