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Syrus Terrigan wrote:
why does math suck, generally speaking? -- because most instructors are bad at it. (the instructing part, more than the math. perhaps. but i can't math enough to tell. none of it made sense past geometry.)

Administrators/Teachers/Mathies/Mooninites? remain obsessed with party trick approaches to math- outlandishly unrealistic scenarios and obscure areas of discipline made out to be "normal". Xkcd be damned, it's been 30 years and I and most others have still NEVER used any of the stuff we were taught. No, it didn't result in us having a "better mind" or any of the nonsense explanations aimed at us either, and there are better ways to improve thought processes than to use obscure math problems to make the people above feel good that they are making smart kids.


THATS RIGHT IM NAKED YOU CANT HIDE THE TRUTH


Freehold DM wrote:
Syrus Terrigan wrote:
why does math suck, generally speaking? -- because most instructors are bad at it. (the instructing part, more than the math. perhaps. but i can't math enough to tell. none of it made sense past geometry.)
Administrators/Teachers/Mathies/Mooninites? remain obsessed with party trick approaches to math- outlandishly unrealistic scenarios and obscure areas of discipline made out to be "normal". Xkcd be damned, it's been 30 years and I and most others have still NEVER used any of the stuff we were taught. No, it didn't result in us having a "better mind" or any of the nonsense explanations aimed at us either, and there are better ways to improve thought processes than to use obscure math problems to make the people above feel good that they are making smart kids.

And as usual, here's where we fundamentally disagree:

Statement: Throughout recorded history, leaders, advertisers, and influencers have lied to the masses to exploit their gullibility, almost always with seriously detrimental effects to society as a whole.

Conclusion: Any educational system should train students to be skeptical and to think logically. The two obvious paths to this are courses in rhetoric or courses in mathematical logic. I'd honestly love to see both as requirements to graduate from high school. Unfortunately, rhetoric necessarily involves real political issues, and as we've seen all too often, when you try to tell someone something with which they disagree, they'll frequently tune you out or double down on their convictions.
It's not a coincidence that when I was taking mathematical logic classes at UC Berkeley the majority of students were religious students from a nearby synagogue. Rabbis must be masters of logic. Taking it as an abstract mathematical course removes possible bias or mental shutdowns.

Recommendation: In order to understand a mathematical logic course, students need to know the basics of algebra. So they should have one year of algebra under their belts to understand what variables are, what legal vs. illegal operations are, and to get accustomed to working in the abstract. They should then get one year of mathematical logic. The typical way to teach this is through geometry because geometry is fantastic at showing students that just because it looks that way in the picture doesn't mean it's true. The focus should be on being skeptical, using logic, and coming to conclusions. Finally, once students have the algebra and geometry under their belts, they should have a year of rhetoric to get real-world practice in applying this logic to emotional situations.

Oh, speaking of learning new things every day. I was going to say, "And, other than the rhetoric, this aligns with current U.S. requirements," but I'm wrong. California only requires 2 units of math to graduate from high school. Most states require 4.

So yeah, my huge issue with the way mathematics is taught today is that teachers pretend that the mathematics itself is useful, or they punish independent thought. Students who want to go into STEM areas should have access to higher-level mathematics courses. Students who don't should be clearly told, "We're teaching you this to train you not to jump to conclusions. You'll never actually use any of this once you graduate." I don't believe in lying to people just because you think it might be better for them.

EDIT: And yes, back when I taught basic algebra I'd prove on the board that 1+1=1 or that all triangles are isosceles and then I'd open up a discussion as to what went wrong and why. Because it's far more important for students to understand the logic and the methods than to memorize the exact conditions under which the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus applies. If I need to use the theorem, I can Google the conditions to make sure I did it right.


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That its really cold out today?

Sovereign Court

Waterhammer wrote:
*Wonders what a statue of a horse is shaped like.*

I believe that they would be shaped like an elephant doing a handstand.


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NobodysHome wrote:


Conclusion: Any educational system should train students to be skeptical and to think logically.

I'm trying to think of case where something is both logical and so complicated that algebra is involved and I've got nothing. When translating logical errors I'm always putting words back into the ABC parts rather than using any kind of algebra.

If anything, teaching this as math enables bad thinking either for good or ill. The real world simply does not run on logic or easy categories and absolutes to make the sort of certainty you need here applicable. I have seen people be incredibly wrong AND incredibly sure of themselves because they thought their thinking resolved to a math problem, rather than an opinion or a more Baysean way of looking at things: This has caused enough problems that my response is in my profile.

All men are bald
Socrates is a man
Therefore socrates is bald.

Is the first day of philosophy class but...It's already wrong out of the gate. without seeing Socrates you can't know your first premise.

For a board relevant and non political example, there was an infamous FAQ in PF1 about the DC to jump over a pit.

The DC= the distance moved
Pathfinder characters move in squares
Each square is 5 feet
You must move 2 squares to clear a 5 foot pit

The DC to jump a 5 foot pit is thus DC 10

There were dozens of other lines of argument, including a chart spelling out the exact DCs, that people ignored because they were mathematically sure of their answer. When other arguments were tried, they repeated their argument that they must be right so you must be wrong.

A---B---> C therefore D

X--Y---Z--> Therefore Not D

There can both be perfectly reasonable and well evidenced things. They can both give contradictory answers. They can both still be wrong. The point of science is to test an idea. The point of thinking is to come up with an idea to test and to try to get one that's more likely to work than random so you're not wasting quite as much time with nonsense.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
...
...

Well, as we've noted before, there are fundamental differences of opinion here, so I try not to argue it too much to avoid turning FaWtL into a debate on the merits of mathematics.

We can at least all agree that bad math instructors are a scourge upon the Earth.


Quote:
"So, just because you know two facts doesn't imply you know a third

Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't.

It depends on those facts? You know side side angle that doesn't tell you anything about congruency but Side Angle Side does (if the archeology team responsible for information data retrieval in my brain is correct...) You can pick either real world correlation you think illustrates the point. I don't think theres a way to math whether A and B imply C or not without being knowledgeable of the specifics.

"Lies damned lies and statistics" should be the latter half of a logical thinking class (Vulcanology 101?) but that would require an intro to stats course (mode median mean at least)

The math on sampling is an absolute nightmare to the point that it doesn't say anything except to the math majors (I got through stats 3 with just memorize the formulae put that number where it goes don't think about it) , but you can illustrate the point with examples and exercises. (dice are really good for that if anyone wants to supplement their collection with teachers aid money....)

Quote:
Well, as we've noted before, there are fundamental differences of opinion here, so I try not to argue it too much to avoid turning FaWtL into a debate on the merits of mathematics.

It's just so weird for me to be on the pointy end of a torch and pitchfork mob....


I’m still stuck on the earlier metric discussion. Been thinking about using a 1 meter square grid for the table top scale. Seems like you would need to add a weapon area requirement. A human fits within a square meter, but swinging a two-handed sword; it’s gonna take more room.


Waterhammer wrote:
I’m still stuck on the earlier metric discussion. Been thinking about using a 1 meter square grid for the table top scale. Seems like you would need to add a weapon area requirement. A human fits within a square meter, but swinging a two-handed sword; it’s gonna take more room.

GURPS does that, except with hexes and yards. A human-sized character fully occupies their hex, and weapon reach does play a significant role because turns are 1 second and movement has serious impact - do I move further closing the distance with spear-wielding enemy, but suffer significant attack penalty. Do I approach slower, letting the enemy attack me before I attack or keep their distance?

Assuming you don't use basic combat rules and skip over all that.


it's a good thing that political discussion can still happen (somewhere not here, clearly).

otherwise, i'd be stuck relying upon the muck and murk of my old mathematics classes in order to have a framework upon which to think critically, based upon your thesis. so thank God that i've thrashed through both sides of the rhetorical component for so long.

the humanities win again. :)


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Fantasy Monster: Electrocrab

It was supposed to be a robot, but ended being a live animal vermin.


Drejk wrote:
Waterhammer wrote:
I’m still stuck on the earlier metric discussion. Been thinking about using a 1 meter square grid for the table top scale. Seems like you would need to add a weapon area requirement. A human fits within a square meter, but swinging a two-handed sword; it’s gonna take more room.

GURPS does that, except with hexes and yards. A human-sized character fully occupies their hex, and weapon reach does play a significant role because turns are 1 second and movement has serious impact - do I move further closing the distance with spear-wielding enemy, but suffer significant attack penalty. Do I approach slower, letting the enemy attack me before I attack or keep their distance?

Assuming you don't use basic combat rules and skip over all that.

Interesting, was it playable, or did everyone just go with the basic rules?

I used 5’ hexes for my outdoors maps in my PBP Kingmaker game. You have to modify, but it’s minor.


I'm just glad I learned math through working because a classroom wasn't helping me. Of course when your teacher is your mom and your classmates are your brothers and you still have 2 cows and a shit load of chickens to feed and water... home schooling sucks.


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I wonder whether I'm old, different, or both.

Global MegaCorporation is now full-swing into "badges". Complete training? Get a badge. Fill out a survey? Get a badge. Attend a conference? Get a badge. And the badges are listed on the Employee page if anyone searches for you.

And somehow my fellow employees take it very, very seriously. If they complete training and their badge doesn't show up, they raise a very public stink to let the powers-that-be know that they need that badge that they "earned".

And my whole thought process is:
(1) The badges are not involved in raises, promotions, nor performance reviews. They're exactly equivalent to giving little kids stickers for doing their homework or brushing their teeth.
(2) The badges are not visible externally, so they're meaningless if you're trying to find a job elsewhere.

So I fundamentally don't give a carp about badges. And apparently that makes me the odd employee out.

But seriously? I'd rather have a dollar than a badge.


Playing on the people's competitiveness and/or their sense of accomplishment?


Speaking of why algebra should be taught...

How could you comprehend basic chemistry otherwise?!

(the post sponsored by the exchange I had with DMCal and his friend on facebook moment ago over meme about being unable to comprehend elementary-grade chemistry...)


Drejk wrote:

Speaking of why algebra should be taught...

How could you comprehend basic chemistry otherwise?!
)

Conversion factors are useful but you still find out what x is at the end.

organic chemistry is so complex you're memorizing things anyway rather than trying to predict from formulaes / guidelines.


NobodysHome wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
...
...

Well, as we've noted before, there are fundamental differences of opinion here, so I try not to argue it too much to avoid turning FaWtL into a debate on the merits of mathematics.

We can at least all agree that bad math instructors are a scourge upon the Earth.

See, we DON'T need math to have functioning brains! There are other ways to learn and do and be, and that's WITHOUT getting into the LIES math starts off pushing on us!


NobodysHome wrote:

I wonder whether I'm old

Yes.

More seriously, if it's proof I was there for the day or the loss of a vacation/sick day, I BETTER get my badge.


(And this is NobodysHome refusing to be baited...)


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NobodysHome wrote:

I wonder whether I'm old, different, or both.

Global MegaCorporation is now full-swing into "badges". Complete training? Get a badge. Fill out a survey? Get a badge. Attend a conference? Get a badge. And the badges are listed on the Employee page if anyone searches for you.

And somehow my fellow employees take it very, very seriously. If they complete training and their badge doesn't show up, they raise a very public stink to let the powers-that-be know that they need that badge that they "earned".

And my whole thought process is:
(1) The badges are not involved in raises, promotions, nor performance reviews. They're exactly equivalent to giving little kids stickers for doing their homework or brushing their teeth.
(2) The badges are not visible externally, so they're meaningless if you're trying to find a job elsewhere.

So I fundamentally don't give a carp about badges. And apparently that makes me the odd employee out.

But seriously? I'd rather have a dollar than a badge.

Dollar Badge,

Dollar Badge,
His badge it is a dollar,
So says every outlaw that he collars,
Evil-doers, he never fails to catch!
Dollar Badge,
Dollar Badge,
He's unbeatable, he surely is the best,
The most rootin', tootin' lawman in the West (toot toot)
Dollar Badge,
Doooolllar Baaadge!!!!


NobodysHome wrote:
(And this is NobodysHome refusing to be baited...)

Oh come now, no baiting here, just observation.


Keeping good records can really teach you something about what's happened in the medical industry in the U.S. in the last 25 years.

I'm doing my annual file cabinet purge and found GothBard's dental records. In 1998 she needed an emergency crown. Our total out-of-pocket cost was $55. Twenty-five years later in 2023 I needed an emergency crown. My total out-of-pocket cost was $2070.

And needless to say, I'm paying hundreds more per year for the dental insurance I have now than the insurance I had in 1998, and it's considered "very good" insurance these days.


There was a significant progress in technology since that time, but definitively probably maybe not warranting ×40 price multiplication...

Hmm... Lets check inflation since that year.


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Random webpage claims that one dollar in 1998 is equivalent to $1.89 in 2023. Still far from it.


an indication that "lawsuit filed" became to insurance companies what "shots fired" is to law enforcement.


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One of today's (to-month's?) Humble Choice's games is... Nobody Saves The World.

We are counting on you. No pressure.


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One of my fencing pals has bought himself a replica of the Buster sword from Final Fantasy. He brought it along yesterday for us all to admire, and one of my other fencing pals, who is a Longsword Expert, managed to do some of his regular routines with it. Given how hugely heavy and unwieldy it is, that's pretty bloody impressive.


Limeylongears wrote:
One of my fencing pals has bought himself a replica of the Buster sword from Final Fantasy. He brought it along yesterday for us all to admire, and one of my other fencing pals, who is a Longsword Expert, managed to do some of his regular routines with it. Given how hugely heavy and unwieldy it is, that's pretty bloody impressive.

Size-related cumbersomeness aside, how heavy that thing is?


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He said around nine kilos. A standard two-handed sword tops out at around 3-4kg.


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I know I've said before that we've given up on food delivery services, but when "new" ones come along we give them a chance. We know several friends who only made it through COVID by getting food delivery and Uber/Lyft gigs, so we're not opposed to the idea in general.

But last night Uber Eats convinced me that I'm done ever getting food delivered by anyone other than the restaurant itself. (Our local pizza joint has a fantastic delivery guy who knows us and always asks how the kids are doing, how life is in general, and so forth. Nice guy. The driver for the local taqueria drives us crazy because we say, "Please knock on our door" and they don't and just dump the food on the porch, but we've gotten used to it so we anticipate them, and they always deliver.)

We placed a sizeable sushi order. As always, I provided the driver with a hefty tip because I know gig work doesn't pay squat. An hour later I checked on the status of my order and it said "Delivered". The photo was a blurry shot from the middle of the street about two houses down; you couldn't recognize anything. I checked my phone and the guy had called 3 times in the span of 2 minutes, not gotten an answer, and left.

GothBard put it really well: If you get to a place with a paid food order and you can 100% confirm the address, you never leave with the food. You can knock on the door. You can dump it on the porch, take a picture, and leave. If there's a dog, you can leave it outside the front gate, take a picture, and leave. But you can't leave with the food.

So I contacted Uber Eats to complain. They said, "No refunds." It took about 10 minutes for me to relieve them of this notion. Then we ordered the food ourselves using *gasp* an old-school "phone in and pick it up" technique.

But in general, it's the worst service I've seen yet. It wasn't one or two missing items, it was, "I showed up, I called a couple of times, and I left. Without ever approaching the property," followed up by, "No refunds."

So I'm done with food delivery services permanently. We have 4 drivers and 2 cars. If we can't find someone capable of going and getting the food, we won't bother.


NobodysHome wrote:

I know I've said before that we've given up on food delivery services, but when "new" ones come along we give them a chance. We know several friends who only made it through COVID by getting food delivery and Uber/Lyft gigs, so we're not opposed to the idea in general.

But last night Uber Eats convinced me that I'm done ever getting food delivered by anyone other than the restaurant itself. (Our local pizza joint has a fantastic delivery guy who knows us and always asks how the kids are doing, how life is in general, and so forth. Nice guy. The driver for the local taqueria drives us crazy because we say, "Please knock on our door" and they don't and just dump the food on the porch, but we've gotten used to it so we anticipate them, and they always deliver.)

We placed a sizeable sushi order. As always, I provided the driver with a hefty tip because I know gig work doesn't pay squat. An hour later I checked on the status of my order and it said "Delivered". The photo was a blurry shot from the middle of the street about two houses down; you couldn't recognize anything. I checked my phone and the guy had called 3 times in the span of 2 minutes, not gotten an answer, and left.

GothBard put it really well: If you get to a place with a paid food order and you can 100% confirm the address, you never leave with the food. You can knock on the door. You can dump it on the porch, take a picture, and leave. If there's a dog, you can leave it outside the front gate, take a picture, and leave. But you can't leave with the food.

So I contacted Uber Eats to complain. They said, "No refunds." It took about 10 minutes for me to relieve them of this notion. Then we ordered the food ourselves using *gasp* an old-school "phone in and pick it up" technique.

But in general, it's the worst service I've seen yet. It wasn't one or two missing items, it was, "I showed up, I called a couple of times, and I left. Without ever approaching the property," followed up by, "No refunds."

So I'm done with...

Did they actually call you? Or did they spoof the call? Why didn't you hear the phone ring?


Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
...
Did they actually call you? Or did they spoof the call? Why didn't you hear the phone ring?

The usual. I gave them my land line number but they got my cell phone number off my Google account and called it instead, and it's typically on Do Not Disturb unless I know someone will be calling on it. So yes, the call record shows attempted calls at 6:36, 6:37, and 6:38. Then they reported that they waited 5 minutes and I didn't come out so they left.

But yes, I have proof they called. But we've never had a deliveryperson unwilling to approach the property before. I understand the very political racial undertones in some areas, but this isn't one of those areas, and if you're unwilling to even get out of your car then why are you a deliveryperson?

EDIT: And I've expressed frustration about this before. Because Berkeley, our cell phone signal is tenuous at best. Because bad design, our phones preferentially choose the cell phone signal (no matter how bad) over WiFi calling, So unless we remember to turn off cellular data on our calls, it's pretty much impossible to have a conversation on our cell phones at our house. People call GothBard fairly frequently (every week or so), and typically she has to either leave the studio to the back yard (on good days) or tell them to call back on the land line (on bad ones). And of course if we turn off cellular data we forget to turn it back on when we go out. Hence, "Please don't call our cell phones, please call our land line," as a note on every single service we subscribe to. And 90% of them ignore this request.


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One of our delivery drivers knew us so well she came buy to borrow gas money to leave town in a hurry. Haven't seen them since...


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
One of our delivery drivers knew us so well she came buy to borrow gas money to leave town in a hurry. Haven't seen them since...

That's funny. I had a former student do that. He was a really nice guy, he knew where I lived, he stopped by, borrowed $40, and vanished, even from school.


On the one hand, Door Dash's infamous $40,000 in damage to Shiro's Alfa Romeo remains the pinnacle of monetary losses due to delivery company incompetence (the driver wasn't insured. Fortunately, Shiro was), Uber Eats is winning the "sheer chutpah" award.

(1) Their delivery policy is apparently, "If the driver picks up the food, takes a picture of your house, and calls twice at least 5 minutes apart, then they get to keep the food and you pay for it."

I didn't even get into it with them on that one (exploitable much?). I pointed out that the two calls initiated by their driver were ONE minute apart, not 5, at which point they agreed to refund my purchase.

(2) After refunding my money, they re-charged the driver tip. So apparently they don't mind losing their money for the driver making off with the food, but the driver needs to be paid. Er... for stealing the food?

Perhaps their robotext was written by an AI or some other nonsense, but when your stated policy is, "If the driver can figure out a way to prevent you from answering the phone, then they get dinner on you and you still need to tip them," I'm pretty much done doing business with you.


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I can order a mediocre pizza, then drive down and pick it up myself. Place is also a bar and grill, so I could also go down, order my pizza and sit at the bar and get blotto while they cook it.


NobodysHome wrote:

On the one hand, Door Dash's infamous $40,000 in damage to Shiro's Alfa Romeo remains the pinnacle of monetary losses due to delivery company incompetence (the driver wasn't insured. Fortunately, Shiro was), Uber Eats is winning the "sheer chutpah" award.

(1) Their delivery policy is apparently, "If the driver picks up the food, takes a picture of your house, and calls twice at least 5 minutes apart, then they get to keep the food and you pay for it."

I didn't even get into it with them on that one (exploitable much?). I pointed out that the two calls initiated by their driver were ONE minute apart, not 5, at which point they agreed to refund my purchase.

(2) After refunding my money, they re-charged the driver tip. So apparently they don't mind losing their money for the driver making off with the food, but the driver needs to be paid. Er... for stealing the food?

Perhaps their robotext was written by an AI or some other nonsense, but when your stated policy is, "If the driver can figure out a way to prevent you from answering the phone, then they get dinner on you and you still need to tip them," I'm pretty much done doing business with you.

...they rammed the man's car delivering food?


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Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

On the one hand, Door Dash's infamous $40,000 in damage to Shiro's Alfa Romeo remains the pinnacle of monetary losses due to delivery company incompetence (the driver wasn't insured. Fortunately, Shiro was), Uber Eats is winning the "sheer chutpah" award.

(1) Their delivery policy is apparently, "If the driver picks up the food, takes a picture of your house, and calls twice at least 5 minutes apart, then they get to keep the food and you pay for it."

I didn't even get into it with them on that one (exploitable much?). I pointed out that the two calls initiated by their driver were ONE minute apart, not 5, at which point they agreed to refund my purchase.

(2) After refunding my money, they re-charged the driver tip. So apparently they don't mind losing their money for the driver making off with the food, but the driver needs to be paid. Er... for stealing the food?

Perhaps their robotext was written by an AI or some other nonsense, but when your stated policy is, "If the driver can figure out a way to prevent you from answering the phone, then they get dinner on you and you still need to tip them," I'm pretty much done doing business with you.

...they rammed the man's car delivering food?

I thought I posted about this before. Yeah, Shiro bought a brand new Alfa Romeo and was extremely proud of it. Then he ordered dinner from Door Dash and some 16-year-old kid with a brand-new license and no insurance tried to drop off the food and ran right into the side of the Alfa, absolutely ruining the door and the front fender. And, being an Alfa, the repair bill was $40,000. Door Dash played the, "Our drivers are independent contractors and we assume no responsibility for them," card, and it held up. So Shiro had the choice of suing a kid for $40k or having his insurance pay for it. He had his insurance fix it, then sold the Alfa because it was no longer worth the stress.

A truly depressing Shiro moment.


NobodysHome wrote:

On the one hand, Door Dash's infamous $40,000 in damage to Shiro's Alfa Romeo remains the pinnacle of monetary losses due to delivery company incompetence (the driver wasn't insured. Fortunately, Shiro was), Uber Eats is winning the "sheer chutpah" award.

(1) Their delivery policy is apparently, "If the driver picks up the food, takes a picture of your house, and calls twice at least 5 minutes apart, then they get to keep the food and you pay for it."

I didn't even get into it with them on that one (exploitable much?). I pointed out that the two calls initiated by their driver were ONE minute apart, not 5, at which point they agreed to refund my purchase.

I am surprised that you haven't pointed out that the driver called different number. For a recap if I understood correctly: you gave them landline number, they checked your mobile number without your consent for changing the method of communication, and decided to call on that number instead of the one provided and listed in the order? The fact that it happened to be yours is irrelevant. That's a deliberate action.


Drejk wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

On the one hand, Door Dash's infamous $40,000 in damage to Shiro's Alfa Romeo remains the pinnacle of monetary losses due to delivery company incompetence (the driver wasn't insured. Fortunately, Shiro was), Uber Eats is winning the "sheer chutpah" award.

(1) Their delivery policy is apparently, "If the driver picks up the food, takes a picture of your house, and calls twice at least 5 minutes apart, then they get to keep the food and you pay for it."

I didn't even get into it with them on that one (exploitable much?). I pointed out that the two calls initiated by their driver were ONE minute apart, not 5, at which point they agreed to refund my purchase.

I am surprised that you haven't pointed out that the driver called different number. For a recap if I understood correctly: you gave them landline number, they checked your mobile number without your consent for changing the method of communication, and decided to call on that number instead of the one provided and listed in the order? The fact that it happened to be yours is irrelevant. That's a deliberate action.

Not quite correct. In order to sign up for Uber Eats, you must provide a cell phone number. So that was the number with which I registered. Then I added my land line and said, "Please use this number to contact me."

So in order to use the correct phone number they have to look at my profile and see the note, which they're supposed to do because the notes might include special delivery instructions. But, as we've seen from a multitude of experience, they never actually do.

So I'm not going to try to use "calling the wrong number" as an excuse. I feel pretty solid on the whole, "The driver does not need to get out of their car before giving up on you," being horsepuckey.


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Yup, you mentioned the Alfa Romeo incident, though the FAWTL time is a wibbly-wobbly ball of... Something. And it got worse once those 90 days of quarantine last three four years—I can't even try to recall if it was this year, last year, or three years ago...


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That might've been in The Before Times.

$40k repair...I'm going to guess an Alfa 8C, and my second guess is a Guilia Quadrifoglio.


Vanykrye wrote:

That might've been in The Before Times.

$40k repair...I'm going to guess an Alfa 8C, and my second guess is a Guilia Quadrifoglio.

No idea. I'm not a car guy. But from the pictures and what I know he paid for it new, I'm thinking a 4C.


NobodysHome wrote:
Drejk wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

On the one hand, Door Dash's infamous $40,000 in damage to Shiro's Alfa Romeo remains the pinnacle of monetary losses due to delivery company incompetence (the driver wasn't insured. Fortunately, Shiro was), Uber Eats is winning the "sheer chutpah" award.

(1) Their delivery policy is apparently, "If the driver picks up the food, takes a picture of your house, and calls twice at least 5 minutes apart, then they get to keep the food and you pay for it."

I didn't even get into it with them on that one (exploitable much?). I pointed out that the two calls initiated by their driver were ONE minute apart, not 5, at which point they agreed to refund my purchase.

I am surprised that you haven't pointed out that the driver called different number. For a recap if I understood correctly: you gave them landline number, they checked your mobile number without your consent for changing the method of communication, and decided to call on that number instead of the one provided and listed in the order? The fact that it happened to be yours is irrelevant. That's a deliberate action.

Not quite correct. In order to sign up for Uber Eats, you must provide a cell phone number. So that was the number with which I registered. Then I added my land line and said, "Please use this number to contact me."

So in order to use the correct phone number they have to look at my profile and see the note, which they're supposed to do because the notes might include special delivery instructions. But, as we've seen from a multitude of experience, they never actually do.

So I'm not going to try to use "calling the wrong number" as an excuse. I feel pretty solid on the whole, "The driver does not need to get out of their car before giving up on you," being horsepuckey.

Ah, ok. That definitely changes a lot, though, downgrading it from outright malice to negligence/laziness.


NobodysHome wrote:
Vanykrye wrote:

That might've been in The Before Times.

$40k repair...I'm going to guess an Alfa 8C, and my second guess is a Guilia Quadrifoglio.

No idea. I'm not a car guy. But from the pictures and what I know he paid for it new, I'm thinking a 4C.

Yes, that's what I pictured in my head when I typed 8C. The 8C was a totally different Alfa car.


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If you're working a low wage job like delivery or the kitchen, they are not paying enough for your brain to be at work.


NobodysHome wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

On the one hand, Door Dash's infamous $40,000 in damage to Shiro's Alfa Romeo remains the pinnacle of monetary losses due to delivery company incompetence (the driver wasn't insured. Fortunately, Shiro was), Uber Eats is winning the "sheer chutpah" award.

(1) Their delivery policy is apparently, "If the driver picks up the food, takes a picture of your house, and calls twice at least 5 minutes apart, then they get to keep the food and you pay for it."

I didn't even get into it with them on that one (exploitable much?). I pointed out that the two calls initiated by their driver were ONE minute apart, not 5, at which point they agreed to refund my purchase.

(2) After refunding my money, they re-charged the driver tip. So apparently they don't mind losing their money for the driver making off with the food, but the driver needs to be paid. Er... for stealing the food?

Perhaps their robotext was written by an AI or some other nonsense, but when your stated policy is, "If the driver can figure out a way to prevent you from answering the phone, then they get dinner on you and you still need to tip them," I'm pretty much done doing business with you.

...they rammed the man's car delivering food?

I thought I posted about this before. Yeah, Shiro bought a brand new Alfa Romeo and was extremely proud of it. Then he ordered dinner from Door Dash and some 16-year-old kid with a brand-new license and no insurance tried to drop off the food and ran right into the side of the Alfa, absolutely ruining the door and the front fender. And, being an Alfa, the repair bill was $40,000. Door Dash played the, "Our drivers are independent contractors and we assume no responsibility for them," card, and it held up. So Shiro had the choice of suing a kid for $40k or having his insurance pay for it. He had his insurance fix it, then sold the Alfa because it was no longer worth the stress.

A truly depressing Shiro moment.

I vaguely remember.

That is f!&!ed up.

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