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So if you guys were alowed to re-write the rules for slings in pathfinder, what would the sling stats and write up look like?
Would you have any feats just for slings?
Would you allow the users to load 2 bullets for an attack?
#1 Allow rapid reload to work with slings
#2 Make it so many shot cannot be used with rapid shot.The sling is now 1 feat behind the composite bow. The crossbow retains it's advantage over the sling for low strength users, the sling is the weapon for higher strength simple weapon users, the composite longbow is the weapon of choice for high strength martial characters (and elves).
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So how do we get Paizo to add this to their errata?So if you guys were alowed to re-write the rules for slings in pathfinder, what would the sling stats and write up look like?Would you have any feats just for slings? No, just change Rapid Reload, to include Slings should solve the problem.
Would you allow the users to load 2 bullets for an attack? Yes, if used with the Manyshot feat.. just need some extra wording to include slings.
Do not want more feats.... just needs some feats on the books now, to be a little more open to other weapon options.
These things could be in Ultimate Combat.
Sling fans should probably get onto the 'What do you want in UC' thread and make it clear that they would like to see different options.
The easiest way to do this would probably be to include a new weapon: War Sling - same stats, costs 1cp, and can be reloaded as a free action (or uses rapid reload).
At the risk of coming off like an arrogant douche, let me say that I am a historian, specializing in military history. I am a long-time (20 years +) instructor of primitive and traditional skills. I have made traditional bows for a long time, and currently own at least 15 slings....
Don't worry about coming of like a douche for telling us your actual credentials. I, for one, appreciate hearing from someone with real expertise. I don't think you really need by backup, but I've read a number of academic papers about slings and bows, and everything I've read agrees with your statements.
So if you guys were alowed to re-write the rules for slings in pathfinder, what would the sling stats and write up look like?
I would give it exactly the same stats as the shortbow, but with bludgeoning damage rather than piercing, and a x2 crit multiplier rather than x3. Not only would it have the same numeric stats, but the rules for firing, loading, moving, provoking, etc. would be the same.
If I wanted to get more detailed I would add:- Bows may be used while squeezing without a penalty to attack rolls. (Simulates the very important ability of archers to fire from close formation.)
- A slinger may use a buckler or light shield in their off hand without penalty. A sling may be fired, but not loaded, while using a medium shield. During the round the sling is fired, the slinger looses the AC bonus from their buckler or shield.
Death to iterative attacks. We gave iterative attacks a good run! It's had a nice long time to enjoy itself! But it's not working out. It creates significantly more problems then it solves.
I'm inclined to agree with you. There are a lot of ways in which the game would be simpler and run smoother without iterative attacks. I might start a thread to discuss this.
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At the risk of coming off like an arrogant douche, let me say that I am a historian, specializing in military history. I am a long-time (20 years +) instructor of primitive and traditional skills. I have made traditional bows for a long time, and currently own at least 15 slings....Don't worry about coming of like a douche for telling us your actual credentials. I, for one, appreciate hearing from someone with real expertise. I don't think you really need by backup, but I've read a number of academic papers about slings and bows, and everything I've read agrees with your statements.
So if you guys were alowed to re-write the rules for slings in pathfinder, what would the sling stats and write up look like?I would give it exactly the same stats as the shortbow, but with bludgeoning damage rather than piercing, and a x2 crit multiplier rather than x3. Not only would it have the same numeric stats, but the rules for firing, loading, moving, provoking, etc. would be the same.
If I wanted to get more detailed I would add:
- Bows may be used while squeezing without a penalty to attack rolls. (Simulates the very important ability of archers to fire from close formation.)
- A slinger may use a buckler or light shield in their off hand without penalty. A sling may be fired, but not loaded, while using a medium shield. During the round the sling is fired, the slinger looses the AC bonus from their buckler or shield.
I'm inclined to agree with you. There are a lot of ways in which the game would be simpler and run smoother without iterative attacks. I might start a thread to discuss this.
Death to iterative attacks. We gave iterative attacks a good run! It's had a nice long time to enjoy itself! But it's not working out. It creates significantly more problems then it solves.
Based on Curdog's information I would reduce the range as well.
You're not reducing the maximum range so much as reducing the range increments - apparently it's hard to aim a sling unless you've been trained from birth.
You could then have a trait (peasant slinger?) which gives all slings you use the range increments of a shortbow to reflect that deep learning.
So if you guys were alowed to re-write the rules for slings in pathfinder, what would the sling stats and write up look like?
2) Death to iterative attacks. We gave iterative attacks a good run! It's had a nice long time to enjoy itself! But it's not working out. It creates significantly more problems then it solves.
This. But since we know that isn't going to happen for PF anytime soon,
Sling: No move action reload, range increment 50 ft, no other changes.
Staff sling: No move action reload, range increment 80 ft, no other changes.
(I have thought that perhaps the sling should should be a martial weapon, also)
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Umm no...your hand is just free for casting spell with a light shield. Period. No switching hands nonsense anymore. You hand is free enough to cast a spell, it's free enough to hold a rock and put it in a sling. In fact slingers using a large shield (not even a light shield mind you) is a popular military tactic in ancient times.I respectfully disagree.
You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.You can indeed hold a weapon in the same hand as a light shield (it IS an object after all), you just can't use it (to make attack with) while so held.
The only thing that might get in the way is action economy (different GMs have different rulings on how long it takes to switch an item from one hand to the other, or to otherwise change "handedness").
Except of course that if you go by what Jason says, the light shield leaves your hand's free enough for spells. IF you as a DM just can't accept that, then he suggests you use the switch hands as a fluff reason only. I.e. There is NO mechanical penalty for using a weapon, light shield and casting a spell. The light shield in anycase does leave the hand free enough to hold weapons or a wand...and it's free enough to put said weapon or wand away as a move action. That means that hand is free enough to hold a sling bullet and load it. And that is why clerics and paladins and any spell caster who uses a light shield so they can cast spells would mechanically pick a sling over the bow or crossbow. It's not a hard concept people. And yes most paladins and clerics in my gaming group do use slings...even at high levels.
Making all the weapons "historically accurate" would only serve to over complicate the rules. When a simple i swing X weapon for Y damage works fine. Why would i want to spend more time thinking about if a certain weapon will pierce this certain kind of armor better than something else.
The D20 system is an abstraction on real life not a mirror image of it.
Example;
AC covers thick armor, shields, or just being quick to not get hit.Its also a fantasy game not a history book so i really don't care if you've spent your entire life using x weapon or armor and think it deserves better stats.
Slings are garbage after a certain level if you are able to buy/use a bow.
Does it really matter what there are called; what if the sling was called Simple Ranged Weapon 3 and the Bow was called Martial Ranged Weapon 2? Would there still be arguments over which one is better?I think not since it seems to stem from a PERSONAL opinion of a certain weapon.
I said roughly historically accurate. No one else has raised weapon type versus armour type so you are just throwing a red herring into the discussion. We do know combat in the game has all sorts of abstractions. But within the abstractions that are used - damage, range increments, weapon type - there is room for making changes to
the sling's stats.It's only a personal opinion if one takes a position without regard to supporting facts....
I wonder if Goliath's last words were "don't worry lads, it's a garbage little sling. If that little shepherd bow had a bow you wouldn't have a chance of getting me out there."
I'm currently playing a gnome bard/barbarian with a +1 disruption sling. There are very few things more satisfying than watching a vampire fail a DC 15 Fortitude save.
Ha! We had a rogue with a +1 disruption light mace that always disintegrated a bothersome lich every time he showed up. That lich invariably rolled a 1 for the FORT save. Every. Time. We never knew what he was, just that the mace always took care of him. The GM hated that mace.
/derail
What ever happened to Slings.
Back in 1st, 2nd ed... every Blunt restricted class used slings as range weapons.
But in Pathfinder, i rarely see anyone mention them now.
Did something happen to Slings, to make them Obsolete in Pathfinder ??
I read through this thread, and fascinating though it has been, I did not see the answer that immediately popped into my mind (apologies if I simply missed it):
Because there's no longer any blunt restricted classes. In AD&D, if a cleric wanted to use a ranged weapon, their choice was sling, sling, and sling in many cases.
For ranged fighting, a cleric now has a choice between daggers, darts, blowguns, slings, javelins, shortspears, and crossbows, plus possibly a deity's favored weapon should it be a ranged weapon.
Druids have similar choices, minus blowguns and crossbows.
Now, I don't think the sling is "obsolete" any more than it was in AD&D, and I don't think it's a bad weapon--it's just that there are more things to choose from, so you're not going to see it as often. That said, there are indeed the issues of ROF which is why you won't see slings very often at high levels, though I'd kind of like to see a halfling mobile sniper with a sling or slingstaff at higher levels. Throw in vital strike and you don't have to care so much you're not making full attacks (or just houserule Rapid Reload to apply to slings, as many are suggesting).
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Now, I don't think the sling is "obsolete" any more than it was in AD&D, and I don't think it's a bad weapon--it's just that there are more things to choose from, so you're not going to see it as often. That said, there are indeed the issues of ROF which is why you won't see slings very often at high levels, though I'd kind of like to see a halfling mobile sniper with a sling or slingstaff at higher levels. Throw in vital strike and you don't have to care so much you're not making full attacks (or just houserule Rapid Reload to apply to slings, as many are suggesting).
Hmm. Going to have to disagree on the obsolete issue, since in AD&D it was competitive in damage (1d4+1 vs. 1d6 for bows), and in 3E it had its damaged nerfed down to 1d4 (bullets now doing what stones used to do), while longbows got upgraded to d8s.
Now, I don't think the sling is "obsolete" any more than it was in AD&D, and I don't think it's a bad weapon--it's just that there are more things to choose from, so you're not going to see it as often. That said, there are indeed the issues of ROF which is why you won't see slings very often at high levels, though I'd kind of like to see a halfling mobile sniper with a sling or slingstaff at higher levels. Throw in vital strike and you don't have to care so much you're not making full attacks (or just houserule Rapid Reload to apply to slings, as many are suggesting).Hmm. Going to have to disagree on the obsolete issue, since in AD&D it was competitive in damage (1d4+1 vs. 1d6 for bows), and in 3E it had its damaged nerfed down to 1d4 (bullets now doing what stones used to do), while longbows got upgraded to d8s.
You are forgetting, however, that you needed a much higher strength/dexterity (a 17 at least) to deal extra damage in AD&D (although I honestly don't remember which if any applies to sling damage in AD&D). Anyone with a Strength of 12 or higher makes that 1d4+1 and can ultimately do more damage, relatively speaking, with a sling in Pathfinder, more easily, without a billion layers of weapon specialization (although the Weapon Specialization feat helps). But it gets a bit apples/orangey to think about how different bonuses and modifiers stack. I would not, however, consider the loss of a +1 bonus a "nerf" when there are so many other ways to stack damage in the current system.
At any rate, that wasn't the main issue I was trying to address in my post---more the "gee, why aren't blunt restricted users using slings any more?" Was what I wanted to get at--there aren't blunt restricted users to begin with. And the people who are limited to simple weapons don't get significantly better damage from any other weapon other than a sling except for a crossbow, which takes time to load and doesn't add strength to damage, and spears, which must be retrieved.
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Actions needed to load and fire various ranged weapons:
Crossbow: Brace crossbow; either use your str to pull back the string or use a hand crank; Pull bolt out of quiver/case; slot bolt, aim; fire.
In D&D/Pathfinder terms - full round action.
Shortbow/longbow: draw arrow out of quiver; slot arrow on cord; pull back to chin/ear (depending on type); Aim; Release.
D&D/Pathfinder terms - 1 free and 1 standard action
(After watching the videos above)
Sling: pull bullet out of pouch at belt; Seat in cup of sling; draw back arm; aim; release.
D7D/Pathfinder terms - full round action. (WTF!)
It takes no longer to load/fire a sling than it would a bow. I can see a crossbow taking a move action to load, but not the sling.
My fix, either make bows a move action to load or make the sling a free action. I'm fine with the stats of a sling otherwise.
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(After watching the videos above)
Sling: pull bullet out of pouch at belt; Seat in cup of sling; draw back arm; aim; release.
D7D/Pathfinder terms - full round action. (WTF!)
Except of course that is NOT how a sling worked back then. You put the sling stone in the cup, pull the sling tight, then WHIRL the sling and release. What you described is how slingshots work.
Except of course that is NOT how a sling worked back then. You put the sling stone in the cup, pull the sling tight, then WHIRL the sling and release. What you described is how slingshots work.(After watching the videos above)
Sling: pull bullet out of pouch at belt; Seat in cup of sling; draw back arm; aim; release.
D7D/Pathfinder terms - full round action. (WTF!)
There are a few ways to cast a shot - the twirl, the upper flicking motion and under arm flicking motion ...
the flicking style is just as fast as pulling a bow. The time recovering the cup seems to be the slowest part of using a sling, but that is minimal.
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Cold Napalm, did you even watch the videos at the beginning of the thread?
What I'm describing is using a traditional sling.And the way you describe it is a free action to load the cup, and a full round action to throw the stone.
Umm the pull back slings in those videos are NOT traditional slings. Traditional slings = made of leather...not green polymer. Leather does not have the properties to store enough energy to be used like a slingshot. See the video on the three traditional ways to sling that BF put up...the third video. That is how you use slings. Course that part ignores the loading aspect, but you need to strech the sling tight before the whirls...in anycase, think of it this way, the move is to put the stone in the cup and get it whirling...the standard is to take aim and fire (you know like a crossbow or a bow).
As for the flicking method the first guy in the first video uses...yes you can do that if you have a short sling...which is designed to stun small animals for hunting...not even really kill them. Those are not the slings of D&D...anymore then a paring knife is a dagger.
If I wanted to make ranged weapons somewhat historically accurate and ballanced, I would:
1. Eliminate Point Blank and Manyshot (Though keep precise and rapid). Loading 2 arrows on a string is not realistic in a combat situation, as it reduces acuracy greatly and basically doubles the time to fire the arrow. Rapid shot is fine because archers/crossbowmen can get that good (I know numberous people in the SCA who can hit 30+ a minute with good accuracy).
2. Change slings to free action to load like bows. Put slings back to a 1d4 for stone 1d4+1 for bullets weapon.
3. give all bows a 30ft (maybe 50ft) minimum range, with a -4 range penalty to hit targets inside it. Archer's Paradox is a b#~%$.
4. Increase the range that precision damage can be applied out to the range in which you have no range penalties. Add a Greater Far Shot that reduces range penalties more so you can make sneak attack out to 2 range increments.
5. Crossbows would have a set str modifier. People who are not strong enough would increase the reload action time by 1. Rapid Reload would still be there, so the crossbow would be 1 feat behind the bow, but it would be a simple weapon instead of a martial, and some of the APG feats would make them worth it.
Someone mentioned the Bastard sword and it got me thinking that you could make the sling a martial weapon that can be used as a simple weapon.
If used as a simple weapon, keep the stats as written.
If used as a martial weapon, up the damage to 1d6 for a bullet, up the range increment to 100ft, load it as a free action.
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The clumsiest part of using a shepherd's sling is to regain control of the release cord. Several projectiles may be held in the weak hand.
After the release, an expert will continue the motion.
The cradle will catch around a stone held out with the weak hand, so that the end of the release cord swings back to the strong hand retaining the loop.
Just after the knot begins to swing, slightly before the knot reaches the strong hand, one drops or throws the projectile toward the ground with the weak hand, starting into the next release.
With this method, a skillful user can throw an aimed stone every few seconds in a cyclic coordinated movement, until the weak hand is empty.
Quote Edited for Digestion
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Cold Napalm, did you even watch the videos at the beginning of the thread?
What I'm describing is using a traditional sling.And the way you describe it is a free action to load the cup, and a full round action to throw the stone.
Umm the pull back slings in those videos are NOT traditional slings. Traditional slings = made of leather...not green polymer. Leather does not have the properties to store enough energy to be used like a slingshot. See the video on the three traditional ways to sling that BF put up...the third video. That is how you use slings. Course that part ignores the loading aspect, but you need to strech the sling tight before the whirls...in anycase, think of it this way, the move is to put the stone in the cup and get it whirling...the standard is to take aim and fire (you know like a crossbow or a bow).
As for the flicking method the first guy in the first video uses...yes you can do that if you have a short sling...which is designed to stun small animals for hunting...not even really kill them. Those are not the slings of D&D...anymore then a paring knife is a dagger.
So the answer to whether you watched the videos is no. Got it.
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So the answer to whether you watched the videos is no. Got it.Cold Napalm, did you even watch the videos at the beginning of the thread?
What I'm describing is using a traditional sling.And the way you describe it is a free action to load the cup, and a full round action to throw the stone.
Umm the pull back slings in those videos are NOT traditional slings. Traditional slings = made of leather...not green polymer. Leather does not have the properties to store enough energy to be used like a slingshot. See the video on the three traditional ways to sling that BF put up...the third video. That is how you use slings. Course that part ignores the loading aspect, but you need to strech the sling tight before the whirls...in anycase, think of it this way, the move is to put the stone in the cup and get it whirling...the standard is to take aim and fire (you know like a crossbow or a bow).
As for the flicking method the first guy in the first video uses...yes you can do that if you have a short sling...which is designed to stun small animals for hunting...not even really kill them. Those are not the slings of D&D...anymore then a paring knife is a dagger.
1) What video are you talking about?!? All I see the BF's links.
2) It doesn't matter what I saw...the physical properties of leathers says slings made from leather can not be used the manner you described.
2) It doesn't matter what I saw...the physical properties of leathers says slings made from leather can not be used the manner you described.
Traditional slings were made of all sorts of different materials - wool, rushes, string, leather, or a combination - it would depend on what materials were available where the slinger lived.
None of them would have been "used like a slingshot" - which is as different from a sling as crossbow is from a bow.
I think Tim's reference to "draw back the arm" is where you think he is talking the method of firing a slingshot. Whereas I suspect - correct me if I am wrong Tim - that he is referring to the "overarm" throw style of slinging. Pretty similar to throwing a ball overarm but with the added leverage provided by the length of the sling.
In any event I think slings used with a lead/ceramic bullet should be 1d6, free action to reload, crit 20/x2 (if only because I'd see an arrow more likely to cause a grievous wound like cutting an artery, cutting through a tendon etc than a sling bullet). Perhaps strength bonus to damage only applicable out to a certain number of range increments.
I recall a discussion thread a long time ago which covered the kind of issue DrDew is talking about. Namely, weapon proficiencies and the damage attributes of the weapon based on the user's level of proficiency with a weapon rather than the weapon itself being in a particular category (simple, martial, exotic).
Perhaps Basic, Martial and Expert for a sling - a "basic" proficiency might give the user 1d4, range increment 30', no strength bonus to damage; martial might be 1d6; and expert might be 1d8, higher range, better crit multiplier etc, free action reload.
Likewise long bows might range from 1d6 and move action reload at basic up to 1d8 or 1d10, free action reload, better crits etc at expert.
Perhaps it is something to consider in the Ultimate Combat threads.......
Sling
M Dmg 1d12 19-20/x3 300 ft. 0 lbs. brutal 3, trip, disarm, stun
Sling
M Dmg 1d12 19-20/x3 300 ft. 0 lbs. brutal 3, trip, disarm, stun
That sounds about right.
What's "brutal" do?
Going by the Wikipedia entry:
A skillful throw requires just one rapid rotation. Some slingers will rotate the sling slowly once or twice to seat the projectile in the cradle.
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Several projectiles may be held in the weak hand. After the release, an expert will continue the motion. The cradle will catch around a stone held out with the weak hand, so that the end of the release cord swings back to the strong hand retaining the loop. Just after the knot begins to swing, slightly before the knot reaches the strong hand, one drops or throws the projectile toward the ground with the weak hand, starting into the next release. Some people braid the end of the release cord around a weight to help perform this maneuver. With this method, a skillful user can throw an aimed stone every few seconds in a cyclic coordinated movement, until the weak hand is empty.
Unless there's reason to discredit this, I believe this gives perfect reason for a person to apply Rapid Reload ("trained expert") to apply to Slings.
"One shot per couple seconds" can mean 2-3 shots per 6 second round. That's enough to cover a martial character's ability up to 15th level. 16th level might be looking at making things seem unrealistic... but we have to remember we are talking about a 16th level sling user, for crying out loud. Let's give him a little leeway here, we aren't asking him to balance on clouds or something.
Now, I don't see this applying so well to the slingstaff.. which would be using heavier load. Then again, it would be similar to a crossbow in style of use (higher damage, longer reload), and the Rapid Reload feat was made for using a crossbow... so who knows.
I'm almost ready to say that the Sling should be a martial weapon (which some people get for free, indicating training since childhood), that is treated more like a bow in reloading ammunition. Maybe a caveat that if you are using it untrained, you suffer an additional -4 penalty for attempting to reload as a free action.
Then keep the simple weapon entry and just rename it "Slingshot".
A thread about slings that runs for 133 posts...
this game must either be fascinating, or else its players must be utter nerds :P
I am curious if we ever arrive at a state where every single entry in the core rulebook has undergone such thorough revisions - or if we are even already past that point in time.
We are probably well past that point in time if you include any and all forums that have existed up to the present time.
On the OP, this thread actually inspired me to make a character whose primary weapon is a sling (and the bombs and other alchemical items he makes as ammo).
I already have incorporated the use of Rapid Reload for slings back in my games, even before Pathfinder; hadn't considered the use of Multishot, but I'm not against it.
I'm also for the sling being a d4 weapon with stones and d6 with bullets. Isn't there a feat already that you can use to improve a ranged weapon's range? If not, there should be one, I think. Finally, I do feel slings should be bludgeoning weapons.
Finally, does anyone have a link to a video showing someone using a rapid reloading technique with a sling. I seem to remember somehow reaching one from the Wikipedia entry, but can't seem to find it anymore.
Also, I've seen slings used with knive-like projectiles and darts. What are people's thoughts on these - just change the damage type to piercing and/or slashing?
Sling
M Dmg 1d12 19-20/x3 300 ft. 0 lbs. brutal 3, trip, disarm, stun
That sounds about right.
What's "brutal" do?
What Jadeite said. It is a quality from 4e, lets you reroll any damage equal to or lower than the listed number. A 2d6 weapon benefits from it a lot more, obviously.
this game must either be fascinating, or else its players must be utter nerds :P
Maybe I should write up an Ulimate Sling PDF. :)
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I think Tim's reference to "draw back the arm" is where you think he is talking the method of firing a slingshot. Whereas I suspect - correct me if I am wrong Tim - that he is referring to the "overarm" throw style of slinging. Pretty similar to throwing a ball overarm but with the added leverage provided by the length of the sling.
Yes. They showed 3 ways to fire a sling in the various links (which were videos is naplam would have bothered to look). The standard twirl over the head was one (and not the most common), the sidearm (action much like a whip), and, as called in the how to video, the figure 8, or overarm method.
In any event I think slings used with a lead/ceramic bullet should be 1d6, free action to reload, crit 20/x2 (if only because I'd see an arrow more likely to cause a grievous wound like cutting an artery, cutting through a tendon etc than a sling bullet). Perhaps strength bonus to damage only applicable out to a certain number of range increments.
meh. d4 + str works for me. It's the rate of fire that bugs me.
There is literally no reason to ever use a weapon that is not a bow. Almost every class that lacks martial weapon proficiency and actually uses weapons has bow proficiency.
Crossbows were "the weapon spellcasters use when they ran out of spells," and that's not a niche, that's an embarrassment. Slings are the same, but for druids.
Not exactly. I can see this for slings, and yeah, bows are the best, but recent crossbows feats can help to build a crit focused crossbow wielder.
Damage output would not be at the level of the archer and could be more feat intensive, but with twice the chance to crit and force a relevant save.
I can see this with fighter because:
1) More feats and the chance of not be stuck with crossbows only
2) the x1 multiplier at level 20 has a bigger gain from an higher crit chance weapon
3) critical mastery
4) Funny 140-210 deadly stroke ambushes with double crossbow.
I would use the sling more often if only you could reload as a free action and use iterative attacks with it.
A sling plain and simple rocks for any character with changing Str-score who wants to use ranged attacks.
Raging barbarians and clerics come to mind.
With a bow the bulls strength the cleric just casted on me helps me jack s!~!, and thrown weapons have so little range they hardly qualify as ranged weapons at all.
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I think Tim's reference to "draw back the arm" is where you think he is talking the method of firing a slingshot. Whereas I suspect - correct me if I am wrong Tim - that he is referring to the "overarm" throw style of slinging. Pretty similar to throwing a ball overarm but with the added leverage provided by the length of the sling.Yes. They showed 3 ways to fire a sling in the various links (which were videos is naplam would have bothered to look). The standard twirl over the head was one (and not the most common), the sidearm (action much like a whip), and, as called in the how to video, the figure 8, or overarm method.
Okay so you ARE talking about BF videos. The figure 8 method is using a short sling. It doesn't generate nearly the power of the longer slings of the video above it. The overhead, underhand and sidearm methods using the war length slings all involve whirling. The figure 8 method is for when you have a short hunting sling for small games. And if YOU bothered to see all the videos, the second one he posts has two guys one doing the figure 8 with a short hunting sling and another guy using a green slingshot...so the way you said it I assumed you were talking about the guy using the green sling shot...now who's the one that hasn't seen the videos?
I am curious if we ever arrive at a state where every single entry in the core rulebook has undergone such thorough revisions - or if we are even already past that point in time.
Not there yet, I got a couple lines I know aren't done yet I'm holding in reserve for slow times.
Keep in mind that this kind of slings also exists. And, oh boy, their damage is brutal.
IRL speaking, they are much faster to reload than bows, and they actually make little noise, except for the flying bullet towards your head.
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So if you guys were alowed to re-write the rules for slings in pathfinder, what would the sling stats and write up look like?
Would you have any feats just for slings?
Would you allow the users to load 2 bullets for an attack?
Since the description of a sling on Wikipedia says that one cord is effectively "tied" to your slinging hand, I'd say slings are always effectively benefitting from a Weapon Cord. I'd be tempted to argue for a x3 crit modifier as well, and I'd allow them to benefit from Rapid Reload. I might also give Halflings back their +1 to hit with slings and thrown weapons from 3.5.
I did have an idea a while back for a "Sling Anything" feat that would parallel Throw Anything and Catch Off-Guard, which would allow you to use alchemical and splash weapons as sling ammo to gain its range increment. Apparently most folks on this thread have already been using that as a rule though.
I wouldn't allow 2 bullets in one attack. I don't even like the fact that Manyshot exists. I know you used to be able to do that with shuriken in 3.5 though. Maybe some sort of special ammo for a sling that's actually a handful of smaller pellets? Perhaps an alchemical bullet that lets you aim at a square and do AoE damage?
Despite the massive necro-ing, I'm glad to see this thread back up and running. The sling (and really, every ranged weapon other than the composite longbow) needs more love.
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Despite the massive necro-ing, I'm glad to see this thread back up and running. The sling (and really, every ranged weapon other than the composite longbow) needs more love.
With you. I'm actually in the midst of writing some 3rd party stuff just to deal with that disparity.
Rapid reload has been and still is one of the worst feat taxes to exist in the game primarily because it penalizes you for not playing bow or spell ranged builds and causes all this trouble. What makes matters worse is if you actually sit down and crunch the numbers you can figure out the price you're paying for it (at least in regards to crossbows) as being somewhere between -5 gp and 25 gp. No feat should be worth so little without some equipment supplement.
Same goes for the other ranged weapon options. To get back onto the matter of slings the fact that the halfling sling staff isn't covered by either the warslinger halfling trait or juggle load is a crying shame especially considering that said sling staff has existed since the beginning of pf and yet somehow gets forgotten by 2 abilities that were printed FOR THE PRIMARY RACE THAT USES THEM (halflings).
Sorry if this sounds aggressive but I've grown rather tired of having to struggle to build anything with a range build that isn't your stereotypical bow or spell build and that it has kind of fostered this attitude that they are not only inferior but do not deserve any more attention or love and it just feeds this cycle.
Man, I had completely forgotten that there was this sling thread before the other one.