Need a new System for Fantasy Gaming


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I'm looking for a new system to run D&D style fantasy games (for instance running/converting a paizo AP). I'm burnt out on 3E/pathfinder and 4E.

I've checked out Savage Worlds, and I like its relative rulesliteness, but the magic system just isn't evocative enough for me to really want to use in the long term for fantasy.

I've considered checking out Dragonage, but I haven't yet. I'm concerned that it doesn't have enough options to build the classic character archetypes I'm used to with D&D.

I've played and ran a bit of Warhammer 3E, and though I like it, it is a little too setting specific to recreate the feel of D&D.

I've had a look at Castles and Crusades, but I don't think it's quite what I'm looking for.

I'm strongly considering using the FATE system (Starblazers/legends of Anglerre more specifically), but I haven't actually tried to run it yet, and I'm a little worried about how well the magic rules will work in it.

I'd appreciate any suggestions. Ideally I'd like a system that is balanced but still versatile enough to create a wide range of D&D type characters, can do magic in an evocative way without unbalancing the game, and does combat in fairly quickly and simply while still being interesting and exciting. I realize that all that is probably a lot to ask.


I have no experience with the system but I have heard good things about Fantasycraft. My other suggestion would be to take a break from fantasy and run a modern/future game.

That's what I did when I got burned out on fantasy and it was a good decision.


Right now I'm running a Pulp game with Savage Worlds, which I'll likely do for the next little while. However, I'm not burned out on fantasy genrewise. I am feeling more burnt out on D&D systemwise.

Isn't Fantasy Craft basically a d20 system?

ronin wrote:

I have no experience with the system but I have heard good things about Fantasycraft. My other suggestion would be to take a break from fantasy and run a modern/future game.

That's what I did when I got burned out on fantasy and it was a good decision.


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I'm looking for a new system to run D&D style fantasy games (for instance running/converting a paizo AP). I'm burnt out on 3E/pathfinder and 4E.

I've checked out Savage Worlds, and I like its relative rulesliteness, but the magic system just isn't evocative enough for me to really want to use in the long term for fantasy.

I've considered checking out Dragonage, but I haven't yet. I'm concerned that it doesn't have enough options to build the classic character archetypes I'm used to with D&D.

I've played and ran a bit of Warhammer 3E, and though I like it, it is a little too setting specific to recreate the feel of D&D.

I've had a look at Castles and Crusades, but I don't think it's quite what I'm looking for.

I'm strongly considering using the FATE system (Starblazers/legends of Anglerre more specifically), but I haven't actually tried to run it yet, and I'm a little worried about how well the magic rules will work in it.

I'd appreciate any suggestions. Ideally I'd like a system that is balanced but still versatile enough to create a wide range of D&D type characters, can do magic in an evocative way without unbalancing the game, and does combat in fairly quickly and simply while still being interesting and exciting. I realize that all that is probably a lot to ask.

Fantasycraft is d20 but only in essence.Its really a mix of familiar and alien elements.All the things you are looking for can be delivered with it*, but its not exactly rules-lite.

Desolation seems interesting but I havent read the books or played so I cant say with certainty.Its magic is free-form though

GURPS Magic is another toolkit choice.Again the spellsystem is different and interesting

*=the spell system is really different and almost all the basic assumptions of dnd are gone


I almost forgot D6 Fantasy.Well worth a look. You 'll like it

Dark Archive

ronin wrote:

I have no experience with the system but I have heard good things about Fantasycraft. My other suggestion would be to take a break from fantasy and run a modern/future game.

That's what I did when I got burned out on fantasy and it was a good decision.

FantasyCraft is a mighty fine system. One you get the hang of dealing with action dice and campaign qualities, it becomes somewhat addictive. The sliding DCs and monster stats are a GM's dream come true, and it's quite easy to convert pretty much any d20 book you have to FC use.

Just be warned: magic is very different from the usual d20 iterations seen so far (spell slots, spell points, skill checks, no matter what).

I use it for short campaign arcs set in the Conan world - in the Crafty forums you can find some very useful resources - and my players have a blast each time.

Another very good system is the DragonAge one, and with the imminent release of Set#2, the number of options available should become enough to run a hefty campaign without feeling short for variety.
Just be sure to google for the "Esoterica from Thedas" PDFs made by the fan community with a comprehensive Bestiary and some in-depht extra rules (they're obviously free).

Liberty's Edge

I hope to play it soon myself but the few people I know who've played it tell me to take a good look into the Anima: Beyond Fantasy system. I have to admit the style appeals to me.


Have a look at DragonWarriors. Originally published in the 80s it has been recently(ish) reprinted in a hardcover version. Very dark ages europe feel to it.


Hero System with Killer Shrike's magic rules.


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I'm looking for a new system to run D&D style fantasy games (for instance running/converting a paizo AP). I'm burnt out on 3E/pathfinder and 4E.

What specifically has you burnt out?

Grand Lodge

Its not fantasy but you could try changing genres. Dresden Files uses the FATE system and has won a few awards if you like the novels. Again, CoC isnt fantasy but a bit of Call of Cthulhu can shake things up a bit. I could also suggest ShadowRun


I gave up on 3E a few years ago after running it for several years and completing Savage Tide. Since then I've run a couple of campaigns in 4E both of which took the PCs to high paragon tier. My most recent one just came to an end, and now I just don't feel inspired to run D&D at all (at least not the d20 game system).

I liked that 4E felt a lot more balanced than 3E, but the "twinkiness" of combat was killing me. Tracking conditions, zones, forced movement, interrupt actions, knocking ghosts prone etc... Fights really were feeling like a boardgame, and I was feeling like a book keeper running it. I know a lot of people claim that some of the actions and such you can do in 4E allow for players and dms have more opportunity to narrate the actions of their characters, but I wasn't seeing that happen with my group. Sometimes I didn't really know what was going on narrativewise I just knew what mechanical effects were being enacted.


Well I'd like to try running a D&D style campaign with the FATE system, I'm just not sure how well magic will work with the system.

Helaman wrote:
Its not fantasy but you could try changing genres. Dresden Files uses the FATE system and has won a few awards if you like the novels. Again, CoC isnt fantasy but a bit of Call of Cthulhu can shake things up a bit. I could also suggest ShadowRun

Liberty's Edge

Basic Roleplaying system by Chaosium is a welcome change from D&D like games. With the various magic/powers/mutation lists there is lots of scope. The combat system is quick and interesting with a good feel of flow and armor behaves as you would expect unlike D&D type games.

2 cents,
S.


How different is BRP compared to Call of Cthulhu? I've played Call of Cthulhu and the characters can drop from a couple of hits with a knife. Are characters equally fragile in BSRP, and is the fantasy magic system the same as the Cthulhu magic system?

Stefan Hill wrote:

Basic Roleplaying system by Chaosium is a welcome change from D&D like games. With the various magic/powers/mutation lists there is lots of scope. The combat system is quick and interesting with a good feel of flow and armor behaves as you would expect unlike D&D type games.

2 cents,
S.


What about Runequest isn't that essentially a BRP system?


Try Palladium Fantasy from Palladium Games. The system is far more solid in the 2nd ed iteration, and it doesn't have the damage separation categories Rifts suffers from. The world is lower magic as well.


I will be running one of the Pathfinder AP's for the future with FATE. I'm kind of partial to the "Strands of FATE" version myself. Me and a friend played around with it a bit, and didn't find any d20 spells we couldn't duplicate using the Advantages from the Powers system. Also the idea of making a custome stress track for whatever powers your magic (Divine, Ley Lines, Blood...whatever you come up with)helps reduce possible abuse of the system. Also more powerful spells have either/and/or a target number to get for the spell to go off, and require expenditure of a fate point.

Will be beginning a Victorian Age game at home soon, just to prepare for the future game. From my limited experience running this game system, I find that I tended to worry too much about a direct conversion to begin with. Found out in actual play it's extremely easy to create on the fly.

...then again I'm quickly becoming a FATE fanboy. Legends of Anglere also works, and much of the conversion work is already done, but I like the FATE treatment better in Strands of FATE.

Just keep in mind this type of RPG is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum from Pathfinder / d20, and requires a different play style and/or type of player.


I was checking out both Strands of Fate and Legends of Anglerre on Drivethrurpg. I went with the latter because it was more specifically geared to fantasy, but maybe I should check out strands of FATE. I also just downloaded DragonAge. It is a cool little system. I realize the 2nd set is out soon, but I wish they had made it into a more complete game from the get go. The underlying mechanic is really slick, and is very much what I'm looking for, but the options for monsters and character types aren't as robust as I'd like.

scranford wrote:

I will be running one of the Pathfinder AP's for the future with FATE. I'm kind of partial to the "Strands of FATE" version myself. Me and a friend played around with it a bit, and didn't find any d20 spells we couldn't duplicate using the Advantages from the Powers system. Also the idea of making a custome stress track for whatever powers your magic (Divine, Ley Lines, Blood...whatever you come up with)helps reduce possible abuse of the system. Also more powerful spells have either/and/or a target number to get for the spell to go off, and require expenditure of a fate point.

Will be beginning a Victorian Age game at home soon, just to prepare for the future game. From my limited experience running this game system, I find that I tended to worry too much about a direct conversion to begin with. Found out in actual play it's extremely easy to create on the fly.

...then again I'm quickly becoming a FATE fanboy. Legends of Anglere also works, and much of the conversion work is already done, but I like the FATE treatment better in Strands of FATE.

Just keep in mind this type of RPG is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum from Pathfinder / d20, and requires a different play style and/or type of player.


P.H. Dungeon wrote:
I've had a look at Castles and Crusades, but I don't think it's quite what I'm looking for.

Being a long time (25+ years) player, I really like Castles and Crusades. It takes the best parts of 3.x and re-created a 1st edition game. Combat is simpler, character creation is simpler but still allows for some choices, and DMing is much smoother. If you like 3.x and/or 4E but want faster combats and simpler rules, C&C might be your cup of tea.

Just my two bits.


Have you looked at Tunnels and Trolls?


P.H. Dungeon wrote:
What about Runequest isn't that essentially a BRP system?

Yes, in essence. Same stats, same %-system. I'll note that you ask in a previous post whether the magic system is the same as CoC, and the answer is... it can be. On the other hand, there are multiple published magic systems using Runequest. Glorantha has common magic, spirit/shamanic magic, divine magic, and sorcery; the last is probably closest to 'D&D magic'. In Glorantha nearly every character will have a certain amount of magic, but this isn't true in all settings.

Also, Runequest characters aren't necessarily fragile. True, experienced characters don't have a huge supply of hit points compared to novice ones; they may not even have more. Their armour may not be any better, and it's quite possible to be playing a setting without personal magic. They'll still be a lot less likely to be hit, since they're likely to be good at parrying and/or dodging attacks. It's the attack that you're not expecting that kills you in one shot.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay you say you're burned out on D20, but want the D&D feel. What exactly do you mean by that? Or what aspects of D20 do you want to keep?


I ran a dragonlance campaign for 2 years using GURPS 3E. I don't expect GURPS 4E to be much different. But if you want to carry over past D&D references, monsters, classes, etc. without much conversion, then your choices will pretty much be restricted to D20 systems.

But similar to D&D 4E and using older D&D material, it is easy to carry over the campaign setting and ideas. But for any new system, you will have to dredge through the initial learning curve.


Well I would like to essentially make it so my players can build characters similar to standard D&D archetypes, and use D&D monsters. Basically I want to be able to run a paizo AP (obviously with some revisions and conversion work), but use a different ruleset underneath. For instance, I could probably do that with FATE. I might be able to pull it off with Dragonage, but without a cleric class or real divine magic built into the system it will be a bit more work. I could pull it off with Savage Worlds. There are lots of ways to do it. I'm just trying to get a sense of the available options and try to figure out which one would work the best or me and my group.

I spent a good chunk of last night reading through the first DragonAge set, and I think it's very much the sort system I'm looking for. It takes much of the slickness of 4E, but removes a lot of the extra book keeping and other parts I don't like about that game. As a tradeoff it also removes a lot of the options that players have for building characters in 4E.

I know that with FATE the players could easily replicate any D&D archetype based on the aspects, skills and stunts they pick, but the system itself is much looser, and my biggest hangup is balancing the magic since that part of the system is also pretty loose.

LazarX wrote:
Okay you say you're burned out on D20, but want the D&D feel. What exactly do you mean by that? Or what aspects of D20 do you want to keep?


I haven't really looked closely at Tunnels and Trolls. I know a little bit about it. I'd probably categorize it as a retro clone game (though it's been around a long time, and is in something like its 8th edition). As far as that type of game goes, I think that Dragon Age is the strongest I've seen in that department (at least in terms of mechanics), though I believe tunnels and trolls has built in divine magic.

Terquem wrote:
Have you looked at Tunnels and Trolls?


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Well I would like to essentially make it so my players can build characters similar to standard D&D archetypes, and use D&D monsters. Basically I want to be able to run a paizo AP (obviously with some revisions and conversion work), but use a different ruleset underneath. For instance, I could probably do that with FATE. I might be able to pull it off with Dragonage, but without a cleric class or real divine magic built into the system it will be a bit more work. I could pull it off with Savage Worlds. There are lots of ways to do it. I'm just trying to get a sense of the available options and try to figure out which one would work the best or me and my group.

I spent a good chunk of last night reading through the first DragonAge set, and I think it's very much the sort system I'm looking for. It takes much of the slickness of 4E, but removes a lot of the extra book keeping and other parts I don't like about that game. As a tradeoff it also removes a lot of the options that players have for building characters in 4E.

I know that with FATE the players could easily replicate any D&D archetype based on the aspects, skills and stunts they pick, but the system itself is much looser, and my biggest hangup is balancing the magic since that part of the system is also pretty loose.

LazarX wrote:
Okay you say you're burned out on D20, but want the D&D feel. What exactly do you mean by that? Or what aspects of D20 do you want to keep?

That worried me at first with Strands, but when we experimented with it we found that to not be the case. The high cost of magic, and limited advantage points to begin with either let you do one thing very well or a few things well. The more powerful spells (Invisibility, Teleport, attack spells etc.) have a casting threshold that must be met. If the threshold is not met the spell goes off, but you take stess track damage, either through a custome stress track (ie Mana), or one of your exising (Mental). IF you use an existing stress track the cost for increasing those abilities is increased to offset their dual duty. My adding power modifiers, and limitations things balance out pretty well.

We were able to make a fire mage with beginning points that could duplicate the effects of 3.5's fireburst, but even with limitations, the character could basically do nothing else...so it does keep things in check.

Here is an example of a spell

Invisibility

Advantage Point cost 3 (Out of 12 to be spent for everything)
Activation Difficulty 6 (Which with FATE dice means you'll almost always take stress damage.
Activation Time Simple Action
Duration Scene
Requires a power source and Afinity ability (Arcane magic ??)
-Possible modifiers +1 AP for everyone in a zone
-Effortless (No activation roll, but must expend a FATE point to use)

This is costly, and limited by certain things.

Easier spells cost less, and are less costly to activate, and more powerful spells respond in kind.


Is this example a spell you designed using the system or are there a whole wack of them in the book? If it is in the book I like the clarity. Legends of Anglerre isn't that structured. You can take ranks in different magical skills (say weather), and if you have that skill and an aspect that indicates you cast spells then you can produce various weather related magical effects based on what is outlined in the skill description. You can purchase stunts related to this skill that allow you create additional and more powerful effects, and there are some guidelines about what you can and can't do, but it isn't nearly as structured as your example.

scranford wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Well I would like to essentially make it so my players can build characters similar to standard D&D archetypes, and use D&D monsters. Basically I want to be able to run a paizo AP (obviously with some revisions and conversion work), but use a different ruleset underneath. For instance, I could probably do that with FATE. I might be able to pull it off with Dragonage, but without a cleric class or real divine magic built into the system it will be a bit more work. I could pull it off with Savage Worlds. There are lots of ways to do it. I'm just trying to get a sense of the available options and try to figure out which one would work the best or me and my group.

I spent a good chunk of last night reading through the first DragonAge set, and I think it's very much the sort system I'm looking for. It takes much of the slickness of 4E, but removes a lot of the extra book keeping and other parts I don't like about that game. As a tradeoff it also removes a lot of the options that players have for building characters in 4E.

I know that with FATE the players could easily replicate any D&D archetype based on the aspects, skills and stunts they pick, but the system itself is much looser, and my biggest hangup is balancing the magic since that part of the system is also pretty loose.

LazarX wrote:
Okay you say you're burned out on D20, but want the D&D feel. What exactly do you mean by that? Or what aspects of D20 do you want to keep?
That worried me at first with Strands, but when we experimented with it we found that to not be the case. The high cost of magic, and limited advantage points to begin with either let you do one thing very well or a few things well. The more powerful spells (Invisibility, Teleport, attack spells etc.) have a casting threshold that must be met. If the threshold is not met the spell goes off, but you take stess track damage, either through a custome stress track (ie Mana), or one of your exising (Mental). IF you use an existing stress...


Yeah. Strands is very structured. It's not tied to a setting, so you can flavor things as you want. The example could be a magical spell, a technological cloaking device, an ability to hid yourself (or your space ship) from a persons mental notice etc. It's all mechanics. There are 82 pages of powers, and modifiers, then a few more pages of meta powers, limitations, and guides for developing your own powers.

Another cool thing is they've done away with skills completely. Everything is based off your 12 abilities, (With a possible 13th afinity ability for magic), and you use Aspects to diferentiate what skills you're really good with. For instance you might have a rating of 3 in knowledge, which you can use for all knowledge checks, but if you have an afinity aspect of I've memorized all the worlds History books, then you get to tag the aspect when it applies to History. No skill pyramid to deal with.


I just downloaded it from Drivethrurpg. At $10 I figured it would be well worth the purchase. I seems like a pretty cool variation on the FATE system. It brings in some more traditional rpg elements, which makes it a little easier for me to digest. I think I like the disappearance of skills and using aspects instead. Actually this is very much like how Dragon Age works. In Dragon Age you roll 3d6 add them together, add your ability modifier and then add +2 bonus if you have focus related to the test. So for picking a lock you would roll 3d6+ dex mod+ 2 for thievery. This is pretty much how Strands of FATE rolls as well, but it throws away the class system of Dragon Age making it more versatile in terms of your character options.

scranford wrote:

Yeah. Strands is very structured. It's not tied to a setting, so you can flavor things as you want. The example could be a magical spell, a technological cloaking device, an ability to hid yourself (or your space ship) from a persons mental notice etc. It's all mechanics. There are 82 pages of powers, and modifiers, then a few more pages of meta powers, limitations, and guides for developing your own powers.

Another cool thing is they've done away with skills completely. Everything is based off your 12 abilities, (With a possible 13th afinity ability for magic), and you use Aspects to diferentiate what skills you're really good with. For instance you might have a rating of 3 in knowledge, which you can use for all knowledge checks, but if you have an afinity aspect of I've memorized all the worlds History books, then you get to tag the aspect when it applies to History. No skill pyramid to deal with.


You could also check out the following, Wayfarer's RPG, the new Advanced Fighting Fantasy, or QUERP.


Thanks Scranford, having started reading through Strands of FATE, I think I prefer it to Legends of Anglerre. It feels like a tighter variant of the FATE system, and I think it has the potential to work really well for what I want to be able to do. I looks like a pretty awesome system for running nearly any sort of game.


Scranford,

Strands of FATE also seems to have a lot in common with Mutants and Masterminds in terms of how you build powers/spells.

It would be fairly easy to mimic 3E style magic with this system. However, that is a concern for me. One of my biggest problems with 3E is the game breaking potency of magic. From a DM perspective it can become a total nightmare, and I hate how 3E campaigns gradually degenerate into a magical arms race. IMO 4E does a good job of correcting that imbalance. I find that magic in 4E is still useful and fairly flavorful, but it doesn't have the same dominating presence it does in 3E. I want to run a game where magic is useful and flavorful while keeping its power level under control and preventing it from stomping all over the campaign. Do you have any tips about how best to do that with Strands of FATE?


By the way, thanks for the other suggestions that people have posted thus far. I'll look into some of them over the next while.


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Scranford,

Strands of FATE also seems to have a lot in common with Mutants and Masterminds in terms of how you build powers/spells.

It would be fairly easy to mimic 3E style magic with this system. However, that is a concern for me. One of my biggest problems with 3E is the game breaking potency of magic. From a DM perspective it can become a total nightmare, and I hate how 3E campaigns gradually degenerate into a magical arms race. IMO 4E does a good job of correcting that imbalance. I find that magic in 4E is still useful and fairly flavorful, but it doesn't have the same dominating presence it does in 3E. I want to run a game where magic is useful and flavorful while keeping its power level under control and preventing it from stomping all over the campaign. Do you have any tips about how best to do that with Strands of FATE?

Two things. I find that since Stress boxes replace Hit Points, and they really don't increase, it cost more and more to upgrade the damage of spells. You can place a limit on the amount of AP's allowed per spell, which could keep that under control. If you look at the Campaign Power level chart, you can see that the beginnings of powers list allows 12 AP's, but no more than (5) can be spent on one power. You can adjust this number as needed. I found that that seems to keep things in control Your "fireball" pretty much always does the same thing, as it's limited by it's AP maximum. no more 10d6 at this level power creep.

The other thing even if you fill all the stress boxes, and take all the consequences, you are mearly out, not dead. So you wake up with burns over ninty percent or your body, two fingers missing off your left hand, and a permanent limp, but you're not dead...and you can tag that whole hideously deformed aspect to scare children, and put extra money in your beggars hat.

In addition since there are no classes, your fighter type character can start buying power advantages as well. You could create "Barbarian Rage" as a special power fuled by your STR for example, thereby making them keep up with the dedicated magic using classes. Conversly there is nothing to say your wizard can't pick up a sword and become pretty good with it. It's all about allocating AP's. Control those and you control power creep.

I actually find it much easier to abuse an aspect, than an ability, or advantage.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Given that D&D existed for over 25 years before d20, you could always play an older edition of the game (or a retro-clone of those editions). Doesn't get much more "D&D feel" than that. Hell, some of us think that the d20 versions never got the "D&D feel".

Liberty's Edge

Kthulhu wrote:
Given that D&D existed for over 25 years before d20, you could always play an older edition of the game (or a retro-clone of those editions). Doesn't get much more "D&D feel" than that. Hell, some of us think that the d20 versions never got the "D&D feel".

+1 - that doesn't make 3e/PF/4e bad games, just different.


You might want to give Untold a try. All the versatility and complexity of a 4e, with none of the hassle. :) And, you can now get it right here in Paizo's store! :D

http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/i/ignitusInnovationInc

Brannon "Ashy" Hollingsworth
Untold Co-Creator
http://www.untoldthegame.com


P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I'm looking for a new system to run D&D style fantasy games (for instance running/converting a paizo AP). I'm burnt out on 3E/pathfinder and 4E.

ask.

Chaosium's Basic Role-playing System is fast, easy to learn, and does a good job of promoting role-playing. It has been the basis for RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, QuestWorld, etc.

I've used variations of it many times over the years to good effect.

It is an especially good system for introducing new players.

I have a bunch more listed here: Staats RPG Library.

In service,

Rich
www.drgames.org


Stefan Hill wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Given that D&D existed for over 25 years before d20, you could always play an older edition of the game (or a retro-clone of those editions). Doesn't get much more "D&D feel" than that. Hell, some of us think that the d20 versions never got the "D&D feel".
+1 - that doesn't make 3e/PF/4e bad games, just different.

There was a great discussion about this in Knights of the Dinner table.

A lot of folks have made the argument that 4e is not really D&D as many of the older gamers remember it.

4e is not a bad game. It just bears little resemblence to AD&D.

One of the better reviews is here: Amazon Review of 4e.


I've never overly loved the system of any incarnation of D&D. I like 2E better than 1E, I like 3E better than 2E, and I like 4E better than 3E, so in my mind the game has improved. However, there are still a lot of things I don't like about 4E. What I like about D&D is the mythology of the game and all the fun D&D critters. I like the archetypes you get to play in D&D, and I like many of the settings. I just don't particularly love the mechanical foundation of any version of the game.

DrGames wrote:
Stefan Hill wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Given that D&D existed for over 25 years before d20, you could always play an older edition of the game (or a retro-clone of those editions). Doesn't get much more "D&D feel" than that. Hell, some of us think that the d20 versions never got the "D&D feel".
+1 - that doesn't make 3e/PF/4e bad games, just different.

There was a great discussion about this in Knights of the Dinner table.

A lot of folks have made the argument that 4e is not really D&D as many of the older gamers remember it.

4e is not a bad game. It just bears little resemblence to AD&D.

One of the better reviews is here: Amazon Review of 4e.


There's always GURPS, as long as you don't mind spending 3 hours of prep for every 1 hour of gaming you plan to do.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DrGames wrote:

There was a great discussion about this in Knights of the Dinner table.

A lot of folks have made the argument that 4e is not really D&D as many of the older gamers remember it.

And there were those who made that discussion about 3rd edition, about 2nd edition, and there were even a few who said that about AD&D. The wheel turns.


martinaj wrote:
There's always GURPS, as long as you don't mind spending 3 hours of prep for every 1 hour of gaming you plan to do.

Too bad SJ games doesn't appear to keep up with the times and implement tools like 4E. With templates, and a decent character generator, you could cover some serious ground to make it easier. Add some monster supplements on the top as gravy.


Yeah I was thinking about checking out GURPS, I've never played it, but I'm not so cool with 3 hours prep for 1 hour of play. It seems like a bit too much number crunching for my tastes.

Right now I'm leaning towards FATE (possibly using Dresden files for my magic rules), Dragon Age or Warhammer 3E.

Warhammer: I'm currently playing in a warhammer campaign and I really like the game, but the system is pretty specific to the setting. I like the Warhammer setting, but I don't think it would be that easy to convert a Pathfinder AP to.

FATE: I think looks like a really fun game, but I haven't seen a magic system for it that I really love. The Dresden Files one looks the best, but it is pretty detailed, so it would take some work to get used to it and adapt it to a D&D style game.

Dragon Age: I'm not a huge fan of the setting, and the game is pretty setting specific. It is a bit more adaptable than Warhammer to being used with a more D&D style setting IMO, but Im not sure how well I could convert a pathfinder AP to that game. I would at least like to try running an adventure or two with that system, just to see how it plays.


I had a look at Untold. It seems like an interesting concept. I'd happily give it a shot if someone were to run it for me, but I don't know if I could see myself just picking it up and trying to run it on my own. Firstly, I've never been in collectible card games, so the whole idea of a rpg done with cards is a little weird to me, though the new warhammer rgp is pretty close to that, so I'm getting more used to it. Secondly, I really want to play a game where the story stays up front and the mechanics fall quietly into the background. Untold looks like it will have too much "metagame chatter" for my liking, much like a find 4E does.

Ignitus wrote:

You might want to give Untold a try. All the versatility and complexity of a 4e, with none of the hassle. :) And, you can now get it right here in Paizo's store! :D

http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/i/ignitusInnovationInc

Brannon "Ashy" Hollingsworth
Untold Co-Creator
http://www.untoldthegame.com


I've run several games of Call of Cthulhu using BRPG, but I've never tried to play it in a fantasy game. It seems like a somewhat dated percentile based system. For instance, Anima is essentially a percentile based fantasy rpg that looks like it might be a bit slicker than BRPG.

DrGames wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I'm looking for a new system to run D&D style fantasy games (for instance running/converting a paizo AP). I'm burnt out on 3E/pathfinder and 4E.

ask.

Chaosium's Basic Role-playing System is fast, easy to learn, and does a good job of promoting role-playing. It has been the basis for RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, QuestWorld, etc.

I've used variations of it many times over the years to good effect.

It is an especially good system for introducing new players.

I have a bunch more listed here: Staats RPG Library.

In service,

Rich
www.drgames.org


Heya P.H., let me put some of your fears to rest. First of all, Untold is NOT collectible. We tell you what cards you're getting - they're listed on the packages and on our website (Paizo's store won't let us use the codes we need to display the card listings on here, or they'd be listed on this site, too). Regardless, Untold is NOT collectible - we did not want that AT ALL with our game.

As far as meta-talk infiltrating the game, you do not have to worry - nothing could be further from the truth. While it seems counter-intuitive, the cards and the modularized mechanics of Untold actually help in minimizing the meta-talk in games and driving more role-play to the table. Not to mention that one of our core mechanics - Swapping - requires role-playing!

You might want to check our Untold Player Finder, as we have new groups and demos going all the time! Info on demos can be found here.

Hope this helps!

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

I had a look at Untold. It seems like an interesting concept. I'd happily give it a shot if someone were to run it for me, but I don't know if I could see myself just picking it up and trying to run it on my own. Firstly, I've never been in collectible card games, so the whole idea of a rpg done with cards is a little weird to me, though the new warhammer rgp is pretty close to that, so I'm getting more used to it. Secondly, I really want to play a game where the story stays up front and the mechanics fall quietly into the background. Untold looks like it will have too much "metagame chatter" for my liking, much like a find 4E does.

Ignitus wrote:

You might want to give Untold a try. All the versatility and complexity of a 4e, with none of the hassle. :) And, you can now get it right here in Paizo's store! :D

http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/i/ignitusInnovationInc

Brannon "Ashy" Hollingsworth
Untold Co-Creator
http://www.untoldthegame.com

Liberty's Edge

P.H. Dungeon wrote:
I've run several games of Call of Cthulhu using BRPG, but I've never tried to play it in a fantasy game. It seems like a somewhat dated percentile based system.

Interesting to say 'dated'. I'm not sure what mean by that? The current BRP came out in 2008 and the hardback version 2010. Has the system changed much from previous editions - nope. But I say why would you change something that works so well?

S.

Shadow Lodge

Stefan Hill wrote:
P.H. Dungeon wrote:
I've run several games of Call of Cthulhu using BRPG, but I've never tried to play it in a fantasy game. It seems like a somewhat dated percentile based system.

Interesting to say 'dated'. I'm not sure what mean by that? The current BRP came out in 2008 and the hardback version 2010. Has the system changed much from previous editions - nope. But I say why would you change something that works so well?

S.

+1. The got it pretty much right when they first created BRP, and it's merely been a process of refinement since then.

It's simple, the improvement of skills is a HELL of a lot more organic than in d20 (or any other system I personally have experience with), and it's one of the most flexible systems out there. Want to do a horror game set in the distant future? BRP can do that. Want to play a superhero game? BRP can do that.

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