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my other idea is involving araneas somehow, maybe replacing the gibbering mothers in the trader's bowl.
Cool idea. You could also give them a corner of the Merchant district. With no dominant tribe there, they could carve out their own little corner. Maybe fight now and then with the kech nest (the only other sizable group in that district).
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Tbug,
I've been thinking about the same issue.
I'm planning on telling the party that the slopes all around are tiered but mostly overgrown. The exceptions are a sizable banana and coconut plantation behind the monkey men (Bananas for eating, coconuts as amunnition for the Throw Anything feat) and most of the slopes behind the Artizan District.
I changed Ossand to be a Juju Oracle. With the revelation, Spirit Vessels, he can control 54 HD of undead. He uses this to create a work force of Juju zombies to do the farming. Also, he uses the False Death revelation to turn any "trespassers" into helpful farm hands. In addition, the population listing of 280 people is only combat effective members. The tribe could easily have twice as many level 1 commoners. These can do the farming, as well. Finally, the Tribe has 280 rangers, they should be able to forge and hunt for additional food.
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I greatly enjoyed DMing the first two modules in this series, but the total lack of maps in Seven Spears is making it nearly impossible for me, especially since we play online. What maps did people use for all the major encounters in the city? Does anyone have maps they can share?
Thanks in advance...
i'm actually working on maps right now, i'll post them as soon as i'm able. not sure when that will be as life is rather busy right now, maybe by monday:)
This thread is fairly old, but since I'm currently running this adventure....
I found that some of the encounters went better if I doubled them up. Part of this may be that my group likes "holy crap, we almost died again!" encounters. For instance, I put a Serpentfolk patrol with the Rakashasa to make it more difficult, and the huge snake thing was tamed and helping the guards at the Pillar, so that the party had to fight the snake and the four serpentfolk guards to capture the pillar. Basically, whenever there was a single plot monster, I'd drop a patrol in to support it, and if the party was going to skip a plot monster I went ahead and made it part of some other encounter.
Anyway, my party just conquered both the Serpentfolk Islands and the military district in the same game day. Since the Ziggurrats are the most notable landmarks, the party has just been going from one to the other, killing any monsters along the way.
However, when I went to prepare the southern half of the city, I noticed that the patrols of CR 4 creatures (which was difficult enough to keep my party having fun killing them) had been replaces with CR 1 enemies. Really? CR 1 enemies can only hit my party on natural 20s, and do hardly any damage.
My solution? I gave the advanced vegipygmis 3 extra HD (bringing them up to CR 4), made the Boggard Subchiefs the standard Boggard enemies rather than group leaders (again, CR 4 each), and made the Acolytes of Achaekek the standard Trog enemies rather than the advanced ones (yet again, CR 4).
Oh, and since I'm making the Red Mantis one of my main villains, I beefed them up. Instead of being CR 8, I made Chivane CR 14 - she's a 10th level Red Mantis Assassin with improved stats (Str and Con 14) and better equipment. I have her backed up with the CR 7 Red Mantis Assassins from the Crimson Throne adventure path in addition to the Red Mantis priests listed in the normal adventure. Also a pack of trained Jungle Mantises.
So yeah, that's how I keep things interesting. Also not lingering on the "uncovering the mysteries" - a few Knowledge checks, a scholar NPC gushing over the latest discovery, a small XP and gold reward - done. And then the party is off to conquer another district. Or negotiate, if the patrol doesn't attack on sight. Since that only really applies to the human tribe (where the party hasn't yet explored) that aspect hasn't come up yet.
agree to most of that, though I just skipped the vegie area and had another faction take it over.
My players decided they are sick of Savinth-Yhi. I've made a side quest to open a trade route with the mana wastes to let them get out of town for awhile.
That's why I'm beefing up the Red Mantis - some interesting antagonistic to wreck up the place.
As far as party boredom - the main issue so far is the lack of a "main plot" - my players are used to saving the world most campaigns, so "discovering a lost city and exploring it" is kinda dull for them.
For that reason, I'm actually considering cutting out some of Vaults of Madness to speed the "fight Serpentfolk to save the world" part of the plot, which my group will likely find more interesting. Disease checks got old on Smuggler's Shiv - I can't imagine they'll be any more fun now.
Zelgadas,
I modified the Boggards much the same way you did. For the Troglodytes I added a high level druid as the overall leader with a number of lower level druids to distract.
I've pulled the vegipygmies entirely and changed that area to one that is heavily overgrown. There are a number of excellent killer plants & slimes to throw in and make the place into a truly alien experience rather than another group of humanoids to bargain with / slaughter.
Hopefully the party will find it feels appropriately strange and creepy.
I should probably add some pugwumpies to provide a feeling of true dread.
Well, the Boggard nation has been destroyed, their Green God felled. That was a rather epic battle - the chief led the party to the Froghemoth and then stuck around to fight those that didn't end up in melee. The sorceress with 12 con ended up soloing him while the rest of the party fought the Froghemoth. She probably wouldn't have survived without a lucky Acid Pit spell.
I think the primary hook for this adventure is the competition with the other factions. If you have signs of other factions you can spark a bit of competitive spirit from your PCs. Where this might be difficult is if your PCs got a sizable lead on the others or they just don't really care.
I did a couple of things to try to spark a bit of interest and energise my players for this one that might work for other groups.
1) I put in huge vaults under the temple of Abadar. I made the vaults magically sealed by combinations and have sprinkled clues throughout the city. I actually made the tiles and put them out in front of the guys. I've also given them the option to have the expedition contribute to unlocking the vault which has been good as it gives a way for the expedition to give something back to the PCs. So yeah basically the PCs have a motivation to crawl through ruins and explore to try to find hints at which tile goes with which vault and in what order. I plan to make the vaults massive with signs that great wealthy has been taken, but will put in some minor wealth. Sort of look at all these empty armour stands and yet 1-2 10k armours remain. Ditto for weapon racks. Sprinkle some other lesser magical items (scrolls, potions, minor rings and lesser wonderous items) with some small chests left behind and suddenly there's some motivation.
Should be a great set up for the next book with its vaults. "If the ones they left behind were great then imagine what these ones will be like". The trick will be to make it look logical for why this stuff was left behind. I'm thinking stuff left under tipped over racks, cubbards, chests, etc that have been forgotten. Sort of make it look like they packed as much as they could in great haste.
Verdict: Very effective so far. The group currently hasn't opened a vault, but have really taken to the tiles. By having made them (bits of cardboard with a picture glued on) its created a physical and interactive component to the game. I probably went a bit overboard in creating too many tiles (I made 50 with majority false ones not in combinations). Requires a bit of work as you have to find pictures, cut up cardboard, think of organisations and stories behind the combinations that you can leek to the players.
2) I tried to use Savith's ghost to hint at the coming danager and build a storyline of a group of heroes known as Spear Wardens who were bound to the spears. By activating the spears the ghost would appear and give a warning about a danger that stirs below. She urged the PCs to find the Hall of Heroes and become the heroes they were meant to be. The PCs found the Hall and encountered another ghost who was the training master. To become Spear Wardens they would first need to complete the test. For this I used the module The Harrowing.
We're still in the middle of it. I've tweaked it a bit and have implied that in the coming destruction of Saventh-Yhi the creator fled into the realm and was turned on by the conspirators. Slowly over time the realm has twisted and the inhabitants have had real world people be drawn in who have shaped it. Basically to explain why this test created by an ancient city has carnivals in it (think how silly it would be to learn that ancient greece had carnies).
The Verdict: I don't think this has been all that effective. The group wasn't looking for a save the world campaign. Should have stopped at the first one and left this out.
I'm bumping this thread so I don't have to scroll so far down to find it every time I want to refer to it. I'm definitely stealing some ideas from this thread. Thanks for making my job as DM easier with this very difficult to run adventure path.
I just finished Racing to Ruin, so I’ll need to reference this thread later. Thanks to everyone for the great ideas.
My only additional ideas are;
• I need more dinosaurs. I think of pair of T-rex’s will have a den somewhere and maybe a den of velociraptors elsewhere.
• I’m getting rid of one of the factions in exchange for an undead sector. Perhaps, at its center are vampires who are in some form of stasis from the time of the earthfall. The area is protected by undead minions, and as the city is getting explored, something triggers the mechanism to re-awaken the vampire masters.
• I may also replace one sector or an a sector with golems that have gone haywire over the centuries, still patrolling ancient research centers, and now attacking anything on site.
• I’m getting rid of one of the factions in exchange for an undead sector. Perhaps, at its center are vampires who are in some form of stasis from the time of the earthfall. The area is protected by undead minions, and as the city is getting explored, something triggers the mechanism to re-awaken the vampire masters
Good idea. Remember that Zura is ablood drinking demon lady worhipped by the guys whos et up the temple in book 1. Maybe the Players who wre exposed to her temple cause them to awaken?
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I did something similar. Added in several extra chambers behind secret doors dedicated to Zura in the Silent Vaults. Kind of a tie in back to the cult that escaped to Smuggler's Shiv. Players were pretty excited when they recognized the wall carvings as dedicated to Zura and it actually felt like they were discovering/unraveling a mystery.
You could even add in your vampire district without changing too much if you want. The tower with the ghosts might keep the troglodytes from the Temple District from getting to the ruins up around the Silent Vaults. Add in your vampires in the "upper" Temple district (around L5) and just keep Lessikal and his trogs in the lower ruins.(L1-L3'ish)
OR if the vampires start waking up and attacking the troglodytes (or another district), the current residents would be pretty willing to make an alliance with the PCs if the party could stop the vampires. The longer they take... the more vampire spawn. Just another way to potentially ally with a district instead of the grinding combat-fest that CoSS can be as written.
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I am guessing it is never too early to start fleshing out this section of the AP (the PCs and their very loyal castaways have just arrived in Eleder). I think after reading this book and the warnings about just how sparse this “sandbox” is I decided to get some ideas together. I like including some extra places to explore, placing the Vaults of Madness within the descriptions of the areas. Adding things like great vaults under the temple of Abadar and hiding the Mantis blade sound like great things to do just to keep things interesting and that faction in town long enough to be part of the endgame.
For my group I will be adding some interest to discovering the mysteries—the PCs seem really invested in studying the ruins of Saventh-Yhi themselves. So things like puzzle-tiles and hunting out clues to unlock them are really great and imaginative things to add – thank you for sharing that idea. I have decided good physical descriptions are needed for each area and the city as a whole. Also, there needs to be something more than a river canyon and a couple of uninteresting monsters who just happen to be hanging out guarding the entrance to this ancient city.
Doubling up on the encounters is something I do too. My PCs like the feeling of being on the edge of what they can handle.
More dinosaurs are always a great idea, and T-Rex sounds like a great way to beat up the characters a bit. =)
I think adding another bit about Zura's cult just to complete that story would work well. again, thanks for a great idea!
The architecture is characterized by tall and slender multi-hued, tiered towers, broad domes supported by slender columns, ornate fountains and large monuments. The outer faces of the ziggurats are columned and have galleries along the base. Inside I plan on a great many mosaic floors and decorative stone benches carved into the walls. Many of the buildings and towers are made of stone in pastel shades, some in darker stone. Every column, arch, support, and buttress has decorative carvings that match the theme of the district.
On the way out there are a lot more choices that would lead to doom. Some of the “major” river channels lead to waterfalls that drop hundreds of feet into blade-lined, spike bottomed pits and on to underground rivers with no air pockets. Taking the wrong path on the way out (or taking that sharp left-hand turn I mentioned earlier) leads to dead ends with murder-holes, clever slide traps into pits of green slime, etc.
Zura!! I knew I was forgetting something. That's who'll I'll use. I also like the idea of just adding the lair in the city. It can just be a small sector that the current inhabitants avoid. And then once the vampires awaken, it causes more conflict.
Okay, here's what I don't get from reading most of these replies. The exploration of the city, to get the full story of the founding, and exactly what Savith was there to do (go down to Ilmurea and kill a GOD), and the fact that Saventh-Yhi was placed there to guard the eventual uprising of the Serpentfolk, is the spur that leads into the next book.
Playing down those discoveries for the sake of the fights is cutting out a crucial part of the story.
So here's some tips for spicing that up. Have each district tell a portion of the story, so that the PCs have to figure out the order of the story.
Remember that they have to clear a district in order to really be able to spend the time needed to research the area, too. So they can go in and try, but they should be interrupted often enough that they get the picture.
By using the research to allude to the fact that Savith realized the job wasn't finished, the PCs should start to get that feeling of "oh crap..." Also, if you did your job with Yazoth, the PCs should realize that Yazoth is trying to resurrect Ydersius, which should make the PCs really realize that activity in Savith-Yhi, ESPECIALLY by Serpentfolk is BAD BAD BAD.
Yazoth also survived in my campaign, as did the Serpentfolk sorcerer from book 2, so they'll be making comebacks in Saventh-Yhi, at the head of the Serpentfolk, which should also spur the PCs. (In my game they HATED both of them, so seeing them again should have them just about frothing at the mouth.)
The key, I think, to running the third event is to not just let rolls dictate much of what goes on, as allow it to present you with opportunity to play out events. If the rolls say they discover something, have them have to go into a broken down collapsed building, with a few critters there, before they find it. Then describe what they find to give it flavor. If you just roll the dice and say "You find the history." It'll bore your players to tears. If they roll the dice, and you have them seek out the lore, and then give them the middle part of the story of Saventh-Yhi, they'll have fun, and have a reason to want to find the rest of it.
It's all in the presentation.
Just started my groups jaunt into the city, and the first session has them loving it!
I created a random number generator in excel and rolled out all of the defense, exploration and supply rolls for the month that the PCs are in for the Golarion calendar, so it's easy to check to see what camps are damaged, how many disc points etc they have. I also did the same for all the wandering encounter rolls the pcs will have for the same span. It was easy for me at that point to start piecing together encounters and having them make sense.
The PCs started, unlike so many other GMS are saying, by heading directly for the military district. So I played up the spartan nature of the buildings, describing them as very Aztec in nature (never understood why people would have them be greco roman in the jungle). With frescoes and paintings along the doors and walls. The PCs then wanted a better look. The fighter, Davos, specifically wanted to find a map, and maybe some kind of military deployment schedule. I used that for the first discovery roll for the party, and they rolled high. So I gave them a very old map, that they had to be careful with due to its age (I determined that the preservation magic worked best on buildings, not so much on material items, or remains). By describing the rooms as almost dormitories, and describing oddly shaped armor (form still remaining, but useless), the PCs started to put together some history. I embellished some, and they started trying to figure out ranks from the different armor. I rolled with it and ad libbed some, but it made the discoveries more interesting for the PCs. They did this for about an hour and a half real time before it started to lose some steam.
The whole time that they were searching the ruins, I kept rolling perception checks at a high DC, to see if any patrols, or some of the 100-200 Charau-ka living there would notice, adding a +1 to the roll for every in game hour they spent still searching. Eventually, after the party had taken a break for the heat in the middle of the day, the party decided to investigate the "fort on top of the hill", but ran into a patrol along the way. The Charau-ka (who my party has grown to HATE) started their shrieking frenzy, and as the fight went on, I had the fort come alive with watchers. The fight actually took some time, and the fighter took a goodly bit of damage, but having 105 hp already (high con, + toughness, and taking the hp instead of the sp), made it so he really wasn't worried. When the Charau-ka dropped, I described the fort as having a LOT of watchers, trying to discourage them from going after Olujimi right away, since I though he might be a bit for them to handle. The sorceress, Trianna, decided to lob a few fireballs into the place, "just to see". Out came Olujimi, his dire apes, and a decent retinue of Charau-Ka. The sorceress thought this was great, and cast another fireball at Olujimi, who resisted the whole thing.
The party came up with a different tactic...RUN!!! Away they went, but rather than running back the way they came, they decided to run for the plaza..... So, out come the Girallons from the plaza, and a screeching halt by the PCs, who now are heading due south. At that point, I called it a night, since it was already past our quit time, and I knew that a battle with that many combatants was going to take time.
So, next week, I'm going to begin with a skill challenge for the pursuit. I figure I'll add in some damage from the buildings, since they're going to run right through the area the book says most of the Charau-ka are housed. So they'll get pelted with paving stones, roof tiles etc as they run. I figure acrobatics, climb, or CMB will be some of the skills (dodge, jump over, climb to roof, or simply bull through obstacles), and if the PCs manage 6 successes vs 3 failures, they'll elude the pursuit. Unless they veer towards another encounter area, at which point it'll start all over again. Either way, the military district is now on alert.
So my characters will finally reach Saventh-Yhi next session. Fortunately, I have a couple of weeks' time to prepare, as I realize I need to do some heavy preparation. Hope I can bother you fine folks with some questions.
1: I see references to (both here and in the module) about a max number of clues available in a given district. 20? Where does this number come from?
2: When approacthing the city for the first time, how much of the city's native inhabitants is visible/audible for the characters. With so many creatures in the different districts, I find it unlikely that everyone is really quiet. I would guess the charau-ka from the military district can be heard, as well as some of the flying monsters from the mercantile district.
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1. Actually I seem to remember that in the module there's NO limit to the number of discovery points that can be found in a district. This led to a couple tables where players went into one district, secured/conquered it and just sat there earning their 120 points without moving.
That's why several others suggested 15-20 pts max in any one district. That forces the PCs to move around and explore for their camp more. I personally went with 15 myself. That was 15 in each of the seven districts (for 105 discovery points) and then 15 pts that could be accomplished anywhere (for final cross referencing and doubling checking some mapping errors, etc) for a total of 120 discovery points.
2. Despite what the overhead map might look like, the city has a lot of undergrowth. Think of it more as the picture on pg 58. So even though the Seven Spears are clearly visible, not a whole lot else is aside from some of the bigger buildings. Plus with the heat and humidity of the jungle, often there's going to be a thick jungle mist (especially early in the morning or towards evening).
Bottom line is you can feel free to tell the players they see as much or as little as you like. If you want them to spot shadowy shapes of charou-ki running through the streets in the jungle mist below... go for it! Or have most of the jungle natives stay inside during the hottest parts of the day and come out to hunt at night.
As far as audible noises, the city is probably VERY loud. Lots of jungle birds and monkeys. Remember this for Perception checks as well (-1 per 5 ft instead of 10 ft I believe... can't remember exactly)
Hope that helps some!
2: When approacthing the city for the first time, how much of the city's native inhabitants is visible/audible for the characters. With so many creatures in the different districts, I find it unlikely that everyone is really quiet. I would guess the charau-ka from the military district can be heard, as well as some of the flying monsters from the mercantile district.
My players are also going to enter Saventh-Yhi in our next session and I wondered about the same thing.
First I thought about how many Azlanti were actually living in Saventh-Yhi back then. Given the size of the place, I thought that there could be around 10,000 to 20,000 people. Today, the total is about 2,000 for all the various tribes. So I think the city would feel somewhat empty. I don't think that the PCs would notice that it is populated with Charau-ka or what not until they meet a patrol.Although, then I thought about night time. The humans in the Artisan district don't have darkvision (the only tribe that doesn't). They may light up fires at night near the shore for their defences. I thought this could be a way to draw my players to the Radiant Muse. Personnaly, I plan to swap the Serpentfolk tribe with Lizardfolk which also do not have darkvision so the island would be light up at night.
I have a question of my own, about the expedition camps. There is a limit for buying and selling of 2500gp. Did anybody also place a limit on the caster level of magic items (like scrolls) that the PCs can purchase?
1. Actually I seem to remember that in the module there's NO limit to the number of discovery points that can be found in a district. This led to a couple tables where players went into one district, secured/conquered it and just sat there earning their 120 points without moving.
Actually, on p. 10 it says something like: "It's probable that the PCs will need to explore several districts as their expedition effectively 'mines' out the clues for each one".
But I didn't find any further references to it.
I also want to split the clues across all the districts, so that the PCs need to visit more than one, and/or possibly ally with factions (either from the race or from the city itself). I am thinking of having some of the factions ally/explore districts themselves. I am not really sure what the authors intended, but I am not going to have the factions sit in the camp and have the character's do all the work.
2. Despite what the overhead map might look like, the city has a lot of undergrowth. Think of it more as the picture on pg 58. So even though the Seven Spears are clearly visible, not a whole lot else is aside from some of the bigger buildings.
True. Also, Maplewood raises an interesting point with fires in the night. If I time the arrival to the morning mist, they might not be able to see much, but I think it would be cool for them to see some the winged creatures or to hear some of the charau-ka and other wildlife. Maybe a combat is taking place on the island (area F) at night?
Giving them the impression that it's largely empty at first is a good idea, and then I will sprinkle in impressions that it might not be as uninhabited as they think.
Maplewood: I think I will handwave logic when it comes to your question about caster levels. I know that my players are concerned that they won't get a chance to return to a city to re-stock, so I need to build some sort of community there where trade can take place. At least until Teleport becomes available.
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Actually, on p. 10 it says something like: "It's probable that the PCs will need to explore several districts as their expedition effectively 'mines' out the clues for each one".
But I didn't find any further references to it.
Ah! Good catch! But you're right, as far as I know that quote isn't supported by any of the rules in the exploration section.
Bottom line was that the "20 discovery points/district" number you might have seen thrown around was just created by other DMs.Or the 15 number that I used.
Also, Maplewood raises an interesting point with fires in the night. If I time the arrival to the morning mist, they might not be able to see much, but I think it would be cool for them to see some the winged creatures or to hear some of the charau-ka and other wildlife. Maybe a combat is taking place on the island (area F) at night?
I used campfires to mostly give away the current locations of the other expeditions as well. And the sounds of loud combat between locals and the expeditions were certainly heard (if another camp got attacked for instance).
But slowly revealing the existence of the other large residence and the tribes of locals sounds like a great idea. I hadn't thought about hearing battles between the local tribes but that's a great idea too! Especially between the charou-ki and serpentfolk across the bridge or the boggards, trogs and humans along the lake to the south/southwest.All very good mood setters!
Giving them the impression that it's largely empty at first is a good idea, and then I will sprinkle in impressions that it might not be as uninhabited as they think.
This is a great one and more the route I took. They spotted some of the random encounters to set the mood but I didn't reveal to much of the tribes until they went in the district (or a camp got attacked by them). But I like the idea of a slow reveal that there's a lot more organized tribes in the city than the PCs may be expecting. Nice!
Anyone done anything about the lack of treasure in Saventh-Yhi? I read somewhere that this could be an issue. Even though it was hyped to be the discovery that could lead the Sargavans into financial independence from the Free Captains, it doesn't have to be that way..
Still, I was thinking that while the various tribes have grabbed what they can of shiny objects and gold, perhaps there are a great deal of lesser objects (everything from art to mundane objects such as utensils) that might fetch a good price from collectors.
I was thinking that the PCs could, in a "conquered" area, decide to go scavenging for the day (instead of, let's say, search for clues to the founding, spears etc.). Any day spent searching yields d6 x 100 gp, or twice that with a successful Perception 25 check (anyone can aid). Each district has d10 x 1000 gp in total.
Is this too much? My group's deal with the Sargavans and Pathfinders leaves them with only 40 % of the treasure anyway.
Anyone done anything about the lack of treasure in Saventh-Yhi? I read somewhere that this could be an issue. Even though it was hyped to be the discovery that could lead the Sargavans into financial independence from the Free Captains, it doesn't have to be that way..
Still, I was thinking that while the various tribes have grabbed what they can of shiny objects and gold, perhaps there are a great deal of lesser objects (everything from art to mundane objects such as utensils) that might fetch a good price from collectors.
I was thinking that the PCs could, in a "conquered" area, decide to go scavenging for the day (instead of, let's say, search for clues to the founding, spears etc.). Any day spent searching yields d6 x 100 gp, or twice that with a successful Perception 25 check (anyone can aid). Each district has d10 x 1000 gp in total.
Is this too much? My group's deal with the Sargavans and Pathfinders leaves them with only 40 % of the treasure anyway.
It's a good idea, I think. I prefer to make it constantly clear just how empty a lot of Saventh-Yhi has become, personally. But the opposite might be better. A place that seems like, due to the restorative magics, that it had only very recently been lived in. There's something way more eerie about that than a ruined empty city. I am smacking my own face for not realizing just how perfect that is.
Personally I've been placing magic things in mundane places. A torn up tarp covered in overgrown vines reveals itself to be an easily repairable cloak of the diplomat. That statue holding up the mace is actually holding a everlasting aspergillum. The Wavecutter is a way stronger weapon. The vrykolakas is wearing a hyena spirit skin from his past life, unable to use it without a living body but still yearning for its primal power for reasons it can't understand. I've been trying to show that this place used to be crawling with magic. Fighting magic. Eventually, I hope this helps reveal that the place was designed as a city but also as a fortress. We'll see how it works out.
In other news: I've recently done away with Egzimora. I liked her, she was a cool character, but I liked the idea of an alien world of plant infestation a lot more. So I replaced her with two creatures. Egzimora has become the old self-proclaimed guardian of the jungle. A huge Earth Elemental, Egzimora used her Earth Glide to become one with the soil and fight from below and such. However, recently, Egzimora's link to the soil made her fertile ground which a particularly deadly strain of V. fungus rested (a violet fungus with 7 levels of druid, no less). The fungus could not make the elemental into a zombie, but still controls her brain, and now the two fight as one terrifying creature, killing all nonplant life. It'll be a fun encounter I think, sort of like fighting a mounted wizard on an absolutely terrifying mount.
I completely didn't realize the city was supposed to look fairly empty. I'm having tribes running around left and right. I don't really care. Turns out my players are like 30% about Indiana Jones style temple searches and 50% about NPC interaction and political intrigue. The other 20% is about making jokes. They also give 110% when the other 10% is ruining my day.
Does anyone else not like the idea of all these races here just chilling and noone has left and hence led to the discovery of the city? Or the very videogame-y aspect of a bunch of dictricts with different races fighting?
My group is just starting the second book. I just really dont like this book as written. Is there any plausible explanation on how this works? How are all these sentient races here and noone has found this place?
There are powerful magics in place to prevent someone from discovering it by chance. The magic in the spears apparently keeps the residents from wanting to move out of the district...
OK.
Here's a fair enough point: the sentient races here would never get to stay here if the civilized world found out. Many of them are fugitives and monsters, and the fact that the city is cloaked a big reason why they're there. Furthermore, the spears grant them all a certain power and mindset, and over long periods of time this power is addicting. They don't want to leave because they're addicted to the effects of their particular spear.
If you consider the "different race in each spear" video gamey, there's not too much that can be done. However, my group hasn't seen it that way at all just yet. The many races gives the group a ton of opportunities to interact with different people, forming alliances and doing battle, all sorts of things. It's a chance to do some very different styles of play.
hmm i must have glossed over or missed the spears having an eldritch influence on the races. i can run with that a bit more. Its just hard to suspend the belief that not one boggard left and then was captured and let slip oh her magic city over yonder. BUT the eldritch influence helps tons.
on a related note i have no clue which faction my pcs are going to run with. They are as follow:
AAsimar Monk of the 4 Winds
Samsaran Witch
Sylph Druid
Orc Fighter
Catfolk Rogue
Gnome Alchemist
Tiefling Magus
I put a dragon in the passageway to the valley as I figured a large predator would serve as a great deterrent for anyone getting too close to the city. It would also serve as a deterrent for anyone trying to get out.
Personnaly, I plan to swap the Serpentfolk tribe with Lizardfolk which also do not have darkvision so the island would be light up at night.
It's weird because quite a few people have complained that there aren't enough sertpentfolk early on (before Books 5 and 6?). However, I also find myself eliminating serpentfolk from the story.
For example, I have removed Issilar from Tazion. Instead the charau-ku are agents of the gorilla king who have taken over the city. They don't know what they've found but they are close to activating the pillars.
I can buy Sozothala and his undead serpentfolk being hidden from the Azlanti.
Thus far, the only Serpentfolk my character have met was Yarzoth. Here's what Yarzoth knew:
Some time ago, while exploring the dungeons below the ruined serpentfolk fortress of Viperwall in Varisia,
Yarzoth discovered something shocking. According to her discovery, an ancient serpentfolk temple hidden on Smuggler’s Shiv contains a clue to the location of a legendary city named Saventh-Yhi—the same city in which her deity was defeated eons ago. Eager to learn more and perhaps discover the legendary ruined city (and maybe even relics left behind by her god’s ancient decapitation)...
Then, I wonder to myself about the serpentfolk in Saventh-Yhi:
This district has been the lair of a tribe of degenerate serpentfolk for centuries. Although descended (if one goes back far enough) from the denizens of Ilmurea far below, these serpentfolk have no idea that below Saventh-Yhi lies a second city—a city tied to their own legacies.
This is too bad and I may actually keep Issilar in Saventh-Yhi and have him somehow have discovered Ilmurea and be plotting to get back in there. Not sure yet. My major concern - and tell me how you've figured this out - is how these degenerates got into Saventh-Yhi.
The last major serpentfolk connection is Vyr-Azul. He reads like Yarzoth 2.0:
In far-off Sverenagati, a serpentfolk priest of Ydersius named Vyr- Azul learned of the existence of Ilmurea, and realized that his god’s severed head might very well still remain in the forgotten city. Vyr-Azul gathered an army of serpentfolk and journeyed through the Darklands to Ilmurea.
Granted we get all the gritty details of how Vyr-Azul came by this information and how the process from his orginal spiritual revival to arrival in Ilmurea took years. I really would like to build in some connections between Vyr-Azul and Yarzoth - maybe when he first started to believe Ydersius survived in some form and sent her to Viperwall to look for old lore. Maybe she was his mate or his daughter?
In the long run, I really want this campaign to have more coherence. Book 1 really puts in a hook - the serpentfolk are coming back and they are looking for Saventh-Yhi. This doesn't really have any consequences until Book 5. In between, PCs look for an ancient city to loot and fight other factions and the inhabitants. How have you all kept the serpentfolk relevant from Book 1 to Book 5?
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Some changes I made to Egzimora
Actually, not really a new take. I made a whole new character, but I kept the name. It's the happiest I've ever been with something I made myself, so I'd like to share it all with you guys.
Background
The original Egzimora is a hag sorceress. She's obsessed with turning people into plants, which is pretty wild. But something about this encounter bugged me to no end. I think it was that verdant sorcerers still don't really feel all that plant themed. Or perhaps that Akarundo also existed, and had a lot more reign to move around the map than the seductress did. But mostly I was bothered that the region best characterized by the alien nature of plant people had as one of its major threats what was essentially very human. I wanted a new enemy instead, which would play up the plant magic idea while also giving a "cold nature of a very nonhuman creature" vibe to things. Here's what I came up with:
History
People from all districts of Saventh-Yhi sometimes talk of Egzimora, the guardian of the jungle. This huge Earth elemental once protected the jungle from those who would harm it, and protected those who would be harmed by it. But recently, she has vanished, and the jungle is no longer safe.
Egzimora is naturally still alive, but on her back is a violet fungus (this particular violet fungus is a violet fungus Druid 7. This allows the creature to actually be two very different creatures, helping the action economy and forcing the PCs to make decisions about what to attack when the battle does come). The PCs might assume the violet fungus is in control of the earth elemental, but further discussion shows that Egzimora is still the one in control (partly so that in combat the group doesn't just target and kill the parasite and call it a day). Egzimora though has gone mad, perhaps do to the parasite but perhaps not. She now believes the jungle must inevitably expand, and that all creatures of the flesh exist solely to fertilize the jungle. A couple other thoughts on the matter:
- Egzimora does not leave the jungle so long as bodies keep coming in to fertilize the plants. She'll bring bodies herself if she needs to, though.
- Our mage flies in the sky and tries to talk sense into her. She does not fight the mage. Why? Because the jungle will inherit the Earth, but never the air. She isn't angry at people. She just believes it is inevitable and believes it is the right thing to do, to kill all the people.
- She refers to all non-plants as "creatures of the flesh".
- When asked about when she became this way, she explained that how things happen is a concern of creatures of the flesh. The plants do not care where they came from or where they'll someday be.
- But what about the people you kill? Do they not matter? She tells the group that creatures of the flesh think that they are somehow special because they possess souls. To the plants, individual life does not matter. The jungle as a whole is the only important thing. She demonstrated this one by picking up a vegepygmy, presenting it for a bit, and then crushing it. She is not loving. She does not believe in liberty or freedom. But she also does not leave the jungle often, which means if the PCs enter too early they can still escape without being also dead.
In combat, she uses her earth glide ability to move around the battlefield, battering her foes with her elemental fist while the parasite on her back casts spells like "entangle" and "Wilderness Soldiers". It's going to be a ton of fun when my group finally does fight. They ran away this time partly because ahhhh but also partly because we did the session they met her in a flashback of sorts (basically one of our members couldn't make it to the day's session, and a month or so ago her character had the plague and was incapacitated for a few days, so we opted to run a session out of order, during those few days).
I'm going to spoiler the stat blocks I made. I'm not sure if they're any good to be totally honest but my group isn't the best at optimizing so it should be fine. Also the stat blocks are formatted really badly sorry about that :[
Elemental, Earth, Huge Fighter (Unarmed Fighter) 2
LN Huge outsider (earth, elemental, extraplanar)
Init -2; Senses darkvision 60 ft., tremorsense 60 ft.; Perception +17
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 6, flat-footed 19 (-2 Dex, -2 size, +13 natural)
hp 140 (12d10+74)
Fort +16, Ref +1, Will +9; +1 vs. exhausted, fatigued, staggered, or temporary penalties to ability scores
Defensive Abilities harsh training; DR 5/—; Immune bleeds, critical hits, flanking, paralysis, poison, precision damage, sleep, stunning; Resist acid 12
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft., burrow 20 ft., earth glide
Melee 2 slams +21 (2d8+10) and
unarmed strike +20/+15/+10 (1d6+10)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks earth mastery
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Statistics
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Str 30, Dex 6, Con 23, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 11
Base Atk +12; CMB +24 (+26 bull rush); CMD 32 (34 vs. bull rush, 32 vs. overrun)
Feats Elemental Fist, Feral Combat Training, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Unarmed Strike, Punishing Kick, Shaitan Skin, Shaitan Style, Weapon Focus (slam)
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+2 jump), Climb +23, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +3, Knowledge (planes) +3, Perception +17, Stealth +3, Survival +15
Languages Terran
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Special Abilities
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Burrowing (20 feet) You have a Burrow speed.
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Earth Glide Burrow through any earth or stone (except metal) as a fish through water.
Earth Mastery +1 to hit, dam, bull rush, and overrun if both self and foe are on ground, -4 otherwise.
Elemental Fist (1d6) (5/day) You can add 1d6 energy damage to an attack.
Energy Resistance, Acid (12) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Feral Combat Training (Slam) Use Improved Unarmed Strike feats with natural weapons
Harsh Training +1 (Ex) +1 Will save vs. effects that cause exhausted, fatigued, or staggered conditions or temporary penalties to ability scores
Immunity to Bleeds You are immune to bleeds.
Immunity to Critical Hits You are immune to Critical Hits
Immunity to Flanking You are immune to flanking.
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Precision Damage You are immune to Precision Damage
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Improved Bull Rush You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when bull rushing.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Punishing Kick (Push 5') (3/day) (DC 18) You can push or knock down an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Shaitan Skin Gain +1 use of Elemental Fist per day, and acid resistance
Shaitan Style Gain +1 use of Elemental Fist per day, and deal acid damage
Tremorsense (60 feet) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
XP 6,400
Violet Fungus Druid 7
N Medium plant
Init -2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +3
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Defense
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AC 14, touch 8, flat-footed 14 (-2 Dex, +6 natural)
hp 100 (11d8+51)
Fort +13, Ref +1 (+2 bonus vs. traps), Will +9; +4 vs. fey and plant-targeted effects
Defensive Abilities trap sense +2; Immune plant traits
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Offense
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Speed 10 ft.
Melee 4 tentacles +10 (1d4+2)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +10):
4th—arboreal hammer [D], spike stones [reflavored as thorns] (DC 17)
3rd—burst of nettles (DC 16), fungal infestation (DC 16), lily pad stride, venomous bolt [D] (DC 16)
2nd—tar ball [D], tar ball (2), warp wood (DC 15), wilderness soldiers
1st—detect animals or plants, entangle (2, DC 14), glide [D], ray of sickening (DC 14), stone shield
0 (at will)—detect magic, know direction, resistance, stabilize
[D] Domain spell; Domain Jungle
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 6, Con 18, Int —, Wis 16, Cha 13
Base Atk +8; CMB +10; CMD 18
SQ brachiation, nature bonds (druid domain [jungle] domain), place magic, rot, spirit sense
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Special Abilities
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Brachiation (7 rounds/day) (Ex) Free, gain climb speed and a bonus to Acrobatics.
Druid Domain (Jungle) Granted Powers: The spirits of the jungle, both of natural guardians and lost civilizations, whisper in your heart.
Domain Spells: 1st - glide**, 2nd - tar ball*, 3rd - venomous bolt**, 4th - arboreal hammer
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Polymorph You are immune to Polymorph effects.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Place Magic (6/day) (Su) Free, +1 to caster level for 1 round.
Rot (DC 16) (Ex) A creature struck by a violet fungus's tentacle must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or the flesh around the point of contact swiftly begins to rot away, exposing raw bone with shocking swiftness. This hideous affliction causes 1d4 points of Streng
Spirit Sense (Sp) As det. undead, also fey, outsider, astral/ethereal/incorporeal simultaneously.
Trap Sense +2 (Ex) +2 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
PS Another fun thing about City of Seven Spears is that there is bound to be a lot of resting time. There's no reason you have to do everything in chronological order and it can be a bit freeing to do things other ways.
Some changes I made to Egzimora
Actually, not really a new take. I made a whole new character, but I kept the name. It's the happiest I've ever been with something I made myself, so I'd like to share it all with you guys.
I like the changes you made to Egzimora. You mention the earth elemental crushes a random Vegepygmy. I was wondering if you changed the Vegepygmy tribe in any way? How are they interacting or dealing with this alternate Egzimora?
I keep forgetting to respond to you on this and I am sorry, keep forgetting to push "send".
So, actually this whole idea of killing the vegepygmy stems from this line: Kliboolya watches the battle dispassionately until the PCs attack it, the PCs damage any of the russet mold, or anyone sets foot on the uppermost tier of the ziggurat."
Kliboolya watches the battle dispassionately until the PCs attack it, the PCs damage any of the russet mold, or anyone sets foot on the uppermost tier of the ziggurat.
The idea of a leader who watches without interest as the party slaughters his men (and it is for sure a slaughter, the PCs are so much stronger than the poor little pygmies) raises some questions. One question is why Kliboolya has such a wacky name when vegepygmy can't actually speak. More importantly though, it asks what the vegepygmies have in terms of compassion for each other.
After thinking about it for a while I've decided "nothing." In my campaign, the vegepygmy don't care about each other or really even about themselves. They protect the russet mold but have no concern for other life beyond their own existence.
When my group first encountered Egzimora (they were hiding from the vegepygmy), she came in holding a dead, mangled troglodyte. She regularly would look at them and, though she never spoke, it was sort of assumed she was communicating with them through magic. Anyway, the vegepygmy stand at attention, completely still, until Egzimora drops the body with a thump onto the ground. The vegepygmy go wild, clawing at the body and infecting it with russet mold, which will result in a new batch of vegepygmies.
Egzimora seems to be in control of the vegepygmy, whether due to mind control or some bizarre understanding is up for debate (I don't have an answer yet, it depends on what the PCs do and what I feel like at the time.) They follow her nonverbal commands but otherwise stand still at attention.
Egzimora at one point kills two vegepygmy in from of one of the PCs. She does this to demonstrate that the vegepygmy do not care about individual life, including their own. They stand at attention and do not seem to react when their ally is crunched and killed.
The vegepygmy leader will be killed long before Egzimora is encountered again. I've changed his stats a little too but it's not of too much importance.
Reign of Winter has some interesting plant creatures, I might use a couple of them for random encounters. Things like jaguars and boggards no longer feel quite right here. I might also insert Pezzock. I do a mean crow-person impression, let me tell you.
Egzmimora will be accompanied by moonflowers, who are fascinating creatures who can probably put up quite a fight in tandem with Egzimora and the magic of the jungle.
Does anyone have hex maps of Saventh-yhi and Illmurea??
I have a question about the number of creatures in the various districts. is this the total number of creatures? Or the number of able-bodied creatures that can put up a fight. If it's the first, how much of the tribe should be able to put up a fight?
This might be important in a session or two, as I think that the players will try to rally an army against the Red Mantis -> Troglodyte coalition and I'm whipping out the mass combat rules from Ultimate Combat.
Would it be gauche to link my own post earlier in this thread?
That might help, numbers-wise, for you. (Sorry if this reply is too late for your purposes.)
EDIT: I linked it anyway. I figure that there are usually about 50% more noncombatants at any given time, and another 50% that have the young simple template.
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Thank you. I know of your posts, these are the numbers I am basing my own campaign on, actually. I was just wondering if the numbers were for combatants only, or the total amount of creatures. Now I know :)
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Wow! I'm glad to help, and flattered you liked it!
I always want to make things that help people, but I'm never really sure (lacking feedback) whether or not people actually like or use them. Hence, it's always nice to hear!
If you have more questions, you can ask!
The number of non-combatants v. young simple template (who are also kind of non-combatants, but could be in a pinch) kind of increase the total number of living creatures by about 75%-100%, depending on your interpretation (it has quickly become slightly irrelevant in our game, so I didn't bother with being too precise about whether to young simple is 50% of the the non-combatants or 50% of the main population; and by this point, I don't recall which of the two I originally meant when I wrote the notes down in the first place, alas).
The reason it's only half is that the city is dangerous. Too many children -> too many mouths to feed, and they wouldn't really have the chance to survive anyway, given all the diseases, accidents, and other random and terrible deaths that occur all over the place.
Thinking about the above, that's one of the reasons I'm (sometimes) considering the young simple as half the number of non-combatants: early death from unexpected venues. (On the other hand, the young simple template lasts longer than the non-combatant status, hence a lower technical population of any given age could easily result in equal numbers in the relative age ranges. So... I dunno.)
The numbers also vary by what we're talking about.
There are no "non-combatants" (or even "young simple template") undead, for example: if I ever use them, I treat the 'young' medium races as a small core race, and the 'young' small races as a small race reduced by 1 size category; I tend to, ah, delicately side-step, let's say, that particular inevitability by just hand-waiving them all as medium zombies, for the comfort of any players I might have, and avoiding squick factors or darker feelings.
Similarly, the Aberrations, Constructs, and non-Gorilla King-factions have nothing similar, nor do the vegepygmies, nisps, or unique creatures (as those creatures are, well, unique).
Further, despite what my notes might imply, the non-combatants are not entirely children incapable of doing anything (though most certainly are); these also include the (very few) helpless elderly, too-sick-to-move, or otherwise broken folk who can't do anything (and who aren't, for some reason, immediately killed or devoured). And the young simple template doesn't only apply itself to the young (though, again, that's the majority); certain deformities, or sicknesses can also decrease a creature in that way, and one notable member of the Rainbow Serpent tribe (who the PCs only gained a passing knowledge of in my game, so I don't recall who they were) was subject to a permanent magical effect to result in said template (as a result of Egzimora's experimentation... which he survived and ran away from, though with no working memory).
Plus, the 50% is really just an "off-the-cuff" kind of guesstimate: it can (in my own mind) vary from anywhere near 30-35% to 65-or-70%.
All of that makes it a bit difficult to get solid numbers - so many exceptions! - hence the reason I didn't really put them in, in the first place.
Basically, the non-combatants are anyone that you can't really give stats too. I consider them to have 1 or 0 hp (depending), and saves of -5 (as if they had 0 in the relevant ability scores and no class bonus), physical scores otherwise of 1, and mental scores otherwise of 3-7 (as appropriate), no skill ranks or feats, and anywhere from 1/2 to 1/10 of a hit dice (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/8, or 1/10) for the exceedingly rare cases I actually need something for them. I ad hoc the variables based entirely on my whim.
You... should probably never need that, though. (I doubt your villains would ever be so awful as mine, so you probably should ever have to deal with, say, a living shield of invisible, silenced infants for HD-related spell effects. Oh, man, did my players hate her. )
Regardless, I hope that helps! :D
Great works guys. Sad to see this thread sort of die off, but its a good start.
`Hunch