Good news! The "Sorting" is done. All items have made their proper journey into the Keep or Reject piles.
Now, begins the "Winnowing." :-)
Pull up a chair, fellow judges...and roll up your sleeves. It's time to haggle over the Top 32!
|
Good news! The "Sorting" is done. All items have made their proper journey into the Keep or Reject piles.
Now, begins the "Winnowing." :-)
Pull up a chair, fellow judges...and roll up your sleeves. It's time to haggle over the Top 32!
I failed my Will save so I am compelled to ask: How many items made it into the Keep pile?
Pretty please?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
,
Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
|
Can you tell me if my item is in the "Keep" pile? ;)
|
|
Good news! The "Sorting" is done. All items have made their proper journey into the Keep or Reject piles.
Now, begins the "Winnowing." :-)
Pull up a chair, fellow judges...and roll up your sleeves. It's time to haggle over the Top 32!
I failed my Will save so I am compelled to ask: How many items made it into the Keep pile?
Pretty please?
That would be interesting to know and it shouldn't harm anything in knowing the number you are having to whittle down.
Thanks for the update. Would be alot of fun to be in your seats judges. :-)
I CAN'T HANDLE THE PRESSURE!!!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
*heavy breathing*
okay i'm okay now, these next 12 days will be like hell waiting to find out if I made it or not!
Woot!
*fingerscrossed* hope my item is still in.
To all who are in: Good luck in staying in till the end. You just have to hold on for 12 more days.
I checked, there are twelve. Just, twelve...
Well, glass half full here, we're all winning for 12 more days!!
Look at me, I'm winning, I'm winning...ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz
Chief Technical Officer
|
That would be interesting to know and it shouldn't harm anything in knowing the number you are having to whittle down.I failed my Will save so I am compelled to ask: How many items made it into the Keep pile?
Pretty please?
We don't do numbers... but I will say that it's noticeably fewer than 10% of the total number of entries.
We don't do numbers... but I will say that it's noticeably fewer than 10% of the total number of entries.That would be interesting to know and it shouldn't harm anything in knowing the number you are having to whittle down.I failed my Will save so I am compelled to ask: How many items made it into the Keep pile?
Pretty please?
Which means that there are at least 320+ submissions!
... but we all already figured as much... yay, math.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
,
Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9
|
Schrödinger's Wondrous Item... still alive, still alive, still alive... or is it?
It is alive in Golarion, but not in Greyhawk or the Realms according to my multi-dimensional scrying.
|
Dedicated Voter Season 6
|
Schrödinger's Wondrous Item... still alive, still alive, still alive... or is it?It is alive in Golarion, but not in Greyhawk or the Realms according to my multi-dimensional scrying.
But that's only because you are looking at it in Greyhawk or the Realms, but aren't paying attention to it in Golarion.
This is pure guesswork.
I remember seeing once that there was around 900ish submissions early in the life of this competition, lets assume that was around 4 years ago.
So 3 years ago, lets assume a 10% growth (to keep maths fairly simply)
SO thats 1000ish entries then.
1100ish 2 years ago
1200ish 1 year ago
1300ish give or take this year.
So if 10% make it to the maybe pile, thats 130 in the pile of which 98 are minnows.
So for every 3 minnows theres a minnow eating big fat master minnow submission.
Thats probably enough maths to scare most :)
I repeat: these numbers are pure guesswork and based on subjective thoughts and simple arithmetic.
Thats probably enough maths to scare most :)
lol!!!
Do you have any idea the crap my players have tried to pull in the past. I was once running an epic campaign where someone flew up in the air, enlarged themselves, and then began a nose dive at a monster... turning himself into metal halfway.
Try calculating that damage!!!
I seem to recall someone saying a while back that they had over 40 in their 'keep' pile, and that was a few weeks ago. So, somewhere between 40 and 130 and with the 'noticibly fewer' comment, I'll guess they have about 60 items in the keep pile.
Having submitted my item early on in the competition, I know that my item's probably been read and sorted weeks ago. But the end is nigh, soon, we will know. Who is still in the running to be America's Next Top Model.
Er, Paizo's RPG Superstar. ;)
|
Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
|
This is pure guesswork.
I remember seeing once that there was around 900ish submissions early in the life of this competition, lets assume that was around 4 years ago.
So 3 years ago, lets assume a 10% growth (to keep maths fairly simply)
SO thats 1000ish entries then.
1100ish 2 years ago
1200ish 1 year ago
1300ish give or take this year.
So if 10% make it to the maybe pile, thats 130 in the pile of which 98 are minnows.
So for every 3 minnows theres a minnow eating big fat master minnow submission.
Thats probably enough maths to scare most :)
I repeat: these numbers are pure guesswork and based on subjective thoughts and simple arithmetic.
I think the growth has been exponential rather then steady, in keeping with the growth of Pathfinder. But guess, the number of entries have gone from something between doubled and squared compared to 2008. Assuming 1000 entries in 2008 that means between 2-4000 this year. My suspsicion is that those numbers are much lower in reality, somewhere in the hundreds rather then thousands.
But the end is nigh, soon, we will know. Who is still in the running to be America's Next Top Model.
Er, Paizo's RPG Superstar. ;)
There are two beautiful wondrous items standing before me, but I have only one picture in my hands...
My Eyeshadow of Sm'eyes'ing will take you all down.
(I have a wife with questionable tastes in TV. What can I say?)
Hah, to be honest you are all beaten by the
Paziomoniconion Hammer of Righteous Judging Smackdowneth
{Heavily paraphrased...}
ME: What do you think the chances are of a guy like me... ending up in the top 32?
PAIZO JUDGES: Well, Dave, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
ME: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I spent a lot of time waiting on this. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
PJ: Not good.
ME: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
PJ: I'd say more like one out of a million.
{pause}
ME: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*
|
|
{Heavily paraphrased...}
ME: What do you think the chances are of a guy like me... ending up in the top 32?
PAIZO JUDGES: Well, Dave, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
ME: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I spent a lot of time waiting on this. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
PJ: Not good.
ME: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
PJ: I'd say more like one out of a million.{pause}
ME: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*
I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. :P
PJ: Here's nomadicc's wondrous item. Johnny, what can you make out of this?
Johnny: This? Why, I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl...
|
|
So for every 3 minnows theres a minnow eating big fat master minnow submission.
Here's hoping my submission is swimming around in the Keep folder, bellowing "GET IN MAH BELLY!!" ;-)
...or at least that he found a good hiding place and rolled well on his Stealth check.
Seriously though, good luck to everyone! Eleven days to go!
|
Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
|
But the end is nigh, soon, we will know. Who is still in the running to be America's Next Top Model.
Er, Paizo's RPG Superstar. ;)
There are two beautiful wondrous items standing before me, but I have only one picture in my hands...
My Eyeshadow of Sm'eyes'ing will take you all down.
(I have a wife with questionable tastes in TV. What can I say?)
The girl down the street from my Mom won ANTM Cycle 13. Smiled and nodded to a few times and even had 30 second conversation with her so I was sucked into watching.
New artifact idea--House of Hopeful Models
Target is imprisoned in a pocket dimension with pretty early twenties women and forced to compete in modeling competition. The only way to escape is to take bad pictures.
Just curious, but after the top 32 are announced, could a list of those that made it in the keep pile be listed?
Not the full description and creator name, just maybe a list of the item names.
That way if it is your item you will know you made it to the keep pile.
Just curious, but after the top 32 are announced, could a list of those that made it in the keep pile be listed?
Not the full description and creator name, just maybe a list of the item names.
That way if it is your item you will know you made it to the keep pile.
We've generally not done that in the past. The judges this year are free to do it if they want. There are lots of reasons for this. Now, last year in some of my "Clark give me feedback comments" I would say an item was briefly in the "Kept" folder if someone asked.
We also, in the past, have not revealed the "ranking" of the top 32 items. You either make the cut or you don't. Candidly I dont know if the judges this year are ranking them or not.
Clark
We also, in the past, have not revealed the "ranking" of the top 32 items. You either make the cut or you don't. Candidly I dont know if the judges this year are ranking them or not.
Idle curiousity: in the past, how well did the judges internal ranking compare with who/what voters preferred?
We also, in the past, have not revealed the "ranking" of the top 32 items. You either make the cut or you don't. Candidly I dont know if the judges this year are ranking them or not.Idle curiousity: in the past, how well did the judges internal ranking compare with who/what voters preferred?
Great question!
Remember, of course, the voters dont vote on the items so there is no direct comparison of public preference to our choice. The first time the public votes is after the second round and the public then has a new thing to evaluate for that round, so the public votes (when they vote) are related to the second round submission, not the item. That said, each year there has been a golden ticket item (an item that just squeaked into the top 32) that has made it to the final 4. In general we do a good job with our initial ranking. But we have also had some real high ranked items drop out quick. The contest is an evolution and growth period, and you can't tell that just from the item. Each year, afterwards, the judges look back and see how well our "pre-selection" matches up with the results. There is no perfect criteria. We are (or always have been) in agreement that the wondrous item creation is the best way to select the 32 contestants from the general submissions. You've actually hit on a really big point for me--I view the first round as the judges selecting who the 32 contestants will be from all the submissions we get (hundreds upon hundreds). That is one reason I am (or was) more forgiving for small technical mistakes on an inspired and cool item, since I am actually selecting contestants for a public contest not just evaluating an item.
Just curious, but after the top 32 are announced, could a list of those that made it in the keep pile be listed?
Not the full description and creator name, just maybe a list of the item names.
That way if it is your item you will know you made it to the keep pile.
This will happen in the feedback thread, though you may have to read through the lines a little. It would be nice to know from keep/reject, but mostly you just need to translate the amount of discussion. :) Take a look at Vic's translations in last years feedback thread.
I think AA got the numbers a little high but close. Of course my estimate is based on give or take %.
You've actually hit on a really big point for me--I view the first round as the judges selecting who the 32 contestants will be from all the submissions we get (hundreds upon hundreds). That is one reason I am (or was) more forgiving for small technical mistakes on an inspired and cool item, since I am actually selecting contestants for a public contest not just evaluating an item.
That's an interesting distinction. I'm sure we're all wondering now to what degree that helps or hurts us, given our unique strengths or weaknesses.
Semi-related side curiousity (also open for any other judges or anyone else who cares to comment): To what degree are the items you like, have picked, or would vote for similar to the items you personally would create?
To give a personal example, Lief Clennon's Seven Thousand Blossoms might be my favorite wondrous item from last year -- but at the same time is the kind of item that I would/could never create. My creativity, such as it is, runs in really different directions. I'm curious if that kind of thing is just me.
Just curious, but after the top 32 are announced, could a list of those that made it in the keep pile be listed?...Not the full description and creator name, just maybe a list of the item names....That way if it is your item you will know you made it to the keep pile.
I doubt we'll be doing that (unless Vic and the rest of the Paizo crew decide they want to). Even so, if folks ask for feedback in the appropriate thread, I don't see any harm in letting a specific individual know their item made it pretty far in our review process.
Also, making the Keep pile isn't the only badge of honor. There were actually a fair amount of items that were "good enough for a book of magic items, just not Superstar"...which we went ahead and sorted out into the Reject pile rather than throw them into the Keep pile knowing we'd just be pulling them out again. That doesn't mean they weren't good, solid items. Just that we knew they wouldn't overcome those we already had in the Keep pile. If they'd come in a little earlier in the competition, we might have Kept them around a bit longer for comparison purposes, though.
--Neil
Can't wait to see the final 32, so that I can add **MY** two cents. ;D
Just curious, but after the top 32 are announced, could a list of those that made it in the keep pile be listed?...Not the full description and creator name, just maybe a list of the item names....That way if it is your item you will know you made it to the keep pile.I doubt we'll be doing that (unless Vic and the rest of the Paizo crew decide they want to). Even so, if folks ask for feedback in the appropriate thread, I don't see any harm in letting a specific individual know their item made it pretty far in our review process.
Also, making the Keep pile isn't the only badge of honor. There were actually a fair amount of items that were "good enough for a book of magic items, just not Superstar"...which we went ahead and sorted out into the Reject pile rather than throw them into the Keep pile knowing we'd just be pulling them out again. That doesn't mean they weren't good, solid items. Just that we knew they wouldn't overcome those we already had in the Keep pile. If they'd come in a little earlier in the competition, we might have Kept them around a bit longer for comparison purposes, though.
--Neil
I agree with Wesley Lee's comments a list of items which made the keep pile would go a long way towards boosting the confidence of other authors. Some of whom might have a chance in the future. A bit confused about your comments regarding when items are submitted Neil, as your comments imply that getting your item in sooner rather than later improves your chances. As long as you get your entry in by the deadline, why should that matter?
Can't wait to see the final 32, so that I can add **MY** two cents. ;D
How about some limbering up in the voluntary reject bin? :D
A bit confused about your comments regarding when items are submitted Neil, as your comments imply that getting your item in sooner rather than later improves your chances. As long as you get your entry in by the deadline, why should that matter?
There are times when I think I shouldn't post anything about what goes on during the sorting of submissions, as it seems to stir up more confusion and misunderstandings than it helps.
That said, the short answer to your question is no. It doesn't matter if your item comes in early or late. They all get assessed the same, regardless of whether or not they make a brief stopover in the Keep pile or get a Reject right away.
The considerably longer answer:
When you have tons of items that flood in on Day One (because everyone's so eager and ready to go), we go ahead and take some that might be "shaky" on mechanics or writing and hold onto them in the Keep folder for awhile, just so we'll have them to compare to the items that keep pouring in over the course of the competition. Those items might stick around for awhile before we eventually move them out to the Reject pile. That's because another flood of items always comes in at the end as people wait until the last minute to submit...or folks delayed submitting because they were holding out for every last shred of advice or discussion that gets stirred up during the submission window here on the boards.
All you really need to know is that the judges sort everything into one folder or the other. And, items that come in at the end which are viewed as "shaky" on mechanics or writing ability (like some of those that may have temporarily made it into the Keep pile in the early going) don't go straight to the Keep pile anymore. That's because it's very quickly shaping up that more of those aren't going to stand up to the better items that are already in there. And, those items that made it into the Keep pile in the early going...which we weren't bowled over by but Kept them around for a bit...are usually the first to get sorted back out of the Keep pile as we reassess the strengths of what we've got to winnow things down to the Top 32.
But really, that's way more than you need to concern yourself with. There's no advantage to submitting early or later in the submission window. Each item gets assessed on its own merits. And, once we know we've got a lot more than 32 Superstar-worthy items in the Keep folder, we're already identifying those that may have made it into the Keep pile in the early going as flagged for removal. And, rather than put more of those types of items into the Keep pile with newer submissions, we just go ahead and Reject those to make our work go faster.
More confused? That's more than I really cared to get into...so it's unlikely I'll dive back in to rephrase my answer. I just don't want anyone to think they're influencing the judges' decision-making with an early or late submission. That really makes no difference. But people place a lot of emphasis on "making the Keep pile" and I just wanted to point out that sometimes items make the Keep pile but get sorted out relatively quickly when we winnow things down. And in the later going, there are similar items that never get the Keep pile designation even if they might have been the same caliber...i.e., really good, just not quite good enough to make the Top 32.
--Neil
Okay Neil, I think I understand your position. Thanks for taking the time to answer! I`ll be watching for updates.
Can't wait to see the final 32, so that I can add **MY** two cents. ;D
And I'm eager to hear your two cents worth Jim. (Of course I'm a bit more eager to learn I made into the 32... but that will all get sorted out in time... 11 days to go... practically 10 days really). :)
Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm
Can't wait to see the final 32, so that I can add **MY** two cents. ;D
I'm also eager to get a glimpse of the Top 32 and give some advice and helpful feedback.
I'm very appreciative of just how much work the judges do to get it down to 32. I know it's early, but thanks for giving so much of your time to do this.
We don't do numbers... but I will say that it's noticeably fewer than 10% of the total number of entries.That would be interesting to know and it shouldn't harm anything in knowing the number you are having to whittle down.I failed my Will save so I am compelled to ask: How many items made it into the Keep pile?
Pretty please?
I know you don't release numbers... but why not? WotC had no problem releasing approximate numbers in the "Setting Search" contest. We know there were about 10 thousand or 11 thousand submissions. I don't think it harmed WotC in any way to release that figure, nor would it harm Paizo to do likewise. If anything, it can serve as a form of advertising of the sort, "look how many people participated in my contest!"
Perhaps Paizo is worried that once the growth of the RPG Super Star submissions peaks and they start levelling off or even declining, it would serve as negative advertising? It is possible, but even without the exact number Paizo reveals each year that submissions have 'grown substantially' or something to that effect, so changes are annoucned anyway even if in a number-less manner.
Or is Paizo worried that numerous competitors will discourage submissions? It didn't happen in the WotC contest, even though everybody knew there would be a huge number of submissions. I think the advertising effect of numbers would be stronger than the discouragement effect. Besides, it might encourage those who failed in one year to resubmit in another by soothing their feelings (e.g. "Yes, I didn't make it to top 32, but there were 1200 submissions this year, so I have nothing to feel bad about..."), plus give an even greater sense of accomplishment to those who do make it to top 32. Oh, and for the rest of us, our curiosity would be sated. ;)
...But the end is nigh, soon, we will know. Who is still in the running to be America's Next Top Model.
Er, Paizo's RPG Superstar. ;)
For a second there I thought I was on the wrong messageboard.
I know you don't release numbers... but why not?
Paizo has been very silent on the number of contestants over the years, but an eduacted guess is as follows:
RPG Superstar entries per year:
1st year: 800+ entries
2nd year: less than the first year, so I'd say 600+
3rd year: still in the 600-800 range
4th year: better than ever, so more than 800+ (maybe even more than 1000)
I think you can explain the variations by pointing at 4e, the release of Pathfinder etc etc.
It is a good thing to see that there is still a ton of talent out there.
Good luck Neil. I am not aware of this appropriate thread you talked about for feedback. Could you please let me know?