Our group has been running through Savage Tide under PF rules, and we've had some personnel changes recently. A player who recently left was playing a Priest (from the Tome Of Secrets), and we are without a strong healer in the party. Current party makeup is Swashbuckler 5, Fighter 5, Rogue 5, Wiz3/Sor2. One player who is definitely coming in is playing some sort of Oracle, likely. But if he plays anything but a Life Oracle (of course, we're not forcing him), the party won't have enough healing to keep up with what we're going through. Is there a better way around this then spending more money than would be normal on healing items?
If the oracle know cure light wounds you could get a wand for 750 to get a lot of healing charges for pretty cheap out of combat. They only cost 750 gold pieces for 50 uses of the spell. Wands of cure light wounds are really quite cheap unless you have almost no money. Potions cost many times more like 3 if I recall correctly.
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Leadership for a cleric?
But why do you say that an oracle besides Life wouldn't do? They still get cure spells they can cast, Life Oracles just have abilities for them to use them better.
My party (of six) is the same level as yours, and we only have two half-healers (bard & paladin) and they're doing ok so far with just a wand of CLW and their own spells/abilities.
It might require a rethinking of tactics if they're low on magical healing, maybe they shouldn't charge into the fray, maybe they shouldn't spend all their money on weapons and not armor. Without knowing how your party plays, its hard to understand why an oracle wouldn't be enough healing.
you'll can run through that wand really quick if your not carefull. I ran a party through Burnt Offerings that had one. Cleric kept rolling 1's on the d8. It went quick.
Can't the oracle get the healing burst effect of the cleric's? I'd get that. Maybe let them have an eternal wand of Cure Light Wounds. Say 1/day caster level 3ish?
If the oracle isn't a life oracle but opts for all "cure" spells then the only concerns would be
a) lack of means of curing ability drain
b) an unhappy player who doesn't get to use the other tricks he brought to the table but is relegated to healing.
If the oracle opts for all "inflict" spells then your game may be in a healing starved situation.
Re: Life Oracle:
One of their revelations lets them get Channel, which potentially saves a lot of cash/wands/spells healing between fights.
What with all the various things they get, a Life Oracle is a hell of a healer, but I don't see it as a must-have. YMMV.
Our group has been running through Savage Tide under PF rules, and we've had some personnel changes recently. A player who recently left was playing a Priest (from the Tome Of Secrets), and we are without a strong healer in the party. Current party makeup is Swashbuckler 5, Fighter 5, Rogue 5, Wiz3/Sor2. One player who is definitely coming in is playing some sort of Oracle, likely. But if he plays anything but a Life Oracle (of course, we're not forcing him), the party won't have enough healing to keep up with what we're going through. Is there a better way around this then spending more money than would be normal on healing items?
Healing Potions = They do make great loot.
Healing Wands = For the orcale.
Let the players multi-class = Few levels of cleric/druid/bard should giving them some emergence daily healing. Add in some wands (which they can now use), or Brew Potion feat (funny how potions really hit the spot).
Last resort, NPC Heal bot, but i do mean only as a last resort. Most likely a low level henchman.
PS = If the players shy away from clerics (alignment/god reasons), just rename them Psychs with psych healing. ((Same thing, just drop the alignment restriction and drop the gods)).
The wiz/sor and the rogue can also use magic devices once they get a few ranks in UMD to spread the love of cure wands and scrolls around. Beyond this, develop new tactics:
1) Ambushing your enemies. You're a group with a fair degree of stealth built already into your party. Learn to sneak up on enemies and hit them hard in the surprise rounds.
2) Distance superiority. If you can do a better job shooting the enemy than the enemy can do shooting you, that helps lessen the damage you'll be taking.
3) Terrain mastery. Take advantage of it. High ground, difficult terrain, and some acrobatic PCs can give you the edge in hit-and-run tactics.
4) When all else fails, start crafting magic items. Make healing stuff. Make cloaks of displacement to help avoid damage in the first place.
You have plenty of options. And remember that the best defense is a good offense and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (especially in wands).
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If you're (or your DM is) not opposed to tweaking the rules, I would suggest taking at look at the Reserve Points mechanic from Unearthed Arcana. It's written for 3.5, but should be pretty much exactly the same in Pathfinder. And using this variant is perfect for a low-healing party, without affecting their balance in any given fight.
Leadership, one or more of the PCs. It's easy to fit into builds if your used to the 3.5 1 feat every 3 levels. The cohort could even be the Healer class from the old Minis handbook.
Back in 3.0 a group I was with had healing issues as well so the fighter took leadership and got a tiny (so it could fit in his combat square) fey healer. The we help craft an adamantine box (for the fey's protection) into his armor so he had a healer in a box.
As a side note this is what hirelings are for. The party should put funds toward hireing adepts.
Hire an NPC to adventure with you. Offer the NPC cleric a full share of the loot, problem solved.
Or negotiate with a cleric to tag along back away from danger and pay him the cost for spells Caster level × spell level × 10 plus a daily hazard pay fee.
If you have good diplomacy you may be able to talk an NPC cleric to tag along stay back and just heal for half a share of treasure.
Of course there is pick up Leadership at 7th level and have your cohort be a healing cleric that follows around and heals at 2 levels lower then the party. Till then you will have to pay for the healing.
more then the lack of healing, the lack of a arcanist is more worrysome. Your caster is seriously gimped for AP play. The others maybe too...but his gimp is pretty glaring.
Yep Wizard 3 /Soc 2 ouch I hope he is going in to some Presstige class that add to both caster levels(lile Ultamint Magus CM) or that guy relay suck the whole party down.
Leadership for a cleric?
But why do you say that an oracle besides Life wouldn't do? They still get cure spells they can cast, Life Oracles just have abilities for them to use them better.
My party (of six) is the same level as yours, and we only have two half-healers (bard & paladin) and they're doing ok so far with just a wand of CLW and their own spells/abilities.
It might require a rethinking of tactics if they're low on magical healing, maybe they shouldn't charge into the fray, maybe they shouldn't spend all their money on weapons and not armor. Without knowing how your party plays, its hard to understand why an oracle wouldn't be enough healing.
3 of the players in the party are very, very good, from a tactical standpoint. Doing dumb stuff is not the issue, it's the toughness of the campaign.
I say that anything but a Life Oracle won't be as effective because they're the only one that gets Channel Energy, and the previous Healer WITH Channel Energy was barely keeping up. Part of the problem might have been that they don't have much to do to contribute but low-level spells and the like, and that results in fights not being over as quick.
more then the lack of healing, the lack of a arcanist is more worrysome. Your caster is seriously gimped for AP play. The others maybe too...but his gimp is pretty glaring.
Yep Wizard 3 /Soc 2 ouch I hope he is going in to some Presstige class that add to both caster levels(lile Ultamint Magus CM) or that guy relay suck the whole party down.
Yeah, he's going into Ultimate Magus. It's going to suck until then, and even after the fact, it's not what I would have chosen to do with an arcane caster at all.
The wiz/sor and the rogue can also use magic devices once they get a few ranks in UMD to spread the love of cure wands and scrolls around. Beyond this, develop new tactics:
1) Ambushing your enemies. You're a group with a fair degree of stealth built already into your party. Learn to sneak up on enemies and hit them hard in the surprise rounds.
2) Distance superiority. If you can do a better job shooting the enemy than the enemy can do shooting you, that helps lessen the damage you'll be taking.
3) Terrain mastery. Take advantage of it. High ground, difficult terrain, and some acrobatic PCs can give you the edge in hit-and-run tactics.
4) When all else fails, start crafting magic items. Make healing stuff. Make cloaks of displacement to help avoid damage in the first place.
You have plenty of options. And remember that the best defense is a good offense and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (especially in wands).
1) This is tough, but the group IS good at winning initiative most fo the time.
2) This is a big weakness of the party, limited distance superiority, but very, very dangerous up close.
3) We're pretty good at utilizing that sort of thing.
4) The mage has Craft Wondrous Item, so that WILL go a long for as far as magic item dollars.
You may want to think about healing items that are renewable. If your wizard can craft a 3.5 healing belt (since you are planning to use ultimate magus I am presuming that on some level 3.5 material is allowed) that would help. 2 would help more. The renewable healing will save the oracle spell slots and the party money over time. It would also allow other characters to be able to do some measure if in combat healing in an emergency without ranks in UMD.
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You may want to think about healing items that are renewable. If your wizard can craft a 3.5 healing belt (since you are planning to use ultimate magus I am presuming that on some level 3.5 material is allowed) that would help. 2 would help more. The renewable healing will save the oracle spell slots and the party money over time. It would also allow other characters to be able to do some measure if in combat healing in an emergency without ranks in UMD.
Gaaaaaaaaaaah! I made it all the way through the thread, and the last comment is the one I was hoping not to see. I hate hate hate hate the healing belt. It was so frigging cheesy...everyone had one. One of my favorite things about switching to Pathfinder was when my players realized that the healing belt no longer exists.
God I hated that thing... /rant
~thinks~ Hit and run tactics. Distance weapons. Negotiation. Knowing when to stay and when to run.
Play the characters as you would a special forces team. Do not stay in a face to face encounter. Play the characters smart. Use the characters strengths and minimize their weaknesses. If played right, the need for healing should be minimized.
I play a Healer from Miniatures Handbook at 9th level in another campaign. We just made the switch to Pathfinder and I'm working out the differences with the GM.
If you're party is out a healer, then I would suggest your arcane spellcasters start getting Summon Monster III for the Lantern Archon's Aid (temp hp), and Summon Monster VI for the Lillend azata's CSW 2/day and CLW 5/day. If the GM says you call the exact same creature each day you're not any better off, but if it's a random creature each time then the spell pays off handsomely. The Aid might be temporary but the healing should be permanent.
Most arcanists have high Use Magic Device ranks, or should, in my own opinion. Keeping Spellcraft and UMD maxed out means not only will the caster recognize a wand, but have the ability to cast from it, even if it is divine.
So have everyone take ranks in Heal and UMD and everyone starts carrying a band-aid box with them for 50 gp.
If new players come into the game there is a new Character Trait called Sacred Touch on p.329 of the APG that gives a player the ability to Stabilize with a standard action all day long. Sometimes, that's enough to drag the player out of harm's way and start pouring healing potions down his or her gullet.
In the Cleaves there is a plaque with directions to make a band aid.
It is basicly a piece of cloth with the Aid Spell on it.
Several gamers have said they are just using pieces of the dungeon in their campaigns. The detailed wand of curing with the command word spelled out is also cool.
If you have any players interested in Alchemy (the skill, not the class), then a DC 25 check (not difficult with the Crafter's Blessing spell) could churn out Troll Syptic (Seekers of Secrets) for about 17 gp per application (2d4 rds of fast healing 2).
Please, way too complex. You don't even need UMD.
Have the fighter take a level in ranger or paladin. Bing, Cure spells on class list, can use a wand, even if he can't cast the spells. Pick a good favored enemy and his weapon style free feat, go to town.
If your DM allows Wands of Lessor Vigor, they are much better for out of combat healing at 11 hp/charge.
If your DM allows Dragon Shaman, the fast healing aura/1 when under 50% hit points is also good for keeping people in the running.
There are a TON of healing things in 3.5...it's actually quite easy to get by without a healer until high levels, when the need for Heal and Mass Heal becomes extreme. Belts of healing are cheaper then CSW potions, heal the same, and are reusable!
==Aelryinth
You may want to think about healing items that are renewable. If your wizard can craft a 3.5 healing belt (since you are planning to use ultimate magus I am presuming that on some level 3.5 material is allowed) that would help. 2 would help more. The renewable healing will save the oracle spell slots and the party money over time. It would also allow other characters to be able to do some measure if in combat healing in an emergency without ranks in UMD.Gaaaaaaaaaaah! I made it all the way through the thread, and the last comment is the one I was hoping not to see. I hate hate hate hate the healing belt. It was so frigging cheesy...everyone had one. One of my favorite things about switching to Pathfinder was when my players realized that the healing belt no longer exists.
God I hated that thing... /rant
LoL. That belt is awesome. Potions are way overpriced though.
PS:Why didn't you just ban it if you did not like it?
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If you have any players interested in Alchemy (the skill, not the class), then a DC 25 check (not difficult with the Crafter's Blessing spell) could churn out Troll Syptic (Seekers of Secrets) for about 17 gp per application (2d4 rds of fast healing 2).
Troll Styptic can be made for 33 gp per application (100/3=33.33) So, 4-16 hp for 33 gp and 11.2 days at minimum to make. Not very practical unless you have someone focused on alchemy
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I hate hate hate hate the healing belt. It was so frigging cheesy...everyone had one.LoL. That belt is awesome. Potions are way overpriced though.
PS:Why didn't you just ban it if you did not like it?
Because I was a player at the time, and the GM was telling all the players to get healing belts - he was in frigging love with the things. IIRC, I was one of the only PCs who didn't buy one (although I might've caved in at the end).
I mean, they did a good job of providing needed healing at a low cost, but they were just so...flavorless. If the item was exactly the same in terms of mechanics, but instead of a shiny belt, it was a waterskin that turned normal water into a healing elixir when exposed to the first rays of dawn, I probably wouldn't care that much.
I mean, belts? Really? Might as well be the ascot of healing, or underpants of healing.
You may want to think about healing items that are renewable. If your wizard can craft a 3.5 healing belt (since you are planning to use ultimate magus I am presuming that on some level 3.5 material is allowed) that would help. 2 would help more. The renewable healing will save the oracle spell slots and the party money over time. It would also allow other characters to be able to do some measure if in combat healing in an emergency without ranks in UMD.
If only.....the Healing Belt is so, so banned in this campaign.
~thinks~ Hit and run tactics. Distance weapons. Negotiation. Knowing when to stay and when to run.
Play the characters as you would a special forces team. Do not stay in a face to face encounter. Play the characters smart. Use the characters strengths and minimize their weaknesses. If played right, the need for healing should be minimized.
*headdesk*
For the third time, the party is being played about as smart as can be. It's just a very tough campaign, and getting hurt is a forgone conclusion at this point.
Please, way too complex. You don't even need UMD.
Have the fighter take a level in ranger or paladin. Bing, Cure spells on class list, can use a wand, even if he can't cast the spells. Pick a good favored enemy and his weapon style free feat, go to town.
If your DM allows Wands of Lessor Vigor, they are much better for out of combat healing at 11 hp/charge.
If your DM allows Dragon Shaman, the fast healing aura/1 when under 50% hit points is also good for keeping people in the running.
There are a TON of healing things in 3.5...it's actually quite easy to get by without a healer until high levels, when the need for Heal and Mass Heal becomes extreme. Belts of healing are cheaper then CSW potions, heal the same, and are reusable!
==Aelryinth
There are a ton of healing things in 3.5......but this is PF, and the 3.5 sources allowed are extremely limited.
Is there a better way around this than spending more money than would be normal on healing items?
For healing, your options are pretty much spellcasting or spending money on healing items (mundane or magical). Otherwise, the pickings are pretty slim. The usual solution is wands of CLW (or maybe Infernal Healing/Lesser Vigor as noted above).
I don't suppose you can get your hands on eight formian workers, could you? ;-)
you'll can run through that wand really quick if your not carefull. I ran a party through Burnt Offerings that had one. Cleric kept rolling 1's on the d8. It went quick.
Can't the oracle get the healing burst effect of the cleric's? I'd get that. Maybe let them have an eternal wand of Cure Light Wounds. Say 1/day caster level 3ish?
You could always houserule 4 + 1d4 instead of 1d8 for healing.
THe healing belt is a great tool, and 'flavor' is an issue for the DM. It's a belt because everyone wears one. If you want to make it a periapt, a bracer, a holy symbol, or something else, that's fine. Just remember it was designed to give people healing options other then a cleric, and to be useful in battle (it doesn't spring an AoO to use the belt).
A bottle of healing potions effect is nice, but you can't swig them in combat without consequences. If you want to go this route, then you should at the very least make it stronger (beaker of plentiful potions or something).
In your campaign, if you want to change the healing effect, please do. But remember why it exists...to give parties cheap extra healing. If you want to stop the 'multiple belts', just give them a 24 hour attunement period, so nobody owns more then one.
==Aelryinth
You don't have a cleric or Paladin?
The cookie jar is open if you look at it.
Vampiric Glove. Gives the wearer vampiric touch in their hand or a melee weapon. Must be made from the skin of a sentient that died of blood loss. It doesn't actually radiate evil. Price varies by caster level, as does the points drained. May be found individual or in a set.
You don't have a cleric or Paladin?
The cookie jar is open if you look at it.
Vampiric Glove. Gives the wearer vampiric touch in their hand or a melee weapon. Must be made from the skin of a sentient that died of blood loss. It doesn't actually radiate evil. Price varies by caster level, as does the points drained. May be found individual or in a set.
Ummm... Hells, yeah! That thing is sweet.
Also, if 3.5 is allowed on an individual basis, ask if the Oracle can take the Touch of Healing feat from Complete Champion. It can only be triggered on people that are below half, but it is a scaling effect that takes no resources to use beyond actions. It may be a really good compromise solution to talk to the DM about if the Oracle doesn't want to automatically take on a healbot role by going with Life.
such a good feat! my party used it all the time after a fight to heal up and save spells and items. Really good choise for a feat
such a good feat! my party used it all the time after a fight to heal up and save spells and items. Really good choise for a feat
It might mean having to keep a mass cure crit wounds in memory for a 24 pt healing touch, but yeah, the Reserve feats are extremely useful.
Draconic Aura to heal everyone around you while they are under half hp is another nice thing. I think as long as people are at half hp they can still be in a fight, is the thinking...or maybe it's just saving you hit points at low level.
==Aelryinth
since this in the advice thread.... i say sarcastically...hehe
munch, munch, munch, +15 hp ~~Ding~~
Vampiric Glove. Minor 3D6 GP 30,000. Medium 6D6 GP 66,000, Major 9D6 GP 102,000
The 10 dice is almost epic. It won’t be on the tables.
Can't afford it, you'll have to fight a cheiftan or something for it.
Out of the MIC if that's ok:
Lifedrinking Crystals and the vampiric weapon enhancement. These only work against living opponents though.
Living creature touched. No ranged, golems, or undead.
On the upside, it doesn't heal undead.
Well, maybe if they are wearing it, but I have no idea.