RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
As a GM, I am always amused when a spellcaster pulls out a scroll of daylight in the middle of a deeper darkness effect and I ask him how he plans to read it.
.
Riffle scroll?
.
By a strict reading if the Inner Sea Magic text:Riffle scrolls are treated exactly as scrolls for the purposes of deciphering the writing, activating the spell, and determining its effects (including the chances for mishaps), save for the fact that riffle scrolls do not require verbal components—they automatically function as if they were cast using the Silent Spell metamagic feat.
.
I would say that, since a spellcaster needs to read a scroll, and riffle scrolls are treated exactly the same as scrolls in tems of activation, a caster would need to see the riffle scroll..
But that flies in the face of what's going on with a riffle scroll, so I'd probably bend the rules and allow it.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Still looking for "what does my non-caster (or caster without see invisibility or invisibility purge) do about invisibility?" and "is there a cheaper-than-750gp option for dealing with deeper darkness?"
Let's be honest here, it's not the Deeper Darkness that's the problem, it's what's in it.
I think many people missed my post above. I'll iterate.
Solutions for badguys within Deeper Darkness at low levels:
Smokestick
Fog Cloud
Obscuring Mist, etc.
Those bad guys who can see in deeper darkness usually have sneak attack which is the actual problem with deeper darkness.
The obscuring effects, ie concealment, (even a 20% miss chance) stop sneak attack.
It's unlikely (but possible) that you'll find a foe at low levels with blind sight/sense or tremorsense.
So you can 'counter' Deeper Darkness by giving the badguys the same penalties that you have.
-Pain
Director of Brand Strategy
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A spell targeting "one creature" or "one creature touched" would qualify for making a potion, but not one using any wording not including the word "creature(s)". For a list of all possible potions, scrolls, and wands from the Core Rulebook, see Chapter 5 of the GameMastery Guide. You'll notice there's no potion of see invisibility just like there's no potion of shield, feather fall, or expeditious retreat. Such spells have a target of "personal" and are thus not elegible for being crafted into a potion.
Still looking for "what does my non-caster (or caster without see invisibility or invisibility purge) do about invisibility?" and "is there a cheaper-than-750gp option for dealing with deeper darkness?"powder tossed on the ground.
a RP gimick I have used in other games is a piece of string (or rope) with a weight on the end, twirled around my character (works for my halfling). Picture a child swinging a jumprope around over his head where the end almost touches the ground. An invisible creature MIGHT be able to jump it... but does it make noise?
Not just a gimmick. The APG has stats for powder and how to use it to locate invisible creatures. Unfortunately, it's just for finding the creature, not getting around the miss chance.
I have always enjoyed Faerie Fire for many solutions:
A pale glow surrounds and outlines the subjects. Outlined subjects shed light as candles. Creatures outlined by faerie fire take a -20 penalty on all Stealth checks. Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects.
It has a Target of "Creatures and objects within a 5-ft. radius burst", so you just need to catch the creatures in that 10-ft. diameter area.
This version of the spell is better than the old days (1st and 2nd ed) where it only outlined creatures and it had a set amount it could outline, rather than outlining everything in an area.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
For Invisibility:
Seriously, scrolls of Faeirie Fire are cheap, and your Druid and UMD friends can use them for you.
Yeah, I just need to decide whether my druid will grab a couple scrolls or just screw it and get a wand. :P
Glitterdust scrolls are less cheap - and anyone that CAN cast that one should have it.
I don't have any characters that can cast that one, but I guess I could look into budgeting a scroll for my fighter and rogue.
For Darkness:
In the new PFS Field Guide there's an option to get a Dayfinder (Wayfinder variant) for I think 8 Prestige. It casts Daylight 1/day.
8 PP? Blech.
I'm assuming the Deeper Darkness is reducing the light level to "no light" and not "magical darkness". In the former case, Darkvision will suffice- in the latter you're in the deep stuff.
Depends on what lighting was already there - if the two-step drop would take it below "dark", it goes to supernatural darkness.
(a) Potion of Darkvision is 300gp (and may come in handy other times).
Yeah, gonna have my characters start carrying one of those around!
(b) You can hand your scroll of Daylight to someone that has Darkvision (and can cast or UMD it), such as a Dwarf.
Too situational, I think.
Daylight is not a commonly needed spell, and I don't expect level 5-7 casters to memorize it in one of their few spell slots (assuming those casters exist at the table). Unlike other "only need it once in a while" spells, it's not a viable scroll for the above mentioned reason of you can't see to read it, and it hits the whole party.
So my 6th level fighter shouldn't grab an oil of daylight yet?
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hey Painlord!
You know what would be awesome? If you made another one of your lists:
"Items everyone should carry in PFS"
Break it down in a timeline like you did with this one. Actually, it would be a lot like this one, only with specific items instead of "a solution to X".
Things like:
In your starting gear:
Rope
Dagger
Etc.
By level 2:
Spell/Scroll/Potion/Wand of X, to deal with A.
Etc.
And so forth.
...Or do you already have such a list? Because guys like me who haven't been around long enough to know what the best options out there are can read this list and say "okay, but how?"
So... Pretty please? :D
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
...Or do you already have such a list? Because guys like me who haven't been around long enough to know what the best options out there are can read this list and say "okay, but how?"
Part of the issue with how, is that it varies from one character to another and a lot of solutions are usable but have small differences from each other that have the possibility of coming up.
Also not all characters will be good at all situations. Wally, the wonderful Wizard will likely have an easier time coming up with solutions to esoteric problems than Thug, the big dumb fighter.
However Thug will likely have an easier time overcoming the stone golem blocking their way. I'm okay with this. However in the case of a table full of Thugs, it's still nice to have some solution, in case Wally decided to memorize magic missle in ever slot and doesn't carry any scrolls.
That said here are the problems/options on the top of my list:
In between encounter healing:
Wand of Infernal Healing (only if I can use it myself)
or Wand of Cure Light Wounds
Ranged Attack:
MW Composite Longbow (+2Str) 2PA (Don't forget some arrows, generally a solution for a melee character)
Grappled or otherwise occupied:
Armor Spikes (although spiked gauntlets generally seem more popular)
Invisible:
I generally don't have a solution to this on my melee characters, although my cleric has memorized invisibility purge and has a backup scroll of it just in case. Most of the time locating the square is doable through perception and/or the bad guy doing things.
If you have access to Faerie Fire (spell list or UMD) I think it's a good one at low levels and invisibility purge just makes sure the problem goes away.
Darkness:
I like the mutually assured destruction plan of something like obscuring mist is that a lot of the deeper darkness encounters in PFS happen with creatures able to caster deeper darkness at will, making trying to get rid of the darkness likely a losing battle for the PCs.
On an aside I really like the sun domain higher level power on my cleric (Daylight that auto-dispells all darkness effects + more)
Swarms:
Alchemist Fire
|
For the invisibility and darkness, what are the best ways to be prepared? Does it change based on whether or not you're a caster? (Looking for advice, as I have a level 6 fighter and a level 3 druid, and want to be prepared.)three big onesI've said this in other threads and often to players...
There is a "big four" of challenges as I call them that you should be able to overcome in PFS.
- Swarms
- Invisibility (and to a lesser degree blindness)
- Flying creatures
- Darkness (especially Deeper)
The swarms are the first to address because they start appearing nearly immediately at low levels. The other three are usually delayed a bit, but become prevalent as early as level three. Have a plan to counter these challenges otherwise you will have an extremely difficult time with many scenarios.
This is why Dangerously Curious is the best trait in the game, and rogues the most underrated class:
Swarms: Fire Breath
Invisibility: Faerie Fire, Glitterdust, See Invisibility
Flying: Scorching Ray, Admonishing Ray
Darkness: Daylight
-- How "expensive" is it? Scrolls are cheap enough to one-off; 2nd-level wands are 4500gp. Stats: this is the part where the gnome and halfling rogues yawn like it was nothing while attending the funeral of an inept human colleague.
"I never liked him anyway; he had a charisma of 7!"
Otherwise, a fighter with a race-bumped starting STR of 19 (cost 13) and a CHA of 7 could have a starting STR of 17 and CHA 12; that plus class skill plus trait bonus to UMD + a Circlet of Persuasion at some point give him excellent odds of getting those spells off trigger items. -- So, would you rather have +1/+2ish attack/damage but still get your butt chewed at Tier 7 at tables with poor caster support, or be able to handle all-comers? (Min/max guys thus have to be more circumspect during table mustering at higher levels so as to ensure the party has adequate ability to deal with situations; recovery from death is affordable at that point, but twiddling your thumbs while the rest of the PCs journey onwards on some slog far away from town is...immensely boring.)
|
|
Grappled or otherwise occupied:
Armor Spikes (although spiked gauntlets generally seem more popular)????
A grappled creature can make attacks with any method that doesn't require two hands.
(Thanks for asking for clarification, I thought this one could use some more writing but I was getting lazy and wanted to hit submit)
Right, but if you've already got a bow out, or a two handed weapon, or are surprised etc... It also lets you make attacks while climbing, with your CLW wand out without having to spend the time drawing/dropping weapons etc.
While it may not be the best solution to any of these problems
I find it's a very nice option to have that costs very little and makes a variety of awkward scenarios significantly less so, including being grappled.
|
|
Still looking for "what does my non-caster (or caster without see invisibility or invisibility purge) do about invisibility?" and "is there a cheaper-than-750gp option for dealing with deeper darkness?"
One option, which is fairly pricy on the initial purchase, but never needs to have any additional expense on it, is the Hand of Glory.
8,000 gp, but it gives you three things, for the other expense if using up your neck slot:
Cast Daylight 1/day
Cast See Invisibility 1/day
And it gives you an extra (third) ring slot, which can be useful in OP where you can't make multi-function rings...
Ring of Protection +X
Ring of Y
Ring of Z
Invisibility, Feather Falling, Sustenance, maybe one of the expensive rings....
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Still looking for "what does my non-caster (or caster without see invisibility or invisibility purge) do about invisibility?" and "is there a cheaper-than-750gp option for dealing with deeper darkness?"One option, which is fairly pricy on the initial purchase, but never needs to have any additional expense on it, is the Hand of Glory.
8,000 gp, but it gives you three things, for the other expense if using up your neck slot:
Cast Daylight 1/day
Cast See Invisibility 1/day
And it gives you an extra (third) ring slot, which can be useful in OP where you can't make multi-function rings...Ring of Protection +X
Ring of Y
Ring of ZInvisibility, Feather Falling, Sustenance, maybe one of the expensive rings....
I think my fighter just found something to save up for.
|
|
I think my fighter just found something to save up for.
I wouldn't doubt it, my high level fighter has one, which is amusing, since he also has two spell lists.
Full info:
Hand of Glory
Aura faint varied; CL 5th
Slot neck; Price 8,000 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
Description
This mummified human hand hangs by a leather cord around a
character’s neck (taking up space as a magic necklace would). If a
magic ring is placed on one of the fingers of the hand, the wearer
benefits from the ring as if wearing it herself, and it does not
count against her two-ring limit. The hand can wear only one ring
at a time. Even without a ring, the hand itself allows its wearer to
use daylight and see invisibility each once per day.
And it is use, not cast, although I am not totally confident of the difference...
|
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
|
For Invisibility:
Seriously, scrolls of Faeirie Fire are cheap, and your Druid and UMD friends can use them for you.
Glitterdust scrolls are less cheap - and anyone that CAN cast that one should have it.
Some nice items for which you don't even need UseMagicDevice:
Feather token: Tar & feathers (from Andoran, Spirit of Liberty) gives you a one time Glitterdust effect for 600.
Stunstone: (from Pathfinder #39 p57) Give you a enlarged faery fire effect (and a sound burst effect) for 300.
...I always find it interesting the discussion about UMD. I see fighters attack all the time with a less than 50% chance to hit. Or a rogue with less than a 25% chance to disable a trap. Or the wizard who is down to cantrips and attacking the BBEG with a Ray of Frost. For some reason, we have this requirement that unless you can nearly guarantee success with UMD, it's not worth taking. Sometimes, it can be the difference between success and a Raise Dead.
I believe that is because the attack, disable, or ray don't rapidly burn through your disposable cash. I don't believe it is RAW, but most groups I have seen have the item consumed or a charge used for each failed attempt. I have still done it, but it is painful.
Since this is PFS play we are talking about, that should not be a consideration though.
|
|
This entire thread of discussing cheaper methods has inspired me to think of a wizard being very cheaply with his spells.
Rolling that bluff to try to convince the party to cover their entire body and kit in baking flour, because "It's magical, I'm a wizard trust me." Then hitting his party with a gust to detect invisible things.
"Sensitive ears that creature has, yes." *attaches a cowbell to his weapon*
|
I don't believe it is RAW, but most groups I have seen have the item consumed or a charge used for each failed attempt.
With regards to wands, I see nothing that would result in a lost charge on a failed attempt unless you fail the check by 10 or more. So as long as you fail by 9 or less, the item just fails to activate. No harm, no foul.
|
|
the fail by 10 notes are on Activate Blindly
Good point.
thou some Judges say that a roll of a nat. 1 burns a charge with no effect
IMO, that is a critical fumble effect and not approved for PFS. There is nothing in the RAW, that indicates a loss of charge resulting from a nat '1' unless you are activating blindly and fail by 10 or more.
Trying to activate an unidentified wand maybe?This
+ gnome with the excitable trait that just CAN'T WAIT!
Beware, 1st level sorcerers weren't meant to take 2d6 damage...
If you're a fighter, your big resource is feats.
Take a look at Blind-fighting. It's not going to solve every problem in the world, but no feat does that. What it will do is help out, a lot, against darkness or limited visibility.
Also look at Handle animal. If you can bring something along that has scent, it will have a way to overcome darkness, and you might be able to at least target the right square.
You could also buy a gun. With the different blast effects available, you don't need to know exactly where things are. You can just blast part of the room. (works better for casters, I know. You can't magic missile the darkness, but you CAN fireball the darkness)
And yes, faerie fire is an excellent spell, especially at higher levels when 1st levels spells are not as big a deal.
|
|
And for darkness, don't forget a well timed Summon Monster II to get a Lemure with see in darkness. It may not be very helpful in combat, but when the lights go out, it can help. I saw a bard summon one inside an area of darkness and it grappled the enemy creature. This allowed the paladin to use his Detect Evil ability to pinpoint the Lemure and thereby locate the target creature in the darkness.
|
|
And for darkness, don't forget a well timed Summon Monster II to get a Lemure with see in darkness. It may not be very helpful in combat, but when the lights go out, it can help. I saw a bard summon one inside an area of darkness and it grappled the enemy creature. This allowed the paladin to use his Detect Evil ability to pinpoint the Lemure and thereby locate the target creature in the darkness.They had three rounds for localization of the lemur?
Not needed for a Paladin using Detect Evil.
Standard: Activate Detect Evil (assuming correct direction for cone)Move: Use Paladin special ability to jump to the third round of Detect results
Free: Tell rest of party where the lemure & grappled opponent are.
And, next round, whale away, albeit with a 50% miss chance still.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just wanted to pop in and give formal thanks to Painlord for this guide. I now have a semi-standardized list of gear that all my characters grab in low to mid levels. In case anyone's interested, here are my Standard Buys:
• Air Crystals (PFS Field Guide)
• Light Source (light spell, ioun torch, Wayfinder, w/e)
• Potion of invigorate
• Potion of darkvision
• Ranged attack (bow, crossbow, ranged cantrip, even a friggin' sling)
• Oil of daylight
EDIT: How did I forget the 3x Alchemist's Fire?
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Yeah, but I'm not sure about the Oil of Daylight. Tried to buy that in a home game and the judge pointed out that Brew Potion doesn't allow it to be made. From the feat Brew Potion:"You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures."
Daylight targets "object touched". Is there something in PFS that will let me buy it? Another source?
I stopped buying the Oil of Daylight on my PCs, worried that I had been cheating.
The targeting requirement is supposed to say "creatures or objects", and has (I believe) been eratta'd to reflect this.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Shameless tooting of my own horn.
Didn't make it into the FAQ, but it's in the eratta document (linked a tad further down in the thread I just linked).
Thanks Jiggy - this is good stuff. Means I can make Oil of Shrink Item and Oil of Invisibility in a home game. For when you need to get that large item past the guards....
My favourite (not for PFS!) is Oil of Animate Dead. Necromancy in a can!