i have a small problem, i have a character concept i want to play.
i want to play a commando style character who can ware up to medium armor move faster while stealthing waring that armor, can move without leaving a trace.
the big problem is that if i want to do this i need to multiclass as a fighter of 3rd level, a rogue of 2nd level, a ranger of 7th level and a druid of 3rd level.
now should i try out this multiclass character who ends up getting a bunch of abilities i don't want or should i just make my own base class?
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i have a small problem, i have a character concept i want to play.
i want to play a commando style character who can ware up to medium armor move faster while stealthing waring that armor, can move without leaving a trace.
the big problem is that if i want to do this i need to multiclass as a fighter of 3rd level, a rogue of 2nd level, a ranger of 7th level and a druid of 3rd level.
now should i try out this multiclass character who ends up getting a bunch of abilities i don't want or should i just make my own base class?
I would do neither. I would suggest making a ranger that moves into a prestige class at level 6. The prestige class should be called something like "Commando" and feature a full BAB, no spell progression, good fort and will save, and special abilities that have your character with all the desired abilities by character level 15.
Prestige classes are the perfect mechanism for making this kind of character concept, one that fits well within a base class, but offers a customized suite of abilities at higher levels to suit the concept.
Thats what I would have any player in any game I run do. It is a lot more intelligible than the F3/R2/Rgr7/Drd3 that you are proposing. (And your character stats won't lag behind a sole class character much either)
:)
medium armor problem is easily solved by mithral making it light armor and that agile breastplate has a low skill check to begin with.
as for move faster while stealthed
perhaps your looking for a walk through shadows type ability that allows you to use shadows to move alot faster
i appreciate the ideas, i am not a fan of prestige classes so i dont think i would make one but thanks for the idea.
what it comes down to is this, what i want the character to have is trackless step, armor training, woodland stride, fast stealth (rogue talent), and hide in plain sight. these are the basic abilities i want this character to have
what it comes down to is this, what i want the character to have is trackless step, armor training, woodland stride, fast stealth (rogue talent), and hide in plain sight. these are the basic abilities i want this character to have
Might look ugly but
Rogue 2
Druid 3
Shadowdancer 1
Fighter 3+
gets you everything you want, grab a 4th level of druid if you want wildshaping as a utility power, no to mention some level 1 and 2 spells
rogue 2 gets you evasion and sneak attack and that fast stealth talent
shadowdancer 1 which you can easily get the feats for for hide in plain sight. be aware that dim light is considered the lighting condition if you are in an open field at midnight under a full moon, not as common as people think. e.g. shadows tree's make during the day are not areas of dim light you can hide in.
You'd end up with BAB 17 and 4 base attacks
taking 3 base classes you acutally get a nice saves bump since they offer +2 to start on their good saves which stack
Fighter gets enough bonus feats to do pretty much whatever you want with the build
however
you can take up to 4 levels of rogue or druid and shadowdancer without reducing your max BAB of 17 if you wanted to grab +2d6 sneak attacks or wildshape or shadowcall or shadow jump.
Taking the minimum levels for each of those abilites you have everything by 8th level, add it up see if its something you'd like to play.
as for Progression, it would depend heavily on what you wanted to be able to do first.
Fighter 1
Rogue 1
would be a solid start.
btw if you DM is anything like my DM he'll appluad you for making a flavourfull charcater and if it mechanically weak in the party he'll throw some extra feats or abilites your way to make things more fun
other than maybe sneak attack those classes have class abilities i dont care about and just dont want and that is why i wonder if i should just make my own class
other than maybe sneak attack those classes have class abilities i dont care about and just dont want and that is why i wonder if i should just make my own class
well just beucase a class has abilites dosent mean you need to focus on them.
when i all comes down to it your roleplay the abilites you want to bring out the flavour of your charcter, and just gloss over the others.
and there are some abilites you could probably use
e.g.
Druid level 1 spell Obsurcing Mist
call it a smoke bomb if you want, basically your laying down concealment to make going stealthed much easier.
there are often ways to work existing abilites you may initally think are not part of your charcter concept that can be renamed and fluff explained to make them fit.
If you really really don't want to try and make it work within the rules then I offer this simple alternative
Take Fighter/Rogue and pay for the abilites you want from other classes with feats.
e.g.
Feat druidic Knowlege req x ranks in knowlege nature
trackless step feat , req druidic knowlege
woodland stride feat, req druidic knowlege
The way you'll end up being a
Fighter 17/ Rogue 2 / Shadowdancer 1
with having taken 3 feats and spent some skill points to get woodland stride and trackless step
I think it importantly to keep some multiclass beucase it balences the build to benefit your getting by spending feats to get class features
what it comes down to is this, what i want the character to have is trackless step, armor training, woodland stride, fast stealth (rogue talent), and hide in plain sight. these are the basic abilities i want this character to have
There is the Dread Commando from Heroes of Battle. The "Armored Ease" class ability updated to Pathfinder could function the same way as "Armor Training" for the fighter. It gets fast stealth at level four. Needs a BAB of +5 so I believe that seven levels of Druid plus one level of Shadowdancer then taking this class ought to do it for you.
It might also be worth taking a look at the Spell-less Ranger from Kobold Quarterly #11 - the class has some Scout like abilities, as well as stealth abilities and might very well be more or less what you are looking for.
Thank you Marc for making that class. I am loving it in Kingmaker.
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i appreciate the ideas, i am not a fan of prestige classes so i dont think i would make one but thanks for the idea.
Wait you have no problem with mixing 4 classes, or creating a new class, but PrCs bother you?
That's like saying I love bread dough, peperoni, tomato sauce, and mozerralla, but I don't like pizza.
What bothers you about PrCs so much that doesn't bother you about base classes or class dipping?
Don't forget Rangers start casting spells at 4th level (with a high enough Wisdom) and on their 1st level spell list is Pass Without Trace. So they can do some of what's desired before 7th level.
If you're not wanting to do crazy multiclassing, what I would suggest is a slight alteration in combat-style-concept and go for a Ranger in Light Armor with a shield to help boost his armor class (if using core only, go with TWF and use the Shield as the second 'weapon'; if using APG use the Sword and Shield combat style). Later when he can get mithral breastplate (which counts as light armor) he can upgrade to that as others suggest.
The only thing the Ranger doesn't have that it seems like you want to do is the Fast Stealth Rogue Talent. A quick dip into two levels of Rogue I think would be fine (and far less complicated than what's otherwise being proposed). Plus a dip into rogue would give trapfinding which could come in handy for the concept.
Alternately, if you're willing to give up Ranger spells (meaning giving up Pass Without Trace as a spell--but hey, there's potions for that), the Skirmisher variant in the APG has a Hunter's Trick called Chameleon step that allows you to move up to double your speed with no penalties to stealth.
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Maybe I'm dense, but personally I don't see why a straight single-class Ranger can't accomplish what the OP wants.i appreciate the ideas, i am not a fan of prestige classes so i dont think i would make one but thanks for the idea.
Wait you have no problem with mixing 4 classes, or creating a new class, but PrCs bother you?
That's like saying I love bread dough, peperoni, tomato sauce, and mozerralla, but I don't like pizza.
What bothers you about PrCs so much that doesn't bother you about base classes or class dipping?
I don't either, especially since the game allows you to research and create your own spells and the ranger gets magic. I just don't get the dislike he expressed at the idea of a PrC when he's perfectly fine with strining low levels of four base classes. I can see the problem with the glut of PrCs in 3.5, but not what is wrong with PrCs as a concept.
I have two suggestion the first is the ranger, highly modified with a newly created arctype. Work with your GM on creating the arctype you desire. The second is a new class altogether, I personal disagree with the opinion that creating new individual classes for specialized characters is inherently wrong, but you should talk to your GM before you start creating a new class, he (she) will have their own opinion on that subject.
Heavy multi-classing tend to give too many unneeded extra abilities so I wouldn't suggest it. Bottom line work with you GM for an amicable solution.
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It might also be worth taking a look at the Spell-less Ranger from Kobold Quarterly #11 - the class has some Scout like abilities, as well as stealth abilities and might very well be more or less what you are looking for.Thank you Marc for making that class. I am loving it in Kingmaker.
Hey, thanks! Glad it's working out for you!
I have a new Pathfinder base class under consideration for the KQ Winter issue as well ... I also have Exalted Domains and Vanguard class out right now with Super Genius Games, if you'd like to check 'em out :)
Sorry for the threadjack!
i appreciate the ideas, i am not a fan of prestige classes so i dont think i would make one but thanks for the idea.
Wait you have no problem with mixing 4 classes, or creating a new class, but PrCs bother you?
That's like saying I love bread dough, peperoni, tomato sauce, and mozerralla, but I don't like pizza.
What bothers you about PrCs so much that doesn't bother you about base classes or class dipping?
I'd say no favored class bonuses.
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I'd say no favored class bonuses.i appreciate the ideas, i am not a fan of prestige classes so i dont think i would make one but thanks for the idea.
Wait you have no problem with mixing 4 classes, or creating a new class, but PrCs bother you?
That's like saying I love bread dough, peperoni, tomato sauce, and mozerralla, but I don't like pizza.
What bothers you about PrCs so much that doesn't bother you about base classes or class dipping?
he'd be missing out on that with 4 base classes as well
that is one of the reasons i am considering just making my own base class
Sounds like the Fochlucan Lyrist prestige class (without the spellcasting).
I'd say no favored class bonuses.
that is one of the reasons i am considering just making my own base class
I don't see the problem with missing only a few either skill or hit points. If you take a PrC to maximum levels, thats only ten. Seems like making a whole new class is more effort than is worth.
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I'd say no favored class bonuses.that is one of the reasons i am considering just making my own base classI don't see the problem with missing only a few either skill or hit points. If you take a PrC to maximum levels, thats only ten. Seems like making a whole new class is more effort than is worth.
That's assuming he even makes it a ten level PrC lots of PrCs were five level PrCs.
That's assuming he even makes it a ten level PrC lots of PrCs were five level PrCs.
The one I suggested, Dread Commando, is only five levels. Pretty sweet too I think.
Ranger/Dread Commando seems to be the best option, or Fighter/Dread Commando. Maybe with some rogue levels...
Wouldn't it be easier to create a new Ranger archetype? Looks nicer on the character sheet and can feel totally custom while having a skeleton to build on.
Wouldn't it be easier to create a new Ranger archetype? Looks nicer on the character sheet and can feel totally custom while having a skeleton to build on.
In that vien why not just add some additonal options for the skermisher archtype for ranger to cover all the abilities you want