RPG Superstar 2013
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A couple 0of new developments: I jsut realized you can't combine Deadly Aim with touch weapions, so that won't work for the alchemist. You'll need Nine Swords or some other book to ad to your ranged damage. TO be honest, if allthe stops are pulled out, look at that green and gold wristband and Wasp mon and think to yourself "What would Tsuruchi do?" Find your Rokugan stuff and pull out any feat that mentions 'ranged attack' without using the word 'bow'.
Also, someone mentioned breaking their stuff. Acid bombs and ranged sunder...mmmmm.
Finally, I was stupid not to advise Vital Strike for the frost worms: 6d8+36+1d8 cold. Yeah, baby.
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I think the 3.5 Draconomicon had some really nasty feats that boosted dragon's breath weapons.
Grapple 'em. Constantly. Barbed devils (CR 11) are some fun grapplers. Add monk levels to make them nightmarish.
Greater invisibility. That's only a 4th level spell, and invisibility has tons of benefits.
Ray of dizziness. Spell Compendium page 166. 3rd level brd/wiz/sor spell, no save, medium range, staggers one PC for 1 rd/caster level. (SR does apply.) If your PCs are 14th level, 5th level wizards are mooks who can swarm the party and greatly impede them with this spell.
As others have mentioned, attack ability scores, especially Con. 3.5 dread wraiths are only CR 11. Night hags are CR 9 and you can add class levels. Awakened dire weasels or stirges with monk levels. Advanced gibbering mouther. Ghosts with the draining touch ability.
And when their Con is low, hit them with blindness and hopefully they fail their Fort saves.
If you want to be nice and attack mental scores rather than Con, feeblemind em, then someone finishes the job with ray of stupidity from SC.
One thing to watch out for (and I know because I've been in your position) is that the tougher you make these fights, the more XPs the PCs earn, the quicker they level up and make your job even harder. Remember that summoned monsters don't give XP. There's nothing wrong with your NPC summoning monsters just before the fight starts, without the PCs realizing they're summoned.
Finally, if the PCs have a lot more party wealth than they really should, trim that back. Throw them in a pit swarming with advanced rust monsters. Put them in role-playing situations where they need to give away magic items. I loved the sunder-fest previously suggested. Or stop handing out so much treasure, and when they whine vaguely imply it's their own fault because they should have done something they didn't do.
more cool MiC stuff
Cheers man.
I swear, the more i read that book, the more i realise how broken it is.
Saw an item in there the other day that allows you to stand as a free action with no AoO...for 500gp!
Anyway, thanks for that.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Also, Superstar 2011 is coming up. If I can get through the bridesmaid round, come by and support a rookie designer!
I'll vote for you if you vote for me :-)
And on-topic... more Spell Compendium fun!
(Greater) Anticipate Teleportation on bad guys!
No save, and anyone using any teleportation spell or effect, including anything with the Teleportation descriptor such as Bo9S Shadow Blink, Shadow Jaunt etc, is out of combat for 1 or 3 rounds. Sweet!
Balor Nimbus - 2nd level, deals 6d6 fire damage every round to grapplers! Put it on your Ropers as a Spell-like ability :-)
Blinding Spittle - Druid 2 - Blind as a ranged touch attack. No save!
Dolorous Blow - 3rd level. Cast on a weapon, the threat range doubles and all crits auto confirm.
Energy Transformation Field linked to Summon Monster - the party's spells don't work, AND call in more enemies!
All the Orb spells :-)
Ray of Clumsiness on high AC dudes. 1d6+1/2 caster levels Dex penalty, no save. Only level 1!
Sword of Deception - attacks the target every round, giving them cumulative penalties on their next save. Let it pound on them for a few rounds then hit them with the Will saves :-)
Give the bad guy some Ranger mooks and have them learn Hunter's Mercy (lev 1). Their next shot is automatically a crit!
Have fun :-)
more cool MiC stuffCheers man.
I swear, the more i read that book, the more i realise how broken it is.
Saw an item in there the other day that allows you to stand as a free action with no AoO...for 500gp!
Anyway, thanks for that.
I missed that one. Could you hook me up with a name or page number if you remember it? It does have some things that are under priced, but many things in the DMG and other books were overpriced. An example is the items that want you to spend a feat and worship a deity. Their new prices are much more reasonable. I think the belt of battle is underpriced. I would pay at least 30000 for that.
Sword of Deception - attacks the target every round, giving them cumulative penalties on their next save. Let it pound on them for a few rounds then hit them with the Will saves :-)
Have fun :-)
I never noticed this one. One day I will go through that book, and make a list of acceptable spells for my group.
Most of the issue comes from being unable to challenge the party. I've actually gotten a reputation for running pushover combats. Last session was the first time in several weeks that a PC has taken a double digit amount of damage. When the PCs are out of combat, utility abilities make them more or less able to infiltrate anything and fast-talk anyone.
The PCs are level 14. The big offenders are Tome of Battle stuff (a PC Swordsage who likes Shadow Hand style and Rings of Invisibility) and creative use of magic items.
SIR, I must inform you that this is your fault. You are not ready to run a campaign higher than 8th level if this is your problem, and you are running a level 14 campaign?
It is assuredly not intentional, but you simply do not understand how to challenge a party at that level. At those levels, invisibility is trivially easy to bypass (actually at about half that level it's easy but not trivially so). The Tome of Battle is one of the better balanced books in the entire 3.5 line, and yet you're having trouble with the runt of the litter with the 3 core classes (the swordsage)?
Firstly, what kinds of encounters are you throwing at them? This is probably the most important question of all, since even unoptimized parties are likely to eat through encounters that are poorly designed or consist of "I'm a monster, you're a party, let's fight". Multiple enemies, and teamwork among the monsters is ideal.
Likewise, if you want to optimize monsters fairly quickly, I'd go with increasing HD and adding NPC levels. Generally their CR won't increase except maybe by +1 every 2HD/Levels or so; and it makes for a fairly decent way to bump saving throws quickly, get some extra BAB / HP in, and increase stuff like caster level on spell-like abilities, increase save DCs, and so forth.
Most monsters have save DCs for their special abilities equal to 10 + 1/2 HD + key ability modifier. Tack on Ability Focus for a +2. If you wanna see something terrifying, try a couple of advanced Allips. The 3.5 allip entry says they can advance up to 15 HD naturally, and throw all their ability score advances into Charisma, and grab the Ability Focus feat, and maybe a couple of feats from Libris Mortis (like Turn Resistance or Positive Energy Resistance), and if you're using Pathfinder as your core, don't forget undead get charisma to HP/Fortitude saves instead of Con.
So your 15 HD allip would look kind of like this.
Greater Allip CR 8
XP 4,800
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60ft; Perception +15
Defense
AC 16, touch 16, flat-footed 15 (+1 dex, +5 deflection)
Hp 126 (12d8+72)
Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +8
Defensive Abilities incorporeal, undead traits, madness, channel resistance +2
Offense
Speed fly 30ft (perfect)
Melee incorporeal touch +9 (1d6 Wisdom drain)
Special attacks babble
Statistics
Str -, Dex 12, Con -, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 20
Base Atk +9, CMB +10, CMD 20
Feats Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight, Ability Focus (Babble), Improved Natural Attack (Incorporeal Touch), Skill Focus (Stealth), Toughness
Skills Fly +9, Perception +15, Stealth +22; Racial Modifiers allips produce no sound if desired, and so enemies are treated as deaf (-5 perception checks) when trying to notice an allip that's using Stealth.
Special Abilities
Babble (Su): An allip constantly mutters and whines to itself, creating a hypnotic effect. All sane creatures within 60 feet of the allip must succeed on a DC 23 Will save or be affected as though by a hypnotism spell for 2d4 rounds. This is a sonic mind-affecting compulsion effect.
Madness (Su): Anyone targeting an allip with a thought detection, mind control, or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of Wisdom damage.
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Our allip here is mildly optimized. Pretty mean cookie, really. The blind-fight feat is there so the allip can attack people from inside floors and walls very effectively. Likewise being inside the floors and walls grants you cover or concealment, so we're gonna get a lot of mileage out of Perception and Stealth. The allip has 126 Hp thanks to a high charisma and Toughness, so unless the party can force the allip to emerge (stay away from walls, floors, and ceilings), it will take forever to kill it. Improved Natural Attack increases the wisdom drain done by his touch attack from 1d4 to 1d6 (I check the wraith to make sure size increase works on such an attack - and it does). Its babble has a pretty strong save DC, and one of these lurking in the shadows while a party is scouting with spells like detect thoughts is a beautiful way to start the encounter.
Allips are likewise intelligent. Targeting people with heavier armors first is a good option (all that clanking around can be a clue). Attacking from inside objects means enemies have to ready attacks to hit them (so no full attacks), and grants them a +4 cover bonus to their AC. If the allip begins by attacking divine casters, the wisdom drain will shut down their spells exceptionally quickly.
And the kicker? For a an APL 14, you could toss about 8 of these into a CR 14 encounter. Even if they just rushed the party and didn't use any tricks. A group of allips with high-stealth will almost assuredly get the surprise round, rush in, forcing one DC 23 save vs Fascination per allip from every party member, catch the party flat footed, make touch attacks with a +11 to hit (charginging, possibly with +13 from flanking), and proceed to devour the party.
It's mean, and it's nasty, but it's damn effective.
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NOTICE: What you really need to do however, from the sound of it, is work on your encounters and understanding of the game. Honestly if the swordsage is your nemesis, something is terribly, terribly wrong.
Tell us what you're doing, and maybe we can tailor advice to that.
I'm always fond of the solution presented within the GM's Guidebook for Cyberpunk 2020 - "Listen Up, You Primitive Screwheads!" - that suggested that problem player characters could be tackled best by themselves.
Someone here suggested a Mirror of Opposition, but why not have a much simpler, lower Deus-Ex-Artifacta style solution:
Have someone put a hit out on them.
Get copies of all of their sheets. Add +2 to every characteristic, maybe raise a level or two, give one or two additional feats and magic items per character, hire a ton of CR 6-10 thugs to harry and harass the PC's with traps, hit-and-run ambushes, and everything necessary to get their goats, then when they're camped for the night, drop a whale on them.
Don't have any one capable of summoning a Whale out of thin air and teleporting it over their heads?
Well, if you've added those feats and levels and other things, you do now.
A falling whale ought to count as a pretty big AOE attack, if nothing else. And it makes a great calling card.
Turning their own excess back upon them, I have found, is a great way to get the Players to stop playing the Feature Escalation game. Your mileage may vary, but, seriously, throw their own stuff back at them, see how long they keep it up.
Don't have any one capable of summoning a Whale out of thin air and teleporting it over their heads?Well, if you've added those feats and levels and other things, you do now.
A falling whale ought to count as a pretty big AOE attack, if nothing else. And it makes a great calling card.
Sadly, this isn't possible as you cannot summon a creature outside of an environment that cannot support it. Page 352 of the Core Rulebook under Summon Monster I.
Plus they can't teleport, or use spells or spell-like abilities with expensive components... wow that made my intended use of it really suck. Oh well.
Take/ Break there toys any take stuff and leave Disarm an Telaport. Pick pocket, Taxes, Count Suplies Ie Material Compents For casteror Arrow/bolts for Shotter, take Holy symbols.
Use ecomebeance Rules.
Weather,Terain and Monster that igor the effects.
No Rest 20+ Fight per day in 45 minute wave. or 20 Fight one after another.
Change the EXP Curve To slow.
Lighting/visablty Rules use them. (Now it Dark and you can not see)
Noah Type Flood cand you swim.
I had Problems with Hero Feast. Each and Every time they cast it 4+1D6 Assian Devils would show Up and Attack.
Curses, Poison, Attack Stats, Abilty Drain
Improved Nartal Attack with any that dose Abilty Drain. Like Advanced Alps
Give Monster Class levels Cuasse in Pathfinder that gives them the elite Aray for free and NPC weath = Neww CR for Free
Traps on Battel Field any
I personaly worth 100 GP of Bear Traps DC is Low only 15 to find but are looking to trap doing some thing else. Looking stander Action are doing that or some thing else.
Swams, Mobs
Bug/snake/ Scorion Bite/sting you while you sleep.
Dieses poor water suppiels/ food
Sewers Runs Fort or Sicken/ Nauseated each Round follow filth fever each and every round make +3 hours to get there they will all be sick soner or later.
Baneful Polymorh
Spilt party with Wall type trap or Telaport trap, or plane shift
Magic Jar take one and telaport use there one use stuff poor out stuff.
Don't have any one capable of summoning a Whale out of thin air and teleporting it over their heads?Well, if you've added those feats and levels and other things, you do now.
A falling whale ought to count as a pretty big AOE attack, if nothing else. And it makes a great calling card.
Sadly, this isn't possible as you cannot summon a creature outside of an environment that cannot support it. Page 352 of the Core Rulebook under Summon Monster I.
Plus they can't teleport, or use spells or spell-like abilities with expensive components... wow that made my intended use of it really suck. Oh well.
They've already used "creative use" of extradimensional storage equipment to move other PC's, as evidenced in the early posts of this thread. One might surmise that someone could, say, stand in the surf, summon a whale, stuff it in whatever the Anti-PC's storage device consists of, teleport nearby, and in a miracle of shouting "Mobymon! I choose YOU!"... fling a whale at their heads.
I realize this sounds rather silly, but my point is that if they're already capable of "bending" some of the rules (such as storing living PC's inside extra dimensional storage devices for use in lifting the weight restrictions from teleport), then they can have those capabilities turned back upon them.
Their dirty tricks are only not dirty when they're not being used to put them at a disadvantage. PC's the likes of which are being described here tend to defend their tactics to the death, until they're used against them.
There are other ways of messing with them, however, that don't involve muddling with turning a Handy Haversack into a TARDIS.
Have a cleric or someone similar cast "Create Water" at maximum effect and drop a small lake on their head. 1 gallon of water is 8.34 pounds or so. At CL 16, that's 32 gallons of water. Okay, so, not a small lake, but still about 135 pounds of water hitting a target all at once. That's gonna hurt.
Have the Anti-Party hire a druid or someone who can cast Awaken on a Whale. Imbue the Whale with Spell Ability. Cloak it in invisibility after having convinced it that they're evil and need to be destroyed.
Romulan WarWhale decloaking off the port bow, sir. *theme music*
*KA-WHUMP!*
Splattered PC's.
The PC's in this game have already proven themselves to be crafty and cunning with the rules. I maintain the solution isn't going to be found within the pages of the manuals so much as it is going to be found in their own methods.
The PC's in this game have already proven themselves to be crafty and cunning with the rules. I maintain the solution isn't going to be found within the pages of the manuals so much as it is going to be found in their own methods.
Not to be a jerk but this is the exact opposite of the direction that I'd suggest going with this. You want to scare you PCs, make them feel that the fights are hard, and that winning means something not impress them with your knowledge of the rules right? So find simple fights that scare them. There is 4 of them to the one of you, and to top it off you have to worry about the the plot, etc. which means they will always have way more time to put into bending rules.
Start with a simple fight like the Shadows. Yes they'll win and your Sword Sage might even not take that much damage. Doesn't matter, he'll be afraid of taking it. And if they go first they'll still get 8 attacks (if they divide evenly) at his flat footed touch AC, which can't be that high. After that the Shadows supervisors from Evil Inc. come looking for them and fight the PCs - The greater Shadows. Assuming the party has some way to heal str damage it won't be as scary as the first time (if not it could get out of hand) but it will still get there attention. At this point the regional head of Evil Inc. notices what's going on and sends everyone's favorite - the Rust Monster. It is unlikely to do much damage to PCs of there level but save or loose item will really scare most PCs. They'll loose maybe a item, and that's if you send 32 as a CR 13.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35
RUST MONSTER
Medium Aberration
Hit Dice: 5d8+5 (27 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+3 Dex, +5 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+3
Attack: Antennae touch +3 melee (rust)
Full Attack: Antennae touch +3 melee (rust) and bite –2 melee (1d3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Rust
Special Qualities: Darkvision, scent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +5
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +7, Spot +7
Feats: Alertness, Track
Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 6–8 HD (Medium); 9–15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —
The hide of these creatures varies in color from a yellowish tan underside to a rust-red upper back. A rust monster’s prehensile antennae can rust metals on contact.
The typical rust monster measures 5 feet long and 3 feet high, weighing 200 pounds.
COMBAT
A rust monster can scent a metal object from up to 90 feet away. When it detects one, it dashes toward the source and attempts to strike it with its antennae. The creature is relentless, chasing characters over long distances if they still possess intact metal objects but usually ceasing its attacks to devour a freshly rusted meal.
The creature targets the largest metal object available, striking first at armor, then at shields and smaller items. It prefers ferrous metals (steel or iron) over precious metals (such as gold or silver) but will devour the latter if given the opportunity.
Rust (Ex): A rust monster that makes a successful touch attack with its antennae causes the target metal to corrode, falling to pieces and becoming useless immediately. The touch can destroy up to a 10-foot cube of metal instantly. Magic armor and weapons, and other magic items made of metal, must succeed on a DC 17 Reflex save or be dissolved. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +4 racial bonus.
A metal weapon that deals damage to a rust monster corrodes immediately. Wooden, stone, and other nonmetallic weapons are unaffected.
Now that they are down on items and str have the fight the big bad. Yeah if they are a really a power game group they'll still win fairly easily but they'll feel like they did something because it was scary to get there. Make sure it has a little extra loot to replace whatever was destroyed (don't make it too obvious). They had a tough night, and it was scary and they worked for it WITHOUT you having to get into a complicated rules situation.
These things always give me great ideas for The Cleaves.
The rust monster hiding in an iron golem illusion.
If a rust monster can wear a hat of disguise? Oh look, an iron cobra!
You could put a Tonberry in front of a crucial door.
Hey, fill a hard to pick door with poison gas.
Harm the door, have to make a fort save.
How about a were-rust monster monk with vow of poverty.
I missed that one. Could you hook me up with a name or page number if you remember it? It does have some things that are under priced, but many things in the DMG and other books were overpriced. An example is the items that want you to spend a feat and worship a deity. Their new prices are much more reasonable. I think the belt of battle is underpriced. I would pay at least 30000 for that.more cool MiC stuffCheers man.
I swear, the more i read that book, the more i realise how broken it is.
Saw an item in there the other day that allows you to stand as a free action with no AoO...for 500gp!
Anyway, thanks for that.
Sure, the item's called Boots of Agile Leaping. p.76 MiC.
@MistahGreen: Actually, as per the PF Conversion Guide, you only need 2 ranks to activate this item.
If their coming up against Aberrations consistently then a Spirit Naga w/class levels and/or a template and its pack of Intellect Devourers could pose a nasy challenge?
The Brain Dogs constantly Detect Magic so your super stealthy PC could come unstuck [and woe betide any of them that are knocked prone ;)]
The Naga [optimised] could also potentially charm one of them to work against the rest of the party...
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Well so many ways to go... lol I read the replies and feel your pain. I DM'd a group from 1st to 42nd level. Alot of great idea on here so i will add my few to the pot.
Since this is 3.5/PF its an open book to you.
MONSTERS
MM III - pg.50
Ephemeral Swarm - CR 5
- incorporeal traits / undead traits / swarm traits / 1/2 dmg from slashing/piercing weapons.
- No Sneak attack, no crits
- Str. Dmg (1d6) to any creature whose space it occupies.
Since its a CR 5 you can get into the Libras Mortis book and have a hey day.
- replace standard feats with Life Sense - (heck use darkness to yuor advantage against them) help with stealth problem.
- Empower Str. damage ability (out of book of vile darkness)1.5 X str dmg
- add templates to it. Evolved Undead / or 2 swarms
MMIII - pg. 91
Living Spells --- now thats just fun...make up what you need.
NPC's
(staying with the Eberron flavor)
Druid 5 / Planar Shepherd 10
- Faiths of Eberron - pg. 107
- Why 3.5 was called Druids of the Coast by some. If you never seen what this class can do you need to take a look.
- Alternate class feature from (complete divine if i remember right for druids and get an Elemental companion instead of a animal).
Just google Planar Shepherd Handbook it will be the first one on top of the page... lol
Warforged
Fighter 5 (or Warblade 5) / Disciple of Dispater 10
Book of Vile Darkness - pg. 60
AO's and Crits Galore... lol
Feats (WARFORGED)- PG 192 MMIII
- Adamantine Body and Improved Fort. (no crits) and DR
Feats DOD class
- Imp Crit, crit focus any crit feats you can get, Lightning Maces (Complete warrior - pg.113)- whenever you roll a threat on an attack roll you gain an additional attack at the same attack bonus.
Magic
- Tomb of Battle (pg. 148) +1 aptitude weapons bonus + lightning Maces Feat with a pair of scimitars... muahh ahhh ahhh watching them cry. Make the weapons metal abyssal bloodiron (+4 to confirm crits) + crit focus gives you a +8 to confirm a crit range of around 12-20 depending on what weapons you choose. Weapon magic - if any crit stuff.
Self buffs - Perm on your NPC's
- Perm spells to buff your warforges and no gear for them if they beat them.
- Savage Species pg. 60
- Girallons blessing + Fuse Arms (buff str. by +8) if they kill them no str. item for them to retrieve. + Advance template from Pathfinder Bestiary (if you want to get real nasty).
- Superior resistance +6 to ST
- Imp. Blindsight 60 ft (help with the stealth issue)
- Scent (stealth issue)
The disciples use spell likes to summon their Erinyes (arial bow support) and Iron Skin (great DR) before battle.
Hope this helps, any of these above are very deadl. Now if you just plain want to crush one to get their attention.
Orc or 1/2 Orc - Fighter - 15 (Charger)
Feats - Power attack (use original power attack from 3.5) / Power Lunge / Leap attack / Shock trooper / Combat brute / Headlong Rush (orc feat from forgotten realms (sorry can't rember the book) but 2x's damage on a charge.
Pathfinder - optional fighter class - Two handed fighter from APG.
or just google Opt Charger book. A weapon of vaulting from the complete arms and equipment guide for +30 to jump check + Aporter on it from MIC so you teleport away from the guy you just crushed to charge again the next round.
Good Luck!
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Well so many ways to go... lol I read the replies and feel your pain. I DM'd a group from 1st to 42nd level. Alot of great idea on here so i will add my few to the pot.
Since this is 3.5/PF its an open book to you.
MONSTERS
MM III - pg.50
Ephemeral Swarm - CR 5
- incorporeal traits / undead traits / swarm traits / 1/2 dmg from slashing/piercing weapons.
- No Sneak attack, no crits
- Str. Dmg (1d6) to any creature whose space it occupies.
Since its a CR 5 you can get into the Libras Mortis book and have a hey day.
- replace standard feats with Life Sense - (heck use darkness to yuor advantage against them) help with stealth problem.
- Empower Str. damage ability (out of book of vile darkness)1.5 X str dmg
- add templates to it. Evolved Undead / or 2 swarmsMMIII - pg. 91
Living Spells --- now thats just fun...make up what you need.NPC's
(staying with the Eberron flavor)Druid 5 / Planar Shepherd 10
- Faiths of Eberron - pg. 107
- Why 3.5 was called Druids of the Coast by some. If you never seen what this class can do you need to take a look.
- Alternate class feature from (complete divine if i remember right for druids and get an Elemental companion instead of a animal).
Just google Planar Shepherd Handbook it will be the first one on top of the page... lolWarforged
Fighter 5 (or Warblade 5) / Disciple of Dispater 10
Book of Vile Darkness - pg. 60AO's and Crits Galore... lol
Feats (WARFORGED)- PG 192 MMIII
- Adamantine Body and Improved Fort. (no crits) and DR
Feats DOD class
- Imp Crit, crit focus any crit feats you can get, Lightning Maces (Complete warrior - pg.113)- whenever you roll a threat on an attack roll you gain an additional attack at the same attack bonus.Magic
- Tomb of Battle (pg. 148) +1 aptitude weapons bonus + lightning Maces Feat with a pair of scimitars... muahh ahhh ahhh watching them cry. Make the weapons metal abyssal bloodiron (+4 to confirm crits) + crit focus gives you a +8 to confirm a crit range of...
A note if you go Warblade - Disciple of Dispater
Dual weild Kukri's and take Tiger Claw disciplines Pg. 86 Tome of Battle
- Blood in the water level 1
- Dancing Mongoose level 5
- Pouncing Charge level 5
- Raging Mongoose Level 8
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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a pack of 10th level battle sorcerers. One casts haste, then stands back with targeted dispels, the others cast shivering touch (optionally with extend or empower through metamagic thesis), have them charge in, hasted/invisible/etc. They get a few hits on the PCs who suck up 3d6 dex damage per hit.
Party gets smart, casts resist cold.
Sorcerers have energy substitution...
Optionally, if sitting down and talking it out doesn't work to 'reset' your game, just start throwing mooks at them.
"The town guard says you can't enter."
"I hit him with-"
"And he's dead, no need to roll, the otehr guards charge."
"I use my-"
"And they're dead. Nope, no need to roll. They're 2nd level fighters."
After a bit of "No need to roll, they're dead." Then broach the subject of party power levels again. When you cut them off before they can say "I use my mega-super-power-combo." it even takes their fun out of killing the target.
"But I was going to subdue him!"
"He died from shock."
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For some Flavor -
UndeFEATable Bard feats bardic feats found on this site (3rd party).
Bard - 15
Feats: These kick in when using Bardic performances
- Bard 3 / Dulcet Slumber - All enemies within 30ft. make a will ST DC= 10 + 1/2 bard levels (no HD limit).
- Bard 3 / Serpents's Tooth - You may inflict a number of enemies = to your bard level divided by 2 with a poison. DC= 10+ bard level. (it does not state what type of poison) so pg. 559 Pathfinder handbook. I suggest Green Prismatic Poison.
- Bard 6 / Cloaking Mystery - Magic fog bank blocks all sight including darkvision with a radius of 10ft. You are not effected. You gain 50% concealment.
- Bard 15 / Dance of the Ether - become ethereal.
What is the point of a DM optimizing?
If you can twink out a build to come up with skyhigh AC and attack bonus and hit points (or whatever) far beyond the monster/NPC's CR would entail....you have a higher CR monster. Formula or not. Just because you jumped through rules hoops to get the AC that is 10 points higher than normal rather than just DMed it into being doesn't make it any less challenging to hit.
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What is the point of a DM optimizing?
If you can twink out a build to come up with skyhigh AC and attack bonus and hit points (or whatever) far beyond the monster/NPC's CR would entail....you have a higher CR monster. Formula or not. Just because you jumped through rules hoops to get the AC that is 10 points higher than normal rather than just DMed it into being doesn't make it any less challenging to hit.
True. but I enjoy the art of putting a character together (since i DM alot and play very little charcater creation is few and far between) and i am sure i am not the only one. + Plus my group (and i assume many others - yes i know what assuming does... lol) can tell if its a DM'd up thing or done my the rules. It also helps to keep me and them honest.
Not to be a jerk but this is the exact opposite of the direction that I'd suggest going with this. You want to scare you PCs, make them feel that the fights are hard, and that winning means something not impress them with your knowledge of the rules right? So find simple fights that scare them. There is 4 of them to the one of you, and to top it off you have to worry about the the plot, etc. which means they will always have way more time to put into bending rules.
If anyone ever accuses you of being a jerk for coming into an open conversation and offering your opinions, points, and counter points in a manner designed to help the originator of said discussion solve his problem, please direct them to me. I will enlighten them on your behalf.
I don't think you were being a jerk at all. Please don't put yourself down like that! (even if you were only using it as a turn of phrase)
I don't disagree with your suggestions in the slightest. In fact, I figure that our two solutions aren't entirely incompatible. I maintain that part of the problem that the OP is having here is that his players are drunk on power-creep, and need to be shown that their dirty tricks are, in fact, dirty.
If the PC's get to do it, the monsters/bad-guys/evil overlords should, too.
If the PC's can exploit extradimensional storage to transport over-weight items (or personnel), then the opposition does, too.
If the PC's can exploit loopholes in summoning and magic descriptions, then so to do the bad guys.
Turn about is fair play, after all.
Also, I agree with a much earlier statement - Stop throwing only a single monster at them. These guys are easily a Two, even a Three Linnorm crowd.
How about... the party is beseached by some town to bring back their children, theve been stolen by something in the night... the pc's investigate and in a couple of days track them down to an old abandoned mine up in the hills or mt.s. This place was used for a while after it was abandoned by some Kobolds or some such and some minor weapons like daggers were left behind. Now something has moved the children into the mine... When the pc's investigate they find there are a lot more children than they were led to believe. Because children from verious villages in the area were also taken. But they cant find any thing els down there... Night is comming on and its a couple of days back to the villages and it will take a while to sort things out...
The Children are posessed by something. For the Children use stats use first level Goblin Worriors with dogslicers or miners pics or daggers but with High Mental Stats, or if you like first level Gnome warriors with High Mental Stats, that way they can have a little magick ;)
Bear in mind these are supposed to be human children so the magick will come as a suprise...
See what the party does against evil children they are not supposed to kill and who are not responsible for their malicious cold blooded sneak attacks of pc's on watch ;)
Children of the Corn or munchkin revolution?
By munchkin revolution I am thinking of the episode of Simpsons or Scooby Doo.
It just takes one or 2 kids who get mad about being ignored, then they offer the other kids candy or something. Note that offering the troops something, a high perform check with a silly song, or talking to instead of down to them, may solve the problem. If areas of the game world hate magic, music, and or dancing, you have the set up. The characters have to role play, not roll play the situation.
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Honestly this is not the prettiest solution if it's a solution at all. I have dealt with overpowered parties for years. If they are 14 and over powered then a CR 17 should be close to a standard encounter for them. Hammer them with several of these. With no ability to rest, have a reactive environment. The sound of battle would carry and other creature would investigate. After lead them unwittingly into the boss fights (with a CR of 19 or 20. Test it out. If you feel like your going to party wipe fudge some rolls if you want to but thats how I have always dealt with them. I strangle the excess items in creative ways. Idk what an artificer does to be honest but there has to be scenarios you can force them into where they will have no access to the materials they need for all of this equipment for such as long forays into the wilderness or toss them into another plane where all the weapons and gear they find is cursed or unusable by anyone that isn't of a certain alignment (preferably whatever theirs is.) This may sound like being a jerk but it creates a missing sense of challenge. Forcing them into different planes is a great way to use the environment to negate some of their excess abilities with some creativity. Hope my rambling helps.
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You should be getting an email in about 2 minutes if you don't already have it.
For a scary flaming skull, that there wraithstrike is a very nice chap!
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You should be getting an email in about 2 minutes if you don't already have it.For a scary flaming skull, that there wraithstrike is a very nice chap!
I do what I can to make PC's cry or die. I prefer death though. :)
I would start throwing puzzles, riddles, and diplomacy challenges at them. ;)
Seriously, switch things up a bit. Start making big use of terrain. If someone spams flight and other distancing tricks, put them in a narrow dungeon with low ceilings. Alright, yeah, they're high level enough they still have tricks up their sleeves for that but it helps. Alternately if they're used to indoor fights.
Zerg rush them. Lots of low level creatures, including lots of low level creatures with ranged weapons. (I learned that a bunch of 10th level fighters standing in a safe position tossing javelins of lightning at 17th level PCs can do a lot of unexpected damage... one of those reflex saves will fail...). They can bring them down in a hit but they have to rely on tactics rather than straight up bashing things.
And yes, do indeed throw in challenges that do not require them to be awesome in combat. The game is more than combat, and optimizers often don't understand that.
Option b: Ditch the group. They sound like a whiny bunch of pains in the rear end anyway.
I like DeathQuaker's suggestion.
But is restarting the game a viable option? Pick an adventure path that starts the group at first level, and tell them that you're "taking a break" from the normal game. Then get them to start new characters - at first level. Have them roll up characters to block the min/maxing (all rolls witnessed). Run the path.
They do sound whiney, but the issue is also that the DM is not ready for high level play, IMHO. If anyone told me how to run a game I would stop right then, and one of them would be running.
Most of the issue comes from being unable to challenge the party. I've actually gotten a reputation for running pushover combats. Last session was the first time in several weeks that a PC has taken a double digit amount of damage. When the PCs are out of combat, utility abilities make them more or less able to infiltrate anything and fast-talk anyone.
The PCs are level 14. The big offenders are Tome of Battle stuff (a PC Swordsage who likes Shadow Hand style and Rings of Invisibility) and creative use of magic items.
Uh, dude... That's not even optimization. At all. That's just playing the game as it was always intended to be played at high levels. The only strong PCs in your party seems to be the Artificer, really (Wizard looks incompetent). The rest are mediocre or blatantly subpar and probably only effective because of the artificer and bonus gear. If you cannot challenge something as mediocre and tame as multiclass ToB characters, the only solution for you is not running high-level games at all. The real (practical) optimization, like a Wizard/IotSV, or playng a Druid with a solid choice of wildshape forms and animal companions, or a Divine Metamagic Cleric, or an Artificer who can cast like 50 spells of the highest available level per day, will make you cry tears of blood. You should say to your players, that you really, really appeciate their consideration in not unleashing overpowered PCs on your game, but that you'd like to start a new game at low level.
EDIT: If everyone is really involved in the current game, just throw at them waves of over-CRed opposition, until you see that the party is at the limit of their endurace, or whatever. So the party both feel badass for destroying so many enemies, and will be challenged. Do not calculate EXP by the rules, give out whatever they are supposed to get. If the party is not adamant about the latter, almost anything can be used to challenge them (as long as it has prerequisite stuff everything should have anyway, like True Seeing), as they are stil relying on melee.
one of my biggest problems with pathfinder, is that they have converted to the fixed xp amount per monster. And that they have a completely unrealistic idea of what amounts to a tough encounter.
Pretty sure someone in the beginning of the post suggested 16 cr 1 or 2 mobs for a party lvl 7, and that this should be a standard encounter. My PCs wouldnt even bother waking up for that fight, so in that sence he might be right :-), but i think any lvl 7 char can prolly solo 16 cr 1 or 2 mobs, let alone a party of them.
What i have changed, is handing out xp as i see fit, and ditch the tables on CR calculation of a lot of mobs.
I think what im trying to say is, just throw 4 cultists (they were fighting those right?) at them, and make them lvl 11-13 give one of them half fiend for fun, let one be rogue, 2 fighters and a sorcerer. Just use the base from RAW, let them be buffed by their God or spirits, to emulate magic items, resulting in the PCs not getting any for the enounter. You could then throw in a young Ice worm like they fought earlyer, and i think they would be about ready to cry.
If you make about two fights like this, and THEN give them a boss fight against a single mob. Then the boss fight will be a tough encounter, since you have drained most of their abilitys (dont give them time to sleep).
Also a quick hint for the BBEG, if your party crushes the monsters with sneak attack and crits, a single fortification armour on him will make any rogue and crit fighter weep.
so basicly my two scents is, use multiple mobs, and at high level you need to throw in class levels to keep some veriaty from the 5 mobs a CR in the monsters guide. Use terrain to the monsters advantage, and dont make them do single encounters only. 4 encounters in a row will make the party feel truly epic, as they will get their arse hair burned a bit :-)
To clarify my earlier statement about XP, if the party insists about getting what they are due by the rules, my advice is obviously useless. (You can use CR system breakpoints to produce monsters that are way stronger than they are supposed to be, but don't. This is both a dick move, and a declaration of optimization war, which can only poison the game, and which you won't be able to win fairly, if your current party seems too tough for you.)
In this case just do not use any monsters but dragons and outsiders. Reskin them if dragons and outsiders do not fit the campaign. Other monsters, if they haven't completely dropped from the playing field by CR 14, are weaker than these categories and/or depend on a few tricks that can be easily negated by party that knows better than charge head-on at everything. And as was said before, do not use solo monsters.
As a side note, this thread is killing my faith in humanity...
And stuff like this is WHY this thread makes me lose faith in humanity:
Well, nobody's provided this advice yet, so... here's how our DM challenged us in epic level play.
Sure, if the party still plays like it is level 5, challenging it is no biggie. Let's see.
1. Attack them while they're sleeping. They've not yet re-memorized spells. They're not in armor. They don't have buffs up. Their weapons, items and potions are not on them. And don't allow any "I always sleep with all my items on me!" nonsense.
And epic parties sleep outside of extradimensional spaces and domains of deities that like them most since when?
2. Separate the party. My DM got us into a battle in which we were each in simultaneous one on one fights with an opponent who had the same schtick or used the opposite approach. Cleric vs. Wizard. Brute vs. Speed guy. Brute vs. Brute. It was frickin' awesome.
And why the party didn't say "who cares, we all can fly and teleport, so let's gang on one enemy at a time, instead"?
3. Anti-magic fights are always cool.
...When you want to give PCs free EXP. Doing anything else with them requires ridiculous stuff like exploiting spell area shaping (which will likely just make the party die), or GM's fiat.
4. Have them in a dream world adventure. In their dreams, they've been regressed to kids, they're being hunted by an enemy, and the best way to win is to find a way to wake up. Best thing? The dream world's rules shift. Frequently. PCs might want to figure out how to control those shifts or initiate them yourself.
Why, yes, when you throw away the entirety actual rules of the game, challenging PC is no biggie. How it is at all relevant to the thread, though?
5. Sunder. Every magic weapon is vulnerable to that one. Give fair warning to your players by having the ginormous opponent sunder something big in the flavor text introducing the opponent. Watch the fighters figure out what their backup weapons are and draw those instead.
Translation: "Stop playing gimped characters, guys! Epic levels are for magic users".
6. Archers with Long Range sniping. Do you have any idea what the spot penalty is to find a sniper a half mile away?
That's the archer's problem, though. Sure, if the party got used to the fact that the inivisibilty is useless (as it probably did), he might chase them away. Once.
7. Diplomacy missions. If you're twinked out for combat, you probably don't have a great face man. Time to put on your RP hats for a night.
Assuming you're not insane enough to actually use Diplomacy rules in an epic game, see the answer to the point #4. Also: "We're epic level spellcasters, you know. Do you REALLY want to get in our way?"
8. Propaganda. Charisma villains suck to fight. They don't fight you. They ruin you. They hire bards to malign you, spread false rumors, diplomacy ex-lovers into writing tell-all books, use influence to make it impossible for you to get an audience with anyone important...
Who cares? Not like gods and other beings who actually can do something you care about or have something you want will be fooled by such petty things.
Worst of all, they might use these techniques to make it so that one person in the party gets all the credit, hoping to turn the PCs against one another.
Like epic-level PCs care whom muggles give credit for saving their world from a certain doom, or something.
9. Repeat after me: MIRROR OF OPPOSITION.
Will work only once as well. Not like epic characters actually need to use normal sight. Also, totally sucks at providing measured challenge.
They do sound whiney, but the issue is also that the DM is not ready for high level play, IMHO. If anyone told me how to run a game I would stop right then, and one of them would be running.I like DeathQuaker's suggestion.
But is restarting the game a viable option? Pick an adventure path that starts the group at first level, and tell them that you're "taking a break" from the normal game. Then get them to start new characters - at first level. Have them roll up characters to block the min/maxing (all rolls witnessed). Run the path.
I hope pachristian was actually supporting my first suggestion, which was to mix things up with non-combat challenges.
But if the OP is having trouble with high level play, and the players aren't being jerks, then starting a new game at first level is probably the best option.
You could always drop them in a room with a bunch of bored Kender, and you can use Paizo to reproduce them with halflings using the Taunt ability feat, the extra traits and feats that healp for fearless and the halfling staff sling :)
Two words
MIRROR MATCH !
Evil God frustrated with his minions lack of ability to kill the group uses magic to make abberent duplicates of them.
Then throw additonal tough monsters with the duplicates and you've now got a serious challenge for the group.
you know thier tactics so use all thier own dirty trick rights back in thier face
that more than anything else will make them see how broken thier stuff is ;)
better yet *if* they manage to win somehow have all the abberants disentriagte into pools of goo, including all thier duplicate gear so they group get nothing out of fighting them ;)
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I'm back from the front lines. Ran my game recently, using the new statblocks I cooked up with some advice from this thread. I picked some aberration-appropriate and sufficiently scary templates (Half-Farspawn, Thoon Thrall, Voidmind, and Feral) and went to work optimizing the class builds and abilities of the Mindflayer's minions, and put a Beholder Mage in charge of them.
EDIT: The whole "Mindflayers use thralls" flavor text makes it really easy to justify a room full of bad guys being a boss fight. It took the advice from this thread to remind me that Mindflayers aren't dumb, a creature with an average Int of 19 and an average Wis of 17 isn't going to let itself get caught alone by the PCs, even if they are invisible. Lazy (and paranoid) jerks like the mindflayers would probably have a room full of thralls waiting on them hand and foot even when they're just kicking back and reading. I assume thralls are like appliances and/or pets to them.
The Half-Farspawn template is a winner. Blindsight made the whole "invisible to all senses" thing the party was pulling off (ring of invisibility plus fly [or step of the dancing moth] plus remove scent) completely pointless. The party only survived through clever use of Magic Circle Against Evil (it disabled several enemies by virtue of disrupting the Mindlflayers' dominate powers over their thralls) and the high-ac Swordsage still took some significant damage from the perfect-striking half-farspawn githzerai monk/fighter/swordsage thrall in the process of extracting the party. Originally, I was worried they were going to try to sneak their way through to the Elder Brain and end the campaign early by tangling with it, not so much this time. Blindsight is going to make this much harder.
I'm aware there's a feat, "Darkstalker" which allows a stealthy character to evade Blindsight, but the player doesn't know about it yet and I've got at least until the next time the character gains a level to prepare for the possibility that she does find out about it. Soon enough, the characters will be approaching the levels in which encountering Wizards who have had arcane sight made permanent, meaning that the Wizard can see the illusion aura approaching and knows what the right time to cast "see invisibility" would be.
I had not caught the new CR rules about giving monsters class levels, but I'm using them now! Next game they're looking at a Mindflayer Cleric of the Dragon Below who can buff up a thrall army beyond belief and then batter down the PC's own defenses, softening them up for thrall attack.
One other issue I've been having is that the PCs, due to the Artificer, have a mobile base of operations and troop transport in the form of a bag of holding. It's become standard procedure to allow the whole party to benefit from the swordsage's stealth capabilities by having them all hide in the bag of holding (passing around a few bottles of air) and then start battles and ambushes by leaping out of the bag of holding, meaning even the noisiest and least graceful party members can sneak into the "boss fight" room. Unfortunately, I can't have the monsters just "aim for the bag" because the high-dex pc carries it around, even during battle, in order to protect it from enemies.
Only solution I can think of is to have somebody attempt a sunder on it. The Swordsage, due to multiclassing between classes that have mid or low BAB, has a mediocre CMD, which is not an issue that usually comes up because she could Shadow Jaunt out of a grapple and doesn't really "tank" enough to care about being bullrushed often. However, as I understand Sunder, it can target any visible item "held or worn" by the target, and since the bag of holding is a cloth bag that will be destroyed if it is cut or torn in any way, it's not likely to need more than a point of damage or two to be destroyed. Even if this sunder attempt doesn't work, I can be sure that the party will be less eager to utilize every possible advantage of the bag of holding from that point forward.
EDIT: I also took the liberty of rebuilding some of the MM and Bestiary critters by not only adding templates to taste, but also by changing out some of the less-used feats for scarier stuff from the expansion books and some of the more broken feats the PCs are using. I'm becoming a big fan of Mindsight (requires that you possess some form of always-on telepathy to take the feat, allows you to flawlessly detect the presences of all minds in a 100 foot radius) and Agile Tyrant (allows a beholder to point an additional eye in the same direction, which basically means at least one more eye-ray attack per round). I'm going to try to go through and rebuild many of the monsters I plan on using extensively, so that the feat choices reflect monsters at the higher end of their CR rather than the lower end...in addition to giving 3.5 monsters the "advanced" template as suggested in official conversion guidelines.
Wraithstrike - somehow I never got that email. Checked that address several times. Did I type it wrong? ivan.shadowski@gmail.com
I'm aware there's a feat, "Darkstalker" which allows a stealthy character to evade Blindsight, but the player doesn't know about it yet and I've got at least until the next time the character gains a level to prepare for the possibility that she does find out about it. Soon enough, the characters will be approaching the levels in which encountering Wizards who have had arcane sight made permanent, meaning that the Wizard can see the illusion aura approaching and knows what the right time to cast "see invisibility" would be.
What is his stealth modifier? If you need a living walking radar, let me know.
Unfortunately, I can't have the monsters just "aim for the bag" because the high-dex pc carries it around, even during battle, in order to protect it from enemies.
In 3.5 Dex would matter. In pathfinder the only thing that matters is that your CMB can beat his CMD check when you use sunder. If want to attack from range the fighter(ranged variant in the APG) can sunder from a distance.
Wraithstrike - somehow I never got that email. Checked that address several times. Did I type it wrong? ivan.shadowski@gmail.com
I will see what happened. Check the threads again in about 15 for a reply if you see nothing in your email.
I had the right email, and it did not get returned to me as an incorrect address. It may have went to your junk folder. I forwarded it again just now.
...I want to do is scare them so badly they *beg* me to roll the "allowed books list" back to Core/APG only, or give them optimization fatigue...
...Most of the issue comes from being unable to challenge the party. I've actually gotten a reputation for running pushover combats. Last session was the first time in several weeks that a PC has taken a double digit amount of damage...
Shadows.
In 3.5 they only need to the the touch AC, unless they have a ghost touch they have a 50% miss chance even with magic weapons, and as a CR 13 you can send 32 of them or a pack of four greater shadows as a 12.
...everyone's favorite - the Rust Monster. It is unlikely to do much damage to PCs of there level but save or loose item will really scare most PCs. They'll loose maybe a item, and that's if you send 32 as a CR 13.
...Pretty sure someone in the beginning of the post suggested 16 cr 1 or 2 mobs for a party lvl 7, and that this should be a standard encounter. My PCs wouldnt even bother waking up for that fight, so in that sence he might be right :-), but i think any lvl 7 char can prolly solo 16 cr 1 or 2 mobs, let alone a party of them...
I'm talking about concrete and you're talking about oranges. There just isn't much over lap.
It doesn't matter if his PCs win. It doesn't matter if they win easily. It doesn't matter if they win easily without being in any real danger. It DOES matters if he scares them. That's it. When you start asking for touch ACs all it is going to take is 1 of the 32 to hit for the rest of them to be afraid, and at least one will. If they loose one low value item, a master work dagger even, then they'll be afraid of loosing there uber +4 Boots of *** Kicking. And it might even be better if they don't really get too worked up when they first see them, and think it'll be a cake fight. It'll make the "Oh S***" moment that much scarier.
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What is his stealth modifier? If you need a living walking radar, let me know.
I believe it is in the mid thirties. I don't have the character sheet in front of me, but the average check result is in the forties, and it's crept above 50 once.
This character is usually nigh-unto-undetectable, because of the aforementioned combo (Ring of Invisibility, Step of the Dancing Moth [ToB], and Remove Scent [SpC, I think]). Blindsight and blindsense are the only "always on" ability I am aware of that beats all of these things. True Seeing and See Invisibility work too, but their limited duration means those only come into play when the occasional monster has True Seeing as an always on ability, or usually when the Swordsage has already started a fight, and then the casters can start throwing those spells around. Sadly for me, it means most fights start at the PCs' advantage, and they can usually skip ahead to the "boss room". Blindsight is the one thing that stops it, at least temporarily.
What is his stealth modifier? If you need a living walking radar, let me know.I believe it is in the mid thirties. I don't have the character sheet in front of me, but the average check result is in the forties, and it's crept above 50 once.
This character is usually nigh-unto-undetectable, because of the aforementioned combo (Ring of Invisibility, Step of the Dancing Moth [ToB], and Remove Scent [SpC, I think]). Blindsight and blindsense are the only "always on" ability I am aware of that beats all of these things. True Seeing and See Invisibility work too, but their limited duration means those only come into play when the occasional monster has True Seeing as an always on ability, or usually when the Swordsage has already started a fight, and then the casters can start throwing those spells around. Sadly for me, it means most fights start at the PCs' advantage, and they can usually skip ahead to the "boss room". Blindsight is the one thing that stops it, at least temporarily.
Detect Magic takes care of that. They can't see him per say, but the magical auras are there. The next step is to sound the alarm, and cast see invis.
You should also remember that even if he is invisible his affect on the environment is not. Make him have to open doors. Once that door opens the monster should know someone is in the room. I will also assume the party is being dumped out of the bag. Don't let them choose squares. They end up where ever they end up. The alarm spell is also a great spell. If you put it on one side of the door the PC's will assume the other side is safe. This is a trick used by one of the bad guys I sent you. If you still did not get that email send me one at w33w33@aol.com, and I will reply to you. I mentally got a 30 without trying so 30 is about right.
It's become standard procedure to allow the whole party to benefit from the swordsage's stealth capabilities by having them all hide in the bag of holding (passing around a few bottles of air) and then start battles and ambushes by leaping out of the bag of holding, meaning even the noisiest and least graceful party members can sneak into the "boss fight" room.
O-o Getting into and out of a bag 'o holding could be harder than getting into and out of a room!
Detect Magic takes care of that.
No, it doesn't. Not only no one concentrates all the time, there are several low-level spells for masking your aura, accesible both to the wizard and the artificer. The only thing that are hard to foil are blindsight and mindsight.