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On a similar note: Shrink Item + Telekinesis. Find or purchase a boulder or ball or iron that is the maximum weight you can hurl with telekinesis. Permanency shrink item on it. You then have a very high damage weapon that you can use over and over again, and can easily carry around and hide on your person, even as a puny wizard. This is particularly fun with a ring of telekinesis. You can have a 9d6 damage attack effectively at-will.
This is a good idea.
Unfortunately, it doesn't actually work that much. Shrink Item does not get up to really big items. A DM who crunches the numbers can tell you 'no' and be justified.
PS This sounds familiar... ;)Amazing Flight: Use Telekinesis to toss enemies into Prismatic Wall.
You recognise it? A smile lights up my face! ;-)
I favourite one that I pulled off in a game was a black tentacles on a wizard and a bard, followed by a quickened stinking cloud to remove any of thier actions that they may have. They were stuck there taking damage from the tentacles while i softened them up with some fireballs.
The indigo field stops all magic, and the violet all effects. That shuts down reverse gravity right there...it would lead up to the sphere, and not go thru it.
The relevant term on passing through is thus:
You can pass into and out of the prismatic sphere and remain near it without harm. When you're inside it, however, the sphere blocks any attempt to project something through the sphere (including spells). Other creatures that attempt to attack you or pass through suffer the effects of each color, one at a time.
They aren't attempting to pass through...you're attempting to force them. But your telekinesis can't push them into the field, nor will reverse gravity. They'll get stopped, and since they aren't attempting to go through, suffer none of the ill effects.
In effect, they'll try to keep the wall solid and NOT let them through, whereas you want them to say "Hey, I'll just try to go through the wall this wizard wants to shove me through, make 7 saves and take all the damage!"
Nope. You can touch a prismatic wall, lean on it, walk on it (if in a sphere) and it won't do anything unless you attempt to pass through it. You attempting to throw someone ELSE through it means nothing to them. If they don't want to pass through, it's just another solid surface.
====Aelryinth
This one has more of an evil bent to it. Flesh to Stone + Stone Shape + Stone to Flesh. It is easy to interrogate someone if you can turn their arm (if they are lucky) into any shape you want.
I don't think stone shape could be used in this fashion to reshape a person's anatomy. Otherwise, we'd have players trying to give themselves fangs, claws and wings with the same combo. If you were to try it, I suspect your target would simply end up with a mutilated (former) arm. If mutilation is your goal though, it'd be easier to get the same results with a rusty knife.
The indigo field stops all magic, and the violet all effects. That shuts down reverse gravity right there...it would lead up to the sphere, and not go thru it.
The relevant term on passing through is thus:
You can pass into and out of the prismatic sphere and remain near it without harm. When you're inside it, however, the sphere blocks any attempt to project something through the sphere (including spells). Other creatures that attempt to attack you or pass through suffer the effects of each color, one at a time.
They aren't attempting to pass through...you're attempting to force them. But your telekinesis can't push them into the field, nor will reverse gravity. They'll get stopped, and since they aren't attempting to go through, suffer none of the ill effects.
In effect, they'll try to keep the wall solid and NOT let them through, whereas you want them to say "Hey, I'll just try to go through the wall this wizard wants to shove me through, make 7 saves and take all the damage!"
Nope. You can touch a prismatic wall, lean on it, walk on it (if in a sphere) and it won't do anything unless you attempt to pass through it. You attempting to throw someone ELSE through it means nothing to them. If they don't want to pass through, it's just another solid surface.
====Aelryinth
Okay after doing some more reading I wild have to mostly agree with you regarding this combo. Where I differ, though, is acting it as a solid surface. I kno wall is in the name, but I never treated this as a solid wall considering it is described as a plane of light (or sphere) and it's components are entirely magic. The other reason I changed my mind is the fact that the spells are abjurations, something I wasn't thinking about when I brought it up.
If an abjurations creates a barrier that keeps certain types of creatures at bay, that barrier cannot be used to push away those creatures. If you force the barrier against such a creature, you feel a discernible pressure against the barrier. If you continue to apply pressure, you end the spell
It's not much of a stretch to say forcing a creature through a barrier would do the dame thing, and end the spell.
Sorry for the typos, but you guys should know what I mean. My iPhone isn't keen on letting me scroll over long posts like that.
Moment of prescience already casted + prismatic sphere + quickened telekinesis( using M.P.).
Moment of prescience already casted + prismatic sphere + quickened telekinesis( using M.P.).
sorry primatic wall
On a similar note: Shrink Item + Telekinesis. Find or purchase a boulder or ball or iron that is the maximum weight you can hurl with telekinesis. Permanency shrink item on it. You then have a very high damage weapon that you can use over and over again, and can easily carry around and hide on your person, even as a puny wizard. This is particularly fun with a ring of telekinesis. You can have a 9d6 damage attack effectively at-will.This is a good idea.
Unfortunately, it doesn't actually work that much. Shrink Item does not get up to really big items. A DM who crunches the numbers can tell you 'no' and be justified.
There are lots of materials that are dense enough to weight 375 lb. and stay within the volume limits of shrink item.
The trick does work, it just takes slightly rarer, harder to find materials.
Mirror Image + displacement. Each image gains a 50% miss chance.Each of the images is not enchanted with displacement, so this won't work. It's an offshoot of the invisible/caster is blind effect. The spell basically ignores concealment.
Not according to the 3.5 FAQ, and since the spells haven't changed with regard to whether the image looks exactly like the caster, I don't know why they would for PF. . .
And for once, this is a 3.5 FAQ ruling that makes sense q:
If the user has concealment from her surroundings, the
images have the same concealment. The images also look just
like the caster, and they share purely visual effects such as the
blur or displacement spell. If the mirror image user is also
using either of these effects, an attack aimed at an image has
the same miss chance an attack aimed at the caster has.
Mirror Image + displacement. Each image gains a 50% miss chance.Each of the images is not enchanted with displacement, so this won't work. It's an offshoot of the invisible/caster is blind effect. The spell basically ignores concealment.
First, Mirror Image does not ignore concealment. If you're standing in a heavy fog you and all your images gain a 20% miss chance.
Second, Displacement does not grant any kind of concealment, let alone total. If it did you would be able to use displacement to make a stealth check, a Rogue could use sneak attack, and enemies would have to make perception checks to pinpoint you.
Also, the prismatic sphere/reverse Gravity trick doesn't work. The sphere stops all magic and all living matter. The Reverse Gravity will end where it hits the sphere, and unless the person is trying to pass through, he'll just hit the outside of the sphere and stay there, taking no damage. You can't FORCE him to pass through it...he can let himself be kept out.
==Aelryinth
Which is why you have to cast Reverse Gravity first. Not only do you not care if the sphere messes with the magic under it (your target is already above the sphere. It's actual gravity that forces him through the sphere which is not affected.) Your target also does not have an opportunity to move out from under the sphere, which any sane creature would.
I like Feeblemind + Ray of Stupidity.
That's a good one too.
That's a good one too.I like Feeblemind + Ray of Stupidity.
What are some good low level combos? 0 to 4th lvl spells...
Loving the combos, we need MOAR!
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Unseen Servent + Grease
Make them drop their weapon and have the servent take it away. Works better at higher levels with Telekinesis instead of Grease.
The indigo field stops all magic, and the violet all effects. That shuts down reverse gravity right there...it would lead up to the sphere, and not go thru it.
Maybe not the magic, but the victim will go through. Momentum's a b#~#+. And then, of course, when he stops falling upwards, the normal gravity will reassert itself, and he will fall through the wall the other way round. Not as much as before, but still. And then it will repeat itself until the victim stops at the event horizon.
I think it works better if you can get a blade-barrier involved and send the guy seesawing back and forth through that.
sorry primatic wallMoment of prescience already casted + prismatic sphere + quickened telekinesis( using M.P.).
Extra sorry "cast" not "casted" ;-P
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Hookup: Summon Monster VI to summon a succubus and suggestion to tell victim "She told me she wants you, go hit her so hard her daughter is born pregnant."
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Similiar to the Shrink Item trick, my favorite combo is Dimension Door, Feather Fall, and a nearby, unattended 250' rock or other item. Dim door up to lethal falling range and drop said object on enemy, with a feather fall for safety and distance of course (fly would work too).
This is good for 3 reasons: It gets you out of the fight, it changes the battlefield slightly, and deals 20d6 damage one foe.
I also like trying to yank an enemy out of the fight and drop them on their allies. Sure, the Will Save makes it a little dicey, but its far more fun dropping that Hill Giant from 500' in the air on his buddy than just casting a Hold spell and coup-de grace-ing away.
Similiar to the Shrink Item trick, my favorite combo is Dimension Door, Feather Fall, and a nearby, unattended 250' rock or other item. Dim door up to lethal falling range and drop said object on enemy, with a feather fall for safety and distance of course (fly would work too).
This is good for 3 reasons: It gets you out of the fight, it changes the battlefield slightly, and deals 20d6 damage one foe.
I also like trying to yank an enemy out of the fight and drop them on their allies. Sure, the Will Save makes it a little dicey, but its far more fun dropping that Hill Giant from 500' in the air on his buddy than just casting a Hold spell and coup-de grace-ing away.
Yank them out of the fight and drop them with D. Door? Isn't that spell willing creatures only? Also, D. Door states you can't take any actions until your next turn. How do you cast Feather Fall?
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Hookup: Summon Monster VI to summon a succubus and suggestion to tell victim "She told me she wants you, go hit her so hard her daughter is born pregnant."
0.o Wow!
Are you sure that you shouldn't be sporting a Cheliaxian faction symbol (like you used to?) instead of that Andoran one you currently have?
Or did I just blow your cover? :)
PS. Keep 'em coming, I find them most entertaining!
Yank them out of the fight and drop them with D. Door? Isn't that spell willing creatures only? Also, D. Door states you can't take any actions until your next turn. How do you cast Feather Fall?
Ah, right you are. Subtle changes like that from 3.5 that I occasionally miss are the reason I'm glad for threads like this.
At any rate, I guess then Fly, Dim-Door, and large unattended object. It works mainly if you're playing in the outdoors, but still highly effective.
What's the ruling on Web + Summon Swarm (spiders)? Can the spiders move within the web?
Another low level combo is quickened cause fear + create pit
If they succeed on the save vs fear they take a -2 to the reflex save vs the pit.
Hookup: Summon Monster VI to summon a succubus and suggestion to tell victim "She told me she wants you, go hit her so hard her daughter is born pregnant."0.o Wow!
Are you sure that you shouldn't be sporting a Cheliaxian faction symbol (like you used to?) instead of that Andoran one you currently have?
Or did I just blow your cover? :)
PS. Keep 'em coming, I find them most entertaining!
I'm part of Andoran's BlackOps team. I get to do all the nasty things I want for the greater good. (And yes, succubi are nasty things...)
Nothing wrong with evil, but everything wrong with order, so I'm hell-bent (hee hee hee) on Cheliax's destruction.
The indigo field stops all magic, and the violet all effects. That shuts down reverse gravity right there...it would lead up to the sphere, and not go thru it.Maybe not the magic, but the victim will go through. Momentum's a b#%~%. And then, of course, when he stops falling upwards, the normal gravity will reassert itself, and he will fall through the wall the other way round. Not as much as before, but still. And then it will repeat itself until the victim stops at the event horizon.
I think it works better if you can get a blade-barrier involved and send the guy seesawing back and forth through that.
He is not attempting to go through it. Attempt means he has to be willfully trying to pierce it. If he's not, all he does is bounce against the edge of the spell, warded away. Momentum means NOTHING.
Reverse Gravity is cast on an area, which the sphere interdicts. okay, he's in the air...the sphere cuts it off...he falls...hits the sphere...decides NOT to attempt to fall through it...bounces off...slides down for normal falling damage.
---------
Your research on the displacement/mirror images is excellent for 3.5, and if you want to use that ruling, it works.
But the spell itself merely references a roll to hit, then a chance that you hit an image or the real person. The spell itself has no inclusion for concealment or miss chances EXCEPT if the attacker is blind...and that's because the spell doesn't work at all. Technically, what would happen is there would be a to hit roll, image or person; if person, then roll miss chance from the displacement; then roll from blur; the magic shouldn't stack with images, which literally have nothing to hide. You're swinging at a blurry image...how can an image not be where it is? Heh.
Mirror Image does not reference miss chances in its resolution paragraph.
I agree they should do a Pathfinder errata on it to make it official. Super-layering concealment effects was one way mages borked the AC system entirely. If you didn't have blindsight or true seeing, you were borked.
==Aelryinth
Super-layering concealment effects was one way mages borked the AC system...
In my experience, the AC system has been messed up from the get go. It gets to the point in some games I've been in that concealment effects are the only way to avoid getting hit at all.
The rogue I play currently started taking levels of wizard just so I could cast blur and displacement.
Ginsu: Grease + Blade Barrier
Tug o' War: Black Tentacles on floor followed by Black Tentacles on roof ten feet above.
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A couple my Wizards have used to devastating effect over the years:
Any Wall spell coupled with Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill, Acid Fog or Incendiary Cloud.
Bonus points if you can wrap the Wall spell around the target(s) completely. A particularly vicious combo is the Wall of Force coupled with Acid Fog, then get somebody to toss vials of Inhaled Poisons over the top of the Wall spell.
Aqueous Orb coupled with Cone of Cold or another Cold-dealing spell to trap the target within the now-solid ice Aqueous Orb. Roll them out of the dungeon and down to the town to collect the bounty for bonus points. Back in the old days would use a Decanter of Endless Water and the good old CoC, but that required a lot of team-work to pull off.
He is not attempting to go through it. Attempt means he has to be willfully trying to pierce it. If he's not, all he does is bounce against the edge of the spell, warded away. Momentum means NOTHING.Reverse Gravity is cast on an area, which the sphere interdicts. okay, he's in the air...the sphere cuts it off...he falls...hits the sphere...decides NOT to attempt to fall through it...bounces off...slides down for normal falling damage.
Prismatic Sphere says
"You can pass into and out of the prismatic sphere and remain nearit without harm. When you’re inside it, however, the sphere blocks
any attempt to project something through the sphere (including
spells). Other creatures that attempt to attack you or pass through
suffer the effects of each color, one at a time."
It doesn't really say attempt to pass though just attempt to attack. It makes no sence that someone can will themselves to not pass through Prismatic Sphere or wall just because they were pushed.
I would say that falling through a sphere is attempting to pass through it. Not by any voluntary choice, but its still attempting to pass through it at any rate.
EDIT: At any rate, what the previous poster said. It could be read as "a creature attempting to attack you or a creature passing through"
It doesn't really say attempt to pass though just attempt to attack. It makes no sence that someone can will themselves to not pass through Prismatic Sphere or wall just because they were pushed.
Yes, so as long as you don't try to attack through it there's no issue.
And it's MAGIC. It doesn't have to make sense, at least not in a case like this. When magic does and doesn't work is up to the magic, not reality. It doesn't make sense that a dragon, that is made of flesh, can't be burned with fireball - since flesh can burn. Still, it can't, because of the magic involved.
Prismatic sphere is an abjuration, the spell school most focused on warding and defense. That a prismatic sphere would only hurt those voluntarily trying to break through it makes sense. Whether it's somewhat solid or not to those not trying to break through is a matter of interpretation, but it's CLEARLY stated that you have to attempt to pass or attack through to suffer negative consequences.
I would say that falling through a sphere is attempting to pass through it. Not by any voluntary choice, but its still attempting to pass through it at any rate.
EDIT: At any rate, what the previous poster said. It could be read as "a creature attempting to attack you or a creature passing through"
t·tempt
  /əˈtɛmpt/ Show Spelled[uh-tempt] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to make an effort at; try; undertake; seek: to attempt an impossible task; to attempt to walk six miles.
2.
Archaic . to attack; move against in a hostile manner: to attempt a person's life.
3.
Archaic . to tempt.
You "don't make an effort", the wizard makes an effort to push you through. And you're not undertaking it. You don't seek to pass through, you're forced to.
Attempt clearly involves actively trying to get through, not being forced.
And on the edit, that's just nonsense. In that case you'd cast it long before battle, teleport out, and have a [b]far[b] better personal protection than any other defensive spell in the game since anyone attacking you would suffer the effects.
He is not attempting to go through it. Attempt means he has to be willfully trying to pierce it. If he's not, all he does is bounce against the edge of the spell, warded away. Momentum means NOTHING.Reverse Gravity is cast on an area, which the sphere interdicts. okay, he's in the air...the sphere cuts it off...he falls...hits the sphere...decides NOT to attempt to fall through it...bounces off...slides down for normal falling damage.
Prismatic Sphere says
"You can pass into and out of the prismatic sphere and remain near
it without harm. When you’re inside it, however, the sphere blocks
any attempt to project something through the sphere (including
spells). Other creatures that attempt to attack you or pass through
suffer the effects of each color, one at a time."It doesn't really say attempt to pass though just attempt to attack. It makes no sence that someone can will themselves to not pass through Prismatic Sphere or wall just because they were pushed.
Actually, the reverse.
It makes no sense that someone could be forced through an abjuration spell more powerful then a wall of force unless, as the spell says, they were ACTIVELY ATTEMPTING, to do so.Per the rules of english,if you wanted to break that up into two actions, you'd say creatures that 'attack you or pass through'.
As soon as you add the 'attempt to', it modifies BOTH the following actions.
If it were 'attempt to attack', and 'pass through' as seperate actions, it would need a further modifier, and a comma. "Creatures that attempt to attack you, or that pass through the barrier, etc'
They really do have to attempt to do so. Prismatic Sphere is more powerful then a wall of force, it just allows people to get through it (so the caster can walk in and out) if they are willing to brave the effects and consequences.
Do I agree the wording could be more clear? Absolutely. That's what happens when you cut and paste, and editors don't look at errata and intent. But then, when the spells were originally made, nobody was thinking about combos, and they never bothered to update the usage.
==Aelryinth
Magic Jar + Binding (Minimus Containment), for all those wannabe-liches out there.
Hypnotism + Ventriloquism, to add to your "it wasn't me" bluff while enchanting from around the corner.
Continual Flame + Sepia Snake Sigil, preferably both cast as Shadow Conjuration/Evocation to keep the costs down. Cast the Flame on a book, and Sigil on every page. If you ever get trapped, you can live (almost) forever by reading a page every time you wake up. This works down a mine shaft, underwater or even inside a Bag of Holding.
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Magic Jar + Binding (Minimus Containment), for all those wannabe-liches out there.
Hypnotism + Ventriloquism, to add to your "it wasn't me" bluff while enchanting from around the corner.
Continual Flame + Sepia Snake Sigil, preferably both cast as Shadow Conjuration/Evocation to keep the costs down. Cast the Flame on a book, and Sigil on every page. If you ever get trapped, you can live (almost) forever by reading a page every time you wake up. This works down a mine shaft, underwater or even inside a Bag of Holding.
Didn't I come up with the Magic Jar + Binding combo? I hate that I didn't think to post it myself!
As for your Sepia trick, I'm picturing some underwater or cave welling creature eating you while you are helpless to stop it. The spell also doesn't seem to indicate anything about losing consciousness. I imagine if you stayed frozen for days, weeks, and months at a time, you would be long made by the time you are freed.
Either way, that would really suck.
On a similar note: Shrink Item + Telekinesis. Find or purchase a boulder or ball or iron that is the maximum weight you can hurl with telekinesis. Permanency shrink item on it. You then have a very high damage weapon that you can use over and over again, and can easily carry around and hide on your person, even as a puny wizard. This is particularly fun with a ring of telekinesis. You can have a 9d6 damage attack effectively at-will.
There are lots of materials that are dense enough to weight 375 lb. and stay within the volume limits of shrink item.
The trick does work, it just takes slightly rarer, harder to find materials.
Couldn't you alternately carry a Quiver of Ehlonna full of spears, or a Bag of Holding full of greatswords, and use them? That would give you up to your caster level in weapon damage strikes. Lots of attack rolls that way though.
Couldn't you alternately carry a Quiver of Ehlonna full of spears, or a Bag of Holding full of greatswords, and use them? That would give you up to your caster level in weapon damage strikes. Lots of attack rolls that way though.
Yes, you could. In fact, it actually works better this way, because you are pretty much guaranteed to do some damage. It won't be all hit or miss like it would be with a lead bowling ball.
As for your Sepia trick,
<snip>
that would really suck.
True, but it's useful when a DM has to justify living guards inside a sealed tomb or something like that. Anyway, here's one for an evil Bard: Animal Messenger + Delay Poison. Poison some poor creature, delay the effects and then send it into someone's well or larder to die there.
Hilarity ensues, provided you have an evil sense of humour.
Not to necromancy an old point, but I still don't see why hideous laughter + aqueous orb is so devastating...
Aqueous orb allows 2 saves before you're engulfed, hideous laughter allows a save of its own. So 2 spells and 3 saves later, a character is engulfed. Now hideous laughter doesn't say anything about having to breathe or anything along those lines. Granted they are laughing, but nothing in the rules says that they can't hold their breath. As a DM, I would likely say that there is a penalty for laughing (they would need to start making con checks on the first round probably), but this is simply a houserule and nothing in the rules supports it...
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Not to necromancy an old point, but I still don't see why hideous laughter + aqueous orb is so devastating...
Aqueous orb allows 2 saves before you're engulfed, hideous laughter allows a save of its own. So 2 spells and 3 saves later, a character is engulfed. Now hideous laughter doesn't say anything about having to breathe or anything along those lines. Granted they are laughing, but nothing in the rules says that they can't hold their breath. As a DM, I would likely say that there is a penalty for laughing (they would need to start making con checks on the first round probably), but this is simply a houserule and nothing in the rules supports it...
This would be a point where common sense trumps the fact that there isn't a specific rule governing the issue at hand. It is physically impossible to hold your breath while you collapse into "gales of manic laughter." Go on, try it, I dare you.
Beast Shape I and Geas/Quest.
"A talking bird just told me that I'm the chosen one!"
HA!!! +1