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Little rule gem we never noticed before in our group, p562 of the core rulebook says weapons with Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent can overcome certain DR types. +3 overcomes cold iron/silver, +4 adamantaine and +5 alignment based.
Does a +1 Keen Flaming Longsword overcome cold iron/silver DR? Or is it only a +3 Longsword
Little rule gem we never noticed before in our group, p562 of the core rulebook says weapons with Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent can overcome certain DR types. +3 overcomes cold iron/silver, +4 adamantaine and +5 alignment based.
Does a +1 Keen Flaming Longsword overcome cold iron/silver DR? Or is it only a +3 Longsword
Only actual enhancement bonus counts, so only the +3 longsword. It's certainly a good place for a house rule, though.
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I hate this rule. Also the that can not do fire and cold at the same time.
I hate this rule. Also the that can not do fire and cold at the same time.
An icy, flaming weapon would do both fire and cold at once. And as I said, it's a very easy rule to houserule, without any serious repercussions. Even if you don't, it's still far better than 3.5, where you had to have the right type of weapon, and had no other way to bypass.
I hate this rule.
You hate that a +3 longsword is moderately useful now?
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Little rule gem we never noticed before in our group, p562 of the core rulebook says weapons with Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent can overcome certain DR types. +3 overcomes cold iron/silver, +4 adamantaine and +5 alignment based.
Does a +1 Keen Flaming Longsword overcome cold iron/silver DR? Or is it only a +3 Longsword
As a GM I would rule that it is the overall ability of the sword, not the numerical +X in front of the sword that defeats DR.
It makes the most sense IMO, because when I first think of the +X I think ok it makes it sharper thus easier to bypass stuff, up until you see the alignment bypass, it's the aligment bypass that makes me rule the overall power of the weapon instead. Since alignment doesn't make you harder/tougher/etc. It just makes you wierd.
I love this ruling. It makes actual enhancement bonus worthwhile again. I believe it was one of Monte Cook's 3.5 houserules before it was incorporated into Pathfinder.
Ok, Monte's version is slightly different. I like his addition that bypassing with two methods gives +2 damage.
Last session one of my players informed me that Mithral weapons now count as silver weapons against DR.
You learn something every day :)
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Personally I don't like this, as I feel it makes most DR as irrelevant as DR/magic when you reach higher levels. And it's not as if the high-level melee characters would be totally crippled by subtracting 10-15 points off their strikes either.
I realize that many others like the change though :)
I've always hated the "golf bag" of weapons. There comes a point it's just a headache to keep track of rather than an interesting monster attribute. This way it keeps DR relevant until the higher levels, at which point it becomes moot anyway in most games, just harder to keep track of.
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Would suggest, but it is not specified. Maybe it's an oversight by the devs...maybe they thought that people will use common sense on this one or maybe they intended to use it like this...i mean after all an axiomatic, holu longsword deals additional 4d6+4 points of damage and adds +4 to the attack roll agains chaotic and evil creatures...
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I think the rule was put in place to make actual enhancement bonus matter/worthwhile... Though it has the ancillary effect of making GMW even better than it was before.
I think the rule was put in place to make actual enhancement bonus matter/worthwhile... Though it has the ancillary effect of making GMW even better than it was before.
GMW specifically says it doesn't help against DR.
I think the rule was put in place to make actual enhancement bonus matter/worthwhile... Though it has the ancillary effect of making GMW even better than it was before.GMW specifically says it doesn't help against DR.
Man you are a buzzkill. :D
Man you are a buzzkill. :D
I run a level 16 game, these things come up.
What annoys me is that natural weapons rarely bypass DR (except alignment based for outsiders ) so my binder's DR/magic is surprisingly effective against a lot of monsters. Unless I missed a rule somewhere.
Wow, it's like a throwback to 2nd edition AD&D.
I remember that. Wow, I am getting old. That phrase "could only be hurt by ..." was the bane of several campaigns I ran back in the 90's.
Just to be clear, the spell greater magic weapon overcomes DR/magic, but not special DRs like silver or cold iron.
SRD wrote:
"This bonus does not allow a weapon to bypass damage reduction aside from magic."
Creature with DR/magic bypasses DR/magic...creature with e.g law subtype bypasses DR/law...with it's natural weapons...also magic fang...
Yes, but something like a Glaberazu doesn't have DR/magic. I can't find anything that says having DR/good allows you to bypass DR/magic.
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It's a Monte Cook rule from his Book of Might series.
I love it.
3.0 was "hello, I'm a CR 12 monster with DR 40/+3, you're swinging a +2 flaming broadsword? Well, sucks to be you."
3.5 was "hello, is there any point in magic weapons above +1?"
PF makes the +bonus count again without making it a binary requirement to actually scratch something.
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No..creature with specific subtypes overcome certain DRs. Let's take glabrezu as en example...
Glabrezu has chaotic and evil subtypes (the ones relevant to this discussion at the moment)...which means that it's natural attacks overcome DR/chaos and DR/evil...pretty much good outsiders...on the other hand...a solar has lawful and good subtypes, if he for some reason decided to take improved unarmed strike and fight the glabrezu without a weapon, he would overcome it's DR 10/good because it has a good sutype.
No..creature with specific subtypes overcome certain DRs. Let's take glabrezu as en example...
Glabrezu has chaotic and evil subtypes (the ones relevant to this discussion at the moment)...which means that it's natural attacks overcome DR/chaos and DR/evil...pretty much good outsiders...on the other hand...a solar has lawful and good subtypes, if he for some reason decided to take improved unarmed strike and fight the glabrezu without a weapon, he would overcome it's DR 10/good because it has a good sutype.
Right. My point is that DR/magic is useless on a high level monster because after level 3 or so everyone in a party has a magic item.
DR/magic is surprisingly effective at high levels for PCs because many monsters have DR/alignment or DR/material but do not actually bypass DR/magic on their own.
This is one of my favourite changes in pathfinder from 3.5 rules. Sadly though, none of the GM's I play with currently allow this :(
No..creature with specific subtypes overcome certain DRs. Let's take glabrezu as en example...
Glabrezu has chaotic and evil subtypes (the ones relevant to this discussion at the moment)...which means that it's natural attacks overcome DR/chaos and DR/evil...pretty much good outsiders...on the other hand...a solar has lawful and good subtypes, if he for some reason decided to take improved unarmed strike and fight the glabrezu without a weapon, he would overcome it's DR 10/good because it has a good sutype.
Right. My point is that DR/magic is useless on a high level monster because after level 3 or so everyone in a party has a magic item.
DR/magic is surprisingly effective at high levels for PCs because many monsters have DR/alignment or DR/material but do not actually bypass DR/magic on their own.
On the other hand, it's much easier for the monsters to get DR/magic than the PCs.
Yeah I don't mind the fact that the invulnerable armor ability is now actually moderately useful instead of simply being a complete waste of everything decent.
I understand that occasionally the players should have to worry about their DR being ineffective, but honestly doing it to them on a regular basis (especially if it is a class feature) is just as bad as the enemy always having the perfect counter for any other tactic (oh this guy has protection from you up too, and this guy has spell turning, and all these monsters suddenly have spell penetration, and that all these monsters are immune to charm effects cause I said so...).
8 year necro.
And the rule in mythic adventures is specifically a change to the core rule version and isn’t in the CRB or Bestiary details on DR, for use in mythic games.
2. The table notes "Weapon Enhancement
Bonus Equivalent." What else would they be referring to with the word equivalent, particularly when considering point one.3. I have seen some argue no, because of a clause (I don't have handy) that the total enhancement bonus is counted for pricing, but not for attack and damage. The flaw here is that this argument has nothing to do with the issue at hand; neither attack or damage modifiers are being considered in if a weapon with the equivalent of a +3 bonus can overcome DR.
You've seen that argument because it's the right argument. Here's the bit from overcoming DR:
Damage Reduction may be overcome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment.
Note that it says enhancement bonus, not enhancement bonus equivalent.
Meanwhile, the bit on magic weapon enhancement bonuses:
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
So clearly, the enhancement bonus is distinct from special ability bonus equivalents, which are used to determine the market value of the weapon and pretty much nothing else.
The bit on DR/epic was a revision because DR/epic used to require a +6 enhancement bonus in D&D 3e, something available via epic rules but never added to PF. And in the end, the PF translation made it much weaker.
Are you going through the forums in chronological order or something?
Man you are a buzzkill. :DI think the rule was put in place to make actual enhancement bonus matter/worthwhile... Though it has the ancillary effect of making GMW even better than it was before.GMW specifically says it doesn't help against DR.
I'm here to the rescue. [At least for those searching old threads.]
The spell Rags to Riches *does* increase the enhancement bonus and *does not* have the text GMW has that prevents bypassing DR.
Saved our buts several times.
/cevah