Wa always played in similar way in 3rd - spreading multiple misiles allowed for destruction of multiple images and with enough missiles and limited number of images guaranteed hit.
However, PF mirror image specificially states:
Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments.
So by RAW magic missile completly ignores mirror image. It is not fooled by that illusion but also cannot be used to destroy images.
To answer the question of magic missile vs. mirror image:
When mirror image is cast, 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images total) are created. These images remain in your space and move with you, mimicking your movements, sounds, and actions exactly. Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead. If the attack is a hit, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. If it is a figment, the figment is destroyed. If the attack misses by 5 or less, one of your figments is destroyed by the near miss. Area spells affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells that require a touch attack are harmlessly discharged if used to destroy a figment.
This quote from the mirror image spell description, pulled from the PRD. Bolded part by me for emphasis.
Edit: Ninja'd!
Edit: Ninja'd!
Yarrr. At least, I won surprise against someone else!
Most spells in the first part of your description are Are of Effect spells, Magic missle is a bit of a odd duck in that it's a single target per missle spell that doesn't require an attack roll but you are aiming for specific targets.Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells that require a touch attack are harmlessly discharged if used to destroy a figment.
This quote from the mirror image spell description, pulled from the PRD. Bolded part by me for emphasis.
Edit: Ninja'd!
It still requires no attack roll. It doesn't matter what kind of spell it is.
I think I would house rule it as you still have to pick the right image because you still have to pick the target if you can't see him you can't hit them with magic missile.
|
Most spells in the first part of your description are Are of Effect spells, Magic missle is a bit of a odd duck in that it's a single target per missle spell that doesn't require an attack roll but you are aiming for specific targets.Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells that require a touch attack are harmlessly discharged if used to destroy a figment.
This quote from the mirror image spell description, pulled from the PRD. Bolded part by me for emphasis.
Edit: Ninja'd!
Mirror image already covers area effect spells in the sentence right before the one that was quoted.
Area spells affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments
The second sentence is for Magic Missile, Chain Lightning, Finger of Death, Implosion and spells such as that. All of these do not require an attack roll, but still can do damage.
|
|
The rules are pretty clear: Magic Missile completely ignores Mirror Image.
On the one hand, it's annoying to the defender, because a first level spell is bypassing his defenses.
On the other hand, a few d4s of damage is significantly better than getting multiple images popped.
And if they have the first level spell "shield" up, then they do not even take the d4's :). I have seen too many big things taken down with magic missile. Every chance I get, I make sure that I have the ability to get the spell "shield" up.
|
|
Thanks for the replies, guess I should have reread the text for Mirror Image.
Ok with Mirror Image out of the way...
Well what happens then if I Magic Missile the illusion of a dragon? Do the missiles fly and just hit nothing? Does the spell just fizzle since the target is not valid?
Did they succeed their saving throw to recognize it as an illusion, assuming this was a figment (I view casting at it as an interaction with it). If so, then the spell is not cast due to invalid target, if they failed their saving throw, then the spell would appear to hit the creature, and it would be up to the caster of the illusion to have it react as if it was hit.
Please note, this is just my way of interpreting that. Not 100% sure on RAW for that one.
Well what happens then if I Magic Missile the illusion of a dragon? Do the missiles fly and just hit nothing? Does the spell just fizzle since the target is not valid?
You expend your spell and make a Will save. If you fail, then you see the missiles damage the dragon. If you succeed, then you see the missiles interact uselessly with what you now recognize to be an illusion.
Well what happens then if I Magic Missile the illusion of a dragon? Do the missiles fly and just hit nothing? Does the spell just fizzle since the target is not valid?You expend your spell and make a Will save. If you fail, then you see the missiles damage the dragon. If you succeed, then you see the missiles interact uselessly with what you now recognize to be an illusion.
An image struck by an opponent disappears unless the caster causes it to act appropriately.
An image struck by an opponent disappears unless the caster causes it to act appropriately.Well what happens then if I Magic Missile the illusion of a dragon? Do the missiles fly and just hit nothing? Does the spell just fizzle since the target is not valid?You expend your spell and make a Will save. If you fail, then you see the missiles damage the dragon. If you succeed, then you see the missiles interact uselessly with what you now recognize to be an illusion.
I'm unfamiliar with that rule. Where is it?
I'm unfamiliar with that rule. Where is it?An image struck by an opponent disappears unless the caster causes it to act appropriately.Well what happens then if I Magic Missile the illusion of a dragon? Do the missiles fly and just hit nothing? Does the spell just fizzle since the target is not valid?You expend your spell and make a Will save. If you fail, then you see the missiles damage the dragon. If you succeed, then you see the missiles interact uselessly with what you now recognize to be an illusion.
It's listed as part of Major Image and logically should be applied to all other image spells.
I'm unfamiliar with that rule. Where is it?An image struck by an opponent disappears unless the caster causes it to act appropriately.Well what happens then if I Magic Missile the illusion of a dragon? Do the missiles fly and just hit nothing? Does the spell just fizzle since the target is not valid?You expend your spell and make a Will save. If you fail, then you see the missiles damage the dragon. If you succeed, then you see the missiles interact uselessly with what you now recognize to be an illusion.
It may count as interacting with an illusion for some GM's, since interacting with an illusion was never really explained too well. If you interact with an illusion you get a will save to disbelieve the illusion.
Some DM's will rule that illusions are not a valid target, and the spell will just fizzle. Either view is valid, but once the spell fizzles it is still likely the player knows something is up, and even with a fizzled spell may get a will save depending on the DM.
I'm unfamiliar with that rule. Where is it?An image struck by an opponent disappears unless the caster causes it to act appropriately.Well what happens then if I Magic Missile the illusion of a dragon? Do the missiles fly and just hit nothing? Does the spell just fizzle since the target is not valid?You expend your spell and make a Will save. If you fail, then you see the missiles damage the dragon. If you succeed, then you see the missiles interact uselessly with what you now recognize to be an illusion.It may count as interacting with an illusion for some GM's, since interacting with an illusion was never really explained too well. If you interact with an illusion you get a will save to disbelieve the illusion.
Some DM's will rule that illusions are not a valid target, and the spell will just fizzle. Either view is valid, but once the spell fizzles it is still likely the player knows something is up, and even with a fizzled spell may get a will save depending on the DM.
That and Major Image explicitly says the image goes away if you don't make it react correctly to being hit.
Almost certainly the reason why this shows up under Major Image and not the others is the extra three rounds at the end of the spell. It seems to be implicitly assumed that if you're concentrating on the illusion, you can make the image act appropriately -- but if you leave the spell to go do something else, you may not be in a position to do so.
It's interesting, though, because without this extra text, failing to cause the illusion to act appropriately would just make it turn translucent for anyone that saw it (assuming that qualifies as proof that it's not real).
|
Whoa, hey now.
Silent Image, Major Image, Programed Image - those are all progressions of the same basic (and very flexible) thing. In those cases, the previous posters are absolutely, 100% correct - no save unless you "spend and action" of some sort to interact with it.
Mirror Image, despite the similar name, is not in the same category. It produces a very specialized effect, which is maintained automatically by the spell. It already assumes that the people whacking away know there are a bunch of illusions, but part of what the spell does is cause all the illusions to imitate the caster automatically, weave in and out and through and around him and so on, so there's no Will Save to negate it.
A will save does absolutely nothing to Mirror Image, just as it does nothing to Invisibility.
That and Major Image explicitly says the image goes away if you don't make it react correctly to being hit.
I don't think this is relevant.
Major Image is a 3rd level spell and requires concentration.Mirror Image is 2nd and doesn't.
EDIT: ninja'd
That and Major Image explicitly says the image goes away if you don't make it react correctly to being hit.I don't think this is relevant.
Major Image is a 3rd level spell and requires concentration.
Mirror Image is 2nd and doesn't.
We're not talking about Mirror Image anymore.
We're not talking about Mirror Image anymore.That and Major Image explicitly says the image goes away if you don't make it react correctly to being hit.I don't think this is relevant.
Major Image is a 3rd level spell and requires concentration.
Mirror Image is 2nd and doesn't.
Ahh...oops.
|
It's very simple. Caster declares how many missles he's firing at the target. As each missle goes off DM makes the random determination individually for each one whether they strike the target or the image.
Is it time for this thread already? We're still in February...
:)
Magic missile is screwed up as it declares the target has to be a creature and then in the description says it can't do any damage to inanimate objects. Yet there's a 3.5 FAQ somewhere that says magic missile IS effective against mirror image. (And so is Cleave -- if you hit the illusion you get another attack against someone else. That seems to run counter to the fluff that I place around Cleave.)
It doesn't really matter. Just pick a way to play it and stick to it.
If you want an exhaustive discussion, do a Google search for "magic missile" and "mirror image" with "site:enworld.org".
|
|
It's very simple. Caster declares how many missles he's firing at the target. As each missle goes off DM makes the random determination individually for each one whether they strike the target or the image.Is it time for this thread already? We're still in February...
:)
Magic missile is screwed up as it declares the target has to be a creature and then in the description says it can't do any damage to inanimate objects. Yet there's a 3.5 FAQ somewhere that says magic missile IS effective against mirror image. (And so is Cleave -- if you hit the illusion you get another attack against someone else. That seems to run counter to the fluff that I place around Cleave.)
It doesn't really matter. Just pick a way to play it and stick to it.
If you want an exhaustive discussion, do a Google search for "magic missile" and "mirror image" with "site:enworld.org".
Which is no longer good in Pathfinder, since they specify that it does not break images in Mirror Image. Mirror Image was changed from 3.5 to PF.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Can you magic missile and Illusion?
This leads to my mirror image question. what happens when a Magic Missile spell is cast on someone under a mirror image spell? Do the Magic Missiles home in on the real target? do they just fizzle out? Do you just destroy x number of images?
Yes and it appears to hit the illusion.
Yes and you have X number of hits, so you process X die roll to see if they hit the real target and remove however many images and/or deal damage on the ones that didn't hit an image.
Yes and you have X number of hits, so you process X die roll to see if they hit the real target and remove however many images and/or deal damage on the ones that didn't hit an image.
As demonstrated above, this is not correct. Magic missile does not interact in any way with mirror image.
I'm honestly kind of disappointed in this change. (Kind of.) Magic missile used to be the de facto way to get rid of an annoying mirror image spell. (We subscribed to the "target every image with all available missiles" school.)
Ah well.
Yeah, Mirror Image clearly only is relevant for [ attack roll ] effects.
IMHO, Cleave and Whirlwind can work fine on it (if you don't like the idea of same-square targets counting as adjacent, don't ask me to introduce you to the pixie centurions). Probably the new very effective means against it is summoning as many Lantern Archons as you can, they all get 2 attacks per round and are helpful after the images are down anyways.
Right, a change I wasn't aware from 3.5 to PF.
Man, do I wish I had a dollar for every time I've had to say that....
If you Trample a Mirror imaged mage, are all his images trampled and thus destroyed since they are all in "the path" of the trampler?
No, for the same reason that you cannot destroy images with a Fireball.
Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments