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Apologies, back for another obsessive question (2) relating to the Ancient Osirion Deities,
I really like the Domain rules changes for 2e, and after reading Mark Seifter's blog I have to ask:
1. Even if we do not get further lore material on more obscure gods like the Ancient Osirion Pantheon, could we at least get their new 2e entry info like updated Domains, Edicts, Anathema, channeled energy and potential alignments (if different from their 1e entries)?
While I would love deific obediences/boons and summon lists, those of us that love this pantheron would likewise love the above as at least something.
It feels very weird summoning inevetibles rather than psychopomps or more "Egyptian-flavored" outsiders as a LG Paladin of Anubis...
Eventually, I suppose, but we've got other things to handle before we start updating niche content. And as cool as the Ancient Osirion Pantheon is... it IS niche content for the setting. We simply cannot update 10+ years of content we've created for Pathfinder all at once. We have to pick and choose.

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Sorry, Forgot the rules.
This is the second Question:2. Wouldn't the Ancient Osirion PAntheon have egyptian-themed outsiders?
Like Angels, Inevitables, Demons, Daimons, etc that match Osirion?. Tian Xia get Oni, Rakshasa are Vudran...
Maybe, but we've not explored that possibility yet. Probably won't either, because as I mentioned previously, it's niche content. And beyond that, it's a pantheon that has in large part moved on. We want/need to focus our attention in the short term on the core pantheon as part of the edition change.

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I'm currently getting caught up on Channel Zero (Finished Butcher's Block last night). What do you think of the show, and do you have a favorite season?
If you haven't watched it, I think you would really enjoy it. It leans a lot more heavily into cosmic horror and lovecraftian tones than say...American Horror Story.
Love the show. It's really astounding, and the concept of bringing creepypasta to life in this way is something that shoulda happened years ago.
I've not yet seen Dream Door, but I've seen seasons 1 to 3. And Butcher's Block is not only hands-down my favorite of the 3, but it's in my top 10 TV shows of all time, up there with Game of Thrones, The Terror, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, etc.

Gorethel |

Gorethel wrote:Maybe, but we've not explored that possibility yet. Probably won't either, because as I mentioned previously, it's niche content. And beyond that, it's a pantheon that has in large part moved on. We want/need to focus our attention in the short term on the core pantheon as part of the edition change.Sorry, Forgot the rules.
This is the second Question:2. Wouldn't the Ancient Osirion PAntheon have egyptian-themed outsiders?
Like Angels, Inevitables, Demons, Daimons, etc that match Osirion?. Tian Xia get Oni, Rakshasa are Vudran...
Thank you for answering may questions.
I was unaware I had communicated anything contrary to fact that the Ancient Osirion Pantheon's presence in Pathfinder is niche. It is wonderfully and terribly niche.
I also respect and recognize the need to emphasise the company's own creative content, particularly those most closely associated with the brand.
Certainly we lovers'of niche gods, mechanics, classes and locations understand that we have to limit our expectations and that the content's narrative must follow carefully crafted, prearranged plans as directed by the kinds of stories yourselves, as designers, wish to tell and calculate as being best for the company and community.
Yet the nice thing about Pathfinder I thought was the celebration of players' quirky love for the little-known and obscure, mainstream mechanics, classes, locations and deities' larger importance to the game notwithstanding?
If that sentiment is changing however, then I appreciate that you were so frank to tell me so, and overall such a move is probably the direction most in the community desire and ought expect.
One must instead content themselves to mobilize one's purchasing power towards those rpg companies and content both available and most desired by themselves.

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James Jacobs wrote:Gorethel wrote:Maybe, but we've not explored that possibility yet. Probably won't either, because as I mentioned previously, it's niche content. And beyond that, it's a pantheon that has in large part moved on. We want/need to focus our attention in the short term on the core pantheon as part of the edition change.Sorry, Forgot the rules.
This is the second Question:2. Wouldn't the Ancient Osirion PAntheon have egyptian-themed outsiders?
Like Angels, Inevitables, Demons, Daimons, etc that match Osirion?. Tian Xia get Oni, Rakshasa are Vudran...
Thank you for answering may questions.
I was unaware I had communicated anything contrary to fact that the Ancient Osirion Pantheon's presence in Pathfinder is niche. It is wonderfully and terribly niche.
I also respect and recognize the need to emphasise the company's own creative content, particularly those most closely associated with the brand.
Certainly we lovers'of niche gods, mechanics, classes and locations understand that we have to limit our expectations and that the content's narrative must follow carefully crafted, prearranged plans as directed by the kinds of stories yourselves, as designers, wish to tell and calculate as being best for the company and community.
Yet the nice thing about Pathfinder I thought was the celebration of players' quirky love for the little-known and obscure, mainstream mechanics, classes, locations and deities' larger importance to the game notwithstanding?
If that sentiment is changing however, then I appreciate that you were so frank to tell me so, and overall such a move is probably the direction most in the community desire and ought expect.
One must instead content themselves to mobilize one's purchasing power towards those rpg companies and content both available and most desired by themselves.
The sentiment isn't changing at all. It's just that we can't do everything at once.

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Mr. James Jacobs,
Say a mortal managed to leave the planar sphere/multiverse where Golarion resides and arrive in another. If that mortal dies there are they subject to and claimed by the gods and mechanisms of death for that new multiverse or does Pharasma cross over to claim them?
Yes.

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Related to Channel Zero, they have had a propensity of creating really great and original monsters. Do you have a favorite?
I admit, I would love to see constructs based around the Tooth Child and Meat Servant in Pathfinder
Many of those creatures were created by the internet in various creepypasta stories, but yeah, they're pretty rad! I like the Pestilent God a lot.

The NPC |

The NPC wrote:Yes.Mr. James Jacobs,
Say a mortal managed to leave the planar sphere/multiverse where Golarion resides and arrive in another. If that mortal dies there are they subject to and claimed by the gods and mechanisms of death for that new multiverse or does Pharasma cross over to claim them?
Now to reverse it. What if a foreign soul died in within Pharasma's multiverse. Would she claim the soul or send to its home sphere?

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James Jacobs wrote:Now to reverse it. What if a foreign soul died in within Pharasma's multiverse. Would she claim the soul or send to its home sphere?The NPC wrote:Yes.Mr. James Jacobs,
Say a mortal managed to leave the planar sphere/multiverse where Golarion resides and arrive in another. If that mortal dies there are they subject to and claimed by the gods and mechanisms of death for that new multiverse or does Pharasma cross over to claim them?
You're assuming that the Pathfinder multiverse works the same as D&D I think. It doesn't work the same as D&D. The assumption I make with Pathfinder is that the Material Plane is large enough to hold all possible RPG campaigns, and that the great beyond is large enough to hold all possible afterlifes and pantheons for all those worlds, and Pharasma judges all the souls.
Feel free to adjust as you wish for your homebrew, of course, but that's how it works canonically for Pathfinder.

Aenigma |

I didn't know Yog-Sothoth is appropriate for PCs to worship. Now I found out he and some other beings in the Mythos are not evil. I shall try a PC cleric of Azathoth next time. But I have always thought that all outer gods and great old ones are evil beyond redemption. Turns out some of them like Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, and Bokrug are nice and decent enough to not be considered as evil?

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I didn't know Yog-Sothoth is appropriate for PCs to worship. Now I found out he and some other beings in the Mythos are not evil. I shall try a PC cleric of Azathoth next time. But I have always thought that all outer gods and great old ones are evil beyond redemption. Turns out some of them like Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, and Bokrug are nice and decent enough to not be considered as evil?
They're neither nice nor decent.
Azathoth is mindless, or nearly so, and simply doesn't care anymore about anything other than entropy. He's kinda like Groetus in that way. Certainly not nice, in that he doesn't care about you or me or anything else.
Yog-Sothoth is impartial to morality, above it and apart from it. Not nice, but he doesn't care about our feelings at all. We're just insignificant, at best.
Bokrug values his worshipers and isn't vindictive toward them, which is unusual for a creature of the Elder Mythos, and won't bother anyone else as long as they don't bother him or his faithful. But not nice.
Yig is arguably the least antagonistic of all the Elder Mythos deities, but even he isn't interested in being anyone's friend.
Not being evil doesn't mean you're nice and decent. It just means you're not evil.

Aenigma |

Aside from Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, Bokrug and Yig, I also found out Abhoth, Mhar, Tawil at'Umr are not evil. Do you think these non-evil gods(including Azathoth, Bokrug, and Yig) are appropriate for PCs to worship? I know they are not evil, but they are surely crazy and not good for our mental health. A devout worshiper of a god should behave like his god. But behaving and thinking like a great old one would surely produce ill results. Thus can I assume that, except for Yog-Sothoth perhaps, even those non-evil outer gods and great old ones are not suitable for PCs to worship?

Pnakotus Detsujin |

Hello, Mr Jacobs (oh, ye might dire Tyrannosaurus).
Again i beseech thy wisdom, this time regarding the Sanity Rules
From what i get, should a character gain immunity to mind affecting effects, it would also become immune to any madness which affects them because a madness produced by the loss of sanity points because "sanity damage are always mind-affecting effects"
Therefore, should a character which is affected by a few madness forms get infected by the "slugspawns", a parasite presented in Pathfinder 47 - Wake of the Watcher - which grants for a time to its host a complete immunity to "mind-affecting effects", would such forms of madness be suppressed while being infected by the slugspawn?
- I'm aware that, a few years ago, you wrote that questions regarding this monster should be asked to Mr McCreary, but i believe this is a question regarding the sanity rules in general, which - by my understanding - are totally in your field.

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Aside from Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, Bokrug and Yig, I also found out Abhoth, Mhar, Tawil at'Umr are not evil. Do you think these non-evil gods(including Azathoth, Bokrug, and Yig) are appropriate for PCs to worship? I know they are not evil, but they are surely crazy and not good for our mental health. A devout worshiper of a god should behave like his god. But behaving and thinking like a great old one would surely produce ill results. Thus can I assume that, except for Yog-Sothoth perhaps, even those non-evil outer gods and great old ones are not suitable for PCs to worship?
ANY deity is appropriate for a PC, if the GM is comfortable with it. In some campaigns, where you might shift the focus from good vs. evil to law vs. chaos, I could see Lawful or Chaotic deities being inappropriate. It's up to the GM what is and isn't appropriate for a PC to worship.

The NPC |

The NPC wrote:James Jacobs wrote:Now to reverse it. What if a foreign soul died in within Pharasma's multiverse. Would she claim the soul or send to its home sphere?The NPC wrote:Yes.Mr. James Jacobs,
Say a mortal managed to leave the planar sphere/multiverse where Golarion resides and arrive in another. If that mortal dies there are they subject to and claimed by the gods and mechanisms of death for that new multiverse or does Pharasma cross over to claim them?
You're assuming that the Pathfinder multiverse works the same as D&D I think. It doesn't work the same as D&D. The assumption I make with Pathfinder is that the Material Plane is large enough to hold all possible RPG campaigns, and that the great beyond is large enough to hold all possible afterlifes and pantheons for all those worlds, and Pharasma judges all the souls.
Feel free to adjust as you wish for your homebrew, of course, but that's how it works canonically for Pathfinder.
I bring up different spheres because the Planar Adventures book brings up the possibility.

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James Jacobs wrote:I bring up different spheres because the Planar Adventures book brings up the possibility.The NPC wrote:James Jacobs wrote:Now to reverse it. What if a foreign soul died in within Pharasma's multiverse. Would she claim the soul or send to its home sphere?The NPC wrote:Yes.Mr. James Jacobs,
Say a mortal managed to leave the planar sphere/multiverse where Golarion resides and arrive in another. If that mortal dies there are they subject to and claimed by the gods and mechanisms of death for that new multiverse or does Pharasma cross over to claim them?
You're assuming that the Pathfinder multiverse works the same as D&D I think. It doesn't work the same as D&D. The assumption I make with Pathfinder is that the Material Plane is large enough to hold all possible RPG campaigns, and that the great beyond is large enough to hold all possible afterlifes and pantheons for all those worlds, and Pharasma judges all the souls.
Feel free to adjust as you wish for your homebrew, of course, but that's how it works canonically for Pathfinder.
Ah. That brushes against something much bigger about the true history of existence and the cycle of creation that we might explore further in upcoming products. Maybe. It's all very much still in the proto-idea stage in my head though so it's not really worth exploring more yet... ;-)

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Hi James!
I hope all is well with you in Paizoland today.
Is there an in-canon reason for what is causing the Inevitables to die out or is that just the result of a slow shift towards aeons?
Yes. They were created eons ago by axiomites to help protect Axis from the proteans, but they're not being made anymore, and with Axis now having a lot more guardians to protect it, and the proteans being less interested in constantly attacking Axis, they're just kinda outdated and winding down. In a way, they're a living incarnation of the inexorable march toward entropy and collapse. You could also see them as a stop-gap defense measure put in place to give aeons the time to be ready to take on the mantle of defending the balance and order of the multiverse.
(Special note: While Dungeons & Draogons maintains that neutrality is the alignment devoted to maintaining balance, I disagree. Balance is order and law and the opposition of chaos and imbalance and instability, and thus the goal of a perfectly balanced existence is inherently lawful. This'll be something that, I hope/suspect, we'll explore more in the next edition of the game, and is one more way we can evolve from the amazing game TSR and then WotC created to give Pathfinder its own identity.
This is certainly something that I can envision gamers arguing about a lot, so please don't do so here—if folks wanna chat about this topic, it should become its own thread.)

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Is it documented who was the king or queen of the elves prior to Telandia's reign? Is this ruler the same who would have guided the elves during their self imposed exile to Soyvirian?
In world, of course it's documented. There's been several kings and queens of Kyonin in between the elves' return to Golarion and Queen Telandia's reign.
But this topic hasn't really ever been important enough for us to explore in print, in part because we've still not done a big book exploring Kyonin or elves, and in part because we still haven't done a significant Adventure Path or adventure set there.
(Second Darkness had a lot more to do than wallow in Kyonin's history... we wanted to focus on the Kyonin of "today" rather than spend too much time going into history that isn't as useful to GMs who, until that point, had pretty much nothing about the elven nation to go with.)

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Is there a source for more information on the Night Heralds? They seem to be involved in Doomsday Dawn and they are briefly covered in Occult Mysteries, but their motives are left somewhat blank.
That's pretty much it for the Night Heralds. Their motives are pretty simple—they believe that the Dominion of the Black is destined to rule Golarion and the rest of creation, and want to be regarded as allies and members of said Dominion once this inevitable event comes to pass, and so they're doing what they can to help it happen. It's kinda similar to the motivation of worshipers of the Great Old Ones and Outer Gods... but less hopeless, since the Dominion is more likely than the Elder Mythos to notice and care about helpers and reward them... even if that reward is merel "We won't kill you and you can follow our rules in the new world order."

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What deity is most opposed to Nyarlathotep (in Osirion or beyond) and do the Ancient Osirion Gods have any relationship (negative or positive) with him?
He heas to be one of the freakiest of the Outer Gods...
Most deities are opposed to him, but Desna's probably his strongest/most vocal rival.
The ancient Osirion Gods' relationship with him is unrevealed—that's a complicated topic, honestly, since in some of the stoies about him, Nyarlathotep kinda pretended to be them to a certain extent. Since we haven't said much about that relationship in print at all, my preference is to say that there was no real relationship between the ancient Osirion Gods and Nyarlathotep that they knew of, but that in fact Nyarlathotep was sneaky and manipulative and tricked those Osirion Gods in subtle ways to eventually engineer the series of events that either brought pain and torment to Osirion, resulted in the Osirion Gods' faith declining, or both.

Pharasmin |

Would there be any potential for having Nyarlathotep posing in the great beyond as a god, unknown to the other gods? I realize that probably wouldn't fit with anything you've developed thus far just because work has already gone into those gods, but would he be able to essentially hide in sheeps clothing and pass himself off for something acceptable while controlling things from behind the scenes?

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Would there be any potential for having Nyarlathotep posing in the great beyond as a god, unknown to the other gods? I realize that probably wouldn't fit with anything you've developed thus far just because work has already gone into those gods, but would he be able to essentially hide in sheeps clothing and pass himself off for something acceptable while controlling things from behind the scenes?
Not really his thing. He's more interested in tricking mortals than he is in tricking the gods. He's already doing fine where he is, based on the Material Plane. No need to fix something that's not broken and all that.

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In the hardcover Book of the Damned, all of the documented oni daimyo are part of the species originally published in an (OGL) hardcover Bestiary, and none is a member of a species published in an AP. Is this because of legal reasons?
Nope. It's because of these two reasons:
1) We didn't have enough space to print oni daimyo for every one of them.
2) Those other oni types have never appeared in a hardcover, so referencing them is trickier since they appeared in softcover books unlikely to be reprinted once they sold out and that had MUCH smaller print runs in the first place, ensuring that a much smaller group of people would even know those oni existed.
There are absolutely more oni daimyo (and demon lords and rakshasa immortals and qlippoth lords and so on) out there than the ones we list in Book of the Damned, but there were only 288 pages of space to put all the stuff we needed to into the book.

Aenigma |

PFRPGrognard wrote:Hi James!
I hope all is well with you in Paizoland today.
Is there an in-canon reason for what is causing the Inevitables to die out or is that just the result of a slow shift towards aeons?
Yes. They were created eons ago by axiomites to help protect Axis from the proteans, but they're not being made anymore, and with Axis now having a lot more guardians to protect it, and the proteans being less interested in constantly attacking Axis, they're just kinda outdated and winding down. In a way, they're a living incarnation of the inexorable march toward entropy and collapse. You could also see them as a stop-gap defense measure put in place to give aeons the time to be ready to take on the mantle of defending the balance and order of the multiverse.
(Special note: While Dungeons & Draogons maintains that neutrality is the alignment devoted to maintaining balance, I disagree. Balance is order and law and the opposition of chaos and imbalance and instability, and thus the goal of a perfectly balanced existence is inherently lawful. This'll be something that, I hope/suspect, we'll explore more in the next edition of the game, and is one more way we can evolve from the amazing game TSR and then WotC created to give Pathfinder its own identity.
This is certainly something that I can envision gamers arguing about a lot, so please don't do so here—if folks wanna chat about this topic, it should become its own thread.)
What? Is Paizo going to inevitables from the game entirely? When was it announced? I didn't know it. I have to ask, what is the reason behind this decision? Why did inevitables become the least favorite outsiders of Paizo? And one more thing. I agree with your notion that neutrality is not the alignment devoted to mainting alance. But then what is the neutrality? I ask this not because I want to start arguing about it, but because I really have no idea what would neutrality mean.

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James Jacobs wrote:What? Is Paizo going to inevitables from the game entirely? When was it announced? I didn't know it. I have to ask, what is the reason behind this decision? Why did inevitables become the least favorite outsiders of Paizo? And one more thing. I agree with your notion that neutrality is not the alignment devoted to mainting alance. But then what is the neutrality? I ask this not because I want to start arguing about it, but because I really have no idea what would neutrality mean.PFRPGrognard wrote:Hi James!
I hope all is well with you in Paizoland today.
Is there an in-canon reason for what is causing the Inevitables to die out or is that just the result of a slow shift towards aeons?
Yes. They were created eons ago by axiomites to help protect Axis from the proteans, but they're not being made anymore, and with Axis now having a lot more guardians to protect it, and the proteans being less interested in constantly attacking Axis, they're just kinda outdated and winding down. In a way, they're a living incarnation of the inexorable march toward entropy and collapse. You could also see them as a stop-gap defense measure put in place to give aeons the time to be ready to take on the mantle of defending the balance and order of the multiverse.
(Special note: While Dungeons & Draogons maintains that neutrality is the alignment devoted to maintaining balance, I disagree. Balance is order and law and the opposition of chaos and imbalance and instability, and thus the goal of a perfectly balanced existence is inherently lawful. This'll be something that, I hope/suspect, we'll explore more in the next edition of the game, and is one more way we can evolve from the amazing game TSR and then WotC created to give Pathfinder its own identity.
This is certainly something that I can envision gamers arguing about a lot, so please don't do so here—if folks wanna chat about this topic, it should become its own thread.)
Inevitables are not going away. They're just getting less important. The reason they're being downplayed in favor of things like aeons is that they're D&D/Wizards of the Coast intellectual property we can use via the open gaming license, but that limits how we can use them in other things like novels that don't use the open gaming license, especially since the word "inevitable" is, unlike the word "demon" or "angel", not a public-domain mythological word for a supernatural race, so it's even harder to use them in a non-OGL product than demons or devils or angels. Also, we're more interested in developing aeons more, so it's a natural swap for us.
And please remember to keep posts to 1 question at a time.

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Is the word inevitable not a public domain? I thought Paizo can use the word freely, because we can see the word inevitable in Bestiary. Am I missing something?
The word "inevitable" is usable, as is the word "beholder", for example. But when a word becomes the name of a made-up creature and us used in that context, it becomes intellectual property.
We can produce game content for inevitables as a race of extraplanar lawful neutral construct-like outsiders because Wizards of the Coast included them as open content, but we can ONLY use them in that way if we use them in a book where we also declare them (and other rules elements) as open content. Novels don't use the OGL, and thus if we wanted to put one of the inevitables we invented in a novel, we can't call them inevitables. Which creates a complicated and awkward disconnect to readers who expect us to say that.
On the other hand, Wizards of the Coast did not put the beholder into open content, and so we can't use that monster at all, even though "beholder" is a regular word. As a many-eyed floating aberration, it's off limits.

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I see. But how can inevitables be replaced with aeons? I mean, aeons are neutral, not lawful neutral. Thus even if Paizo stop using inevitables, there should be a new lawful neutral outsider race. And aeons cannot fill the role, because they are not lawful neutral and they don't live in Axis.
Aeons are shifting to lawful neutral, which is something that I've spoken about here on these boards before. Lawful neutral is a better fit for aeons, helps them not fight for space against psychopomps (which serve MUCH better as a neutral race), and gives us a lawful neutral outsider race we can explore in all sorts of mediums—not just OGL products. Planar Adventures started this ball rolling, in any event, by talking about the role aeons play in Axis on page 173 of that book.
And again, I repeat: we're not going to "STOP" using inevitables.

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You said that neutrality is not the alignment devoted to maintaining balance. I agree with you but then, what would neutrality mean? I honestly have no idea.
Depends. It could mean just not having the intellect or self-awareness to have ethics or morals. Like a snake or a dog or a whale or any other animal or critter of Intelligence 2 or less.
It could mean that they are like psychopomps, and aren't interested in those things because they're focused on a specific "job" that requires impartial and unbiased decisions; they don't care if you're good or evil or lawful or chaotic when they help escort your soul to the Boneyard.
Could be like a druid, which believes in the impartiality of the natural world. A windstorm or a pack of wolves or an earthquake or a wildflower doesn't have a moral or ethical agenda, and a true neutral druid doesn't either.
Could be like a golem; a construct that doesn't have its own personality.

Aenigma |

The Night Heralds believe that the Dominion of the Black is destined to rule Golarion and want to be regarded as members of the Dominion once this inevitable event comes to pass. Then can I assume that they are not evil? I mean, they think it's impossible to stop the Dominion of the Black and thus they try to protect humanity by becoming members of the Dominion? In other words, can they be considered as the well-intentioned extremists?

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James Jacobs wrote:Aeons are shifting to lawful neutral, which is something that I've spoken about here on these boards before.Is this a retcon (as in aeons have always been LN since the beginning), or an actual in-world alignment shift?
More a retcon, but with a little bit of in-world flavor to soften the blow of the retcon.

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Were you aware that BBC Radio did a modernising of
The Case of Charles Dexter Ward?
(Should be available internationally.)

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Were you aware that BBC Radio did a modernising of
The Case of Charles Dexter Ward?(Should be available internationally.)
I was not. Neat!