Joined a higher level campaign a while back, think it was around level 9 (my higherst character to date was level 7 back in the days of 2.0). Was given a concept for character by DM, but even with good stats and freedom to build I was unable to make it anything other than mediocre. Character also started with nothing more than basic starting gear. Eventually died in an ambush a few sessions later.
Made another character. DM planned a place for the introduction, party went a different route, DM assigned a backup character. Played temp character (Awakened flesh golem) with promise to be able to play whatever I wanted after surviving (think party was level 10 or 11 now). After 2 sessions figured out all the rules and we realized I had a lot less ways of healing than we had assumed and should already be very very dead. DM let 'current' hp stand, but we soon entered the BBEG fight (involving many spells and area damage) with me at 26 hp, no way of healing, (level 11/12 ish) and the announcement that the next person to fall would take over DMing... I missed the session but the outcome didn't need high level divination spells to predict.
DM'd a bit, first 'filler', then back to the module we were on, but realized the module involved too much magic and I was way out of my depth (first time DM'ing, long hiatus playing since before 3.0 came out, never played casters at all, high level campaign). DM had had a good break though and was happy enough to take over again.
Made a new character... old character wouldn't have been very effective in party, new planned magus character veto'd (until final version gets published), and my rolled stats were considered too high, so I had to point buy, scramble for a new idea, and started with a +1 weapon, +1 armor and nothing else (not even mundane gear). This time got character introduced to party in short order, but has yet to mesh well with it. Starting base level 12, party is almost at 13.
Session 1 - got a single melee hit in. Ended rest of fight grappled and helpless (reread grappling rules after session, learned of all the wonderful options I could have had), got mauled and hit by 'friendly' fire (which did almost half the damage I took), went from 111 to 14 hp. Biggest contribution was by staying back and preventing an evil double from spawning and attacking the party.
Session 2 - healed up to 55 hp, failed a spell save in first round of combat and was (killed) reduced to -9 hp. Got healed slightly, stumbled away and missed the fight entirely (and some much needed gear which nobody else needed that just ended up in the bottom of a backpack). Also missed out half the xp for encounter due to cowering in the back with low health. Got 2 hits in on the next combat but enemies managed to flee.
Session 3 - got 2 hits (and killing blows) in for combat and then failed a charm save that a natural 20 wouldn't even have made, then got a permanent negative level as the eventual consequence (DM being nice vs having to make a new character, otherwise he was following the module we're on). Watched rest of party level to 13. Alternative to my 'sacrifice' (party was aware of charm) was a combat that very likely would have wiped the party.
Hoping my luck turns around soon...
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Some DM styles work better with different players.
Either the DM is singling you out because you are new the the group (in which case you should definitely find a new DM) or his style just doesn't match yours. (in which case you might consider talking to him or finding a new group.
ALSO! what is ridiculous is a character at lvl 12 with merely +1 gear. He must be slapped. this is by no means fair!
Well the armor at least was mithril (which helps a bit, though still makes it cheaper than a +2 armor), and the weapon a ghost touch (not to be sneezed at, but for 99% of what I see in encounters, no different than a normal +1 weapon).
Mmmh I don't think you having a big lack of luck is all we've got here...
First : You really should read the rules... That will give you a lot of options you wouldn't have think of...
Second : With only mundane gear or petty magic armor and weapon at this level you are doomed if the others in the party are well equiped... Because you can play low magic but everyone has to got low level equipement, and the encounter should be adapted in the same way, if the others has regular magic equipment for this level then giving you only +1 weapon is not fair...
Third : I understand that since the others character don't know you they are reluctant to give you equipement but well they have to understand they have to (and they can borrow you the equipment if they don't want to give you gifts :p , and I have said character, the player might know you the characters in game don't... :p )
Fourth : Err... Ask your GM to read th e rules... Half XP because you were behind wounded ? Really ? That's not the rules... You survive the encounter you got the encounter XP... All the xp... You find a way to get by monsters without fighting them you got the monsters xp... That's the rule... And I can't remember any monster at this level that can give permanent negative level... Which monster was it ?
Fifth : If you don't have access to level equivalent magic object play a caster... With a caster, at that level, you should survive and contribute fairly easily... :)
Bad GM is bad.
But from what I see, bad group is bad as well. You had some bad luck and got half XP and NO GEAR? Seriously, this is not a roleplaying game, this is a competitive board-game. The one with the most loot wins.
Mmmh I don't think you having a big lack of luck is all we've got here...
First : You really should read the rules... That will give you a lot of options you wouldn't have think of...
I do a fair bit, but middle of the session isn't the right time, and I haven't even played 3.0+, while the group has played a fair bit of 3.5 and some rules nobody knows fully yet
Second : With only mundane gear or petty magic armor and weapon at this level you are doomed if the others in the party are well equiped... Because you can play low magic but everyone has to got low level equipement, and the encounter should be adapted in the same way, if the others has regular magic equipment for this level then giving you only +1 weapon is not fair...
Campaign is 'low' magic, but in part DM was figuring I'd have access to a lot of magical stuff from the area we were in
Third : I understand that since the others character don't know you they are reluctant to give you equipement but well they have to understand they have to (and they can borrow you the equipment if they don't want to give you gifts :p , and I have said character, the player might know you the characters in game don't... :p )
It's called roleplaying, my character wastn't present for looting so doesn't even know what was looted, and the one time I went through some of their packs (in character) I was ravenous and ignored things other than food ending up chewing on dirty clothes, which also did not endear my character to the party.
Fourth : Err... Ask your GM to read th e rules... Half XP because you were behind wounded ? Really ? That's not the rules... You survive the encounter you got the encounter XP... All the xp... You find a way to get by monsters without fighting them you got the monsters xp... That's the rule... And I can't remember any monster at this level that can give permanent negative level... Which monster was it ?
Part of a pathfinder module and the actual mechanics involved making a lot of saves and gaining enough negative levels meant to kill a character so the DM picked this as a favorable way to keep a newly introduced character in the game.
and the half xp.. I died the first round, the -9 hp was also to keep a newly introduced character from being killed in the 2nd enounter.
Fifth : If you don't have access to level equivalent magic object play a caster... With a caster, at that level, you should survive and contribute fairly easily... :)
My primary choice was a magus AA, but with magus almost done playtesting the DM wanted to avoid having to rebuild a char mid campaign (and our current summoner underwent the same thing earlier in that campaign, with issues cropping up even after).
And as stated, I haven't played above 7 before this and I haven't played casters. The last thing I want is to start a pure caster from scratch at high levels with no clue what I'm doing.
Since there is no Magus go for the Divine equivalent, the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor is great in combat and can make up for short falls in equipment with Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon. That will get you by with lacking the equipment till you can get the the equipment. Is the same casting progression as the Magus but a spontaneous caster making it even easier in game but more difficult when deciding which spells you know. Just don't worry about a high Wisdom as you primarily have Buff, healing, and utility spells in your list. There are few save based spells but if you don't take them you don't need a high casting stat and can put more into Strength and Con.
WHAT!?
The DM is giving you less XP because you tactically retreated in combat and let the more healthy players have their turn? Sounds like you need to find a new DM.
Does the Bard/rogue get less XP when they fast talk their way out of a situation than the fighter does just killing everything? The answer should be no.
Oh does the rogue only get XP when he disables a trap? Same answer NO! The fighter does more fighting, the wizard more spell casting, the rogue more sneaky stuff, but XP is not solely awarded by combat prowess alone.
Nope he takes half XP because he was technically dead but the DM saved him at the cost of half the encounter XP... ;)
And the others keep the loot because they don't want to give valuable object to an early met raving lunatic who's chewing on dirty clothes... :p
Your GM's a moron. Find another game.
And the others keep the loot because they don't want to give valuable object to an early met raving lunatic who's chewing on dirty clothes... :p
Which may or may not make sense from a roleplaying perspective, but from a "let's all work together to do (insert quest here)" point of view they might as well just leave him behind to die, if they won't even share food willingly, let alone any loot.
I'd agree that you either need to address your concerns with your DM, or find a new group.
Definitely unlucky... for having found such a bad GM.
Was given a concept for character by DM, but even with good stats and freedom to build I was unable to make it anything other than mediocre.
First sign of bad GM. Good GMs don't give character concepts to players. They might set some basic data (like "Must be from city X or nation Y") or ask that you fill a certain role the party is short on ("Could you play a healer? They have a bard but it's not enough."), but in the end, the player decides on what character he plays.
Character also started with nothing more than basic starting gear.
Another sign of bad GM. Unless the guy knows how to adjust the game for characters without equipment, this will all but cripple you. Pathfinder has character wealth guidelines for a reason: The CRs assume that a level 9 character has over 40k gil worth of magic bling which will improve his AC, saves, HP, attack rolls, save DCs, damage, spells/day, number of uses of many special abilities.....
Made another character. DM planned a place for the introduction, party went a different route, DM assigned a backup character.
Next sign of bad GM. A good GM is flexible, and the most important rule is always "Everybody has fun!" That means he thinks of something else if the players go a different route, or use a introduction spot they in all likelihood will be at.
Played temp character (Awakened flesh golem) with promise to be able to play whatever I wanted after surviving (think party was level 10 or 11 now).
Wait, you have to survive to be allowed to play what you want? Yet another sign of crappy GM.
After 2 sessions figured out all the rules and we realized I had a lot less ways of healing than we had assumed and should already be very very dead. DM let 'current' hp stand
How "generous" of him. And by "generous", I mean "low".
the announcement that the next person to fall would take over DMing...
Wait, what? People are forced to GM?
DM'd a bit, first 'filler', then back to the module we were on, but realized the module involved too much magic and I was way out of my depth
You're a far better person than I am, by the way. I would have let that guy suffer. He'd be "found" by the party naked, being violated by a clan of inbred ogres. And after that, I would have become nasty... ;-)
my rolled stats were considered too high, so I had to point buy
Okay, this is the definite sign that this GM is not just really, really bad as a GM, but also a real tosser.
That's what happens if you let people roll for stats: Some of them will get awesome stats. If you don't want it, don't use a rolling method in the first place. But if you let them have the chance to have crappy stats but then, should they get good ones instead, cripple those stats, you are the prime target of a Code Red.
Watch Full Metal Jacket if you don't know what that is. The scene with the soap and towels. Though I recommend morning starts instead of soap-in-towels }>.
, scramble for a new idea, and started with a +1 weapon, +1 armor and nothing else (not even mundane gear).
I don't even have to comment at this point.
got mauled and hit by 'friendly' fire (which did almost half the damage I took)
So the guy has sadistic rules about friendly fire, or are the players disciples of his Church of Tossery?
Got healed slightly, stumbled away and missed the fight entirely (and some much needed gear which nobody else needed that just ended up in the bottom of a backpack). Also missed out half the xp for encounter due to cowering in the back with low health.
Ah, that explains it: They're all a bunch of tossers. Hoarding useless equipment even if someone else desperately needs it. And the XP docking part is just ridiculous.
Got 2 hits in on the next combat but enemies managed to flee.
Session 3 - got 2 hits (and killing blows) in for combat and then failed a charm save that a natural 20 wouldn't even have made, then got a permanent negative level as the eventual consequence (DM being nice vs having to make a new character, otherwise he was following the module we're on)
Wait, there was an impossible-to-make charm save (a natural 20 would have been enough, by the way, that's always a success), and the GM was "nice" by giving you a permanent negative level (since you're not at a big enough disadvantage already?) instead of being charmed (which isn't even close to being dominated)
. Watched rest of party level to 13. Alternative to my 'sacrifice' (party was aware of charm) was a combat that very likely would have wiped the party.
I would have gone for the wipe. No charming even necessary.
Hoping my luck turns around soon...
I doubt it. Not with that group. My advise: Tell them where to shove their game and find a better group. Even not playing at all would be preferable to this.
I do a fair bit, but middle of the session isn't the right time, and I haven't even played 3.0+, while the group has played a fair bit of 3.5 and some rules nobody knows fully yet
The GM should know the rules he's going to use. For example: If the GM plans to use an enemy that will grapple, the GM should know the grapple rules. He shouldn't withhold that information from you, either.
Campaign is 'low' magic, but in part DM was figuring I'd have access to a lot of magical stuff from the area we were in
Does the GM adjust for the "low" magic? Plus, I somehow doubt that the GM was figuring you'd have access to anything, the way he sounds.
It's called roleplaying, my character wastn't present for looting so doesn't even know what was looted
It's actually called "not being a giant tosser". Decent people would have told you about all that kit they have just lying around, stuff that could help you. Being a jerk and excusing jerky behaviour by "roleplaying" is what gives roleplaying a bad name.
, and the one time I went through some of their packs (in character) I was ravenous and ignored things other than food ending up chewing on dirty clothes, which also did not endear my character to the party.
What.
and the half xp.. I died the first round, the -9 hp was also to keep a newly introduced character from being killed in the 2nd enounter.
Less XP keep characters from being killed? You have to explain this to me, but be warned, I expect explanations to make sense.
KaeYoss explained it better, but I stick to my original comments. ;-)
This guy is embarrasingly clueless, and has no business running a game.
with me at 26 hp, no way of healing, (level 11/12 ish) and the announcement that the next person to fall would take over DMing... I missed the session but the outcome didn't need high level divination spells to predict.
I don't think I can articulate my emotions on this text without resorting to screaming and shoving my monitor out my window.
Definitely unlucky... for having found such a bad GM.
I agree with KayYoss' breakdown of your GM. If this guy's been GM'ing for a short while, maybe it's worthwhile to have an out of game discussion and try to politely point out these problems and suggest solutions. But if he's been running games for any length of time, then it's absolutely, positively time to cut your losses and find a new game. The chances of any signficant change to the GM's way of running a game are really slim, and from my experience, you'll just be wasting your time. Time that could be better spent looking for a new game, or starting a low level game as a GM.
I generally avoid criticizing other GMs and players when presented with stories like this, because I'm not there, don't know the context, and don't know if what I'm presented is accurate and/or balanced.
In this case, there do seem to be several problems with both the GM and the group, which others have pointed out and I won't dwell on. What it boils down to for me is that apparently they have not been very welcoming to a new player - it certainly appears from your retelling that apparently you haven't felt welcomed.
So my main piece of advice for you is to ask yourself a question: are you having fun? If so, it's probably worth putting in the time and effort to talk to the GM and other players ad explain honestly the problems you have with the way you have been incorporated into the campaign. If not, politely bail.
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I second all the above posters.
It sounds to me like you're being hazed.
The GM may be inexperienced, but I doubt it, given you say the group as a whole has been playing D&D3 or its derivatives for years.
Does he actually want to GM?
Not an odd question, if the group has a tradition of 'who dies next, becomes next GM'.
If he considers it a chore, he may be taking the frustration out on the new player, in the belief he has less pull with the others, and may not feel confident calling him on it.
But, GM inexperience or failings aside, the ones I think need calling out are the other players.
Sure, new person joins you in mid-quest, you aren't going to gift them your bonded heirloom holy avenger, but refusing to feed him? When PCs of that level can create food and water out of thin air?
Refusing to tell him about the party's collection of spare gear, gear that's so beneath them that they toss it in the bottom of a sack?
Did they also not feel comfortable 'wasting' any buff spells or protection on this new ally? At the same level in Shackled City, I would routinely end whole adventures with spell slots left uncast, before counting the plethora of bonus spells from wands, scrolls, potions, etc. If and when NPCs would accompany us, I'd freely aid them, without any price tag.
To let this new ally keep charging almost naked into the melee, keep getting pounded into the dirt, yet still refuse to watch his back, protect him from harm, then withold shares of the loot, claiming to have doubts about his loyalty, is not 'roleplaying', unless one is roleplaying a scumbag.
To let him stay grappled, without advising of 'all the wonderful options I could have had'? What kind of player does that?
Even if the GM is inexperienced or flustered by too much going on, if these guys have years of D&D3 under their belts, they should be helping their GM run a better game, for their own benefit, if nothing else.
Why is an inactive player unable to look up rules, and advise a new player of all their options?
Because they don't want to, that's why.
It's more fun to watch you crash and burn, than it is to coach you into being an effective player.
Roleplay has nothing to do with it. This is not about them 'needing to trust you more' before getting you out of a jam. This is stuff your character would already know. And already be doing. Just because you, the player, don't yet have the vocabulary to express your intended actions in game terms, should not mean the character lays on the floor like a wet rag doll.
'Friendly fire'.
Dear God.
Unless someone is hurling flasks and bombs about, and routinely failing to hit touch AC (in which case they have no business using that tactic), or there is some complex illusion/wall of force/gust of wind hazard that a crafty GM can spice up the encounter with (which I doubt is the case here), there is no friendly fire in D&D/PF unless the player intends it to happen.
These people are not 'accidentally catching you in a spell that escaped their control'.
They are lining you up in their cross-hairs, then shooting you in the back of the head. For giggles.
You should make it known that their behaviour is ruining the game for you, that you've been a good sport about it and taken the initiation, but now you expect to be treated like a full member of the group, and demand that the griefing stop.
And if it doesn't stop, you're prepared to walk.
They probably expected you to quit weeks ago, and are wondering how long they're going to be allowed to get away with it.
If I told my players that they had to run a temp character until I could work them in, they would crumple it up, throw it at me, and leave, telling me to call them when they could play their PC. And if I was playing, I would do the same. There is never an excuse for a DM taking longer than 30 minutes (5 is better) to work a new PC back into the game.
+1. Even in the midst of the World's Largest Dungeon, which was no one (supposedly) had managed to enter in thousands of years before the party, I still managed to start with 7 players, end with 6, and have only one character actually make it through the entire thing. This despite there being no provision in the module itself for slipping new players in. One room had a magical rune of sleep in it - they found the sorceress sleeping on it after having mangled a teleport spell. One room was under some magical effect that stopped time for anyone in it - turns out there was a friendly character in it who just happened to be related to a character who died last session (that one was a bit of a stretch, I admit).
I won't go so far as to say that 30 minutes is the maximum, but it should never be more than half a session, and the player should have some idea in advance when and how, so they know what to wait for.
That being said, I have asked my players to play a temp on occasion - but never as a "You can play your character after this temp is done".
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Not trying not pile on, but I got the distinct impression that you were going through a hazing ritual. Do you think this form of treatment (half xp, no share on loot) will stop in the near future?
Regardless of the hazing, I don't think it's a smart idea for there to be more than 2 levels of gaps between party members. It just makes me feel that a low level char will always be the baggage boy of the party. Talk to your DM to see if there is an opportunity to equalize things, esp because of your "sacrifice"?
XP should ALWAYS be split evenly. If you die, we even use the old rules - you get an extra 1000 for being dead. Even if the rogue sneaks in ahead and disarms ten traps and ambushes a guard by himself, we split the XP. Over the years, it always evens out.
This just struck me as funny....of course it evens out...you always spilt evenly. I know you probably meant that everybody does something solo and everybodt benefits from it so it even out that way. Just reading it though...
But to the OP I have to agree with everybody else...your 'luck' won't change till you either get a new group or you have a serious discussion with the current group. The bad luck might have just been finding this group...and it maybe a great group I don't mean to critize them...but some groups are just not very newbie friendly.
Also why were you starving so much that you were chewing on dirty clothes?
Your rolled stats were to high? With what kind of sadist do you play? I say ditch the gruop and find a normal one to play with...these guys are obviously not right in the head.
Some GMs cap when a single character appears outrageous compared to the others. As long as he's doing it to everybody there is no difference. There are as many styles of character creation as there are groups. I, myself, prefer not to GM a super-super-heroic game because it can too quickly get out of hand. And I also have had a player who wouldn't think twice about bringing a character to the table he had "rolled up the night before" that didn't have a single score under 16 before racial adjustments. We don't know the whole story here.
Some of this looks like GM nerfing (and a few mess ups) and some of it looks like hazing. A lot of the stuff you see here is normal GM behavior I have encountered (and exercised) in my own 31 years of playing. For example, it is common for a GM in an already established campaign to ask the new guy to run an NPC or similar until the current scenario resolves itself.
I agree with Loengrin that is sounds like the OP is not terribly familiar with all of the options at his disposal. But other than that, re-reading the OP twice now, there is a lot of information missing.
For instance, after the magus got "voted down," what class did he take? I don't see it. What is the makeup of the rest of the party? Who stuck the OP with the +1 stuff? Did the GM nerf that, or did the OP not know what to do with his starting gold? I has questions.
Some GMs cap when a single character appears outrageous compared to the others.
Them's the breaks. You want random, you get random. If you don't like that random attribute generation is random, use one of the non-random systems.
Some GMs cap when a single character appears outrageous compared to the others.Them's the breaks. You want random, you get random. If you don't like that random attribute generation is random, use one of the non-random systems.
Reminds me of one time in 3.5 when we rolled for stats, and I rolled 18, 17, 16, 14, 13, 10. That's a 48pb according to PF. The others had like 3 10s, two 12s and MAYBE a 17. What was funny was that they were all "OMG!11!2 YOUR PRESTIGE CLASS IS OVERPOWERED!!" and completely disregarding the insane stats that made it powerful at all (a cleric one that lost spellcasting for combat power, needing decent Wis, Cha, Str and Con to work at all), and that if we played with a point-buy system, it would be pretty crap.
As for the whole dead issue; I would say it is more than enough of a punishment to die, and lose out on a lot of play, then require several tons of gold to come back, which likely goes out of your share, unless you are a functioning socialist party that sets aside money for all who needs healing and raising like ours tend to)
Some GMs cap when a single character appears outrageous compared to the others.Them's the breaks. You want random, you get random. If you don't like that random attribute generation is random, use one of the non-random systems.
So much of this!
IF you want them to roll -- deal with your mistake -- otherwise give the point buy.
Out of curiosity, are these people your friends or just people you happen to know play and joined their game? It seems like they either are an abrasive lot or do not like you very well for one reason or another. I think pretty much everything that could come from a bad DM or a bad party can be overlooked if people are having fun and enjoying themselves, but these people just seem to being unnecessarily mean to you.
Friends yes, though they can be a bit abrasive. I've been playing in a different campaign with the rest of the group (minus the GM) for about a year now (the original post describes about 6 months of gaming 2-3 times a month)
Not trying not pile on, but I got the distinct impression that you were going through a hazing ritual. Do you think this form of treatment (half xp, no share on loot) will stop in the near future?
Not really hazing, and the PF module called for a will save to only take 20% of the damage (rest of party took 24 damage, by that math I would have taken 120, which would still have taken me to -9 at full health, never mind starting out at 55 health).
And starting out with basic gear and a character concept that reflected the area supplied by the DM was applied to anyone - one of the players was playing a hill giant after his last character died.
Since there is no Magus go for the Divine equivalent, the Inquisitor.
The DM played an Inquisitor while I DM'd (with the first set of stats I'd rolled up for him, which ended up equivalent to a 48 point buy).. if I played the same it would have just been a pale imitation. He did kill off his own character when he took over again because it was too powerful.
My original character would have been a fighter/rogue SD (SD got veto'd), made up a non-SD variant (but discarded it as it brought little to the table), this is the character I would have had if not for the temp. Then designed a rogue (skirmisher) horizonwalker, another player pointed out that while neat, it did contribute very little to the party. After the Magus got veto'd I then designed a fighter(5)ranger(1)duellist(6) which is the current character.
Party currently is a battle cleric, summoner (both around since level 1), and a paladin (newly introduced to replace the hill giant while I was DM'ing, with high rolled stats).
Which may or may not make sense from a roleplaying perspective, but from a "let's all work together to do (insert quest here)" point of view they might as well just leave him behind to die, if they won't even share food willingly, let alone any loot.
Party was in an area where there was no need to eat or drink. My character was introduced as having been in conscious statis for 1000 years and old food decaying in my body during this time, during which I developed a ravenous hunger.
Some GMs cap when a single character appears outrageous compared to the others. As long as he's doing it to everybody there is no difference. There are as many styles of character creation as there are groups. I, myself, prefer not to GM a super-super-heroic game because it can too quickly get out of hand. And I also have had a player who wouldn't think twice about bringing a character to the table he had "rolled up the night before" that didn't have a single score under 16 before racial adjustments. We don't know the whole story here.
The character was rolled up in front of the rest of the group while waiting for the DM, and yes it was very heroic statwise.
But other than that, re-reading the OP twice now, there is a lot of information missing.
For instance, after the magus got "voted down," what class did he take? I don't see it. What is the makeup of the rest of the party? Who stuck the OP with the +1 stuff? Did the GM nerf that, or did the OP not know what to do with his starting gold? I has questions.
see above for party stuff. GM made decision on starting gear, gold never even came into the equation.
This whole thread came about because after 6 months of playing I finally entered the campaign with a character I thought I could enjoy and have fun with, and it's been 1 step forwards, 5 steps back and a foot chopped off. Looking back there were highlights that were enjoyable, but for the most part (and possibly one reason why the DM was trying to limit the power of the party) was the campaign seems like a battle cleric/summoner show with a few sidekicks thrown in (not that the former never came in danger of dying, but they (characters) had been around from the beginning and had decent gear on top of being very powerful classes)... another similar powered character or two (instead of 'sidekicks') in the party would render the whole module a cakewalk (as I saw when the DM was playing the inquisitor).
Ok...two questions...
What module was it?
And any chance the GM will start a new game? I am curious because it seems like their is a inbalance between the characters who have been around since 1st level...to the newer ones. Which is a common mistake as previous editions of the game(OD&D...1st ed and 2nd ed) You could do that without upsetting the balance that much...now in 3.5 and PF it sorta just becomes worst and worst if you do it.
Anyway...I don't think it is totaly bad luck you are having...have a chat with the GM...and the group.
I also want to bring up something...but I really don't know enough about the situration so I won't say it...but I really think you should have a talk with the group. Or if they are too abrasive and the GM is not...than just him.
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Made a new character... old character wouldn't have been very effective in party, new planned magus character veto'd (until final version gets published), and my rolled stats were considered too high, so I had to point buy, scramble for a new idea...
The DM played an Inquisitor while I DM'd (with the first set of stats I'd rolled up for him, which ended up equivalent to a 48 point buy).. if I played the same it would have just been a pale imitation. He did kill off his own character when he took over again because it was too powerful.
You probably think you're defending the GM here, but in fact, you're actually doing the opposite.
He retroactively disallows your rolled stats, claiming they offend his sensibilities of balance, but has no reservations against accepting equally high stats for his own PC, when playing under a GM he knows is less experienced, and thus, less likely to be able to adjust the challenges to match.
He tramples all over your scenario, with this PC that, by his own criteria, should never have been allowed, then just before stepping back behind the screen (and presumably having the PC be run by another player, or as an allied NPC), he kicks away the ladder, burns the bridge, shreds the blueprints, breaks the mould, and declares no-one else can make such a character.
He's like a spoiled child, who smashes his toys, rather than be forced to share.
If high stats are off-limits, then they are off limits to everyone, not just the new guy.
If classes and races are off-limits, then they are off-limits to everyone, not just the new guy.
It's fine for there to be multiple GMs in the group, running separate games, with different parameters. E.G. one runs Core+APG, one runs Core-only, one runs Core + 3rd party content, one uses point-buy, another uses rolled stats, but these parameters are set for the life of that campaign. The books allowed, the house-rules used, and the table rules (no grabbing your dice before they can be read, what counts as a cocked die, etc) are agreed on by the group, and apply to all.
They should not change because the player is the GM's girlfriend, or his old schoolbuddy, or the new guy.
New PCs entering the game should be subject to the same rules. Swapping GMs within the same campaign should not result in the group playing by different rules.
GMs should not impose restrictions on their players that they would refuse to abide by.
When playing under another GM, especially in a shared-GM campaign, they should not run PCs that they would refuse to GM for.
Ok...two questions...
What module was it?
have been keeping that deliberately vague to not spoil anything for anyone else
And any chance the GM will start a new game?
They've been on this module for 2 years now and as a player I myself would want to complete something like this too if I started right from the beginning (which we've recently done with Crimson Throne in our other session).
Dude, if I got drafted into GMing this group, I think I'd make them build level 1 PCs and run the 3.5 Tomb of Horrors.
"Oh, so now I have to run the game because I died? Okay, so you see three entrances in the hillside ahead..."
Wankers.
rise of the rune lords
Bwahahahaha! You are so doomed!
rise of the rune lordsBwahahahaha! You are so doomed!
My thoughts as well.
I'm in a game running that and we're at the very end. Literally two or three sessions to go. If I was relegated to +1 or weaker gear... I'd want to be playing a caster. Unless the DM adjusts the difficulty, but it sounds like other players have better gear than that.|
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How come characters aren't given their level appropriate starting gear? There's a table that tells you how much gold you should get at each level. Having standard gear because of the local area might work at low to mid levels, but becomes less convincing at high levels. If you're coming in at level 12, where's all that stuff you accumulated from 1-11?
I think having level AND gear discrepancy is not good for the group. As the OP pointed out, you will always be their sidekick. I stand by what I said before: speak to your DM to see if you can equalize things.
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I generally avoid criticizing other GMs and players when presented with stories like this, because I'm not there, don't know the context, and don't know if what I'm presented is accurate and/or balanced.
In this case, there do seem to be several problems with both the GM and the group, which others have pointed out and I won't dwell on. What it boils down to for me is that apparently they have not been very welcoming to a new player - it certainly appears from your retelling that apparently you haven't felt welcomed.
So my main piece of advice for you is to ask yourself a question: are you having fun? If so, it's probably worth putting in the time and effort to talk to the GM and other players ad explain honestly the problems you have with the way you have been incorporated into the campaign. If not, politely bail.
^^^^
ThisA piece of advice: if you have only a passing knowledge of the rules a 13th level group going up (and you instead going down mo make it worse) is a bad group to learn them.
Not knowing what magic will do, not knowing the equipment combined effects, not knowing what feats do will put you at a huge disadvantage and your gaming group don't seem interested in helping you getting to speed.
You risk ruining your character with some choice that seem good initially but with hindsight you will discover have hindered your character.
If you can find a low level campaign and learn the ropes of the system while playing (obviously still reading the rules when you have time) you will have a better time.
Good luck.
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'Friendly fire'.
Dear God.
Unless someone is hurling flasks and bombs about, and routinely failing to hit touch AC (in which case they have no business using that tactic), or there is some complex illusion/wall of force/gust of wind hazard that a crafty GM can spice up the encounter with (which I doubt is the case here), there is no friendly fire in D&D/PF unless the player intends it to happen.
These people are not 'accidentally catching you in a spell that escaped their control'.
They are lining you up in their cross-hairs, then shooting you in the back of the head. For giggles.You should make it known that their behaviour is ruining the game for you, that you've been a good sport about it and taken the initiation, but now you expect to be treated like a full member of the group, and demand that the griefing stop.
Probably the guys are still playing with the 3-3.5 rules about grappling where every attack against a grappler had a 50% chance of hitting the grappled.
AFAIK that rule don't exist in Pathfinder.
Typical heirloom rules problem. And that will make even harder to get up to speed with the group as they aren't playing Pathfinder but a home brewed version where they they "know" the rules from past versions and apply them unless they have "discovered" the new version.
I know the problem as I suffer from that sometime. I am religiously reading all the spells and stuff again to get what difference I could have missed. I should say that these board helps a lot for that. Even without asking rule questions you often see enlightening comments.
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It sounds like you'd like to create a character that is easy to handle, more about ease of play and lack of weaknesses than about power, and able to handle a significant lack of financial and material resources.
It also sounds like you're not really willing to give up this group. If that is the case, maybe ask if you can rebuild your character, and come ask us for help. We can possibly create a simple character that you can be useful with, and can protect yourself with.
::shrug:: I'd probably go with inquisitor myself. They're not really overpowered, imo. They've got great utility, lots of chances for roleplay, and the ability to shore up weaknesses in gear in a pinch with some spells too.
Okay, I ran Rise of the Runelords, and I can't recognize a single thing that your DM did as being from the adventure path.
Can you give a few examples of what you were fight (in a spoiler, of course)? One main thing, is that Runelords doesn't expect you to be under-equipped.
Probably the guys are still playing with the 3-3.5 rules about grappling where every attack against a grappler had a 50% chance of hitting the grappled.AFAIK that rule don't exist in Pathfinder.
That rule doesn't exist in 3e. Except for ranged attacks. And I think that's still in.
I think the ravenously hungry part was just an RP fluff that either the OP or their DM did. But it happened to further illustrate how much of an outcast the OP is appearing to be from the rest of the party.
I think the ravenously hungry part was just an RP fluff that either the OP or their DM did. But it happened to further illustrate how much of an outcast the OP is appearing to be from the rest of the party.
** spoiler omitted **
Read your spoiler and yes - that is where I figured to, but...
Which is why I wanted more details, in case they found him in one of the other ancient places covered by the AP. I can think of a few others that would work.