...What was this thread about again? There are plenty of other threads where casters vs martial characters and their various strengths and weaknesses have been discussed, so let's get back to the topic this is supposed to be about.
On a similar note, we've already established that there are many different play styles among posters on these boards, and what works for you, works for you and may not work for somebody else. Trying to convince somebody else that they're Playing the Game Wrong because they make suboptimal or min-maxed choices is not cool. Be excellent to each other, and if you can't do that, at least be civil to each other.
The simplest answer is a reach weapon, combat reflexes and (aiming to fight in) a confined space. Nothing is getting past the 'tank' without getting hit.
Don't forget Combat Patrol and Stand Still.
And like I said, even if they do get past you, odds are you will just pound the crap out of them on your turn. At most they might get one attack in on an ally.
...What was this thread about again? There are plenty of other threads where casters vs martial characters and their various strengths and weaknesses have been discussed, so let's get back to the topic this is supposed to be about.
On a similar note, we've already established that there are many different play styles among posters on these boards, and what works for you, works for you and may not work for somebody else. Trying to convince somebody else that they're Playing the Game Wrong because they make suboptimal or min-maxed choices is not cool. Be excellent to each other, and if you can't do that, at least be civil to each other.
It amuses me how fad-y these boards are. Clearly Wizards vs. Melee is the Topic of the Week (ToW). Maybe next week it will be something reasonable...like Pathfinder Psionics, or Gish (what's the plural of gish? is it gish like fish, or gishes, or geesh) who knows? That's what keeps the boards exciting :).
Every week I log on to see what relatively sane discussion has devolved into a flame war and spun off into a half-dozen other threads. It's all I have to live for. Don't take it away from me!
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Summoner (tank + buffer, party face)
Oracle of Nature (tank, summoner, primary healer)
Witch (control, random knowledge skills, also backup healer)
Ranger (Urban Skirmisher build, high DPS, skill monkey)
Front line with pets, all non-combat aspects should be covered well, flexibility to cover nearly anything. Ranger can cover trapfinding while having a higher damage output and more tricks than rogue, also good fort save.
I think someone needs to take a week or two off and recover from his Paizo crack- I mean forum- addiction....What was this thread about again? There are plenty of other threads where casters vs martial characters and their various strengths and weaknesses have been discussed, so let's get back to the topic this is supposed to be about.
On a similar note, we've already established that there are many different play styles among posters on these boards, and what works for you, works for you and may not work for somebody else. Trying to convince somebody else that they're Playing the Game Wrong because they make suboptimal or min-maxed choices is not cool. Be excellent to each other, and if you can't do that, at least be civil to each other.
It amuses me how fad-y these boards are. Clearly Wizards vs. Melee is the Topic of the Week (ToW). Maybe next week it will be something reasonable...like Pathfinder Psionics, or Gish (what's the plural of gish? is it gish like fish, or gishes, or geesh) who knows? That's what keeps the boards exciting :).
Every week I log on to see what relatively sane discussion has devolved into a flame war and spun off into a half-dozen other threads. It's all I have to live for. Don't take it away from me!
Hey man, I can stop any time I want. Now tell me more about how wizards are gods and you're wrongbadfail to play rangers!
Still miss the 4
Fighter
Cleric
Rogue
Wizard.
Ranger (Rogue/cleric)
Paladin (Fighter/Cleric)
Barbarian (Fighter/Rogue)
Druid (Cleric/wizard)
Burger (Rogue/Wizard)
Rune Blade (Fighter/Wizard)
Bard (Rogue/Fighter/Wizard)
This is an international forum. 9 AM is a completely meaningless term without context.
Again, what posts are you referring to?
True.
Tuesday, November 30, 2010 about 3:00:00 PM, Geneva.
I see. So what's the benefit exactly?
I see. So what's the benefit exactly?
Combined with the URL tag, it lets you make a link directly to the post you're referencing, rather than attempting to describe the post.
Ohh! It's a drag and drop thing!
So why did it take me to The List?
Edit; And page 1 at that.
Oh. And thanks Ross!
And TMZ!
I personally like the iconic 4 + the bard as face guy.
+1 It's a powerful flexible party that can adapt to nearly any situation, and it's long been the ideal makeup to my way of thinking.
Magus, Wizard, Witch, Sandman or Archivist (Bard archtypes).
All divine party? Okay, I'll take that challenge:
Paladin (tank, off-healer, Mega-melee dps if spec-ed for mounted combat)
Cleric (Healer, Buffer, Off-tank, Utility caster)
Oracle (Magic dps, battlefield control)
Inquisitor (Ranged DPS, skillz)
On the plus side, EVERYONE should be able to be the face, but if you want to leave that to one specific player, the paladin should fill that slot nicely.
(OTOH, paladin/inquisitor combo makes for some fantastic good cop/bad cop action)
Here is my idea for the party most likely to survive.
Paladin (Good mix of Offense, Defense, Healing and Magic, works as the party face)
Switch Hitting Ranger (Artillery, Melee, Sneaking skill monkey, Healing and some useful spells)
Druid (Summoning, Decent Spells, Healing, Decent combat with Wildshape. )
Wizard (God Wizard, and Knowledge's, Blasting when needed)
Healing will be done with Wands of Cure Light Wounds and scrolls. The Ranger has enough skill points to take Disable Device. Magical Traps will be dispelled. Scouting can be done by either the Ranger or the Druid (In Animal form).
All Characters have some spell ability, and there are two full casters. 75% of the party has healing ability so should be able to patch up quickly. Between the Druid and the Wizard they will be able to cover almost all Magical needs. The few things neither can do will probably be able to be handled by the Paladin.
Both the Druid and the Ranger will have an animal companion (Boon Companion for the ranger). This means the party of four is actually a party of 6. Then both the Druid and the Wizard start Summoning and soon you have an army.
If you are going to have a fifth character it would have to be Bard. Inspire Courage alone would make it worth it.
This party is designed more for general survivability, and depending on the campaign may need to be modified.
Here is my idea for the party most likely to survive.
Paladin (Good mix of Offense, Defense, Healing and Magic, works as the party face)
Switch Hitting Ranger (Artillery, Melee, Sneaking skill monkey, Healing and some useful spells)
Druid (Summoning, Decent Spells, Healing, Decent combat with Wildshape. )
Wizard (God Wizard, and Knowledge's, Blasting when needed)
Healing will be done with Wands of Cure Light Wounds and scrolls. The Ranger has enough skill points to take Disable Device. Magical Traps will be dispelled. Scouting can be done by either the Ranger or the Druid (In Animal form).
All Characters have some spell ability, and there are two full casters. 75% of the party has healing ability so should be able to patch up quickly. Between the Druid and the Wizard they will be able to cover almost all Magical needs. The few things neither can do will probably be able to be handled by the Paladin.
Both the Druid and the Ranger will have an animal companion (Boon Companion for the ranger). This means the party of four is actually a party of 6. Then both the Druid and the Wizard start Summoning and soon you have an army.
If you are going to have a fifth character it would have to be Bard. Inspire Courage alone would make it worth it.
This party is designed more for general survivability, and depending on the campaign may need to be modified.
I prefer fighter for more consistent damage and better battlefield control then the paladin. Lower overall survivability is offset by replacing druid with a battle cleric who can still provide good dpr and superior healing and status removal. On Bard and Wizard we agree entirely, and I like Rogue over ranger for better trapfinding and really nice dpr with a TWF build, which is only made stronger by the presence of the bard. Less of an army effect than your composition, but a little more flexibility, and still plenty of summoned pets available.
Ultimately this is a flavor choice though, as both parties are very capable, just different means to the same ends really.
Wizard(BAttle Field Control), Cleric(Support Archer), Fighter, Ranger.
Why mess with a combination you know works?
Rigger/hacker
Mage
Street Sam
B&E/heavy weapon guys
delusions of grandeur
schizoprhenic
manic depression
Generalized anxeity disorder
Superman Batman Wonder Woman and The Flash
Superman Batman Wonder Woman and The Flash
Lol. I don't think you can get Superman for a 20 point buy.
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That or you could skip Ranger and hope that druid summons at right time to set off traps and get Bard instead for some song and extra buffs, again archer route.
Bardic inspiration only gets more awesome, the more attackers are present. Three individuals with 'pets' (Druid, Animal-Domain Cleric, Summoner, etc.) combined with a Bard could be fun. (Not every 'pet' gets morale bonuses, so a blight druid with mindless vermin critters, or an artificer-type with homonculi, or an evil priest or necromancer with undead won't benefit much at all from a Bard.)
But otherwise, yeah, a pet-party could rock. It's my favorite archetype in online games (EQ necros and magicians, DAOC spiritmasters, enchanters, bonedancers and cabalists, COV masterminds, etc., etc.).
A Ranger or Hound Master Cavalier or Mounted Paladin could be the tank.
A Summoner as arcane caster.
A Druid or Animal Domain Cleric as divine caster.
Is there a skill-monkey class that has a pet?
Eh, just use a Bard with charm person, and bring a charmed 'hireling' along as a 'pet' until you can qualify for Leadership. :)
I personally like the iconic 4 + the bard as face guy.+1 It's a powerful flexible party that can adapt to nearly any situation, and it's long been the ideal makeup to my way of thinking.
More specifically this is how I see the ideal party
Fighter (dmg oriented striker/tank)
Cleric (Battle/Debuff)
Rogue (TWF striker/skills)
Bard (Archer/Buffer/Face character)
Wizard (Controller/Summoner)
Great dpr and battlefield control, solid buffs and debuffs, with exigent skills and social abilities all covered.
This is an old exercise. Last time I participated in it was, I think, for 3.5, but may have been PF. Either way the answer I felt was the most powerful was:
druid
druid
druid
druid
Now I might say
witch
witch
witch
druid
This is an old exercise. Last time I participated in it was, I think, for 3.5, but may have been PF. Either way the answer I felt was the most powerful was:
druid
druid
druid
druidNow I might say
witch
witch
witch
druid
I'd have to work actively very hard not to TPK that. It's nice on paper but would be very squishy in practice.
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And if you can, then Batman's a 1 point buy. [prepares self for legions of batman fanbois]Superman Batman Wonder Woman and The FlashLol. I don't think you can get Superman for a 20 point buy.
Now, I'm trying to think of superhero groups that would fit the 'standard 4' role.
Teen Titans - Raven (healer / support), Nightwing (skillmonkey), Cyborg (tank), Argent or Kole (controller / blaster)
New X-Men - Elixir (healer), X-23 (skillmonkey), Rockslide (tank), Hellion (controller / blaster)
Few other groups actually have a healer or dedicated support character, so the comparison tends to fall apart...
The Fantastic Four comes close - Invisible Woman (support, through force fields, and control), Human Torch (blaster), Thing (tank), Mr. Fantastic (skillmonkey, kinda/sorta).
I don't split party members into set roles, I tend to use partial roles. So a party could have:
utility caster
damage dealer
tank
ranged attacker
skills monkey
lore-master
healer
battlefield controller
face
buffer
So for example my Sunday Afternoon group would be:
Tank & healer - Emyla the paladin
Damage Dealer - George the fighter
Utility caster & damage dealer - Jal the sorcerer
Lore-master, buffer & face - Laleth the bard
Ranged attacker & battlefield controller - Esyn the druid
Skills monkey & damage dealer - Anson the rogue/ranger
Some roles are split - the party above has several good damage dealers, for example, although George outshines them all. It has three healers, although Emyla is the best. Jal and Anson can also act as face ... in short it's a group with multiple redundancy for each role. Not every role is essential, but it's important to fill as many as you can!
Once upon a time, when D&D had a THAC0 table, there were the classic 4. The classic 4 were the staple classes of many early D&D campaigns and included a Thief (Rogue), Cleric, Magic User (Wizard), and a Fighter. They all had their roles to play and each class was made to feel useful.
Ofcourse, the classic 4 is now well and truly an anachronism and it is entirely possible to have a functional and capable party without any of these classes. What I want to know is what you would consider your must have classes if you wanted to be guaranteed of success in surviving a campaign from levels 1 through to 12. So basically, what 4 classes would you pick to guarantee the survival of your party for the full length of the campaign.
I know there are endless combinations you could pick that would work, but if your life depended on it, what 4 classes would you pick that you think would have the greatest chance to succeed and why? Let's assume you are adventuring in any typical Adventure Path campaign without any unusual anomalies to consider.
Once upon a time, before time was reckoned as we know it now, the elf was a class that could be played......
My try ..
Paladin (Party face. Very hard to kill and stop due to high saves and lay on hands. Preferably falchion based or twf. Destroys evil creatures.:))
Rogue (Skill monkey and support damage)
Witch (battlefield control and Support healing)
Wizard Enchanter (aura that reduces saves, battlefield control and buffing/summoning... )