High level touch spells.
More direct damage of elements other than fire over a decent level range.
High level buff spells.
Combat-useful divinations (like the prescience line for psions)
Interesting illusions.
A few more spells of the Universal school.
the assassin spell list all of those great gems four lvls of pure tool spell hate
Fireball and Ice Storms are AoE Spells, the Orbs are single target, Fireball/IceStorm needs no attack throw, the Orbs need ranged touch attack.
You compare two total different spells here. Ever see what damage a Fireball can create?
Level 10 Fireball into charging ogre horde, hits 10 of them = 150d6 dmg
Orb of Fire: hits one, evenutally daze him and 10d6 dmg
I don't think the Orbs are broken, they do the same amount of damage to single target as same level spells. But instead of a Save, they need a ranged touch.
And whoever throw 40ft diameter Fireballs at a single target shoots cannonballs to birds... (until it's a very big bird^^)
Fireball and Ice Storms are AoE Spells, the Orbs are single target, Fireball/IceStorm needs no attack throw, the Orbs need ranged touch attack.
You compare two total different spells here. Ever see what damage a Fireball can create?
Level 10 Fireball into charging ogre horde, hits 10 of them = 150d6 dmg
Orb of Fire: hits one, evenutally daze him and 10d6 dmgI don't think the Orbs are broken, they do the same amount of damage to single target as same level spells. But instead of a Save, they need a ranged touch.
And whoever throw 40ft diameter Fireballs at a single target shoots cannonballs to birds... (until it's a very big bird^^)
The likely hood of hitting 10 ogres with one fireball is very slim.
also reflex saves reduce the damage to half.
Lastly, a ranged touch is much much better than a reflex save because other than a monk most creatures touch AC's are ridiculously low.
Also the Dazed rocks.
Basically the spells could be spammed like no other on BBEGs with no spell resistance caster level check.
essentially a high level mindflayer in 3.5 got no SR, an ish fortitude save, and ish hit points.
not saying the spell is God but to say that fireball can do what you said at its level is not very accurate. by comparison it appears orbs were much better as they were.
plus conjuration? lame.
I too miss the Slide spells. I'd like to see more battlefield control and movement type spells; both offensive and defensive.
The likely hood of hitting 10 ogres with one fireball is very slim.also reflex saves reduce the damage to half.
Lastly, a ranged touch is much much better than a reflex save because other than a monk most creatures touch AC's are ridiculously low.
Also the Dazed rocks.
Basically the spells could be spammed like no other on BBEGs with no spell resistance caster level check.
essentially a high level mindflayer in 3.5 got no SR, an ish fortitude save, and ish hit points.
not saying the spell is God but to say that fireball can do what you said at its level is not very accurate. by comparison it appears orbs were much better as they were.
plus conjuration? lame.
This. Exactly. SR: Yes, Evocation and keeping level four? Perfectly fine.
This. Exactly. SR: Yes, Evocation and keeping level four? Perfectly fine.
The likely hood of hitting 10 ogres with one fireball is very slim.also reflex saves reduce the damage to half.
Lastly, a ranged touch is much much better than a reflex save because other than a monk most creatures touch AC's are ridiculously low.
Also the Dazed rocks.
Basically the spells could be spammed like no other on BBEGs with no spell resistance caster level check.
essentially a high level mindflayer in 3.5 got no SR, an ish fortitude save, and ish hit points.
not saying the spell is God but to say that fireball can do what you said at its level is not very accurate. by comparison it appears orbs were much better as they were.
plus conjuration? lame.
Finally someone who agrees with me.
Part of the problem is that twenty years of new spells have often gone to the wrong school, mage armour is pretty clearly an abjuration (it prevents getting hit) but since the force is "conjured up" its a conjuration? When virtually every other force spell is either an evocation (those that damage) or an abjuration (those that block). Frankly force as a material shouldn't ever be conjured IMO. If you look quite a few spells have been put in conjuration that should have gone elsewhere. This is a legacy problem in my mind.
Also I long ago ruled that all the Orb spells were ranged attacks not ranged touches, that seriously reined them in but left them as an anti SR resource. Not a great solution but one that allowed them to function at low levels without stealling the thunder of high level casters evocations.
Also I'd liketo see Ironthunder Horn brought to Pathfinder, although Drunkard's Breath is almost as good.
Also I really Liked Light of Lunya/Venya/Mercuria, those were cool spells that managed to do alot without being broken.
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Another vote for Assay Resistance or something like it here. I understand that spell resistance is supposed to help balance things at higher levels, but it does it's job a little too well beyond level 13 or so.
There are really only two schools of magic that often have to worry about SR: Necromancy and Evocation. Most Necromancy spells are save-or-suck and most Evocations are direct-damage spells. (Note that I said "most" not "all.")
With Necromancy spells, SR prevents creatures from being immediately crippled with negative status effects, but bear in mind that many of these spells also allow a saving throw. Most Necromancies are avoided with a Fortitude save, which most creatures worth crippling have as their highest save (fighter-types, dragons, giants, pretty much anything that doesn't cast spells). So now the party wizard not only has to burn feats on Spell Penetration and STILL hope to roll decently high, but he also has to hope that the creature he targets fails its save as well! Most Necromancy spells do not have a "partial" effect, it's all or nothing. Also, many monsters (undead, constructs, and, to a lesser extent, elementals) are immune to the effects of many Necromancy spells.
With Evocation, the vast majority of monsters in the higher levels have resistance to one or more energy types, often including an outright IMMUNITY to one type or another. Now, granted, a wizard can (attempt) to prepare for this by selecting a specialized group of spells in an effort to target the weakest resistance of the monsters in question but now look at what you're asking!
1.) Have spells prepped to target weakest energy resistance.
2.) Succeed in caster level check to beat SR.
3.) Succeed on ranged touch attack OR hope that monster fails save.
Now, fortunately, Evocations often feature partial saves when they are allowed and Evasion/Improved Evasion isn't THAT common (and the baddies that do have it are prime targets for ranged touch spells) but even still you're asking for a "perfect storm" of luck in order for a spellcaster to even approach his full usefulness in monster encounters above level 13.
Of course, if your campaigns feature nothing but humanoids and beasts... well... your mileage may vary. In my experience, the vast majority of enemies in the 13-20 range are outsders, elementals, dragons, and constructs with the occasional undead.
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Part of the problem is that twenty years of new spells have often gone to the wrong school, mage armour is pretty clearly an abjuration (it prevents getting hit) but since the force is "conjured up" its a conjuration? When virtually every other force spell is either an evocation (those that damage) or an abjuration (those that block). Frankly force as a material shouldn't ever be conjured IMO. If you look quite a few spells have been put in conjuration that should have gone elsewhere. This is a legacy problem in my mind.
I agree with you 100%. If resilient sphere and wall of force are Evocations, mage armor should be too.
If you allow Assay Spell Resistance, you should allow a melee feat saying "the PC has +10 to hit for 6 rounds a day".
Does this feat seems balanced to you? ;)
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If you allow Assay Spell Resistance, you should allow a melee feat saying "the PC has +10 to hit for 6 rounds a day".
Does this feat seems balanced to you? ;)
I've never read Assay Spell Resistance, but as for that melee feat... change it to "The PC has +10 to hit to 6 individual attacks a day with his chosen weapon", give it the prereq of Greater Weapon Focus, and I'd let it in my games :)
I would like to see Bone Shapeing spell.... like Shape wood, shape stone.
Would like to see this spell for both Druid, Cleric, and Wizard.
Cleric = Because they deal with the undead if evil.
Wizard = Because they know all, and mess with necromancer
Druid = Because druids want to use the bones of dead animal to make weapons, armor, and other things, so as not to waste the animal carcase. (Many planes people use bone, for building houses or equipment, were wood is scares).
4th level would be a good spell slot for cleric and Druid... Wizard 5th.
Wood Shape = 2nd
Stone Shape = 3rd (wizard 4th)
Bone Shape = 4th (wizard 5th)
Oh well thats my request.
I would like to see Bone Shapeing spell.... like Shape wood, shape stone.
Would like to see this spell for both Druid, Cleric, and Wizard.
Cleric = Because they deal with the undead if evil.
Wizard = Because they know all, and mess with necromancer
Druid = Because druids want to use the bones of dead animal to make weapons, armor, and other things, so as not to waste the animal carcase. (Many planes people use bone, for building houses or equipment, were wood is scares).4th level would be a good spell slot for cleric and Druid... Wizard 5th.
Wood Shape = 2nd
Stone Shape = 3rd (wizard 4th)
Bone Shape = 4th (wizard 5th)Oh well thats my request.
i kinda like the sound of those.
A version of the summon monster spells for undead. Basically summon undead 1-9. Also alternate summon monster lists. One for a demonologist, one for an infernalist, and a list for celestial creatures.
Also a single target 1d6 per level (5d6 max) elemental bolt of some sort at first level.
a pathfinder version of this old spell:
Chromatic Orb
(...)Used to be my favourite, hehe :p
<OOC> Are you Greg from Santes? </OOC>
a single target 1d6 per level (5d6 max) elemental bolt of some sort at first level.
Hell to the F yeah! I love single target pure damaging touch attack spells. Why control it on the battlefield when you can just kill it outright? :-P
I would like to see Bone Shapeing spell.... like Shape wood, shape stone.
Would like to see this spell for both Druid, Cleric, and Wizard.
Cleric = Because they deal with the undead if evil.
Wizard = Because they know all, and mess with necromancer
Druid = Because druids want to use the bones of dead animal to make weapons, armor, and other things, so as not to waste the animal carcase. (Many planes people use bone, for building houses or equipment, were wood is scares).4th level would be a good spell slot for cleric and Druid... Wizard 5th.
Wood Shape = 2nd
Stone Shape = 3rd (wizard 4th)
Bone Shape = 4th (wizard 5th)Oh well thats my request.
While i am thinking about it, Would also love to see a Transmute Metal to Bone spell..... So we have a reference source on how Bone armor and Bone weapons would work.
I really would like to have bone daggers, bone arrow heads, and bone swords for my druid to use....... so i can get away from using metal all together.
<OOC> Are you Greg from Santes? </OOC>a pathfinder version of this old spell:
Chromatic Orb
(...)Used to be my favourite, hehe :p
No, I'm Torfinn from Norway
Wall of Sharks (though when cast out of water, it quickly becomes the highly ineffectual Pile of Sharks)
Now that would be an awesome summon spell
Pile of sharksSchool: Conj Level: 6 Druid, sorc/wiz 7
Casting time: 1 round
Components: V, S
Range: Close
Target: one creature
Durration: Sharks Con score
Description: You summon 2d6 sharks in the same square (or squares) of the tageted creature. and they begin grappling the target.
yeah...i'd use it
Anti-magic field and dead magic zones are broken too.
The orb spells just summon something that can't be magic resisted.
The Orb spells(like the old ones but 1 level higher spell)
More force based damage spells
Wall spells(bone, snakes, web, shadow, light, positive energy, negative energy, wood, sand, glass, good, evil, chaos, law, etc.)
More elemtal spells
Polymorph spells for Fey, monstrous humaniod, vermin forms
Specilized summoning spells(fey, magical beasts, plants, outsiders, etc.)
Necromancy spells that use positive energy
Honestly in 3.5 i adored the orb spells because of the very fact that they were conjuration, meaning you could effect golems with them and that is the most frustrating thing for a caster:
"Well apparently this area has golems and beholders with anti magic, congratulation wizard, here is your crossbow, welcome to being a crappy 1st level ranger."
that is specifically why you need them in the game. i could see reflex for half but not SR. and if you make them Evocation wizards get there Bonus damage.