RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 6
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Filthy Beard Brawler (Monk)
Filthy beard brawlers follow a fighting style based on the bearded devil which fights with reach with a glaive then closes with claws and spiky, filthy beard. Despite the name, filthy beard brawlers can be either gender as they use a bite rather than a beard while fighting. A slashing strike simulates the glaive. Many filthy beard brawlers are none too clean and those with experience use their filth to make opponents ill.
Beard Bite (Ex): At 1st level, each time a filthy beard brawler hits with two flurry of blows in one round he can also bite for an additional 1d4 points of damage plus half the filthy beard brawler’s Strength modifier. The bite uses the filthy beard brawler’s full base attack bonus -5. The filthy beard brawler gets one additional bite for every two additional flurry of blows that hit (for example, if six flurry of blows hit he gets three bites). This ability replaces Stunning Fist.
Bleeding Chop (Ex): At 3rd level, if the filthy beard brawler makes an unarmed strike, he can choose to either cause bludgeoning damage or slashing damage. In addition, if a filthy beard brawler hits with flurry of blows with an attack that causes slashing damage, he also inflicts bleed damage. This attack causes the target to take damage equal to 1/2 the filthy beard brawler’s level every round at the start of each of the target’s turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or by the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. Bleeding damage from this ability does not stack with itself. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess. This ability replaces maneuver training.
Devil Dance (Ex): At 5th level, the filthy beard brawler can increase the reach of his melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of his turn by taking a –2 penalty to his AC until his next turn. He must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made. He can spend 1 ki point to avoid the -2 AC penalty for one round. This ability replaces high jump.
Filthy Bite (Ex): At 17th level, the rotting chunks in the filthy beard brawler’s mouth now carry disease. A target hit by a beard bite attack makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the filthy beard brawler’s level + the filthy beard brawler’s Wis modifier) or contracts devil chills. This ability replaces tongue of the sun and moon.
Devil Chills: Disease—injury; save Fort DC variable; onset 1d4 days; frequency 1/day; effect 1d4 Str damage; cure 3 consecutive saves.
Eww...kinda gross. And that's coming from someone that has a beard! I just prefer the groomed version over the filthy version. ;-)
Okay, let's see what you've got. It's another devil-emulating archetype, but without the heavy Cheliax theme. The bite attack feels okay, even if a little unorthodox for a martial arts monk. But they're following the lead of a bearded devil, so it figures. I don't care for the Bleeding Chop. I think to gain that power at 3rd level and have the ability to inflict that much bleed damage off a simply flurry of blows goes a little too far. The Devil Dance ability is somewhat okay. It borders on the Lunge feat with a ki usage to negate the AC penalty. I'm okay with that. Filthy Bite is just nasty. Both in description and implementation. Much like the poisonous strike Viper Monk archetype from before, I'm not sure I want to get behind granting a disease-ridden bite attack, but at least this one could potentially be a bit more explainable. Still, if the monk is a carrier of devil chills, does that mean he's immune to it? Normally, creatures are immune to their own diseases. I'm a little curious as to how this monk archetype would have attained that based purely off an (Ex)traordinary Ability.
At any rate, this theme had a unique core idea behind it. I just think it has some mechanical breakdowns to it, particularly the massive bleed damage potential. Even a rogue with the bleeding attack rogue talent still requires a sneak attack to pull it off. This monk archetype would only require a flurry of blows, which is usable pretty much every round he's in direct combat.
So, given all that, plus the reservations about a disease bite, I'm going to say I DO NOT RECOMMEND this archetype design to advance to the next round. But, the voters could very easily save this one. It's got some decent mojo behind it, that's for sure. Best of luck in the voting.
Total Points: 1.5 Points
Recommendation: Not recommended to advancement
Comments In Detail
Name & Theme (.5 point)
Horrible name matches theme (unfortunately)
Mechanics (0 points)
You provided 4 features and all of them are sub par. Why would I want any of this instead of the existing Monk features?
Awesomeness (0 point)
You lost me with the name and it got worse with the features. Was this a joke submission? Did you decide you really didn't want to continue with the contest and would rather flame out spectacularly? I'm torn between critiquing this submission for others to learn from and fearing that I'm feeding a joke.
Template (1 point)
Followed the template well.
Context (0 points)
Has no context. Has no style. Has no chance.
Beard Bite (Ex): You had me up until you said that it keeps getting more and more bites. One, you get one attack per round with a natural attack; you don't get iteratives, and you certainly wouldn't get extra attacks at the full attack bonus. Two, a high-level monk already gets 7 attacks per round with a flurry... potentially increasing that to up to 10 is just silly.
Devil Dance: One, this is just the Lunge feat, so you should call it that because there will be players who'll want to use Lunge *and* this because they think they'd stack. Two, Lunge isn't available until at least 6th level, so you're giving this ability away before even the fighter can get it. I do like the spending ki to ignore the penalty, though.
Filthy Bite: This is more of an NPC thing, as PC enemies rarely live long enough to worry about disease effects. And by the time you're a 17th-level PC facing an evil filthy beard brawler, negating disease is a trivial task (even with a DC 23 or so caster level check), so it's not much of a threat.
I would have liked to see more meat in this archetype. You spent a lot of words describing the effects of the Lunge feat, and more on the game stats of devil chills--words you could have spent adding more coolness to the archetype. I think it's decent, but not great.
RECOMMENDATION: I do NOT recommend this archetype design for advancement in the competition.
Franchise Manager
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I'm a big monk fan, and that makes me extra particular when looking at monk themed items and archetypes. So I applaud you for taking on the (unintended) challenge of doing a monk variant. Let's see how you did!
There's a precedent of fighting styles emulating devils in Cheliax, Empire of Devils, as well as the Hamatulatsu technique taught by the Sisters of the Golden Erinyes in Isger, so I see where you're trying to go with this thematically. I'm not sure "dirty beard" was the way to go, though. It creates a weird disconnect in my head trying to think of a female monk using this style, if only because of that name, for example.
I also notice a lot of awkward phrasing and arhythmic flow in this that could certainly be refined. Sentences like "a slashing strike simulates the glaive" don't flow well with the surrounding sentences, and should probably be combined in a way to make it seem less jarring, even if doing so cuts into word count. I've often found that making more elegant prose eliminates needless words and actually gives me more words to work with overall.
I would have loved to see proficiency with a glaive added, as that's the weapon being emulated. I don't feel like any slashing attack really captures the feel of a bearded devil, nor does allowing an unarmed strike to do it really make up for it. I am all for giving monks alternatives to bludgeoning damage only with their unarmed strikes, but the bleeding chop ability here really feels like two abilities. The bleed damage from actual slashing weapons should probably be its own alternate class feature. I also feel like dealing half the monk's level in bleed damage is way too much. Sure, it's 1 hp at 3rd level, but even bleed 5 is really brutal at 10th level when all that's needed to deliver it is a single hit on a full attack action.
Devil dance is a cool ability that works like the Lunge feat, and I like that the monk has the ability to spend ki to avoid the AC penalty. But it doesn't jive in my head with a bearded devil inspired fighting style. Neat, but off theme.
Finally, the jump in level between 5th and 17th is huge! I would have much rather seen more abilities spread out over more levels, as the "goodies" provided by this archetype are very front-loaded, and by 17th level, disease is a much smaller threat against enemies, most of whom aren't actually going to last three days after encountering a party before the symptoms even show. Sort of a let down. (Oh, and Neil, a monk of 17th-level is immune to all diseases, even his own.)
In the end, I like what you were trying to do here, and think there's certainly room in the game for more tightly-themed fighting styles (both for monks and other classes), but I don't feel that this particular archetype lives up to the high potential of such a style. Thus, I DO NOT RECOMMEND this archetype for advancement, but the voters may feel otherwise; a lot of people really like the iron bands of the blue dragon, so we may see you in future rounds yet! Best of luck.
Filthy Beard Brawler (Monk)
The name is bizzarre, but i understand how it fits the concept.
Introduction wording wasn't written well. It didn't roll off the tongue. A lot of wasted words.
In the write up you should have used "he" instead of repeatedly saying "fithly beard brawler".
3rd level ability: It would have made more sense to just say his attacks have the "bleed" ability under the Universal Monster Rules. You repeated rules that were published, which wasn't necessary. As it is currently written, it seems slightly confused. The bleed damage is a bit too much at higher levels. I would just give it a set die of bleed, making it better at lower levels and just helpful at higher levels. Maybe 1d6.
5th level: I like this ability
17th level: I like this ability
I'm not a big fan of this one. I think the idea has potential, but it could have been executed better. I don't know anything about the Cheliax mentioned, but that sounds like you may have been inspired by that.
I think it may have suited a Barbarian better.
Just my thoughts,
Ken
I agree with the judges on this one, a good concept that fell down on execution. One bite seems ok, but SKR is right, three is over doing it. I'm fine with the slashing strike but the bleed damage is kind of insane. At 20th level you have seven attempts to cause bleed of 10 every round. The disease to me seems weak for its level, and themed fighting aside, filth and monk seem like a strange mix to me.
+1 to Nick Bolhuis comment.
I don't like the name even a little bit.
Overall, it's flavorful (I've already made that pun once during the contest. I can't be stopped).
Getting the disease ability at 17th seems pretty negligible, but tongue of the sun and moon isn't an earth-shaking ability in the first place. In this case, losing that ability seems pretty thematically correct.
Also, this stacks with drunken master. Now you can play a filthy, drunken brawler!
Honestly, this has some issues. It may still get my vote for the sheer chutzpa of the theme. On the bubble.
The flavor is nice, but you never officially made the glaive a monk weapon which means I can't flurry with it. I also don't see this as something I would expect to see other than in a homebrew game.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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I really wanted this archetype to involve a filthy, disgusting beard groomed to the point it causes wounds. Just for the raw novelty of it. That left me disappointed with the bite attacks. I also think making this a monk style oriented around the glaive (even keeping the bites) might have had a better shot. As it is, despite an eye-catching name, I'll have to pass on to other entries.
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There's a precedent of fighting styles emulating devils in Cheliax, Empire of Devils, as well as the Hamatulatsu technique taught by the Sisters of the Golden Erinyes in Isger, so I see where you're trying to go with this thematically. I'm not sure "dirty beard" was the way to go, though. It creates a weird disconnect in my head trying to think of a female monk using this style, if only because of that name, for example.
Psst! Mark, I think this archetype has been inspired by me! Although I'm a bit disappointed that the author disregarded and excluded my glorious 'Brimstone Aura' from the mechanics.
Filthy Beard Brawler (Monk)
1.Is the Archetype conceptually interesting?
2.Are the mechanics of the Archetype interesting?
3.Are the mechanics of the Archetype balanced and well executed?
But rather than simply adding up the marks for a final score I'm gonna interpret them as a point in 3-dimensional space and the final mark of your submission will be the length of the vector between the origin and this point.
Note that my ranking doesn't need to directly correspond with my votes, as other factors like: Strength of your item submission, mood, my horrorscope and other random stuff still factor in. Also note that this scheme is highly subjective and only mirrors my perception and opinion about your archetype submission.
Conceptual Mojo (CM): 2, the wild, stinking, bearded brawler is a nice concept, but I would like it more as a barbarian Archetype.
Mechanical Mojo (MM): 1, There is nothing with beards or brawling and only one thing with filth. There is a lot emulating bearded devils, but nothing intriguing there too.
Mechanical Execution (ME): 1 Wonky, overpowered in places, and illogical in others.
Final note: Not much bearded brawling, a bit bearded devil and not enough to like for my tastes.
Total Score: 2.449
RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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How cool is it that two finalists chose to emulate devils for their fighting styles? ANd I like that plan - that a nation ruled by diabolists might learn from their patrons a unique fighting style, or that maybe blink dog paladins (:b) would emulate the heroic combat styles of their hound archon benefactors.
Unfortunately, both attmepts really struggled with balance. 10 attacks per round? Bleed damage equal to half my level?
And, really, if you're emulating bearded devils, why not skip the whole bite rigmarole and just have a pointy, firm devilish beard as a (Su) or (Ex) ability? Let the beard be a rake attack after a grapple or something, and make a halberd or naginata a monk weapon for the class. Your initial idea could have had a lot of flavor. Your execution was broken and uninspired.
The critical comments of Sean and Ryan are right on. Beyond the initial theme, I don't feel there's much to covet here. I do congratulate you for having moved on, and I bet a second effort would yield a pretty fun class.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The name is engaging (though I was thinking dwarves rather than devils) and the concept is clear, with a rational Golarion tie-in and some precedent for aping devil fighting styles.
But, the abilities are way too good (heavy bleed that's easy to achieve at low levels, Lunge before fighters can get it, and that questionably would stack with it) or too bad/funky (disease at 17th level? pretty much pointless).
The idea isn't bad, but it's not superstar at its basis, and the mechanics leave something to be desired.
Congrats on making it to round 2, and best of luck!
I agree with the aforementioned comments that the bite doesn't seem very bearded devil-y. Give them the beard! And less attacks overall. 10 bleed at level 20 isn't that bad--it's the equivalent of a rogue--but the rogue has to get a sneak attack in order to pull it off. Devil's dance is the only ability I really like. Add to all of that the rather clumsy language, and I'm afraid that I won't be voting for this entry.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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Star Voter Season 6
aka raidou
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Charles, last round you gave us an awesome electrical suit, and here you've given us a devil-themed monk who fights dirty. And by dirty I mean gore-caked. Dwarves of both genders salute you. Let's see what we've got here.
Beard Bite (Ex): At 1st level, each time a filthy beard brawler hits with two flurry of blows in one round he can also bite for an additional 1d4 points of damage plus half the filthy beard brawler’s Strength modifier. The bite uses the filthy beard brawler’s full base attack bonus -5. The filthy beard brawler gets one additional bite for every two additional flurry of blows that hit (for example, if six flurry of blows hit he gets three bites). This ability replaces Stunning Fist.
I liked this okay enough right up until allowing another attack per two that hit. One secondary natural attack is fine. More than that and you're just getting ridiculous, and not precedented by elsewhere in the game. Everybody go make a sandwich while Beardface makes his seventeen attacks.
Bleeding Chop (Ex): At 3rd level, if the filthy beard brawler makes an unarmed strike, he can choose to either cause bludgeoning damage or slashing damage. In addition, if a filthy beard brawler hits with flurry of blows with an attack that causes slashing damage, he also inflicts bleed damage. This attack causes the target to take damage equal to 1/2 the filthy beard brawler’s level every round at the start of each of the target’s turns... This ability replaces maneuver training.
This is better than Bleeding Critical or Bleeding Strike sneak attack. It's not a terrible idea for an ability, but it's excessive at this level and it's too easy to use.
Devil Dance (Ex): At 5th level, the filthy beard brawler can increase the reach of his melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of his turn by taking a –2 penalty to his AC until his next turn. He must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made. He can spend 1 ki point to avoid the -2 AC penalty for one round. This ability replaces high jump.
So... he gets the Lunge feat. Or maybe this stacks with the lunge feat. That's a long beard, if so. I think this needs to be reexamined for how it interacts with Lunge.
Filthy Bite (Ex): At 17th level, the rotting chunks in the filthy beard brawler’s mouth now carry disease. A target hit by a beard bite attack makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the filthy beard brawler’s level + the filthy beard brawler’s Wis modifier) or contracts devil chills. This ability replaces tongue of the sun and moon.
Disease is an interesting attack mode for PCs, who tend to favor the instant gratification of things being defeated RIGHT NOW, over letting them expire a few days from now. Also, at 17th level the things you are fighing are going to be able to solve the disease problem pretty handily. But it replaces a pretty wimpy ability at this level. If you solve the multiple beard attack problem, I don't really have an issue with this.
Charles, this is an okay submission. I don't love its execution; I think it could be tightened up quite a bit. But it evokes an interesting fighting style and a monk with a bite attack is not something I've seen elsewhere. I'm not sure it has enough going for it to garner my vote, however.
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The name is engaging (though I was thinking dwarves rather than devils) and the concept is clear, with a rational Golarion tie-in and some precedent for aping devil fighting styles.
But, the abilities are way too good (heavy bleed that's easy to achieve at low levels, Lunge before fighters can get it, and that questionably would stack with it) or too bad/funky (disease at 17th level? pretty much pointless).
The idea isn't bad, but it's not superstar at its basis, and the mechanics leave something to be desired.
Congrats on making it to round 2, and best of luck!
No wonder -- I think Charles came up with this archetype after witnessing me in a drunken brawl against a horde of Taldorian dandies! ;P
I'm not surprised that he made it to round 2; all it took was some fervent prayers to Asmodeus (involving sacrifices of filthy underwear) and some intimidate checks to make sure my fellow posters know who they should vote...
Filthy Beard Brawler (Monk)
Filthy beard brawlers follow a fighting style based on the bearded devil which fights with reach with a glaive then closes with claws and spiky, filthy beard. Despite the name, filthy beard brawlers can be either gender as they use a bite rather than a beard while fighting. A slashing strike simulates the glaive. Many filthy beard brawlers are none too clean and those with experience use their filth to make opponents ill.
You should know the drill by now, but in case you missed it the first time round, Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus:
Would you want this person sitting next to you as a guest at a formal evening dress dinner party?
To be frank, no, I would not like to have someone who admires and regards barbazus as role-models sitting next to me at a dinner table. Especially not given that he's likely 'none too clean'. Indeed I would hope that a hostess with any sense and social grace would not invite such a ruffian to dine at her table, or at least not without arranging for some unfortunate 'accident' to befall him on the way either to or from her residence.
How effective a flower-picker does this person seem likely to be?
He is a filthy man who emulates barbazus. His breath alone would probably cause most flowers to wilt and die. And if they were robust enough to handle that, then hopefully their scent would cause him to keel over dead.
Could you hire one person like this to do a better job than one other trained mercenary and/or to do the jobs of two (or more) other trained mercenaries?
In the unlikely event that you can get past the fact that he is fundamentally a fawning lackey (witting or not) of the hells and ultimately of Asmodeus, he does seem unpleasantly good at what he does as compared to the average monastic. I cannot bring myself to recommend that you hire him, however, unless it is for a mission which guarantees his painful and messy demise somewhere along the route. At that point he can find out for himself in Hell just what the epitomes of oppressive evil that he's spent so much time admiring actually think of him. There is not much justice in the multiverse, and I generally do not think much of what there is of it, but I am prepared to admit that just occasionally it can be both beautiful and poetic.
Other comments?
I believe that I've said just about all that needs to be said on the subject of filthy beard brawlers. Well apart from the fact that the name is unusually chaotic given that the practitioners (or at least the female ones) don't actually have filthy beards. I'm surprised - given Asmodeus' known chauvinistic tendencies and the name and theme of this particular monastic order - that filthy beard brawling isn't an exclusively male preserve.
Desirability:
On a par with conjurors.
Beard Bite: The bite does 1d4 damage, but doesn’t include the text about what damage a Large or Small monk does. Multiple bites are interesting, I note that you have to successfully hit to get them. The problem is that this gets a lot better as you go up levels and Stunning Fist only gets slightly better.
Bleeding Chop: Half your level in bleed is not as powerful as some might think, especially as it doesn’t stack with itself. Compared with Belier's Bite (a feat that lets your unarmed strikes deal 1d4 bleed damage) it is ok(ish). But only having to lose Maneuver training for it is too cheap.
Devil Dance: an improved version of Lunge for high jump is, again, way too cheap, this should have been limited to unarmed strikes only or given up more abilities.
Filthy Bite: The disease is way too late, no 17th level PC worries about disease.
A very specific archetype and the abilities just don’t do it. You did swing for the fence on this one, if you get through, work on being solid with the game balance for your villain. Good luck.
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
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Name and concept: I suppose a monk could draw inspiration from one of the more brutish and undisciplined of devils, though it doesn't sit that well with me. An alignment restriction could have helped support this. Bite and slashing nails (presumably), well, perhaps .. I will say I don't interpret uncleanness necessarily as a violation of monastic ideals, so that works all right.
Archetype mechanics, expression of the concept: Beard Bite: "Flurry of blows that hit" is just bad message-board talk. I'm not happy about the looseness of language describing a natural attack either.
Bleeding Chop: Quite a lot of bleed damage. Requiring a flurry of blows to apply it actually might be helpful as a restriction. This is much stronger than what it gives up.
Devil Dance: Really should have cost ki to use at all as written. I would have preferred something like the Combat Patrol mechanic. It needed to clarify whether he threatens the relevant area for attacks of opportunity.
Filthy Bite didn't need to reprint the statistics for devil chills, which are in the core rulebook. Unless he actually eats devil's flesh or something equally nasty to take on this particular disease, I would have called it (Su). I agree with the choice of losing the tongue of sun and moon here.
Wider relationships: It mostly avoids the trap of considering any "brawler" to be a monk. The APG explicitly sets an expectation that those individuals are mostly barbarians.
I see some decent points of inspiration here, but it's too rough to gain my vote above the rest of the field.
It's an interesting idea, but I don't like the abilities.
Devil Dance (Ex): At 5th level, the filthy beard brawler can increase the reach of his melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of his turn by taking a –2 penalty to his AC until his next turn. He must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made. He can spend 1 ki point to avoid the -2 AC penalty for one round. This ability replaces high jump.
Not sure why no one caught this, but it would be far better to use a ki point to gain +4 AC for one round, than to negate a -2 penalty.
I almost didn't read this one from the name, but I'm glad I did - I'm not a huge fan of any devils or demons in general, but the Bearded Devils always struck me as fascinating (some nice ones in the epic Quicksilver Hourglass as well).
The bleed effect isn't nearly as strong (at least initially) as the Belier's Bite feat out of the Cheliax book, available to monks at Level 1.
I hope your head is feeling better Charles, because you've got my vote, and I want to see more!
Not sure why no one caught this, but it would be far better to use a ki point to gain +4 AC for one round, than to negate a -2 penalty.
Because it takes a swift action to get a +4 dodge bonus to AC, and if I'm getting reach, I'm probably making a full attack and I'm likely to want to spend my swift action (and ki point) on getting an extra attack. Negating the -2 penalty doesn't take an action, so if I really want to hit, I might do both.
Obligatory End of Round 2 Results Post:
Consequently a multitude of books of etiquette are in circulation with examples of ‘appropriate’ phrases to use in various situations. I shall take the liberty of quoting a few:
…Greetings, your most puissant highness…
…Why sirrah, it is a pleasure to meet you. May one inquire, is that an enchanted cold-iron dagger of demon-slaying in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me?...
…Goodbye Mr. Bond…
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 6
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I wanted to thank everyone including the judges who posted feedback here and helpful criticism. And if you took the time to post something that was positive toward me personally (not my archetype), then thank you very much. I appreciate it more than you know!