I've been browsing the forums for the last week and checked the gamer connection boards for the online campaigns and modules that are being run here on the site, and I have yet to see anybody create a cavalier. Why is this? Is it a poor class, or unfit? Or is it more a very freaky coincidence?
you tend to see posts on the extremes. Cavaliers are a nice class with a mixture if Lea dry and combat stuff. the horse stuff is good but can be ignored. though when the riding stuff works it's amazing.
IMO it's because cavaliers need to be mounted and let's be honest a lot of campaings aren't horse friendly. Also i think that being a mounted combatant requires a certain amount of coordination from the rest of the party and i don't think that every party can do that.
we had a cavalier in serpent's skull, when the UC playtest came out we replaced it with a ronin, just so we could playtest. The ronin is still in the party (which is technically just a cavalier alternate class)
Our party barbarian in Carrion Crown was very nearly decapitated the other night, and the alchemist was almost tooled by a hoarde of skeletons. We briefly discussed what would be made had those characters died.
A magus and a cavalier were the answers.
I'd really like to see Heidi play a cavalier, it'd be a huge departure from her normal characters which usually involved being some kind of wall paper. (boring and very hiding int he backround types), shes literally almost always a semi active NPC.... it's rather strange, but then again it is sort of her personality... so a cavalier would be great!
We wanted to have an ALL caster party, but one of the player made a barbarian with no enough stats to become a rage prophet(oracle) and she always forgets to use her spells when she is a multiclass character anyway....
The cavaliers are wherever the horses are. That is to say... not in most dungeons, castles, haunted graveyards, tunnels, cavern systems, swamps, taverns, or indeed any of the other places adventurers and adventure tend to frequent.
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The cavaliers are wherever the horses are. That is to say... not in most dungeons, castles, haunted graveyards, tunnels, cavern systems, swamps, taverns, or indeed any of the other places adventurers and adventure tend to frequent.
all I have to say is, if they can ride motorcycles up and down stairs in animal house... why can't horses go nearly anywhere?
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The cavaliers are wherever the horses are. That is to say... not in most dungeons, castles, haunted graveyards, tunnels, cavern systems, swamps, taverns, or indeed any of the other places adventurers and adventure tend to frequent.
People seem to have this weird idea that Cavaliers are worthless without their horse, instead of being pretty badass, but even more so with the horse. It's weird, but it results in a lot of people not playing them.
I've got a cavalier in the Kingmaker game I've been running. Her horse has been nicknamed Buttercup the Destroyer, and she's pretty devastating overall, even though she's constantly forgetting to use her teamwork feats.
Same here: The General in our Kingmaker campaign is a cavalier.
The cavaliers are wherever the horses are. That is to say... not in most dungeons, castles, haunted graveyards, tunnels, cavern systems, swamps, taverns, or indeed any of the other places adventurers and adventure tend to frequent.People seem to have this weird idea that Cavaliers are worthless without their horse, instead of being pretty badass, but even more so with the horse. It's weird, but it results in a lot of people not playing them.
I think it's that, plus they're kind of pigeon-holed into a specific character archetype and combat style that people don't really look at them unless that's what they're going for.
I think the Cavalier would benefit a lot from some archetypes that change that.
It's a stereo type.
It's hard to imagine (and take seriously) a halfling riding a boar or a gnome riding a dog as a cavalier. So they tend to be medium characters, and mounts are kind of limited to horse at the start, because cool and interesting choices are too powerful and dont become large enough to ride until 7th level.
So it's medium guy on a horse for 7 levels....dims down the imaginative uses for the class
I think when they get more Archetypes, either simply not having an AC at all,
or alternate options like the Hound Master, alot more people will take a 2nd look at them...
They are really a great contributor to a party completely apart from the AC, especially without a Bard, but even with one...
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I have a Shoanti fighter in ROTRL that kicks mega f$&#ing ass on a horse.
And he's only ridden a horse in a grand total of: 1 fight. He kicked major ass, and it was funny cos I don't think anybody expected it, but.....1 fight, man.....
So it seems to be a waste of a finite resources i.e. feats (to really make yourself kick ass on a horse) if you get to own 1 fight over 5-6 levels of advancement. I mean: toughness and improved init can help you in every single combat encounter.
I have my cavalier build ready -- just don't have a campaign to play it in yet. I'm hoping to use him when we start up our next AP -- either carrion crown or serpents whatever.
Gnome/halfling/gobin cavalier works out well since they can fit anywhere and the real damage you are doing is the lance charge.
I thought cavaliers had a lot of options, personally -- it's just options people traditionally say "won't work" or aren't willing to try.
Kobold cavalier on a velociraptor.
Run.
Kobold cavalier on a velociraptor.
Run.
Towards it -- better to not let it have the charge distance it needs.
I agree with most. Many people want to "play what's familiar", and play humans, elves, or half elves. Halflings and Gnomes are the only "practical" cavaliers, due to being able to get away with having their mount underground due to size constraints
While I agree that in the typical dungeon the thought of a horse is odd... many games and DM's will through in tons of other large, huge, and even bigger creatures for the players to fight.
If those things can get in and get around then it is at least possible for a medium cavalier to get his mount in as well when they want to.
That being said the small races make great cav's and can go anyway a dwarf can go. (We have one in our Legacy of Fire game now.)
In my first Pathfinder game, I played a desert Nezumi (converted from Oriental Adventures) Cavalier/Ashworm Dragoon (Sandstorm) who rode an Ashworm (Sandstorm).
A good backstory, character depth, and (to me) new mechanics offered a PC that was a lot of fun to play. Both in RP and in combat, he was a solid PC. One of my favorites...
Unfortunately, his high AC, mobility, and damage output took our DM by surprise. So much so that she rail-roaded the party and forcefully separated my mount and I via planar portal trap. No saves were offered, no forwarning given, no chance to react.
In the following session, she realized how telling of a blow it was.
-Kurocyn
Cavalier is awesome sauce. People.don't play them yet because it isn'twell known they kick ass without the mount.
Order of the shield for example.
Challenge grants a scaling (to +5) bonus to hit and gets a free better version of standstill. This SCREAMS TWF (since the iteratives hit more, challenge bonus damage and you can pin your opponent).
The tactician ability is very powerful (paired opportunists, outflank) group buff.
The other orderabilities are gravy.
On a horse? Opportunity varies but you are jaw droppingly good when it does.
I have a Shoanti fighter in ROTRL that kicks mega f$!*ing ass on a horse.
And he's only ridden a horse in a grand total of: 1 fight.
So it seems to be a waste of a finite resources i.e. feats (to really make yourself kick ass on a horse) if you get to own 1 fight over 5-6 levels of advancement. I mean: toughness and improved init can help you in every single combat encounter.
Umm... I suggest begging for lenience from you GM and asking to re-spec your Feats for complete and utter lack of usage.
This is the thing: nothing in Cavalier forces you to specialize in mounted combat.
You´re right: unless you are fighting on horseback on a regular basis,
plenty of other feats offer MUCH more pay-back than those feats...
SO... DON`T TAKE MOUNTED COMBAT FEATS!!!
You can in fact PLAN on never fighting on horseback.
If there`s enough space, you can command your mount to act as a flanking buddy for you, as a way to get some combat use out of it.
I have a Shoanti fighter in ROTRL that kicks mega f$!*ing ass on a horse.
And he's only ridden a horse in a grand total of: 1 fight.
So it seems to be a waste of a finite resources i.e. feats (to really make yourself kick ass on a horse) if you get to own 1 fight over 5-6 levels of advancement. I mean: toughness and improved init can help you in every single combat encounter.
Umm... I suggest begging for lenience from you GM and asking to re-spec your Feats for complete and utter lack of usage.
This is the thing: nothing in Cavalier forces you to specialize in mounted combat.
You´re right: unless you are fighting on horseback on a regular basis,
plenty of other feats offer MUCH more pay-back than those feats...
SO... DON`T TAKE MOUNTED COMBAT FEATS!!!You can in fact PLAN on never fighting on horseback.
If there`s enough space, you can command your mount to act as a flanking buddy for you, as a way to get some combat use out of it.
We had a Ronin's mount in SS get killed, and no real way to get another. Spell casters have been using things like phantom steed and other similar spells (mount) to have him have a horse where it fits or is needed..
Recently he did get a live mount back, but for many session he had no mount at all. Notably the Samurai/ronin is less mount-0centric than the traditional cav.But pretty much (at least in SS) there is very little places the mount cannot go.
Im playing an inquisitor in CC, but had i not wanted to a) add more spell casting to the party and b)try out an amateur gunslinger build. I think Id be playing a Cavalier.
I can't wait to play my cavalier. Not sure I will ever take a mounted feat, or even use the thing in combat, but the class is solid even without it.
I think the class could benefit from a few more orders, since I find it really difficult to justify any of them on my character (swearing vengance doesn't really fit an existing order). Right now, a few too many of the orders are tied into being a paladin for my taste.
my friend had a halfling cavalier on a wolf, he fed fly potions and had sold booties of spider climb. giving him a clear line of sight to the enemy I'n 100 feet was a death sentence to the enemy. the only thing we couldn't figure outbid how to get him a swift or free action pass wall on his lance. he has fo make it 3 int and spend tricks to justify the flying and wall climbing.
really they are a great class and getting at least mounted combat and spirited charge is probably worth it Shen it does come into play.
I have played a smaurai through a few encounters on a campaign that then fell apart but it was fun even though I decided to go mounted sometimes I only took mounted combat as the mounted feat and it was horse friendly. The teamwork feats are not that exciting so I lik samurai better. Samurai also does not have class features based on charing with a mount. For some reason I just do not really enjoy lance charging that much.
Why I like the samurai more I get resolve which is better than a teamwork feat I think resolve is awesome.Re-rolls on fort and will saves. Resolve is better than the lackluster teamwork feats as I see them resolve lets you do awesome things. Also less focused on charging while mounted the only real mount tied ability is the mounted archery. Instead of trainer and the charging abilities.
The Prime minister (replacement for king) in our kingmaker game is a cavalier. And one thing i've noticed, is he would a very poor addition to a 4 person party. We are a large group, and have several 'combatant' characters, but if we weren't he wouldn't serve well as the only one. He is dramatically more mobile then the rest of outdoors, and he uses rideby attack (to very good effect), which means he doesnt do much to get between squishy casters and the enemies. I think in small groups you wont see alot of cavaliers because though they are awesome, they dont fit the role of the warrior character in the 4 person party very well.
I agree, the Cavalier class is a good one. While the cavalier in our campaign was absolutely deadly while on horseback, he was also effective on foot. I think it is worth considering if one is looking for a martial class with some extra flavor. The orders make for some interesting plot lines and adventure hook ideas which is an added bonus. So as the DM I have to say that I like having a cavalier in the group, but we do have a large group so that makes a difference to be sure.
The samurai that I am currently playing is essentially a cavalier variant, and he has been very effective so far. Lots of fun to play during my brief break from DM'ing.
Kobold cavalier on a velociraptor.
Run.
OH MY GOD I WANT TO PLAY THAT SO BAD
Ahem. It sounds pretty damn awesome.
The Prime minister (replacement for king) in our kingmaker game is a cavalier. And one thing i've noticed, is he would a very poor addition to a 4 person party. We are a large group, and have several 'combatant' characters, but if we weren't he wouldn't serve well as the only one. He is dramatically more mobile then the rest of outdoors, and he uses rideby attack (to very good effect), which means he doesnt do much to get between squishy casters and the enemies. I think in small groups you wont see alot of cavaliers because though they are awesome, they dont fit the role of the warrior character in the 4 person party very well.
Now I think that is just one way to play it. I plan on taking Order of the Shield and intentionally setting myself between the enemies and the rest of the party. Combat Relexes combines nicely with the 8th level order ability, and while mounted you can control a larger area.
Your player is sacrificing defending his allies for increased damage. Its a luxury he has, but not one every cavalier must make.
Cavalier is bada$$. (In my opinion anyway)
I'm playing a halfling Chevalier/Bard riding a wolf. It's small enough so that anywhere the party is going, the wolf can br brought with. Thoroughly enjoying it.
IMO it's because cavaliers need to be mounted and let's be honest a lot of campaings aren't horse friendly. Also i think that being a mounted combatant requires a certain amount of coordination from the rest of the party and i don't think that every party can do that.
Cavaliers also have some non-magic party buffs and the ability to share teamwork feats all your allies.
IMO it's because cavaliers need to be mounted and let's be honest a lot of campaings aren't horse friendly. Also i think that being a mounted combatant requires a certain amount of coordination from the rest of the party and i don't think that every party can do that.Cavaliers also have some non-magic party buffs and the ability to share teamwork feats all your allies.
This. A halfling order of the dragon that does none mounted combat, instead using his dog as a flank buddy, or bodyguard can really frustrate attackers and help defend his allies.
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Advanced Options: Cavaliers’ Orders from Super Genius Games presents six new orders for cavaliers, doubling the number of orders available to cavaliers from the Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide.
Check it out >>> HERE <<<
Here's a quick overview of the 6 cavalier orders:
Order of the Gauntlet: The order of the gauntlet holds that stalwart service to duty in the face of all threats and difficulties is the highest expression of honor. Cavaliers of this order are fearless warriors who work tirelessly to accomplish their goals, finding the struggle as important as the end goal.
Order of the Glaive: A cavalier belonging to the order of the glaive is dedicated to justice, equality, and the rule of law. These cavaliers are pledged to overthrow tyranny and seek out injustice no matter how well hidden. They follow strict codes of conduct and tend to be as unyielding and unbending as the weapons they favor.
Order of the Griffon: Devoted to freedom and the rights of the individual, these cavaliers believe in mutual respect and friendship. They are champions of the lower classes and implacable foes of slavery. In time their dedication to freedom draws the devoted service of a griffon mount, which grants them the ultimate freedom: the ability to fly.
Order of the Rose: Cavaliers who join the order of the rose devote their lives to the cause of good. Cavaliers of the rose are often closely connected to a church or religion. These cavaliers stand for justice, righteousness, and aiding those in need. Known as skilled healers, cavaliers of the rose tend to be much beloved by commoners.
Order of the Secret Flame: This order consists of those dedicated to protecting the secret flame, a concept used by these cavaliers to represent ancient or arcane knowledge. Although essentially still men-at-arms with just a smattering of arcane talent, the cavaliers of this order have a great respect for, and impressive knowledge of, arcane power.
Order of the Skull: Cavaliers of the skull are ruthless pursuers of power for themselves and their order, and they believe the philosophy of evil is the fastest, most reliable path to gain that power. They embrace evil as a noble lifestyle of self improvement, and they destroy champions of good, who are enemies of everything for which their order of the skull stands.
If the Golarion campaign setting had chocobos to overcome stairs and dungeons, everybody would give the Cavaliers more love.
I'm playing a cavalier in Kingmaker right now and having a ball with the class. That said, Kingmaker is especially friendly to a mounted class, most APs are not. I like the skill mix and flavor of the class, the classic mounted knight for the most part.
Don't play one if you expect to outdamage everyone else, becuase you won't. They do ok, but can't keep up with fighters in melee. A cavalier's massive damage output is limited to a mounted charge on the target of their challenge so it's limited per day.
If the Golarion campaign setting had chocobos to overcome stairs and dungeons, everybody would give the Cavaliers more love.
You want axe beak?
My group doesn't like the extra work that comes with Animal Companions. Like I have Paladin in my King Maker game that thought the horse was better deal than the weapon for Divine bond but chose the weapon due the not wanting to stat up a horse.
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If a campaign can handle mounts well, a cavalier should be fine. If it can't, the cavalier will not be very good IF the party has other heavy melee characters (paladin, fighter, and barbarian).
A cavalier is tolerable if the feats don't go to mounted combat. If you know the campaign suits mounts, go cavalier and mounted combat feats. If you don't know and still want to play cavalier, do NOT go mounted combat. You'll just end up screwing yourself doubly so.
The real problem with the cavalier is that teamwork feats aren't great, and they don't have abilities that really really synergize with their other abilities. Ability to train mounts just isn't very useful overall. Teamwork feats at low levels are kind of meh. At high levels they become better. Challenges are solid if unspectacular in most cases. The mounted stuff are very very good, but of course works only when mounted. Banners aren't particularly good unless there's lots of mounted charge.
That's why the samurai v1.0 is better overall, but worse while mounted. If it wasn't the fact I would have to keep changing my character (since it's in beta), I would play the samurai as is every time when I am unsure how useful a mount will be.
I'm only at the start of Kingmaker, but so far my half-orc order of the dragon cavalier 2 going the way of mounted combat has lost significant combat power as soon as he dismounts (my Mounted Combat feat does nothing, my teamwork feat Swap Places is mainly defensive for getting casters out of things). We'll see what happens in another few levels.
I'm playing a cavalier in Kingmaker right now and having a ball with the class. That said, Kingmaker is especially friendly to a mounted class, most APs are not. I like the skill mix and flavor of the class, the classic mounted knight for the most part.
Don't play one if you expect to outdamage everyone else, becuase you won't. They do ok, but can't keep up with fighters in melee. A cavalier's massive damage output is limited to a mounted charge on the target of their challenge so it's limited per day.
Nobody outdamages a fighter all day long.
Against their challenge?
Depends on the order- A TWF OOTShield will
A dragon cav won't but buffs the party almost as much as a bard (+5 to hit for allies)
Cavs would be wise to take combat reflexes- paired opportunists and outflank generates a lot of free hits.
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Kobold cavalier on a velociraptor.
Run.
Idea stolen.
I think when my Kobold Barbarian decides to form a grand, new kobold society somewhere farther north he may just start up a Kobold Cavalry division comprised entirely of Raptor-mounted Kobolds. The River Kingdoms may just fall one-by-one shortly thereafter.
well atleast nobody suggested a fairy or brownine on a cockroach/grasshopper mount.......
though it would be ammusing thought...
It's a pixie riding a stirge, come on get it right! ;D