Can a character ready an action to attack a character and move out of the way of a charge with their 5-foot step for that action.
No.
If you ready an attack against a charging foe you indeed get your attack off before the charge is completed, but it is assumed to happen somewhat simultaneous with the charge. Thus,1) guy A gets his readied attack off, 2) guy B completes the charge, 3) guy A can then take the 5' step.
It is true that the 5' step free action happens immediately after the readied attack, but the readied attack is contingent on the charge being completed in the first place. The only way the readying character can avoid the charge in this situation is if his attack incapacitates the charging opponent.
I disagree with the Grandfather. As far as I know, what your GM did was legal. The readied action interupted your charge and the entire readied action happens before your attack.
Can a character ready an action to attack a character and move out of the way of a charge with their 5-foot step for that action.
No.
If you ready an attack against a charging foe you indeed get your attack off before the charge is completed, but it is assumed to happen somewhat simultaneous with the charge. Thus,1) guy A gets his readied attack off, 2) guy B completes the charge, 3) guy A can then take the 5' step.
It is true that the 5' step free action happens immediately after the readied attack, but the readied attack is contingent on the charge being completed in the first place. The only way the readying character can avoid the charge in this situation is if his attack incapacitates the charging opponent.
The grandfather is somewhat right about this, with the basic game mechanics. You cannot ready an action and include a 5' step in that readying.
The reason hold the line + sidestep work is they bend the game rules. Granting you an AoO (which is different from a readied attack, and you can't take both at the same time), and a subsequent 'sidestep'
Last line in readied actions:
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
... at an angle that wasn't in line with my charge (i charged him at an angle and he side stepped away at an angle to leave the line of my charge.) and the DM said this negated my attack I was quite furious because how could he get an attack off before i swung my sword?
Slightly different spin on this. As far as I can tell, as long as you still have movement left, you could turn to engage someone that moves away, even at at angle. If you read the description of Charge carefully, you:
- must move directly towards the target
- need a clear path
- can't charge over difficult terrain
- need to move to the closest square from which you can attack
- can't charge if a line between your starting square and ending square hits a square that has a creature or something that blocks or slows movement
- need line of sight
In normal cases, this results in a Charge in a straight line. However, if you start a Charge and the target moves as a readied action, as long as you still have movement left, I don't see why you couldn't move towards the target and attack. As long as all of the above constraints are met, it appears legal to me. It isn't a requirement that you can only charge in a straight line.
I disagree with the Grandfather. As far as I know, what your GM did was legal. The readied action interupted your charge and the entire readied action happens before your attack.
True, I concede I was mistaken.
The readied attack and 5' step happen before the charge. So if the 5' step takes the readying character out of reach it would avaoid the charge. However I too am not sure there is an angled sidestep that would prevent the charge from being completed.
That actually is pretty interesting. I never thought about it that way, and it seems to work well, but with the situation i was put in if i were to follow my opponent to his new location there would of been a table obstructing the line from my starting space to my new (modified) ending space.
Oh well. Something to keep in mind next time, I guess.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Can a character ready an action to attack a character and move out of the way of a charge with their 5-foot step for that action.
Yes, but.
You can ready for an event.
You can take a 5 ft step on a ready action in addition to your action.
You may not be able to ready on someone charging you.
To ready, you must ready an action to happen BEFORE another action.
If you ready before a charge, you are not in range to attack.
If you 5 ft step out of the charge on a ready, but the charger still has "charge" line of effect to you he may still just charge you after your ready is done.
So, while you can do it, it doesn't help you much.
I am playing in a campaign where I charged an enemy monk who at the end of my charge (after we based) the monk attacked me with Hold the line, and then took a 5-ft step away at an angle that wasn't in line with my charge (i charged him at an angle and he side stepped away at an angle to leave the line of my charge.) and the DM said this negated my attack I was quite furious because how could he get an attack off before i swung my sword?
Any thoughts?
I can understanding the first time the NPC monk pulling this off, but why would you let it happen again? You dont have to charge, you could have just moved into his range, if he side stepped then you can follow up.
On a side note, when he 5ft stepped the first time, that should have put him 5 ft from you. At that point I dont believe you can charge him. I'm fairly sure you need 10ft to get a charge off(don't have books in front of me). So you shouldnt have been able to make the 2nd charge. But you could have 5ft back into range and full round attacked.
You ready on the enemy closing. This way it does not matter if he charges or merely moves to close. It changes nothing. Readied actions can interupt other actions, in this case happening before the attack of the charger.
... Guy B charges drawing his longsword while charging (because he has an attack bonus of more than +1)
For what it's worth:
If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.
Can't draw a weapon if you double move in a charge, which I assume that was.
|
Readied actions are in response to an action, yes? So doesn't the active player have to finish his WHOLE action before the readied action triggers? The active player's WHOLE action is to attack AS PART OF HIS MOVE, then the player with the readied action would take his action.You ready on the enemy closing. This way it does not matter if he charges or merely moves to close. It changes nothing. Readied actions can interupt other actions, in this case happening before the attack of the charger.
My point is that by the time he has "closed" he is already attacking.
My point is that by the time he has "closed" he is already attacking.Readied actions are in response to an action, yes? So doesn't the active player have to finish his WHOLE action before the readied action triggers? The active player's WHOLE action is to attack AS PART OF HIS MOVE, then the player with the readied action would take his action.You ready on the enemy closing. This way it does not matter if he charges or merely moves to close. It changes nothing. Readied actions can interupt other actions, in this case happening before the attack of the charger.
The readied action interupts, happening in between closing and the attack, just like an AoO would.
|
|
The readied action interupts, happening in between closing and the attack, just like an AoO would.My point is that by the time he has "closed" he is already attacking.Readied actions are in response to an action, yes? So doesn't the active player have to finish his WHOLE action before the readied action triggers? The active player's WHOLE action is to attack AS PART OF HIS MOVE, then the player with the readied action would take his action.You ready on the enemy closing. This way it does not matter if he charges or merely moves to close. It changes nothing. Readied actions can interupt other actions, in this case happening before the attack of the charger.
I can see it that way. It still seems kinda dick-ish to pull on a player. I would rule that this little maneuver could be counter-acted by the Step Up feat.
I can see it that way. It still seems kinda dick-ish to pull on a player. I would rule that this little maneuver could be counter-acted by the Step Up feat.The readied action interupts, happening in between closing and the attack, just like an AoO would.My point is that by the time he has "closed" he is already attacking.Readied actions are in response to an action, yes? So doesn't the active player have to finish his WHOLE action before the readied action triggers? The active player's WHOLE action is to attack AS PART OF HIS MOVE, then the player with the readied action would take his action.You ready on the enemy closing. This way it does not matter if he charges or merely moves to close. It changes nothing. Readied actions can interupt other actions, in this case happening before the attack of the charger.
I disagree, since as a player I set up situations to do this type of thing to my GM.
It is dick-ish. I find it hard to believe that if a charger bases his target he does not get to attack him especially when the chargie attacks the charger.... I just cant imagine attacking and moving out of the way dodging the charger's attack roll all together.
The situation is similar to having someone completely use a single move, while the foe readies to attack and move. When the attacker moves up, the foe can attack and 5' step back. The attacker now cannot reach the target, and can chose to either move again, or take a non-attack standard action.
One consequence of the readied action used in this way is that the attacker now has a higher initiative than the target, and the attacker can full attack next round.
It seems like a valid tactic, and generally buys the target a round before something bad happens.
readying an action is a standard action you can take a move action and then ready an action.
Of course then they couldn't make a 5' step as a readied action if they already moved.
well if the monk used hold the line, then its an aoO and he would also need the sidestep feat. and i would call it a dick move. I wouldn't use that combo as a player or DM.
so with that i could always ready my action to attack on my opponent's swing attacking before he completes his swing and then taking a 5-ft step and if i diagonal in just the right way (so that an enemy or terrain blocks his 5-ft to follow) i can negate his attack sticking him with a move action each round. it works cause i readied the action.
Except ... once your readied action goes off, it changes your initiative to be after the attacker. Next round, the attacker moves into the square you just vacated and can attack before you ready again.
actually think this is the first time your wrong here
pcb 203 states
For the rest of the encounter, your
initiative result is the count on which you took the readied
action, and you act immediately ahead of the character
whose action triggered your readied action.
Wow, I stand corrected! Fair enough!
For what it's worth, I allow this sort of thing to happen in my games from both the players and against them.
The one concession I make (which I realize is a house rule) is that the acting player can still finish his turn as if he had taken a move action (or two) to get to his current position.
So, if you have a base speed of 30ft and charge 20ft then trigger the readied action, after it is resolved you may continue moving up to 10ft and take a standard action. If you can still reach your target, you can finish your charge.
If you've moved 40ft before triggering the readied action, you can still move your remaining 20ft but it's as if you've taken two move actions. Again, if you can still reach your original target, you can finish your charge.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
The readied action interupts, happening in between closing and the attack, just like an AoO would.
That requires DM interpretation.
Going by the rule on PHB p203:
"The action occurs just before the action that triggers it."
You have two options (before and after):
Before
I ready to attack and 5 ft step away once he gets near.
Enemy declares "charge" as an action.
My ready triggers, but he hasn't moved so I can't attack. I just get to take my 5 ft step.
Drops back to enemy, his GPS says "recalculating" and he charges me and attacks.
After
I ready to attack and 5 ft step away once he gets near.
Enemy declares "charge" as an action, moves up to double speed, attacks me.
My ready triggers, so I attack and 5 ft step away.
Any other options (like "between") require a GM to split one action into two separate actions.