We have both of those. They are the dagger and the star knife. Dagger is both melee and you can throw it just as well as a shuriken (or as badly depending on how you view 10ft). The star knife is literally a giant shuriken. Have you seen the image of the shadow dancer with one?
If the ninja gets giant shuriken and illusion powers, they should also get brightly-colored, sparkly outfits and headbands that say ninja on them. And also be Richard Harrison.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
BEGIN RANT
I would actually like the Ninja if it were not for "Ninja Fanboys".
I mean do they even read the rules?
The rules really don't need an extra set of weapons just for Ninja/Samurai.
I mean use a Bastard Sword an call it a Katanna, use a dagger and call it a kunai, etc.
But no all the "Ninja Fanboy's" require seperate stats and special powers for the Ninja. Sorry to burst your bubble but a ninja is just a rogue no matter how much you jazz it up.
As a sidenote my favorite is when a "Ninja Fanboy" whants the Ninja to be realistic to a real Ninja(wants Ninja weapons, culture, etc.) then wants over the top super powers. Since we all know that a Ninja could turn invisible for extended periods of time and not let anything detect them.
End RANT
the only way any of this would make any sense would be taht if said ninja could go around and wear alomst nothing......
not even their skin
undead ninjas and you though t the licving ones were bad
As humorous as this post was an attempt at...
An undead Ninja WOULD be quite the terror for PCs.
Take all those vampire rogues, and turn them into Ninjas... devastating potential there.
Genjutsu: reality techniques - illusions. By using Ki to screw with an opponent's five senses, a ninja can cause pain, kill, make them see something that isn't there, make something that is there disappear.
*points to sorceror*
extensive magical focus would make you... a magic user. Make a stealthy ninja like sorceror.
has anybody made a ninja arcane dude/arcane trickter yet?
Ninja/sorcerer with a decent charisma? sounds promising. You would have at least 1 ninja trick and 2nd level spells. Big payoff with Tricky Spells. Suddenly you can use your spells without giving away the fact that you are casting a spell (and 4th level spells at that point, mind you). Only problem is being 3 levels behind on the caster levels. Invisible thief is almost like invisible blades except that it does not cost Ki, but by that time you can already cast greater invisibility and without any somatic or verbal components. Still, all in all, an interesting route to take for the spellcaster ninja.
Kunai and windmill shuriken are in 3.5 i took a version and adapted it to this game if you would like the info i can post my fixed versions here
BEGIN RANT
I would actually like the Ninja if it were not for "Ninja Fanboys".
I mean do they even read the rules?
The rules really don't need an extra set of weapons just for Ninja/Samurai.
I mean use a Bastard Sword an call it a Katanna, use a dagger and call it a kunai, etc.
But no all the "Ninja Fanboy's" require seperate stats and special powers for the Ninja. Sorry to burst your bubble but a ninja is just a rogue no matter how much you jazz it up.
As a sidenote my favorite is when a "Ninja Fanboy" whants the Ninja to be realistic to a real Ninja(wants Ninja weapons, culture, etc.) then wants over the top super powers. Since we all know that a Ninja could turn invisible for extended periods of time and not let anything detect them.
End RANT
1ST i am a ninja fan boy HOWEVER i do read rules and imo i think the ninja should have things that people have never seen b4 ie: windmill shuriken and Kunai i came up with are balanced and fair like the windmill can go 100 ft takes a full round action to throw and every enemy they hit after the first the move it counts as 10 ft also it does 1d6 and it only hits enemys in its arc and it returns to you but unless u start out with it u have to make it with craft dc 25 and the kunai are 20 ft range and for ever 2 points over 10 you have in str they go 10 more ft do 1d6 and if they do over 5 damage they stick in the target if that happens roll 1d6 to see where it sticks if u roll a 6 it falls out other wise if its in a limb they take 1d2 if they use that limb if its pulled out it they gain 1 bleed a turn dc15 heal check to stop also can only be crafted dc 20
NOTE: i have not finished the windmill shuriken yet
1ST i am a ninja fan boy HOWEVER i do read rules and imo i think the ninja should have things that people have never seen b4 ie: windmill shuriken and Kunai i came up with are balanced and fair like the windmill can go 100 ft takes a full round action to throw and every enemy they hit after the first the move it counts as 10 ft also it does 1d6 and it only hits enemys in its arc and it returns to you but unless u start out with it u have to make it with craft dc 25 and the kunai are 20 ft range and for ever 2 points over 10 you have in str they go 10 more ft do 1d6 and if they do over 5 damage they stick in the target if that happens roll 1d6 to see where it sticks if u roll a 6 it falls out other wise if its in a limb they take 1d2 if they use that limb if its pulled out it they gain 1 bleed a turn dc15 heal check to stop also can only be crafted dc 20NOTE: i have not finished the windmill shuriken yet
How are the weapons you just described not significantly better than any fighter weapon?
the spiked chain used to have a range of interchangeable to 10 ft and you think 20 is no big deal?
Not to detract from the flame war, but some mechanical bonus for ninjas when using shuriken would actually be nice. Suriken flurry is awesome, but it's a full round action. As it stands, Ninjas are actually statistically more effective spending their full-round attack throwing hatchets than Shuriken, and that's just not right.
An ability that allows them to throw two as a standard would be nice, or that grants spring attack only when throwing shuriken, so they can run-and-gun would go a long ways toward making the ninja's signature weapon more viable.
Not to detract from the flame war, but some mechanical bonus for ninjas when using shuriken would actually be nice. Suriken flurry is awesome, but it's a full round action. As it stands, Ninjas are actually statistically more effective spending their full-round attack throwing hatchets than Shuriken, and that's just not right.
An ability that allows them to throw two as a standard would be nice, or that grants spring attack only when throwing shuriken, so they can run-and-gun would go a long ways toward making the ninja's signature weapon more viable.
how is this not mechanically better than any ranged fighter or monk?
1ST i am a ninja fan boy HOWEVER i do read rules and imo i think the ninja should have things that people have never seen b4 ie: windmill shuriken and Kunai i came up with are balanced and fair like the windmill can go 100 ft takes a full round action to throw and every enemy they hit after the first the move it counts as 10 ft also it does 1d6 and it only hits enemys in its arc and it returns to you but unless u start out with it u have to make it with craft dc 25 and the kunai are 20 ft range and for ever 2 points over 10 you have in str they go 10 more ft do 1d6 and if they do over 5 damage they stick in the target if that happens roll 1d6 to see where it sticks if u roll a 6 it falls out other wise if its in a limb they take 1d2 if they use that limb if its pulled out it they gain 1 bleed a turn dc15 heal check to stop also can only be crafted dc 20NOTE: i have not finished the windmill shuriken yet
What you suggest is so much rules bloat my mind is blown.
"If this then this but then this results in this with this and the thing in the thing." Is what I just read. That is unplayable, also vastly superior to a dagger.
In short... dear god no.
Kunai: See Dagger, 20 ft. throw range, 1d3 damage.
Giant/Windmill Shuriken: 1d8, can only hold 1 at a given time, 30 ft range.
That so hard?
Honestly the only ninja weapon that needs to be added is the Kusari-gama, since ya know, it's the weapon the iconic is using. The problem with this is that the kusari-gama in 3.5 was borderline as good as the spiked chain was, in short, kind of broken.
yes your right every one should have seen EVERY weapon and every trick
in there book about what they can do and the fact that you have to CRAFT
the items and u cant buy them makes it more balanced but i guess you guys
did not read that far into it and i dumb the weapons down from D&D 3.5
I like the ninjas that run around with a few 4 foot shuriken strapped to their backs.
Sure, if you were in a game I DMed I'd let you have them… But you would have to deal while all the problems they'd cause, such as lots of city guards being far too interested in you and your party for one.
i came up with are balanced and fair like the windmill can go 100 ft takes a full round action to throw and every enemy they hit after the first the move it counts as 10 ft also it does 1d6 and it only hits enemys in its arc and it returns to you
Even if you're not finished with that… How is it remotely close to "balanced and fair"?
i am still still working on the Windmill Shuriken the kunai could be 1d4 i will admit tho you have 2 have high str to get the extra 10 ft on it and again all of the weapons are craft only but the whole idea with the windmill Shuriken is that it returns back so if u attack some one 60 ft away your going to have 2 go get it so its a one shot and it takes a full round to even use it against one enemy (with it in hand)
How does putting a str requirement and making a player dump a few skill points into crafting it balance a weapon that hits multiple targets and returns to to the player so they can keep on spamming attacks with it?
How does putting a str requirement and making a player dump a few skill points into crafting it balance a weapon that hits multiple targets and returns to to the player so they can keep on spamming attacks with it?
here this is the FULL text
kunai 20 gp 1d4 1 lbs
A kunai is a piercing weapon favored mainly by ninja. You get a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a kunai on your body. This is added to the list of weapons the ninja is already proficient with. A kunai is a melee weapon but may be thrown. A kunai may be thrown at a length of 20ft. This is increased by 10 feet for every two points of Strength over 10 the user has.
Special: A kunai is typically left in the victim after an attack so it will do continuous damage depending on the circumstances. If the kunai hits for piercing damage and takes 5 HP off you roll 1d6 to decide where it hit On a roll of 1 on a 1d6 it will be the left arm, 2 the right arm, 3 the left leg, 4 the right leg, 5 the chest, 6 the neck (it will fall out with any hit to the neck unless fatal). If the kunai is left in and has hit the arm or leg the person will take 1d2 of damage every time that limb is used. Any other spot will do no additional damage. If it is taken out, the kunai will do 1 damage every round because of bleeding unless healed or covered.
this is a exotic weapon so the proficiency must be taken
we got a little twisted the kunai is the one that adds range and the Windmill Shuriken is the one that 100ft range tho i have been thinking to lower the range to 50ft and keeping the penalty of it taking 10 ft for every target after the first also the targets must be in the natural arc of the weapon as it returns to you its not like a yo-yo or a bouncy ball and can go every were
Your "Windmill Shuriken" hit multiple targets and return to the player. How is it balanced?
Yes, my last posts were a mistake. I was skimming your post and didn't see you change subjects. I'm only interested in the shuriken.
How does putting a str requirement and making a player dump a few skill points into crafting it balance a weapon that hits multiple targets and returns to to the player so they can keep on spamming attacks with it?here this is the FULL text
kunai 20 gp 1d4 1 lbs
A kunai is a piercing weapon favored mainly by ninja. You get a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a kunai on your body. This is added to the list of weapons the ninja is already proficient with. A kunai is a melee weapon but may be thrown. A kunai may be thrown at a length of 20ft. This is increased by 10 feet for every two points of Strength over 10 the user has.Special: A kunai is typically left in the victim after an attack so it will do continuous damage depending on the circumstances. If the kunai hits for piercing damage and takes 5 HP off you roll 1d6 to decide where it hit On a roll of 1 on a 1d6 it will be the left arm, 2 the right arm, 3 the left leg, 4 the right leg, 5 the chest, 6 the neck (it will fall out with any hit to the neck unless fatal). If the kunai is left in and has hit the arm or leg the person will take 1d2 of damage every time that limb is used. Any other spot will do no additional damage. If it is taken out, the kunai will do 1 damage every round because of bleeding unless healed or covered.
this is a exotic weapon so the proficiency must be taken
How can you possibly think this isn't awful?
It's a wall of text and clearly superior to a dagger. But wait, "It has EWP! EWPs are supposed to be better!" Ok, true, but Ninjas get it free. Congratulations, you just gave Ninjas a nice thing, and Rogues are still stuck with Daggers.
Your "location" damage is also even worse than the way its handled in Dark Heresy, as much as I love that system, but location damage is a pain and just slows down gameplay.
um no i just think its funny when some one gets so angry over a game that's all and as far as ninjas being better no i just think that they should have things that have not been seen all to often and dont worry i am here to actually speak to people and get your opinions I just thought u looked like you were typing angry and that's funny to me as no one should get angry over a game if you were not angry i apologizeIf you want to give Ninjas a kunai it's called a Dagger.
Know how back in 3.5 a Katana was a "masterwork bastard sword"? Statswise it was just that, a masterwork bastard sword, but using it what was it? It was the flavor of course, a katana. Hell, in Pathfinder Katanas aren't even automatically masterwork, they are just bastard swords.
Same goes with your precious kunai. It is a dagger. Your Ninja wants to throw some kunais? You throw daggers and say "My Ninja jumps down the ledge and throws a kunai at the target".
It is all in the flavor.
yes tho if you are asking the the Aldori Dueling Sword is WAY BETTER as a katana than the bastard sword and i do see the point your trying to make
how is this not mechanically better than any ranged fighter or monk?
Statistical inferiority. Shuriken do a 1d2 damage, have a 20/x2 crit and a 10 foot range increment. They are an exotic weapon, which basically means they are unusable by any classes except the ones that get them for free. (Monk, Ninja) No other class would ever burn a feat or trait on the ability to use them.
They are mechanically inferior in all ways to the Dart, which is a simple weapon.
The only thing that would keep a ninja or monk from using darts instead is the fact that they can Flurry shuriken. It's still not enough though. For the Flurry the Ninja and Monk gain the ability to do as much average damage as they could with a fist full of darts and fewer attacks, and they're doing it at shorter range.
The extra attacks granted by flurry probably won't let them do as much damage as they could do with daggers, and definitely won't do as much damage as they would do with Hatchets or Javelins.
Right now the only thing that makes Shuriken viable as a weapon choice is that extra attacks means an extra saves vs. poison. Damage-wise they are absolutely the last choice for a ninja or monk that wants to attack at range.
The only thing that would counter-balance this is to give those classes tricky BS that they could only do with Shuriken.
missed points
No I meant how is your proposal to give monks and ninjas this for free not stepping on fighters toes, ranged peoples toes, rogues toes and rangers with ranged toes. It is mechanically better or close to better than most of these and it definitely should not be.
|
Here's a simple fix: genjutsu = the various rogue magic talents. However, the ninja is limited to the school of illusion and may take them multiple times. Uses over what the rogue gets cost 1 Ki.
Kunai = daggers that deal 1d3 damage and have a 20 foot range rather 10 foot.
Windmill Shuriken: starknife with range of 30 feet, does 1d6 damage, -4 penalty to attack with in melee, two-handed weapon, but folds up so is treated as light weapon for the purposes of hiding via Sleight of Hand, if you're dead set on it being able to return - then give it the boomerang's ability to come back to the thrower (but only when it misses). Otherwise you're getting into the domain of the magic weapons.
I think this meets the desires without being too over the top. I may not be that much of a ninja fanboy, but by wife is definitely a ninja fangirl.
I removed some posts. Be civil.
Well i guess my point was proven. Ninja Fanboy's think Ninja and there items are made of over-powered magic.
As a side note Malkari Durant i approve of your ideas. Cool yet not over-powered.
my whole point tho is that ninjas are secretive(even i the real world) so they should have things that people have never seen before
Okay, the windmill shuriken..
Hits everyone in the arc = chain lighting in an arc
Returns to the owner = the Returning magic weapon propertyI could see it as an expensive magic weapon, but to have it as a mundane weapon at 1st level? That's too much.
i have updated it making it more balanced and just a FYI it does 1d6 not 1d6 every level it takes a -2 penalty then the -2 becomes a -4 -8 -12 and so on and every target after the first it adds 5ft on the the ranged that its traveled so say the first enemy is 20 ft away and the next is 30 that 55ft and your now 55 ft away it can't get back to you if anyone has any ideas on how to make my homebrew windmill shuriken more balanced (not that it should be ignored or not used or anything like that) but real input on how to make it fair just say the person dming my campaign is ok with it but i want it to be fair so its not game braking.
we are also playing COT and the Pally in the party is SO UBER BROKE its not even funny (with smite) hes one shooting bosses makes my wizard sad i am to the point that i dont even want to play any more but we are at the last book so i am suffering through.
just trying to make the ninja i little different not brake the game
a lot of things that were really hard to read
I don't usually do this, but I like the fact that you're willing to try your hand at manipulating the rules to suit your style. Your math and sense of balance is a little off, but everyone's got to start somewhere.
So here's my advice: Keep doing what you're doing. Play with the numbers, try new things. Allow yourself to be humble enough to let other people tear down what you've created (because they will) and keep refining things.
But please, please for the love of vecna, PLEASE do something about your writing skills.
Brake is not the right word. You're looking for Break. I know spell check doesn't pick it up, but re-reading your own post should have been enough to let you pick out the mistake.
Seriously, no one will take you seriously or even acknowledge you as anything more than an annoyance if your writing is bad. It's the internet. Worse, it's a gaming forum on the internet. Most of us are hyper opinionated elitist jerks used to dealing with the world by hiding behind our above average intelligence. Judgmental does not even begin to cover it. Lucky, we tend to enjoy arguing about stupid insignificant things like whether or not a kunai is a knife, so opportunities for discussion and refinement of our craft is about infinite.
Assuming you can write. Out here in internetland, your grasp of written language is the first thing on which others will judge your intelligence.
Oh, and here you go:
Windmill Shuriken: +1 Shuriken of Returning.
1d6 20/x2 crit, 10' range increment.
This Huge-sized Shuriken (apx 1 foot diameter), is enchanted in such a way that it is wieldable by creatures of up to three size categories smaller than itself (down to size Small). It also returns to it's wielder as per the Returning enchantment. Any creature proficiant with Shuriken may weild a Windmill Shuriken without penalty.
As a full round action a character proficient with Shuriken may make an attack with a Windmill Shuriken at every creature along a circular or elliptical arc up to the maximum range of the weapon. The flight path must be uninterrupted by trees, walls or other obstacles. One attack roll is made at the character's highest bonus and compared against each creature's armor class. Damage is dealt as normal. Range penalties are assessed normally. (This modifies the original attack role on a case by case basis). If the Windmill Shuriken is deflected or blocked at any point along it's path, it simply skips off the barrier and returns to it's wielder. If it is caught or trapped (such as with the Snatch Arrows ability) it is lost.
Unlike normal ammunition, Windmill Shurikens are created as one item, and not as ammunition.
Aura: Moderate CL:7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Telekinesis, Animate Object
Cost: 9,000 gp
a lot of things that were really hard to readBut please, please for the love of vecna, PLEASE do something about your writing skills.
Assuming you can write. Out here in internetland, your grasp of written language is the first thing on which others will judge your intelligence.
Yes, I get heckled all the time I am just bad at writing. Most likely do to the fact that I was put in learning disabled classes for English because I was so bad at spelling.
I am trying to get better at my sentence structuring, usage and spelling are hard for me. I do not disagree with what you are saying just keep this in mind and I will try harder, ok?Also, I do like the Windmill Shuriken idea there but maybe it could be 20 ft? Or, Windmill Shuriken: +2 Distance Shuriken of Returning.
I was just trying to make a mundane item that was not game braking but maybe that was too much. Also thank you for the input. :D
my whole point tho is that ninjas are secretive(even i the real world) so they should have things that people have never seen before
No ninjas are secretive and don't want to reveal themselves so they should use the most mundane non memorable non flashy items available.
Oddball weapons should be the purview of disinformation.
my whole point tho is that ninjas are secretive(even i the real world) so they should have things that people have never seen before
Yes ofcourse.
Everyone knows rogues are flamboyant and that they tell everyone all their secrets.
As well as rangers, who often roam the streets parading exploits.
Seriously?
my whole point tho is that ninjas are secretive(even i the real world) so they should have things that people have never seen beforeYes ofcourse.
Everyone knows rogues are flamboyant and that they tell everyone all their secrets.
As well as rangers, who often roam the streets parading exploits.
Seriously?
Now don't be like that, think of the poor npcs. I'm sure some of them will love players effectively holding a sign "Me squishy ninja, ignore the fighter! Kill me, kill me hard!".
Also, I do like the Windmill Shuriken idea there but maybe it could be 20 ft? Or, Windmill Shuriken: +2 Distance Shuriken of Returning.
I was just trying to make a mundane item that was not game braking but maybe that was too much. Also thank you for the input. :D
I based it off the standard shuriken, hence 10' range increment (which is pretty accurate in terms of realism)
making it +2 or adding additional enchantments is the same as any other weapon. It's doable, just more expensive.
For the item I just took a Weapon of Returning, added the spell requirement that a Weapon of Dancing needs and gave it a special ability. Base cost 8k, plus an extra 1k for the special ability of the weapon.
Turns out I forgot to add the cost of the weapon to the cost of the enchantment, but because shuriken costs are pretty negligable it doesn't add much even when sized up. The cost should actually be something like 9006 gp.
That's the most mechanically sound baseline I could come up with for what you were after. The windmill shuriken out of modern ninja lore is *never* a mundane item. Even when it's not flat out said that it's magic, it's still forged by demons or some legendary master smith, or has air spirits bound to it or some other metaphysical crap.
If you want a basic weapon that returns to you, just start with stats for a boomerang and make it slashing damage instead of bludgeoning. Hand wave the fact that it can be caught fairly easily with "because i'm a ninja".
One game. A long time ago.
We fought vampire ninjas.
The rules for ninjas in this game. Is that the more ninjas there are, the less powerful they are. But. When there is one ninja.
You are about to get your head chopped in nine hundred ways.
Was hilarious.
Also.
No Naruto ninjas. Please. Just die. Die now.
Especially the American Naruto Ninja.
They can especially die.
