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With the first round, the general impression seemed to be that the Magus was too weak.
It seems to be an improvement for sure.
I heard many people say the magus should have a full bab, or something like the monk.
I've seen lots of comments on the new magus' specific abilities, but nothing on the class as a whole?
How does this class compare to others?
To the base classes?
To a decent Eldritch Knight build?
EK has more raw power. Better BAB, better HP, more spells, more higher-level spells. Marginally so in each case.
Magus has a bigger bag of tricks. Lots of free metamagicing, casting in armor, limited-spontaneous effects, and other fun abilities.
They fill slightly different (though adjacent) niches. In some ways, it's like the difference between a Fighter and Barbarian. (Though don't take that metaphor too far.)
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EK has more raw power. Better BAB, better HP, more spells, more higher-level spells. Marginally so in each case.
Magus has a bigger bag of tricks. Lots of free metamagicing, casting in armor, limited-spontaneous effects, and other fun abilities.
They fill slightly different (though adjacent) niches. In some ways, it's like the difference between a Fighter and Barbarian. (Though don't take that metaphor too far.)
I think EK can have 9th level spells if you do it right.
and you've got much better BAB, and better HP.one feat gives you both the ability to cast unimpeded in all light armor types but one, and less ASF for heavier armors. (much better than the magus' casting in armor).
While the Magus is better than the first round Magus, The EK build still seems to be better all around as a gish.
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With the first round, the general impression seemed to be that the Magus was too weak.
It seems to be an improvement for sure.
I heard many people say the magus should have a full bab, or something like the monk.
I've seen lots of comments on the new magus' specific abilities, but nothing on the class as a whole?
How does this class compare to others?
To the base classes?
To a decent Eldritch Knight build?
Eldritch knight is basically a caster that can wear armor. They give up some power for more HP and better BAB, but they basically will be casting spells to end encounters as opposed to actually fighting.
Magus at the moment looks like a solid gish at low levels that gets overshadowed at high levels by full casters and full melee.
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Eldritch knight is basically a caster that can wear armor. They give up some power for more HP and better BAB, but they basically will be casting spells to end encounters as opposed to actually fighting.
Magus at the moment looks like a solid gish at low levels that gets overshadowed at high levels by full casters and full melee.
Yeah. The Magus looks pretty good at the lower levels, but it just can't keep up as the game goes on.
It looks like it needs a boost at the later levels. (Maybe 8 or 9plus it starts to lag behind in utility).
I VERY much like how arcane bond became arcane pool. Arcane Pool is IMHO what makes the revised class work. Spell combat changes are great too. The flow from 1st to 3rd level feels natural. Spell pool abilities I am not a fan of, as they seem like too much, but I have said that in more detail in related threads.
Over all though its much more solid class, one I would jump at playing.
What kind of EKs are you all making? If an EK can cast 9th level spells, then it looks something like Wizard 8/Fighter 2/EK 10. Maybe some minor alterations, but it can't have more than 12 levels total between the martial class and EK if you want 9th level spells.
If that's the case, your BAB isn't going to be higher than 16. And sure, while EKs have d10 hit dice, Wizards and Sorcerers have d6. With their d8 hit dice, and the ability to put 20 full levels of favored class bonus into HP, the Magus equals and could possibly pull ahead of an EK build.
Also, while the EK is wasting feats and swift actions to be able to cast spells in any sort of armor, the Magus is casting without any problems in heavy armor by 13th level, and spending his swift actions to give himself massive boosts to attack and damage, hasting himself, or using metamagic without any costs.
In my opinion the Magus looks a lot more fun to play than the EK.
Indeed. Also, the EK doesn't have all the nifty tricks the magus does to cast in armor, or use spells during a full attack (without a crit, that is).
I haven't had - and won't have, for a week or two, sadly - the ability to give the class a good scrubbing and in depth look, but from what I've glanced over, it's really seen a big improvement.
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What kind of EKs are you all making? If an EK can cast 9th level spells, then it looks something like Wizard 8/Fighter 2/EK 10. Maybe some minor alterations, but it can't have more than 12 levels total between the martial class and EK if you want 9th level spells.
If that's the case, your BAB isn't going to be higher than 16. And sure, while EKs have d10 hit dice, Wizards and Sorcerers have d6. With their d8 hit dice, and the ability to put 20 full levels of favored class bonus into HP, the Magus equals and could possibly pull ahead of an EK build.
Also, while the EK is wasting feats and swift actions to be able to cast spells in any sort of armor, the Magus is casting without any problems in heavy armor by 13th level, and spending his swift actions to give himself massive boosts to attack and damage, hasting himself, or using metamagic without any costs.
In my opinion the Magus looks a lot more fun to play than the EK.
The EK just casts the usual SoDs. He's literally a caster in armor. Due to action economy, and not having most of the fighter feats, he's actually not very good at melee. BAB is not enough, and multiple buffs take too long. Except he has more armor, more HP. He has less spells because of the fighter level, and no free feats. EK does not get the higher level wizard school tricks. But a higher levels, he still gets those level 9 spells.
In PF, EK isn't necessarily a good build, but in 3.x, it was pretty good. Also, EK being 1 level behind in casting could be a major issue as well depending on how challenging the campaign is.
I forsee magus/EK builds as being standard. Magus' high level stuff seems kinda meh. So getting more BAB is probably the way to go.
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It looks like an improvement over the round 1 build, but I can't summon the energy to look into it more in depth for a simple reason - it's not a class I am at all interested in.
I can only hope Paizo will relent on their "no more base classes" statement and create an actual arcane fighter ( analogous to the paladin and ranger ) in a future publication.
It looks like an improvement over the round 1 build, but I can't summon the energy to look into it more in depth for a simple reason - it's not a class I am at all interested in.
I can only hope Paizo will relent on their "no more base classes" statement and create an actual arcane fighter ( analogous to the paladin and ranger ) in a future publication.
I completely agree, but it is what it is.
The Magus still feels like he's trying to do two things poorly, but at the same time. It also feels a little over-complex as well, the arcane pool ability seems like it would be a chore to keep track of. Oh well, I'll just never like the class so there is no use in making any (un)insightful statements about it. It's better overall, it's just not interesting.
You know what tells me this class is pretty well balanced? Just about the same number of people arguing the point from either side. 3/3.5/3.75 seems to have a weird balance issue. It really isn't about whether something really breaks a game, but about the general acceptance of something. If everybody likes it, then it is usually broken because it is something too good to pass up. If nobody likes it, then it is too weak or powerful. If there is a balanced argument about it, then it is about right.
You know what tells me this class is pretty well balanced? Just about the same number of people arguing the point from either side. 3/3.5/3.75 seems to have a weird balance issue. It really isn't about whether something really breaks a game, but about the general acceptance of something. If everybody likes it, then it is usually broken because it is something too good to pass up. If nobody likes it, then it is too weak or powerful. If there is a balanced argument about it, then it is about right.
Although this is about the magus i am going to disagree with this statement.
Usually when a class is Solid but not breaking it is not even really talked about and only casually brought up (inquisitor comes to mind, ranger, paladin). they are usually just described as x ability is ish but y ability is clutch and then no one argues because that is undeniable.
onto the magus.
I think the class is way too complicated and messy for a Pathfinder class. Pathfinder's classes are typically very easy (summoner exception and i dont want to see another that complicated) to play as far as keeping track of abilities.
I understand this is an advanced class but having abilities like a combat expertise for intelligence modifier being the cap to the number of points you can add to your concentration check and subtract that from the attack roll?
that just seems yuck to me, why not make it like power attack, combat expertise, and deadly aim where it is a static minus and a concentration bonus that boons with level.
With the arcane pool granting weapons magic that is a great idea, I like it. But with 1 min a level and low bonus* it just seems wonky to me. why not give it like a rage similiar round based magic boost based on the points you spend. would match more with the original system instead of stemming this alone with its own ability (to new player: yeah the magic weapon works kinda like a rage) which makes it much easier to explain.
why can they not add the magic enhancement to armor as well? they have low hp for a meleer and will be swinging a full attack alot if they can help it so you might as well give them an AC boost in their armor enhancement.
* I say low bonus because a magus is going to have a lot of angles to cover when it comes to magic equipment because they have heavy armor, weapons, and the ability to cast spells, wield wands, staffs, rods, ect. not counting other standard gear. I look at this ability like a wealth saver (your +2 short sword will be fine at 17th when you can just give it vorpal)
I think it needs cleaning up and a few modifications.
IMPO
You know what tells me this class is pretty well balanced? Just about the same number of people arguing the point from either side. 3/3.5/3.75 seems to have a weird balance issue. It really isn't about whether something really breaks a game, but about the general acceptance of something. If everybody likes it, then it is usually broken because it is something too good to pass up. If nobody likes it, then it is too weak or powerful. If there is a balanced argument about it, then it is about right.Although this is about the magus i am going to disagree with this statement.
Usually when a class is Solid but not breaking it is not even really talked about and only casually brought up (inquisitor comes to mind, ranger, paladin). they are usually just described as x ability is ish but y ability is clutch and then no one argues because that is undeniable.
onto the magus.
I think the class is way too complicated and messy for a Pathfinder class. Pathfinder's classes are typically very easy (summoner exception and i dont want to see another that complicated) to play as far as keeping track of abilities.
I understand this is an advanced class but having abilities like a combat expertise for intelligence modifier being the cap to the number of points you can add to your concentration check and subtract that from the attack roll?
that just seems yuck to me, why not make it like power attack, combat expertise, and deadly aim where it is a static minus and a concentration bonus that boons with level.
With the arcane pool granting weapons magic that is a great idea, I like it. But with 1 min a level and low bonus* it just seems wonky to me. why not give it like a rage similiar round based magic boost based on the points you spend. would match more with the original system instead of stemming this alone with its own ability (to new player: yeah the magic weapon works kinda like a rage) which makes it much easier to explain.
why can they not add the magic enhancement to armor...
I disagree with you on the arcana pool. If you rework the enhancement bonus to use 1 every round like Rage, you have to reballance any abilities that use the arcana pool off of the new resource drain you have. This would either be a serious nerf from reducing the effectiveness of the weapon enhancement relative to things like extra spells, or cause more complication as those costs are now much harder to derive and keep the current ballance.
As for the combat casting in spell combat, giving them a scaling bonus would severely hurt it when it is needed most, and make it too much when you need it less. At low levels you need the most bonus to cast defensively. At arround level 15, you are more or less guaranteed to cast defensively. No one would ever use this bennefit at high levels, but it would be gimped at lower ones. The way it is, they may take a -1 or 2 to hit at higher levels to guarantee their spell, but no one would take a -5 if it scaled like power attack. On the other hand, when you have a 40-60% fail chance at level 1 and you want a higher bonus, you would be limmitted to 5%, instead of getting up to 15% from your 16 int.
This is such an improvement over v1.
This could easily become my new favorite class.
Anyone (paizo) contemplating archetypes yet? Or is it too early?
I really like V.2 of the Magus. If what makes the book isn't too different from this I will definitely play it.
valid points
I understand the mechanics are nerf him quite a bit if they are changed the way I stated but instead of making them nerfed (for instance if it is magus level instead of 1/2 and if you can take a feat to boon the ki pool) then they become viable.
My only point was the whole combat expertise with spells up to your int bonus is not reflective of other classes mechanics wise. In lamens terms its a new weird way to keep track of bonuses.
I just think it could use some cleaning up mechanically, the overall ability is pretty good.
As for the magic weapons enhancement. I like it, I really really do, but the arcane pool as it is set up to use it is a little weird.
You can add any bonus up to a minute by spending 1 point and you can only do it to your weapon.
I think it should be flexible enough to expand to your armor too
I'm very pleased with the V2 Magus....and it's definitely becoming one of my favorite classes.
I'm looking foreword to playtesting the new version this coming weekend.
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Even in this round Magus is weaker than bard, maybe not in melee, but bard il not selfish like magus is, and for knowledges, group buffs, and spell list, i continue to prefer bard...my two cents
I like this version of the magus better, but I'm starting to think it's still underpowered. Lack of buff spells really bothers me.
while this is a BIG improvement over the round one class. I still feel as though the class is just a pass when sitting next to the bard or any Med BAB class.
my 2cp is 1.Make him a full BAB and d10 HD
2.Focus the casting on buff spells and few damage spells and a cap of level 4
3.keep the arcane pool and abilities i feel that they are balanced with the new full BAB
Director of Games
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I think there are some folks who really want to see this become a buff class, and that is just not in the cards. I am looking into some self buffs, but in a very limited scope. I do not want this class to step on the bard more than it already does in some regards. The focus here is mostly on flashy spells and damaging spells, this is quite by design.
Just a note... please continue...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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I played the new Magus some twenty hours (two ten-hours sessions) and I am very pleased with him - with one addition: I was allowed to use trait from Monte Cook's Iron Heroes called Weapon Bond. Said trait gives you proficiency with one weapon and allows you to get bonuses to attack and damage from the ability other than Strength with that type of weapon only. In the case of Magus, his Intelligence bonus made a huge difference in melee and the whole experience was very different. I think that something like that can be interesting as class ability. Let's call it "Edge" or something.
I think there are some folks who really want to see this become a buff class, and that is just not in the cards. I am looking into some self buffs, but in a very limited scope. I do not want this class to step on the bard more than it already does in some regards. The focus here is mostly on flashy spells and damaging spells, this is quite by design.
Just a note... please continue...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I would hope to see a possible way to make the evocation school a little shinier for these guys in battle competition more than self buffs.
Although I think self enchanting the armor along with his weapon might help with the people whining for buffs, plus it can make them last longer in melees
just my thoughts Jason :) good job so far.
thank you Jason for that little inside scoop on the design point of view. but i have to say that the class just feels like a different way to get to EK.
I am completely in love with this class, with one exception. I will fight Knowledge Pool to the ends of the Earth.
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I'm actually liking the class more the more I look at it. Taking the Maneuver Mastery Arcana helps to mitigate the lower-than-full BAB a little, and taking the Empowered Magic Arcana helps to mitigate the less-than-full-caster power levels a little. In neither case are you threatening the full-BAB or full-caster classes, but it does follow the fluff of the Magus class quite well, and allows you to keep pace if you play the guy with a bit of thought. I have to agree with 'Rixx on the Knowledge Pool though, and would much prefer that space on the level progression taken up by something (anything!) else. The Spell Blending Arcana is, of course, great for filling the 'holes' in your guy's spell list, if you feel he has any, and the fact that the Wand Wielder Arcana combined with Spell Combat and a magic staff finally allows a 'mage' who can fight well with his iconic weapon is something I've been looking for in the game for a while.
After reading all the posts and threads here, I have to say it looks pretty good overall. Some further minor modifications to the wording and fluff may still be needed, but overall it sounds and looks like a reasonably balanced class, provided people actually read and understand all of the pertinent rules in the core book. I like the arcane pool points and the various uses for them; the fact they can do things wizards can't is a good thing in my book. Wizards and clerics are great classes, but other divine and arcane casting classes should not feel compelled to stick to the mechanics laid out in those two classes; they need to have their own little niche, even if the rules for them aren't quite as concise and new player friendly as the more traditional classes.
thank you Jason for that little inside scoop on the design point of view. but i have to say that the class just feels like a different way to get to EK.
Maybe one way to counteract that is to load a little more onto the later Magus levels -- basically at the point at which you might otherwise start swapping EK levels in.
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I love the magus. The current version is a lot of paperwork, and I hate paperwork, but I'm glad to see that the arcana were improved. Burning spells for +to hit or +AC for one round simply wasn't worth it; almost every arcana got the boost it needed to be relevant.
v1 magus was working in the game I'm in. I'm eager to see how v2 magus will perform with the same build.
thank you Jason for that little inside scoop on the design point of view. but i have to say that the class just feels like a different way to get to EK.Maybe one way to counteract that is to load a little more onto the later Magus levels -- basically at the point at which you might otherwise start swapping EK levels in.
i agree in full with this! I am on my way right now to play my Magus right now in a pathfinder only game. i do have t say that we house ruled it a full BAB class no change to HD and the GM and group are not seeing any problems so far (L10 magus)
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I think there are some folks who really want to see this become a buff class, and that is just not in the cards. I am looking into some self buffs, but in a very limited scope. I do not want this class to step on the bard more than it already does in some regards. The focus here is mostly on flashy spells and damaging spells, this is quite by design.
Just a note... please continue...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I'm with you 100%. A few buffs are good for this class to make up for BAB and protection issues but it should not turn into a better version of the Bard. Heroism would be real nice, though. The Inquisitor can cast it.
One thing that the Magus lacks is a larger selection of touch and ranged touch attacks that lack saves. I suspect that will be addressed in the spell section of Ultimate Magic.
The Arcane Pool might need to be expanded somewhat. 2+1/every other level + Int might be better. Right now it seems that the Magus is limited in everything, spell prepared, BAB, AC, and so forth. If the focus is on the ability to cast plenty of flashy spells, a couple extra Arcana points to recover an extra spell or two would be valuable.
In the Arena-type playtest I'm running a Level 8 Magus though, I'm down to only 2 points after 4 fights and I haven't even had to fight a CR 8 yet. I'm also getting low on spells, though I probably have enough to get through the day with the help of a couple Pearls of Power.
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Having good self buffs do not affect how a bard plays. It's like saying clerics are stepping on the toes of the bard because they have good self buffs. It makes no sense. Bards buff everybody with their abilities.
If having these buffs are so unbalancing, make them so the magus can only cast them on himself.
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Having good self buffs do not affect how a bard plays. It's like saying clerics are stepping on the toes of the bard because they have good self buffs. It makes no sense. Bards buff everybody with their abilities.
That's a straw man and an obvious one. Clerics are divine full casters so not really comparable to Bards. Bards and Magi share caster and BAB progression as well as both being arcane casters. The comparison between these two classes is more apt. In this respect, replicating all or most of the buffs on the Bard list while giving the Magus a bunch of evocation seems to step on toes.
If having these buffs are so unbalancing, make them so the magus can only cast them on himself.
Maybe, but I'm uncomfortable making up rules like that that change how some spells work for the Magus in fundamental ways.
thank you Jason for that little inside scoop on the design point of view. but i have to say that the class just feels like a different way to get to EK.
That's a feature, not a bug! :D
Not a lot of practical comment here (haven't been in a position to do any serious playtesting), just a big ol' "Thank you!" to the Paizo team for building a class I've wanted for years. :)
-The Gneech
Make him a full BAB and d10 HD . . .[spell] cap of level 4
That's a completely different class, but one I'd be happy to see someday.
I think there are some folks who really want to see this become a buff class, and that is just not in the cards. I am looking into some self buffs, but in a very limited scope. I do not want this class to step on the bard more than it already does in some regards. The focus here is mostly on flashy spells and damaging spells, this is quite by design.
I very much agree that Magus should not be a buffing class. There are a number of existing classes that cast buff spells on the group as their primary or secondary task. Adding self buffs to the Magus would step on some of those toes.
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I very much agree that Magus should not be a buffing class. There are a number of existing classes that cast buff spells on the group as their primary or secondary task. Adding self buffs to the Magus would step on some of those toes.
I think the reason people are wanting the guy to be able to buff himself is he's simply not adequate at combat. It's the same reason people are asking for him to have better BAB and a d10HD. He's not a very good fighter.
I don't think he needs the full improvement of a d10HD and Full BAB though. An artificial BAB increase along the lines of the monk would do the guy wonders. As you know, the monk is treated as though he has full BAB when flurrying. I think the Magus would flourish with something similar, but slightly different.
I'm not sure the Magus needs the extra attacks, or the CMB/CMD that would come with a full BAB. But he definitely needs the bonus to hit.
Here's my Idea:
Now he has the to-hit values of a full BAB fighter, but without all the other perks.
As for the Banes Comment:
1.Make him a full BAB and d10 HD
2.Focus the casting on buff spells and few damage spells and a cap of level 4.
I could see a class like this. It's basically Ranger or Paladin, but arcane. Maybe they'll put it in a future book. Personally I like the Idea of the Magus being a full Gish, and I'd be perfectly happy seeing what you described as an archetype on the Paladin or Ranger, where they swap out the spell list, and change some of the class features around. I wouldn't mind seeing spell combat working with combat styles. Hell, if Paizo doesn't do it, I may make the archetype myself for my games...
I am completely in love with this class, with one exception. I will fight Knowledge Pool to the ends of the Earth.
I am right there with you, my metal friend.
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I think the reason people are wanting the guy to be able to buff himself is he's simply not adequate at combat. It's the same reason people are asking for him to have better BAB and a d10HD. He's not a very good fighter.
Where are you getting this? Not adequate in combat? I'm not against theoryhammer but when it conflicts with playtest results I can't get behind it.
From what I've done and seen from others putting the class through its paces, it does decent damage, hits with regularity, and has fun doing it.
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I think the reason people are wanting the guy to be able to buff himself is he's simply not adequate at combat. It's the same reason people are asking for him to have better BAB and a d10HD. He's not a very good fighter.Where are you getting this? Not adequate in combat? I'm not against theoryhammer but when it conflicts with playtest results I can't get behind it.
From what I've done and seen from others putting the class through its paces, it does decent damage, hits with regularity, and has fun doing it.
I was referring to something I saw a bunch of other people pointing out. Arcane accuracy as a frequently necessary point-sink for points because the Magus' to-hit bonus is not very good for a frontline fighter and arcane accuracy has such a short duration.
As you point out, it's definitely all theory from me at this point. Our games have died down due to exam season, and they won't be starting back up until mid-january near the end of the playtest. I definitely like the class though, and it's a huge improvement over v1.I was mostly proposing a possible solution to the three following statements I've been hearing from people on here.
1. "Magus needs full BAB and d10 HD."
2. "Magus needs better buff spells."
3. "Magus needs more spell pool points because his to hit isn't great so we need to use arcane accuracy alot."
A boost to-hit would make him need buffs less in general, and would be less drastic than full BAB and a d10. You wouldn't need arcane accuracy as much, and could spend those points on other things, and you wouldn't need self-buffs as much either.
That's all I was trying to say.
I think the reason people are wanting the guy to be able to buff himself is he's simply not adequate at combat. It's the same reason people are asking for him to have better BAB and a d10HD. He's not a very good fighter.Where are you getting this? Not adequate in combat? I'm not against theoryhammer but when it conflicts with playtest results I can't get behind it.
From what I've done and seen from others putting the class through its paces, it does decent damage, hits with regularity, and has fun doing it.
You are absolutely right YD.
If this was still the first version, than I might agree with Darkholme, but having seen this new version, and having built several characters, I can say it does NOT need full base attack bonus or d10 HD. Making such a change would make it squash the fighter and other martial classes by default, which is not something we need or want.
Shisio Dafoe (20th-level human abjurant champion) - downloadable PDF character sheet
The below notes are for a 20th-level character. As such, the numbers may never realistically occur in most normal games. However, I still think it is an excellent example of how a magus operates and of how much they can accomplish in a single round. A magus half that level can still perform extremely well as a member of an adventuring party. If you scroll to the end of this spoiler note (after reading it of course), I have a much more realistic 10th-level magus build you can look at too.
Round by Round Tactics (melee)
Prior to Combat) Research enemy for strengths and weaknesses. Cast greater invisibility (or fire shield [cold] for those that can see invisible), heroism, greater magic weapon, magic circle against evil, overland flight, shield, and unseen servant (in order of longest duration to shortest). Cast intensified shocking grasp into scythe via spell storing. Use wall of ice or similar spell to separate chosen targets from their allies, making the enemy more manageable.
Estimated Damage: None.
Round 1) Charge into melee, smacking target with a spellstriked freezing sphere and power attacking longsword (full). Release intensified shocking grasp into target if attack lands (none). Cast quickened cone of cold on as many enemies as possible (swift).
Estimated Damage: 162.5 (single enemy); 52.5 (secondary enemies)
Round 2) Activate boots of speed (free); make 4 attacks with power attacking longsword (full); Cast a quickened cone of cold via wand wielder (swift action); 5-ft. step to new location (free) and use unseen servant to distract enemy from your true location.
Estimated Damage: 162 (single); 52.5 (secondaries)
Round 3) If enemy is still alive, enhance longsword with flaming, icy burst, keen, and shocking abilities (swift); cast intensified maximized cone of cold via wand wielder (joint action); full attack/spell combat (full) with 4 more attacks; 5-ft. step to new location (free) and use unseen servant to distract enemy from your true location.
Estimated Damage: 271.5 (single); 120 (secondaries)
Round 4) If enemy is proving difficult to hit, use arcane accuracy and/or true strike to make attacks more effective. If they just have lots of hit points, continue full attacks with enhanced longsword along with intensified maximized cone of cold followed by quickened cone of cold (or other spell if cold doesn't seem to work). Repeat full attack in following rounds along with choice attack/buff spells.
Estimated Damage: 222.5 (single); 172.5 (secondaries)
Round 5+) If enemy appears more annoyed than hurt at this point, consider teleporting to a safe area and reconsider strategy.
Round by Round Tactics (ranged)
Prior to combat) as above. Initiate combat from long range with intensified fireballs.
Estimated Damage: None.
Round 1) Activate boots of speed (free); enhance bow with flaming, icy burst, and shocking burst abilities (swift); make 4 attacks with deadly aimed bow (full). If facing swarms of enemies, use intensified fireball wand instead.
Estimated Damage: 140 (bow, single); 52.5 (fireball, secondaries)
Round 2) Repeat step 1 each round until enemy is within charge range. If hitting proves to be difficult, use arcane accuracy/true strike as necessary. If enemy closes to within charge range, revert to melee tactics above.
Estimated Damage: Higher than round 2 due to increased hit percentage if using bow.
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Note that the above character sheet uses a scythe. Most magus won't use a two-handed weapon due to its incompatibility with Spell Combat. Thus, for the purposes of this example, I switched the scythe out for a much more appropriate longsword. All the numbers above reflect this change, despite the character sheet being a little different. Nothing else was changed.
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Guymelef Dilandou (10th-level human storm lord) - downloadable PDF character sheet
Round by Round Tactics (melee)
Prior to Combat) Research enemy for strengths and weaknesses. Cast enlarge person, greater invisibility (or fire shield [cold] for those that can see invisible), heroism, and greater magic weapon, shield, and unseen servant (in order of longest duration to shortest).
Estimated Damage: None.
Round 1) Enhance longsword with spell pool, adding flaming, frost, and shock. Charge into melee, smacking target with a spellstriked intensified shocking grasp and power attacking longsword (full).
Estimated Damage: 67.5 (single enemy)
Round 2) Activate boots of speed (free); Cast chill touch on longsword via spellstrike (joint action); Make 3 attacks with power attacking longsword (full/spell combat); 5-ft. step to new location (free) and use unseen servant to distract enemy from your true location.
Estimated Damage: 99 plus 3 Str damage (single)
Round 3) If enemy is still alive, full attack again (full) and cast lightning bolt via wand wielder (joint action); 5-ft. step to new location (free) and use unseen servant to distract enemy from your true location.
Estimated Damage: 134 (single); 35 (secondaries)
Round 4) If enemy is proving difficult to hit, use arcane accuracy and/or true strike to make attacks more effective. If they just have lots of hit points, continue full attacks with enhanced longsword along with lightning bolts (or different spells if target resists energy). Repeat full attack in following rounds along with choice attack/buff spells.
Estimated Damage: 134 (single); 35 (secondaries)
Round 5+) If enemy appears more annoyed than hurt at this point, consider retreating to a safe area and reconsider strategy.
Round by Round Tactics (ranged)
Prior to combat) as above. Initiate combat from long range with fireballs.
Estimated Damage: 35 (multiple targets.
Round 1) Activate boots of speed (free); enhance bow with flaming, frost, and shock abilities (swift); make 3 attacks with bow (full). If facing swarms of enemies, use fireballs instead.
Estimated Damage: 66 (bow, single); 35 (fireball, secondaries)
Round 2) Repeat step 1 each round until enemy is within charge range. If hitting proves to be difficult, use arcane accuracy/true strike as necessary. If enemy closes to within charge range, revert to melee tactics as shown above.
Estimated Damage: Higher than round 2 due to increased hit percentage if using bow.
***
The magus is very powerful and extremely adaptable.
In short, if you can't make the magus work as written, you don't know what you're doing.
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If this was still the first version, than I might agree with Darkholme, but having seen this new version, and having built several characters, I can say it does NOT need full base attack bonus or d10 HD. Making such a change would make it squash the fighter and other martial classes by default, which is not something we need or want.
Okay. I guess I was wrong. My information came solely from a read-through of the class, and reading much of this forum, and many comments I saw others post (which I took to be more accurate than they actually are, apparently).
My bad. Anyways, I'll definitely be buying this book when it comes out.
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There is a fair bit of rampant speculation going about. Some of it brings up very good points but some of it is based on what people think is needed rather than what is needed. My arena playtests have shown a Magus doing quite well without ever using Arcane Accuracy. The level 8 version was undone by insufficiently high saves as opposed to any issue of accuracy or damage output.
There is a fair bit of rampant speculation going about. Some of it brings up very good points but some of it is based on what people think is needed rather than what is needed. My arena playtests have shown a Magus doing quite well without ever using Arcane Accuracy. The level 8 version was undone by insufficiently high saves as opposed to any issue of accuracy or damage output.
Would you mind playtesting two of my magus builds in your arena?
Guymelef Dilandou (10th-level human storm lord)
Shisio Dafoe (20th-level human abjurant champion)
I really like V.2 of the Magus. If what makes the book isn't too different from this I will definitely play it.
Overall, I agree.