When I saw the dhampir in the Bestiary 2, I groaned out loud. Why would we have creatures descended from vampires, and not from wights or ghouls? It struck me as Paizo's attempt at riding the fad.
Actually, all those Planetouched-style races bugged me. Dhampirs, undines...they're all described as highly attractive. I get the fanservice angle, but it's reminding me too much of Twilight, or Peter Jackson elves.
Now, we've got eight races who are generally average in appearance, and eight who are generally good-looking (counting half-orcs as the former and half-elves as the latter).
So what kind of standards are we going by when over half the player races on Golarion are defined in large part by their beauty?
Its always interesting to see different perspectives. I never really thought that the Dhampir had much to do with Twilight, and a lot more to do with characters like Blade . . . a half-vampire that goes around killing off full blown vampires.
Not peter jackson elves...the elves are described as such in the books. So really it's tolkien elves...which is really what D&D elves are derived from. But then again, I think the elves looks ugly in the 3.x/PF artwork.
True, but Tolkien didn't make Legolas the main character. And he didn't sabotage Gimli to make Legolas look cooler. :P
/\ Well, I wouldn't know. Besides Buffy, the only vampire stuff I've read is Twilight.
...
Not that I read Twilight.
Or Vampire Hunter D
Why would we have creatures descended from vampires, and not from wights or ghouls?Because dhampirs in real world mythology are descended from vampires, not wights or ghouls.
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>_><_<
You probably just made that page...
:P
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One could argue that players, in general, don't want to play unattractive characters. There are a number that do, don't get me wrong, but for the most part people want to play an attractive character. As such, I can definitely understand Paizo making the "playable races" in the Bestiary 2 attractive.
Also, yeah, Dhampir existed before Twilight, so :P
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Why would we have creatures descended from vampires, and not from wights or ghouls?Because dhampirs in real world mythology are descended from vampires, not wights or ghouls.
Edit:** spoiler omitted **
In regards to your spoiler, can you site exactly where in which book, she states that the vampire glows in the dark? Neither me, nor my wife remember reading such a thing. And we've read all the Sookie Stackhouse books.
One could argue that players, in general, don't want to play unattractive characters. There are a number that do, don't get me wrong, but for the most part people want to play an attractive character. As such, I can definitely understand Paizo making the "playable races" in the Bestiary 2 attractive.
Also, yeah, Dhampir existed before Twilight, so :P
I think my Twilight reference was a bit unclear. My complaint isn't that dhampirs are Twilightish. My complaint is that making them--and every other 'ancestor race'--attractive is Twilightish, at least for me.
My other problem is the existence of dhampirs in Pathfinder. They're the odd one out. I get all the elemental races, and the celestial/fiendish races.
But the dhampir's existence in mythology doesn't mean Paizo is obliged to include it--and as a PC race, too. By such logic, surely there should be a fey race. Not only would that race make a bit more sense in Golarion canon, but it'd have an excuse to be good-looking. Unlike nearly EVERY SINGLE PC RACE in the Bestiary 2.
That's probably my big grievance. What about being descended from a vampire makes you pretty? Or from aquatic creatures? Pretty vampires are not a Pathfinder aspect. It's an aspect of the trend.
Of the elemental kin, only Ifrit have a charisma bonus, and none of the actual text of the races mention them being more attractive than usual.
The flavor text of the vampire itself actually states that many vampires actually become more attractive when they return to unlife as vampires, so it is actually a Pathfinder vampire trait to be an attractive vampire, and to pass that on to their children. And again, while I know it doesn't just mean physical attractiveness, Vampires do gain a +4 bonus to charisma.
Of the elemental kin, only Ifrit have a charisma bonus, and none of the actual text of the races mention them being more attractive than usual.
The flavor text of the vampire itself actually states that many vampires actually become more attractive when they return to unlife as vampires, so it is actually a Pathfinder vampire trait to be an attractive vampire, and to pass that on to their children. And again, while I know it doesn't just mean physical attractiveness, Vampires do gain a +4 bonus to charisma.
Hurr
Darr?Me no agree.
>_>
<_<
*Throws distracting quote at Knight and runs*
Kobold Cleaver is correct.
Technically it says Dhampirs are fast and seductive, but closer to death than most mortals. Not that they are attractive. :)
P.S. Your just upset that Asch is more popular than Vakkler :p
Look, guys! Lookit the stick! Ooh, nice stick! Gogetit! *Throws*
Nonsense, Asch. Now go away, your sparkles are hurting my eyes.
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Uh...check p. 271 of the Bestiary. The default vampire illustration. She looks pretty attractive to me.
Besides, ever since Dracula, almost all vampires are attractive, it's part of the whole "metaphor for sex" thing they've got going. I mean, they've always been a sexual metaphor (originally for rape, but that line's been blurred in regards to vampires for a very long time), and their being attractive thus makes perfect sense. Heck, I can't think of any remotely recent fiction where most vampires aren't at least superficially attractive. And that includes things like the Dresden Files where they're some of the most horrible and disgusting villains in the setting.
There are plenty of ugly undead, but vampires are not among them and haven't been for a while, so their progeny being good looking makes a great deal of sense.
And while I admit to lacking the Bestiary 2, I just looked at the four elemental race descriptions on d20pfsrd.com and none of them are described as particularly attractive. They aren't unattractive either (well, maybe the Oread...i.e. the one with a Charisma penalty), but none are gushed over as being attractive.
EDIT: Wow, that got ninja'd a whole lot.
The only evidence that vampires are good-looking is that the example happens to be such. And we all know how Paizo is about fanservice. :P
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EDIT: Wow, that got ninja'd a whole lot.
RAGE!
Ninjas are overpowered/underpowered/replacing rogues too much/not replacing monks enough/not nearly as overpowered as gunslingers/not yet official, and I'd never take a class that might be badly written/not western enough/inferior to pirates/superior to pirates/not cake, which is a lie/wielding katanas, which should be equivalent to scimitars/wielding katanas, which should be better or worse than scimitars/looking kinda silly in their black toilet paper getup.Wait, what were we talking about?
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The only evidence that vampires are good-looking is that the example happens to be such. And we all know how Paizo is about fanservice. :P
"This alluring, raven-haired beauty casually wipes a trickle of blood from a pale cheek, then smiles to reveal needle-sharp fangs."
"Vampires are undead humanoid creatures that feed on the blood of the living. They look much as they did in life, often becoming more attractive, though some have a hardened, feral look instead."
The onl two descriptions we have of vampire appearance. Both mention attractiveness.
The only evidence that vampires are good-looking is that the example happens to be such. And we all know how Paizo is about fanservice. :P"This alluring, raven-haired beauty casually wipes a trickle of blood from a pale cheek, then smiles to reveal needle-sharp fangs."
"Vampires are undead humanoid creatures that feed on the blood of the living. They look much as they did in life, often becoming more attractive, though some have a hardened, feral look instead."
The onl two descriptions we have of vampire appearance. Both mention attractiveness.
The first is invalid. I just said that the example is an example, and not something that isn't an example (which it is).
The second is valid, but I still disagree with you, 'cause your avatar looks like Aberzombie, and he hurts my feelings saying dwarves are better miners.
P.S. Your just upset that Asch is more popular than Vakkler :p
It doesn't help that he has a pigmy slurk as a pet either...
P.S. Your just upset that Asch is more popular than Vakkler :pIt doesn't help that he has a pigmy slurk as a pet either...
This is true....
P.S. Your just upset that Asch is more popular than Vakkler :pIt doesn't help that he has a pygmy slurk as a pet either...
Asch may be more popular than Vakkler, but I think you'll find that Slarrow is the coolest slurk in the whole school.
And in a pitched battle, he easily crushed Silver.
Dampir's sparkle only if they're moody with phetophelic tendencies. (after all she's only 15ish and he's how many hundreds of years old?)
Dampir's sparkle only if they're moody with phetophelic tendencies. (after all she's only 15ish and he's how many hundreds of years old?)
Er, so dhampirs grow best in strong light? Wait, no, that's photophilic. :P
Yar!
RAGE!
Ninjas are overpowered/underpowered/replacing rogues too much/not replacing monks enough/not nearly as overpowered as gunslingers/not yet official, and I'd never take a class that might be badly written/not western enough/inferior to pirates/superior to pirates/not cake, which is a lie/wielding katanas, which should be equivalent to scimitars/wielding katanas, which should be better or worse than scimitars/looking kinda silly in their black toilet paper getup.Wait, what were we talking about?
This is now, officially, my favorite post on the forums.
^_^
...on topic: no. NO! and "HELLZ-NO!"
That is all.
~P
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Were we ever on topic?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Were we ever on topic?
I cleverly distracted people from the topic with my quick quoting.
P.S. Your just upset that Asch is more popular than Vakkler :pIt doesn't help that he has a pygmy slurk as a pet either...Asch may be more popular than Vakkler, but I think you'll find that Slarrow is the coolest slurk in the whole school.
And in a pitched battle, he easily crushed Silver.
I was there, I saw what happened.
Slarrow got whipped(pun intended) by a towel and Silver had to help him out of the entanglement said towel caused.
And Slarrow is the only slurk in the school at the moment, so the first part of your argument it mute(plus, Mr. Sinh would wipe the floor with you if you brought more in).
My argument is mute? I'm not mute, you're DEAF!
*Ba-dum-bum-ksh*
And what heist were you watching? Fight, that is. Did you notice Silver FLEE after 'freeing' the cunning Slarrow? Clearly, Slarrow was just luring the little lizard closer so he could expose it to his deadly slime attack!
"Flee? I don't flee that was a tactical flanking maneuver I'd have you know!"
Really? Then why'd you fly away as fast as possible, screaming:
"Aaah! No slime bad!"
"To trick the into thinking I was running away then I was going to attack, but then that lightning guy thing showed up and then the light fell and I never got to attack to much stuff happened. Understand?"
Can't believe I'm halping a dragon, but...
Silver shakes his reptilian head sadly. "Its depressing really." He says as he flys over and tries to untangle the slurk.It's not easy, but the tiny dragon manages to free Slarrow. Gratefully, the slurk tries to rub its slimy body against Silver.
In the love-fest that follows the Slurk's liberation, the persistent Lil' Sinh grabs its towel and high-tails it back to the Janitor who stands watching the whole scene with a slurk.. er... smirk.
Emphasis mine.
Put it this way..
Dracula and Nosferatu are both famous vampires of fiction.
Which one of them would YOU rather be descended from?
Well, let's take a look at my history.
UNATTRACTIVE:Garble the goblin, Darst the goblin, Vakkler the kobold, Slarrow the slurk, Estav the barbarian, a lot of guys from dead PbPs, Gore the barbarian, Vistel the bloatmage and Kobold Clea--hey, who put that on the list?!
ATTRACTIVE OR AVERAGE:
Erine the witch, Eldon the rogue, Serad the crazy guy.
And that's not even counting the characters from my stories.
Whoever Nosferatu is, if he isn't anything like Cullen I'm all for him!
And yes, I know that me not knowing who the fellow is probably means Intelligence is my dump stat.
Nosferatu is the name of the Movie, the character is called Count Orlok
Put it this way..
Dracula and Nosferatu are both famous vampires of fiction.
Which one of them would YOU rather be descended from?
Strahd Von Zarovich.
Eh..
Twilight is just the last in a long line of "riding the vampire hype". Since Dracula, (when vampires split and became more defined as something seperate from werewolves and other 'changing man eaters'), they've pretty much been attractive/sexual/seducing.
Just because a hyped up Twilight used a common myth, doesn't mean we should now drop it for fear of potentially "riding the hype".
And I like the Blade comparison much better.
In fact, in 3e when they introduced Dhampirs, I recall the comparisons to Blade (and people making Blade-like characters).
This was long before Twilight was even written, let alone on screen and causing the 15 to 45 female population go stupid nuts.
...Besides Buffy, the only vampire stuff I've read is Twilight...
You poor delusional little kobold, no wonder you act like this; it's clear that Twilight has given you brain damage. I'm afraid that there is no cure... you will die.
Ha! In your face, Foreman. You said he had lupus. {wanders off searching for Thirteen}
vampire stuff, thna stroker's work....
Uhm, don't you mean Stoker?
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I didn't get the least Twilight vibe from this one, except maybe to think "Yep, it's a PC vampire. Such is the style of the times." Mostly I was thinking Cool Shades, Kung-fu and Katanas.
I happen to like Blade 2, stylistically; I'm a Del Toro fan.
Half vampires have been around for a while, I see no problem with Paizo making a PC race for one in a monster manual.
As to the planetouched, some people like gensai. I do like that they give more of a genie vibe than anything else, since genies are the most interesting elementals, and after Legacy of Fire, they've probably had a slight popularity renaissance.
Complaining that a race is too attractive is a little nit-picky, too. None of them are singled out as being super-attractive, unless you're into exotic traits like horns and stone skin. It's up to individual players to decide if their character is pretty or ugly, and you can't complain that the art is too pretty. It's art. Even the half-orcs have a sort of rugged charm. They're not exactly dapper dan, sure, but compare poor Krusk, with his stern zombie face.
It's a way to get new races with interesting themes while not making the setting a complete freakshow, since they're all rare planetouched that integrate into human society. would you rather have cat people?
Funny how everyone keeps going back to Dracula for the 'sexy' vampire. Stoker's Vampire was never sexy. He was a creepy old man who sometimes got younger... but he was never written as anything but a monster.
I JUST read an article... somewhere commenting on how Stoker would never even recognize most portrayals of Dracula... Irony.
Bela Legosi, Christopher Lee... Creepy, but hardly Sexy. I think it was Frank Langella in 1979 who really kicked off the 'bare chested heart-throb' dracula.
And that show was NOTHING like the book...
As for the class... I haven't read this one, so I don't know what their abilities are, but yes... Dhamphir's have been around a LONG time before Twilight ever were.
If your only experience with Vampires is Buffy and Twilight... then lets be honest... you have NO experience with vampires at all!! I loved the buffy series... but the Vamps were the weakest part of that series. I highly recommend going out and seeing some REAL Vampire movies...
Start with Lost boys and Fright Night and work outwards from there... Ending with Dark Shadows and Vampire Diaries...
Orcs, Kobolds, Tieflings, Duergar, many Humans, some Half-Orcs, some Dwarves, and most Gnomes are ugly. If you don't want to play Twilight, just RP that your character is ugly.
Funny how everyone keeps going back to Dracula for the 'sexy' vampire. Stoker's Vampire was never sexy. He was a creepy old man who sometimes got younger... but he was never written as anything but a monster.
Hear, hear. The Count could also walk around in broad daylight without bursting into flames, and, after he fed, he swelled up like a bloated tick.