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Can you define evil objectively?
Evil is not subjective, our opinions are however.
I will take a shot at it. Evil is something that is harmful and undesirable. For example, pollution, racism, and genocide are all evil because they are harmful and undesirable. The first can be shown objectively through science to be harmful; the other two are objectively evil because even those that engage in the activity would, perhaps grudgingly, accept that the purpose for engaging in the act is to harm someone else.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The problem is that once the political message goes out these days, anyone not agreeing is immediately called paranoid and a conspiracy theorist. It does not paint a pretty picture for the future of certain countries that this is the case.
Not really. People who spout paranoid conspiracy thoeries are immediately called paranoid conspiracy theorists. You can spot them, because they say things like "impeccable timing" without any coherent explanation for why this particular timing is better than any other particular timing. Particularly at a time like this, when there aren't any elections in the immediate future or any other significant political advantage evidenced by the release of the information.
Having vague, illogical, poorly reasoned beliefs about the world which are predicated upon absurd counterfactuals ("if Osama is really dead now, why wasn't he dead earlier!") does not constitute any form of political conversation or intelligent discourse. It identifies the speaker as someone for whom rational debate is not a priority, and that they would rather hide behind shadows and imagination rather the debate issues and topics like responsible adults.
That said, it's important to have a simple (conspiracy) story to tell the kids so the real adults can handle running the country and dealing with reality, in all its messiness. If someone wants to exclude themselves from serious political thought by believing in magic zorgon death rays and doubting the legitimacy of all media outlets outside of their fevered imagination, I just say this: "Remember, the voting booths are where they hide the mind lasers - make sure you avoid them at all cost."
My point is: There is something in this story that truly stinks.
And you base that upon...
Evidence?
Logic?
General unsubstantiated distrust of the men in black and their banker overlords?
It may be entirely true, if so, the american soldiers assassinating him is bad enough. If there is more to it, well, as you said, we will know how far this is going to be used. War against Pakistan? Perhaps. Either way, this is going to be blurted out every time people want to discuss shutting down Guantanamo and other abhorrent practices of this and the current american administration, only nobody will ever know WHAT information from Guantanamo lead to this operation.
I suppose, again, in the imaginary world in which the US goverment acts as a monolithic agent, managing to project the illusion of two parties that would fight with each other over allocating the blame or credit about what color the country's currency is, it may somehow have staged this elaborate charade in Pakistan in order to (pardon me at this point, but the "logic" gets a little fuzzy) cause Americans to get angry enough at Pakistan to justify a war.
(Because, as Iran, North Korea, Venezuala, and countless other countries know, having the American people be slightly upset at you is practically the exact same thing as being invaded/attacked by the US).
Also, the administration sure did dodge a bullet on closing Gitmo, eh? I mean, they were [__] <--- this close to closing it down before this broke! The Republican controlled House and the Democratic controlled Senate were on the cusp of forcing the guy who said he'd close it and then changed his mind to finally really close it. But, now they don't have to! Because, in addition to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, America is also founded on the ideal of keeping potentially dangerous war criminals locked up indefinitiely, and in order to protect that fundamental principal, sometimes you need to fake the death of the leader of terrorist organization that has been hunted for nearly a decade.
Too convenient. Or: There is something funny about this.
Yeah...having Bin Laden killed in the beginning of May in Pakistan sure is convenient...that sure is funny that he didn't die on some other day. Because if there is one thing we can say with confidence, it's that if he was killed on some other day, it would not be convenient or funny. It's not as if someone could pick a date out of a hat and yet be met with the ignorant conspiracy theorist response of "gosh, isn't that impeccable timing."
All days are impeccablely timed when you are making up the crap for which the timing was impeccable.
There's reasonable skepticism. There's critical thinking. And then there's garbled nonsense unfit for a tabloid about Michael Jackson returning from the dead with his alien lover(s). Scorn is rightfully attributable to one of those three things.
There may or may not be evil, but, by god, let no one doubt that there is stupid.
Can you define evil objectively?
Evil is not subjective, our opinions are however.
My point is: There is something in this story that truly stinks.And you base that upon...
Evidence?
Logic?
General unsubstantiated distrust of the men in black and their banker overlords?
My distrust for MiB and their banker overlords is very WELL substantiated, thank you.
....There may or may not be evil, but, by god, let no one doubt that there is stupid....
I think I may weeps tears of joy.
I am remaining aloof from this conversation so that, in the years to come, when, say, Kissinger, or either of the Bushes, or Cameron, or Sarkozy or Clinton or anyone else kicks the bucket, I can start a celebratory death thread as well.
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EvilCan you define evil objectively?
Evil is not subjective, our opinions are however.
I see many subjective opinions on what evil is there. But nothing that objectively defines it. I think David did a better job of it.
I see many subjective opinions on what evil is there. But nothing that objectively defines it. I think David did a better job of it.EvilCan you define evil objectively?
Evil is not subjective, our opinions are however.
Oh for sure. I do not have the time to discus it. I do believe in black and white as well as shades of gray.
The problem is that once the political message goes out these days, anyone not agreeing is immediately called paranoid and a conspiracy theorist. It does not paint a pretty picture for the future of certain countries that this is the case.
My point is: There is something in this story that truly stinks. It may be entirely true, if so, the american soldiers assassinating him is bad enough. If there is more to it, well, as you said, we will know how far this is going to be used. War against Pakistan? Perhaps. Either way, this is going to be blurted out every time people want to discuss shutting down Guantanamo and other abhorrent practices of this and the current american administration, only nobody will ever know WHAT information from Guantanamo lead to this operation.
Too convenient. Or: There is something funny about this.
Well if the story is entirely true...than it was not a assassination as they did demand he surrendered....and refused to do so. But that is besides the point.
I don't think we are getting all the facts about this...and never will. And that is because the fact is I am pretty sure some of the things need to be kept secret as we are still 'at war' with the terrorists....I know we disagree on that point though.
But you are doing the same exact thing you accuse goverments of doing by labeling this as a assassination. Heck we will probably see certain Islamic groups also calling it a assassination pretty soon...if that is not already the case. Is that not propganda as well?
Also there is a difference between questioning the official word and coming up with crazy theories and using strong words like assassination... really at this point I see no difference between those goverement you fear and hate so much and you.
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I see many subjective opinions on what evil is there. But nothing that objectively defines it. I think David did a better job of it.EvilCan you define evil objectively?
Evil is not subjective, our opinions are however.
Although my definition does leave open the question of what is undesirable. That is where Darth Knight's statement about opinion comes in. For example, injecting yourself with a disease to prevent getting another disease is certainly harmful over the short term. However whether it is undesirable or not is a matter of opinion. I think most of us would say no, it is desirable to not get the worse disease. However there are those who disagree and so choose not to vaccinate their children. On another more controversial subject, I see nothing harmful or undesirable with gene splicing plants to help fight malnutrition in third world nations*. However, I know lots, and lots, and lots of people who strongly disagree with me. Therefore our opinions on the subject define whether we believe that the practice is evil, even when placed against a mostly objective standard.
*
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The problem is that once the political message goes out these days, anyone not agreeing is immediately called paranoid and a conspiracy theorist. It does not paint a pretty picture for the future of certain countries that this is the case.Not really. People who spout paranoid conspiracy thoeries are immediately called paranoid conspiracy theorists. You can spot them, because they say things like "impeccible timing" without any coherent explanation for why this particular timing is better than any other particular timing. Particularly at a time like this, when there aren't any elections in the immediate future or any other significant political advantage evidenced by the release of the information.
Having vague, illogical, poorly reasoned beliefs about the world which are predicated upon absurd counterfactuals ("if Osama is really dead now, why wasn't he dead earlier!") does not constitute any form of political conversation or intelligent discourse. It identifies the speaker as someone for whom rational debate is not a priority, and that they would rather hide behind shadows and imagination rather the debate issues and topics like responsible adults.
That said, it's important to have a simple (conspiracy) story to tell the kids so the real adults can handle running the country and dealing with reality, in all its messiness. If someone wants to exclude themselves from serious political thought by believing in magic zorgon death rays and doubting the legitimacy of all media outlets outside of their fevered imagination, I just say this: "Remember, the voting booths are where they hide the mind lasers - make sure you avoid them at all cost."
My point is: There is something in this story that truly stinks.And you base that upon...
Evidence?
Logic?
General unsubstantiated distrust of the men in black and their banker overlords?
It may be entirely true, if so, the american soldiers assassinating him is bad enough. If...
YA DAMNED RIGHT BOSS!
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If someone wants to exclude themselves from serious political thought by believing in magic zorgon death rays and doubting the legitimacy of all media outlets outside of their fevered imagination, I just say this: "Remember, the voting booths are where they hide the mind lasers - make sure you avoid them at all cost."
Washington does mail in ballots... so the voting booth is my own home... time to start wearing the tin-foil at home AND outside....
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Washington does mail in ballots... so the voting booth is my own home... time to start wearing the tin-foil at home AND outside....
If someone wants to exclude themselves from serious political thought by believing in magic zorgon death rays and doubting the legitimacy of all media outlets outside of their fevered imagination, I just say this: "Remember, the voting booths are where they hide the mind lasers - make sure you avoid them at all cost."
Time to start wearing the whole suit, and not just the hat...
My mind laser is in my pants.
All days are impecciblely timed when you are making up the crap for which the timing was impeccible.
There's reasonable skepticism. There's critical thinking. And then there's garbled nonsense unfit for a tabloid about Michael Jackson returning from the dead with his alien lover(s). Scorn is rightfully attributable to one of those three things.
Speaking of impeccable timing. I shot a photo this past Saturday (see hyperlink above).
Too convenient. Or: There is something funny about this.
Funny? Absolutely!
A few posts flagged. Moving on. Hopefully, one day one will be able to talk about propaganda without getting lectures about "zargon death rays" or whatever.
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There's critical thinking. And then there's garbled nonsense unfit for a tabloid about Michael Jackson returning from the dead with his alien lover(s).Speaking of impeccable timing. I shot a photo this past Saturday (see hyperlink above).
Who the f+~! is that guy?
Who the f@!@ is that guy?There's critical thinking. And then there's garbled nonsense unfit for a tabloid about Michael Jackson returning from the dead with his alien lover(s).Speaking of impeccable timing. I shot a photo this past Saturday (see hyperlink above).
Plays in a local metal/hardcore band out in my neck of the woods called Act Of Violence. It'd be up your alley.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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A few posts flagged. Moving on. Hopefully, one day one will be able to talk about propaganda without getting lectures about "zargon death rays" or whatever.
I'd suggest group therapy at a good psychiatric institution as the most appropriate forum for a discussion about "propaganda". Those who have been exposed to zorgon (not "zargan" - everyone knows they don't really exist) death rays can probably relate to the dangers of living in a world so thick with deceit and elaborate conspiracies.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Who the f*@& is that guy?There's critical thinking. And then there's garbled nonsense unfit for a tabloid about Michael Jackson returning from the dead with his alien lover(s).Speaking of impeccable timing. I shot a photo this past Saturday (see hyperlink above).
Whoever he is, I think he should take over for Charlie Sheen in the next season of Two and a Half Men.
Also, this image proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this whole operation was staged. If it weren't, why would someone get that tatooed on their chest? It seems too convenient to me that someone would get such a tatoo and then post it where Urizen could link to it on these very boards just as I was posting a rant that included a line about Michael Jackson and alien lovers. Is there really any other explanation?
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Is there really any other explanation?
Well ... it could be a photo of you in a serious disguise having set up the photo shoot to ensure the photo would be in place so you could make the reference in your post and then ask how such a coincidence could occur outside of some widespread conspiracy, which would have been a conspiracy of your own making. You sneaky pony you.
A few posts flagged. Moving on. Hopefully, one day one will be able to talk about propaganda without getting lectures about "zargon death rays" or whatever.
propaganda:
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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** spoiler omitted **
semantics, yes, but so was your quoted statement.
Read "disparage" or "denigrate" for "impugn," however unintentionally.
S: (n) assassination (murder of a public figure by surprise attack)
S: (n) murder (unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being)
Killing enemy combatants in a time of war isn't unlawful, therefore isn't murder, therefore isn't assassination. Semantics.
Obviously, total pacifists will disagree.
The US killed a man in another country. "Tragically, he was killed when resisting arrest..." they'll say. Then they bury him at sea the very same day, "so he can't become a martyr".
This stinks.
One, if the US really had killed him now, they would have taken the body to be showed off, come hell or high water. NOTHING would have stood in the way of being able to prove he has really been killed.
Two, if this was a lie, that means he's either already dead, or he's not.
Three, if he wasn't dead, they would risk him showing up somewhere in a few years' time, so he must be dead.
Four, if I remember correctly, he needed dialysis back in 2001. Expected survival in that situation is... pissy. A few years. I doubt getting health care back in some Afghan caves would have improved things.
Five, the timing is impeccable, with the end of the US military presence closing in, and Obama needing popularity figures.
Six, the decision to do this was likely a prelude to war in Pakistan. Within days, the accusations of sheltering him will fly. Either Pakistan will then give the US whatever they want, or there will be war. Again. Yay. Against a nuclear power.
If I were you, americans, I would be VERY sad today.
My one and only post in this thread will be to say that others have already replied to in the same manner I would have (thank you, in particular, Sebastien) and Ross has called for people to be civil, so I'll bite my tongue.
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Plays in a local metal/hardcore band out in my neck of the woods called Act Of Violence. It'd be up your alley.Who the f@!@ is that guy?There's critical thinking. And then there's garbled nonsense unfit for a tabloid about Michael Jackson returning from the dead with his alien lover(s).Speaking of impeccable timing. I shot a photo this past Saturday (see hyperlink above).
I love the way the tat artist made MJ look like a zombie.
I love the way the tat artist made MJ look like a zombie.Plays in a local metal/hardcore band out in my neck of the woods called Act Of Violence. It'd be up your alley.Who the f@!@ is that guy?There's critical thinking. And then there's garbled nonsense unfit for a tabloid about Michael Jackson returning from the dead with his alien lover(s).Speaking of impeccable timing. I shot a photo this past Saturday (see hyperlink above).
Where they gonna bury him at?I just read that they're burying him at sea.
Buried at sea. As in Was done hours after his death.
Welcome to your second term, Mr. Obama.
Under his orders, the most evil man in the world was executed for his crimes, and his bullet riddled body was cast into the sea. Yes, he deserves a second term for that. The Republican Party can no longer call him the worst president of all time. George W. Bush was, but that is a fact. No, my friends, this has definately earned Mr. Obama a second term as the President of America, and then he shall become the President of the World!
Water is a sink for magical energy. By burying Bin Laden at sea we are protecting against his Lich raising.
But now there is going to be some underwater adventure/war where one side is going to try to get bin Laden's bones, so and evil cleric can bring him back to life.
I'm sure dolphins will somehow be involved.
Welcome to your second term, Mr. Obama.Under his orders, the most evil man in the world was executed for his crimes, and his bullet riddled body was cast into the sea. Yes, he deserves a second term for that. The Republican Party can no longer call him the worst president of all time. George W. Bush was, but that is a fact. No, my friends, this has definitely earned Mr. Obama a second term as the President of America, and then he shall become the President of the World!
Obama, has not earned a second term. I personally do not believe any president can earn what is essentially a personality contest. Sure we can like or dislike specific ideals they suggest or plans they may have. I do in fact disagree with him on many issues, this however does not guarantee him a second term.
As for worst historical President of the USA, the consensus seems to be Warren G. Harding. Although James Buchanan is not far behind him.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Sebastian, I <3 you very, very much.
A drink of your choice at P-Con, sir!
Ooh! I won't be making it this year (stupid best friend's stupid marriage in which I will be a stupid groomsman), but I may take you up on a drink next year (and return the favor). Just make it not a manhattan...
I do in fact disagree with him on many issues, this however does not guarantee him a second term.
Yeah, statements like that make my head spin. The original George Bush was batting a 90%-ish approval rating at this point in his first (and only) term, and yet he wasn't guaranteed a second term.
Sebastian, I <3 you very, very much.
A drink of your choice at P-Con, sir!
Ooh! I won't be making it this year (stupid best friend's stupid marriage in which I will be a stupid groomsman), but I may take you up on a drink next year (and return the favor). Just make it not a manhattan...
I do in fact disagree with him on many issues, this however does not guarantee him a second term.
Yeah, statements like that make my head spin. The original George Bush was batting a 90%-ish approval rating at this point in his first (and only) term, and yet he wasn't guaranteed a second term.
"Mission Accomplished"
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As for worst historical President of the USA, the consensus seems to be Warren G. Harding. Although James Buchanan is not far behind him.
Andrew Johnson was down there on the list too. Bush 43 usually ranks somewhere between 23 and 26 on the list. He usually ranks just above or just below President Clinton on the polls of historians.
I do in fact disagree with him on many issues, this however does not guarantee him a second term.
Yeah, statements like that make my head spin. The original George Bush was batting a 90%-ish approval rating at this point in his first (and only) term, and yet he wasn't guaranteed a second term.
Anyone can screw up at anytime. Heck you have proven that numerous times. :)
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Under his orders, the most evil man in the world was executed for his crimes, and his bullet riddled body was cast into the sea. Yes, he deserves a second term for that. The Republican Party can no longer call him the worst president of all time. George W. Bush was, but that is a fact. No, my friends, this has definately earned Mr. Obama a second term as the President of America, and then he shall become the President of the World!
Damnit! How'd you get out? I told the others to get thicker chains....
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Woke up this morning, got ready for work, turned on computer - that's when I found out.
I'm happy that justice was finally served and that rat-bastard is dead. Sad in knowing that we've still got a long way to go.
Justice is a Trial by a Jury of One and life in a cage at the South Pole along with all the other undesirable numbers. This, like the last ten years, is a victory to the lawless animals on all sides.
woh WOH woh woh Marvel wins!
I'm going to read his posts as a Charlie Brown adult speaking from now on. Like nuking the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Personally, I have a hard time regarding this event with anything but pessimistic relief.
I doubt that Osama Bin Ladin was even in the top ten most evil men in the world. Certainly, however, he was among the top most hated by US Americans. And with good justifications. The weight of tragedy bestowed upon the world by his schemes, and our reaction to them, is certainly far in excess of the power that should be granted to any man, casting the evils he has perpetrated into a harsh light with long, far reaching shadows. Those shadows will extend long after his flesh is consumed and the light faded.