Ijitsu: class feature or combat maneuver


Samurai Discussion: Round 1


So I am currently beta testing some alternate rules in a beta game and amongst my alternate rules is a samurai variant with the ability Ijitsu. After some discussion I've come to question whether to keep it as a class feature or change it to a standard combat maneuver. What I currently have is as follows:

Spoiler:
Ijitsu (Ex): At 3rd level, a samurai gains the ability to use a unique combat maneuver of ijitsu. Ijitsu is a swift action that can only be used when the samurai draws his weapon while within melee range of the target. The samurai does a combat maneuver check against his target; if he succeeds the target is considered flat-footed for the rest of the round. This combat maneuver may be used at the end of a charge, and if it succeeds it will stop any readied action or attack of opportunity in response to the charge. (Being a combat maneuver ijitsu still provokes an attack of opportunity unless the samurai has the feat improved ijitsu.)

Whirlwind ijitsu (Ex): At 11th level, when using ijitsu a samurai may use an honor point to use the combat maneuver on as many targets within range as he has attacks he can use that combat round. Only one roll needs to be made for all targets of the maneuver when used this way. Also when used with a charge a samurai may spend an honor point to attack foes along the way of the charge while using ijitsu as if you weren’t mobile.

And its associated feats:

Spoiler:
Improved Ijitsu
Prerequisite: Dex 13, Ijitsu class feature.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing an ijitsu combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks using ijitsu on a foe. You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense when an opponent tries to use ijitsu on you.

Greater Ijitsu
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Improved Ijitsu, Whirlwind ijitsu class feature, and Honor’s way class feature.
Benefit: You may spend an honor point after successfully using ijitsu at the end of a charge to do a full-round attack on the target of the ijitsu. In addition, your Improved Ijitsu bonuses increase to +4.

This is the full alternate class HERE


Should be flat-footed against that attack, not for full round, and not negate a readied brace. Possibly at most reduce charging AC penalty by 1.

Greater should remain flat-footed against that attack, and does not count as charging for purposes of bracing readied actions. Possibly at most reduce charging AC penalty by 2.

If you want to add class features to it as well, perhaps an improvement could be at bab +11 allow giving up the highest attack for taking the rest of their attacks like all the other mobile full attack abilities.


Whirlwind Ijistu seems dangerous that you can do it at the end of a charge. That's more or less Pounce in all but name. Just strikes me as over much.


From the description "Ijitsu" seems to be referring to Iaijutsu.

Iaijutsu might not be the most appropriate term for an ability/feat chain like this since one of the most central forms of training in Iaijutsu is using the sword-drawing art from a sitting position. It tends to refer more to the technique of drawing the sword and being able to respond to a threat with lightning speed, less to using the sword to cut during the drawing action.

The differences between the disciplines is not very great, but the technique you are looking for seems more in line with Battoujutsu. Battoujutsu training places a greater emphasis on continuing the draw into a cut or multiple cuts on an opponent.

Either way, the line between the two disciplines (or also Iaido) are rather blurred and not something that warrants a huge distinction. Unless you are dealing with practitioners of both the arts, then there will likely be a heated discussion as to the subtle nuances and differences between them, whether practical or philosophic.


My personal preference is that Combat Maneuvers remain "attack-like actions for which size is a benefit rather than a hindrance", because that is what the numbers reflect. Obviously, not everyone feels this way, when you consider the Steal maneuver in the APG. Just a thought though.


How many honor points does a samurai have again??

Now, that being said, I think I like this class feature


We'll be introducing an Honor Mechanic for Kaidan, in the second adventure, The Curse of the Golden Spear: Part 2 - Dim Spirit, which will be released in early April 2011. These products are an imprint under Rite Publishing.

We are also introducing Iaijutsu (might really be battoujutsu, but semantics) which utilizes the entire Vital Strike feat chain and some additional feats tied to that.

Adventure 1 - The Curse of the Golden Spear: Part 1 - The Gift, should be released in two weeks. However, our first product release will be In the Company of Kappa - a player character race book with traits, paragon class, kappa archetypes and recommended APG archetypes is scheduled for release Feb 22nd 2011.

In the following months there will be race books for Henge and Tengu, also class/caste books for Yakuza, Samurai and Shinobi.

Anything that Paizo chooses not to cover, we certainly will.

GP


OK, so looking through it I figured how I would do ijitsu as a combat maneuver. I'm rather satisfied with it and since I kinda feel like my samurai variant isn't good enough I'm dropping it from my current beta game. Hopefully my players will try it out (the ninja should enjoy it), and if not I will have my NPCs mess around with it. Including the newer concept of a combat maneuver class I decided to hammer out.

Here is the ijitsu as a combat maneuver:

Spoiler:
Ijitsu – You can leave your foe flat-footed until the end of your next round as an attack action. Ijitsu can be used once a round when a character draws a melee weapon. If you do not have the Improved Ijitsu feat, or a similar ability, attempting to use ijitsu on a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Just like feint, this maneuver will not make a target with uncanny dodge become flat-footed, but will deny the target’s Dex to AC.

and the associated feats:

Spoiler:
Improved Ijitsu
Prerequisite: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing an ijitsu combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks using ijitsu on a foe. You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense when an opponent tries to use ijitsu on you.

Greater Ijitsu
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Ijitsu, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on checks using ijitsu on a foe. This bonus stacks with Improved Ijitsu. After a successful ijitsu you may damage your foe as if you had hit them with the weapon used for the ijitsu.

Swift Ijitsu
Prerequisite: Dex 17, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Ijitsu, base attack bonus +9
Benefit: When ever you successfully perform an ijitsu you may sheathe the weapon used as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

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