Ninja vs. Rogue issues boiled down

[Shuriken Nekogami]

the Ki pool (and it's basic package) should be available to the rogue for the price of a single rogue talent.

here is my explanation

ninja trades evasion for a ki pool

ninja offers the cost of a 'rogue talent' to get it back

thus the 'Ki Pool' (and the rest of the entire related package) should by extension cost the rogue an expenditure of only a single rogue talent.

[Thelemic_Noun]

Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

the Ki pool (and it's basic package) should be available to the rogue for the price of a single rogue talent.

here is my explanation

ninja trades evasion for a ki pool

ninja offers the cost of a 'rogue talent' to get it back

thus the 'Ki Pool' (and the rest of the entire related package) should by extension cost the rogue an expenditure of only a single rogue talent.

But then why even have ninjas? ;p

[Shuriken Nekogami]

Thelemic_Noun wrote:

Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

the Ki pool (and it's basic package) should be available to the rogue for the price of a single rogue talent.

here is my explanation

ninja trades evasion for a ki pool

ninja offers the cost of a 'rogue talent' to get it back

thus the 'Ki Pool' (and the rest of the entire related package) should by extension cost the rogue an expenditure of only a single rogue talent.

But then why even have ninjas? ;p

i would rather have the ninja become a series of rogue talents than an archtype (kind of like the quingong monk) and beleive that archtype abilities should be cherry pickable.

[Shadow_of_death]

Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

the Ki pool (and it's basic package) should be available to the rogue for the price of a single rogue talent.

here is my explanation

ninja trades evasion for a ki pool

ninja offers the cost of a 'rogue talent' to get it back

thus the 'Ki Pool' (and the rest of the entire related package) should by extension cost the rogue an expenditure of only a single rogue talent.

Don't you mean a major rogue talent? As evasion is a 10th level or higher ninja trick.

[Doug OBrien]

Thelemic_Noun wrote:

But then why even have ninjas? ;p

Been asking myself various forms of that question since the 80s.

[krevon]

Well historically, ninja were specialized samurai. They can fight when needed but the important thing is being able to move without being detected. Blending in with surroundings or society.

[Shadow_of_death]

krevon wrote:

Well historically, ninja were specialized samurai. They can fight when needed but the important thing is being able to move without being detected. Blending in with surroundings or society.

Two problems with this.

1) Ninja were either peasant folk that couldn't win a straight up fight, or assassins that did what samurai considered dis-honorable and wouldn't do. So neither where samurai of any sort.

2) Paizo stated the wanted a fantasy ninja and not a historically accurate one.

[The Shaman]

Shadow_of_death wrote:

1) Ninja were either peasant folk that couldn't win a straight up fight, or assassins that did what samurai considered dis-honorable and wouldn't do. So neither where samurai of any sort.

I think some were actually members of the samurai caste, but that's a different and long story. They were basically defined by their function - infiltration and sabotage - rather than their caste. Other than that - yes, I too would much prefer a long rogue archetype, possibly joined with a ki pool-esque ability for rogues that allows them flashes of inspiration to boost their abilities a few times per day.