I don't want to build an entirely min-maxed character, but I'm also worried about ending up with the worst of both worlds, hence I turn to the internet for advice.
What I'm thinking of is an Aasimar (Emberkin) paladin of Ragathiel with a few levels in Sorcerer (Elemental/Primal Fire) 25 point buy, starting level 5. The DM said I could pick any variant ability that didn't give a +2 stat bump, so I went with natural flight (20', poor), because flying is awesome. Any first party material is allowed, but no Psionics/Path of war, 3rd party is on a case-by case basis.
What I want is a dex-based melee Paladin with the ability to throw a Fireball (eventually) and all the Charisma.
My current build has
Stats: STR 8/DEX 16/CON 14/INT 10+2/WIS 9/CHA 17+2 (+1 from level up)
Class: Paladin (Favoured) 4/Sorcerer 1 (I'm thinking of an eventual 14/6 build maybe? - presuming I get that far)
Archetypes: Oath of Vengeance or Oath against Fiends/Elemental or Primal (Fire)
Traits: Magical Knack (Sorcerer - +2 to caster level, up to hit dice)
Seeker (+1 to perception, class skill)
I'm also considering taking Slippery (+1 to stealth, class skill) and the Headstrong drawback(if you don't stop/correct an action that contradicts your alignment, you are shaken for 1 hour - seems very paladin) - the DM said either 2 traits, or 3 traits+1 drawback.
Skills: Diplomacy 1 (+9), Fly 1 (+7), Heal 4 (+6), Knowledge/Religion 3 (+7), Knowledge/Planes 1 (+7), Perception 4 (+7), Use Magic Device 1 (+9)
I might pick up some additional skill points for level up in Paladin, to go towards Stealth/UMD/Perception/Sense Motive.
Feats: The feats I'll want to have by level 20 are
-Weapon Finesse (no brainer) (1)
-Angel Blood (5/6)
-Angel Wings (Because Flying!!)(6/7)
-Greater Mercy (2)
-Ultimate Mercy (5/6/7)
-Extra Lay On Hands (3)
-Improved Critical/Rapier (With Bless Weapon, I get a 20% crit chance against evil monsters)(4 - 7th level is the earliest I can get this, assuming I take no more than 2 sorcerer levels)
-Combat Casting
-Spell Penetration?
-Unsanctioned Knowledge?
-Agile Manoeuvres?
-Some Metamagic?
-Arcane Armour Training?
-Weapon Focus/Rapier? (Doesn't really seem worth it...)
Have I missed anything really important? Paladins don't exactly get a lot of Feats, and mine are spread pretty thin already. Also, I'm not sure what order I want these feats in. I'm thinking the order I numbered, but I'm not sure...
For Spells, I intend to focus my sorcerer primarily on Fire spells, and some Buffers I don't get from my Paladin List; Unsanctioned Knowledge is a potential feat for the same reason - it's pretty trivial for me to drop Wisdom from 9 to 8, and bump Intelligence to 13 (since Emberkin get a +2 bonus to it).
For Armour, I'm thinking things like Bracers of Armour and a Haramaki/Silken Ceremonial Armour (can I add a Haramaki to Silken Armour like I could an armoured quilt?) This takes advantage of my Dex, and doesn't require me to spend my precious feats on Arcane Armour Training, but on the other hand, a Mithral Shirt is pretty excellent, and it's pretty unlikely I'm going to boost my Dex by much more than +6...
For Weapons, Rapier seems the obvious choice, because of the great Crit range, and it's compatibility with Weapon Finesse (I could also go with Kukri, but I like Rapiers better) I guess I could also use a feat on 2-weapon fighting, but I think my BAB will suffer enough from multiclassing.
In terms of level order, I'm thinking Sorcerer 1, Paladin 5, Sorcerer 1, Paladin 5, Sorcerer 4, Paladin 4 (but really, I have no idea).
Queries - Is anything I've laid out a really bad idea?
- Are there any obvious choices I've missed that can boost my multiclass synergy, or my ability to fly?
- Is taking 6 levels in sorcerer too many? I'm quite attached to Fireball, but it seems like without Metamagic and stuff, it would only be good for thinning out minions once I got to a high enough level to get it. How many levels should I take in Sorcerer, considering that I want to get the Aura of Faith from Paladin 14? (And should I take Unsanctioned Knowledge as well/instead?)
- Does the order in which I plan to use my level-up have any obvious failings
- What should I use my level-up bonuses on?
- If I'm taking Angel Wings anyway, should I pick a different Variant Ability (and are there any in particular I should look at)?
- Could this character pull its weight compared to a reasonable single-classed character?
Thank you very kindly in advance for any advice/assistance. :)
Maybe I've missed something, but are you getting DEX-to-damage from anywhere? Or are you just accepting the strength penalty on all your damage rolls?
If not, slashing/fencing grace would be an important add or perhaps a 1 level dip in Swashbuckler.
A flame oracle would be easier, you would get the fireball, armor proficiency, full spellcaster, medium bab, some cleric spells are on the paladin list. On top of it, you could play a Samsaran, take mystic past life, add the paladin spells that you want to your oracle spell list, like litany of righteousness, Holy Sword etc...You'll have no trouble with proficiency.
Ratpigeon wrote: I don't want to build an entirely min-maxed character, but I'm also worried about ending up with the worst of both worlds, hence I turn to the internet for advice. Yes, you are at the worst of both worlds - for combat.
You don't have a weapon nor a spell-caster chassis built. My suggestion is that you have a plan to make one of these work first and then add a smidgeon of the other.
Right now, your character would want to avoid every combat and solve everything out of combat. Pending the GM's world, that might work.
Thanks :) I didn't know that feat existed - and it's perfect for me :)
Soooo the feats I need are
Weapon finesse,
Weapon focus/rapier
Fencing grace (finesse+focus)
Improved critical/rapier (lv 7)
Angel blood
Angel wings (lv10)
Extra lay on hands
Greater mercy
Ultimate mercy
Hmm... Can I take adopted (human) to get Adoptive Parentage (Tengu) and get weapon focus (rapier) free? She was going to be raised in a temple of ragathiel in magrimar (hence adopted, human), but since she can fly, and humans can't, it wouldn't be unreasonable that if there was a good-aligned tengu (who was high enough level to fly as per tengu wings) took a significant hand in her training (hence Adoptive Parentage, tengu)... Also it's interesting from an rp point of view.....
Pirahna Strike
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When wielding a light weapon, you can choose to take a -1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (-50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and for every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by -1 and the bonus on damage rolls increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before the attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage. This feat cannot be used in conjunction with the Power Attack feat.
Source Book:
Pathfinder Companion: Sargava, the Lost Colony. Copyright 2010, Paizo Publishing, LLC; Author: JD Wiker.
Thanks Eltacoliber :) I'd prefer to be a paladin than an Oracle, but a 3 level dip into branded flame oracle is so very very perfect (especially since I'd already given her the fluff for branded, almost exactly, as part of a since-abandoned burnished skin trait) :D I even get flaming sphere! Although I might still go for a dex fighter, just for personal preference ..
Bye bye sorcadin (losing fly and umd will hurt though)...
Rory, also thanks, hopefully a 3 level dip into oracle, and access to as much armour as I want will make it a more cohesive build :)
Thanks again Rory but I think fencing grace is better?- add dex bonus to damage, for no negative (and since I can get the weapon focus prerequisite with the adopted trait, it's not any more expensive :))
Ratpigeon wrote: Thanks again Rory but I think fencing grace is better?- add dex bonus to damage, for no negative (and since I can get the weapon focus prerequisite with the adopted trait, it's not any more expensive :)) Just to avoid any confusion:
Piranha Strike is to DEX-based combatants what Power Attack is to STR-based ones.
Would allow you do more reliable damage once your BAB can afford the sacrifice of to-hit.
Power attack is a no-brainer for almost every STR-based melee build and this is the same thing for you. If you can find the room to invest the feat, it's definitely worth it.
It will net you much more damage than improved critical for example, which is an effect that you can replicate with the Keen weapon property anyway. Never spend a feat when you can spend gold instead.
Ratpigeon wrote: Hmm... Can I take adopted (human) to get Adoptive Parentage (Tengu) and get weapon focus (rapier) free? She was going to be raised in a temple of ragathiel in magrimar (hence adopted, human), but since she can fly, and humans can't, it wouldn't be unreasonable that if there was a good-aligned tengu (who was high enough level to fly as per tengu wings) took a significant hand in her training (hence Adoptive Parentage, tengu)... Also it's interesting from an rp point of view..... No you can't do this. Adopted give you a "Race Trait" like this
Adoptive Parentage is a "Racial Trait" which are abilities based off of race.
So you can't take adopted to get free weapon focus.
Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I think the Paladin / Flame Oracle is likely to be a stronger build than anything Paladin / Sorcerer.
That said, have you considered changing it to Pal 3 / Sorc 2 and take a Red, Brass or Gold Dragon bloodline? This would allow you to qualify for Dragon Disciple. That would allow you to eventually get to the point of casting Fireball (6 levels of Dragon Disciple) without totally destroying your ability to do combat.
Pal 3 / Sorc 2 / DD 6 would give you the ability to cast as a 6th level Sorc with caster level of 8, BAB 3+1+4 = 8, plus other bonuses.
The thing it doesn't do well is work as a Dex build.
There might be a different PrC that gives 3/4 BAB or better and advances spell casting level.
ALWAYS take the higher HP class first.
If you're considering Oath of Vengeance, take 4 levels of Paladin to start (i.e. 4 of your 5 levels should be Paladin)
The Oracle is MUCH better for you than Sorcerer. However, I don't see Flaming Sphere on their list. You DO get Fireball and Burning Hands though.
With that low Dex, just wear Mithral Breastplate. You won't see any loss of available Dex until you add +6, and even then it's still better than Mithral Chain Shirt.
Fencing Grace is absolutely the way to go.
Piranha Strike only works with light weapons. Of course, if you can use an Effortless Lace, that may solve your problem.
If you DO decide to use an Effortless Lace, you could choose from any 1-handed slashing weapon as well, just take Slashing Grace instead of Fencing Grace.
Damn, sorry, no - it's the Blackened curse that gets Flaming Sphere, not Branded :/
Also... Effortless Lace looks awesome:D
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ratpigeon wrote:
Ultimate mercy
Hmm... Can I take adopted (human) to get Adoptive Parentage (Tengu)
That's not how Adopted works.
Thanks for all the help guys :) I think I've got it pretty much sorted now, just one question left - my Magical Knack, should it be for Oracle (with a 2 level dip, this gives me 4d4 on my Burning Hands mystery spell, which is pretty good for crowd control against hordes of minions) or for Paladin (to bump up my durations and such)?
I'm currently leaning towards Oracle, so that my dip will have slightly more staying power in terms of spells staying useful.
I am going to suggest Mithrasl Kiko as your armor of choice. Medium with 0 acp...
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