So, we are waiting just for Lamm and Great Katallin to post. This seems to be going really nicely so far. Wondering what will happen on forward from this
And I am posted, off to an insult laden start. Might have to work out a way to define when Lem is speaking Infernal and when he is speaking common. Oh wait yeah, spoilers'll work. Anyway, any more definition of my familiar face? So far I have decided he is a resolved/obstinate personality, so lots of arguments. Also, I found the fiendish familiar symbiont from the fiend folio which is pretty much exactly what the faces are. So, could it have something similar to the effect that does on spell casters but on my alchemy?
Well, I would suppose since you are alch in the end and don´t really have any caster levels & arcane/divine magic to cast. I think maybe posting some auggestion here might help nightflier out with this, but if you are not considering to multiclass later to something else
Well the two bonuses that a fiendish familiar gives are:
Enhance spellcaster: Treat the spellcasting related ability score as 2 higher when determining bonus spells per day.
Arcane Education: When grafted to a wizard, a fiendish familiar can teach the caster one new spell at each level they can cast. Each time the wizard gains a level they learn one extra spell. If grafted to a sorceror or bard a fiendish familiar can function as a source of spell knowledge as described in the DMG.
The enhance is pretty simple. Treat intelligence as 2 higher for number of extracts per day.
The arcane education could be a new extract learned at each new level or possibly a bonus discovery every 4 levels or something.
That sounds great to me and so far, this is quite open campaing and that would fit perfectly to Lem in this case. Treat intelligence as 2 higher for number of extracts per day. Sounds okey to me since its just 1 extract for both 0 & 1st lvl. Can´t see really harm there.
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Well the two bonuses that a fiendish familiar gives are:
Enhance spellcaster: Treat the spellcasting related ability score as 2 higher when determining bonus spells per day.
Arcane Education: When grafted to a wizard, a fiendish familiar can teach the caster one new spell at each level they can cast. Each time the wizard gains a level they learn one extra spell. If grafted to a sorceror or bard a fiendish familiar can function as a source of spell knowledge as described in the DMG.
The enhance is pretty simple. Treat intelligence as 2 higher for number of extracts per day.
The arcane education could be a new extract learned at each new level or possibly a bonus discovery every 4 levels or something.
I'm gonna reply in more detail tomorrow, but sounds good.
I'm going to France on a skateboard fuelled adventure from Friday morning to Monday evening so I won't be able to post until next week after today.
Actually same for me. Going to Italy for this weekend: Leaving Friday evening and coming back Sunday evening so able to post again on monday
What I have a three day vacation and no ones gona be here. Oh well hope everyone enjoys their trips, have fun.
Night I have a question for you about my sword. At 5th I gain an arcane bonded weapon which will obviously be my elven curve (assuming nothing horrible happens) but would you allow it to be intelligent, I thought it would be interesting to have it with my father's attitude. If you like the idea just let me know when it would be possible to realize this. Also I'm not asking to randomly add it to the sword it has always been its just that Kyth never realized it, and imagined it being excited about battle.
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Night I have a question for you about my sword. At 5th I gain an arcane bonded weapon which will obviously be my elven curve (assuming nothing horrible happens) but would you allow it to be intelligent, I thought it would be interesting to have it with my father's attitude. If you like the idea just let me know when it would be possible to realize this. Also I'm not asking to randomly add it to the sword it has always been its just that Kyth never realized it, and imagined it being excited about battle.
Check out Item Familiar feat in UA.
Hm... Guess that we are still waiting for Lem and Kristophe. Nevertheless, since both me and Lem are off, you can guide us. Got still 7h left for posting :P
Control my PC as you see necessary. I will roll some Diplomacy checks for advance
Diplomacy
Diplomacy
Hm... Guess that we are still waiting for Lem and Kristophe. Nevertheless, since both me and Lem are off, you can guide us. Got still 7h left for posting :P
Control my PC as you see necessary. I will roll some Diplomacy checks for advance
Diplomacy1d20+9
Diplomacy1d20+9
Don't know what you mean waiting for Kristophe. He already mentioned he was going in the room like everybody else ;). He is not very talkative because he doesn't know anybody else here, and technically he's not supposed to be here.
Check out Item Familiar feat in UA.
Checked and liked it also makes me able to slowly "reveal" to me that its intelligent. Will be taking it at 5th unless we manage to get enough gold to enchant items before 3rd lvl.
Apparently Kyth is a golden tongued diplomat, but on the other hand as intimadating as a small puppy.
Now that I'm back I should probably work out the familiar. Will it be like a wizard's familiar, get the alertness and stuff? Obviously won't get the evasion or anything because it is just a face. Seeing as it is bonded and intelligent it could have an Ego score and in some situations take partial control, when Lem uses his mutagen for example.
If the face has evasion does it use your body to block the damage might be more interesting than not having it....
That would actually be very cool. I was trying to think of situations where a battle of wills between Lem and the faces could take place. Wanted to eventually take the Master Chymist prestige class and have the face as the 'Mr Hyde' personality, the evasion would be a good way to lead up to it, the face starting to gain some measure of control over Lem's body.
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Well the two bonuses that a fiendish familiar gives are:
The enhance is pretty simple. Treat intelligence as 2 higher for number of extracts per day.
The arcane education could be a new extract learned at each new level or possibly a bonus discovery every 4 levels or something.
This is a good way to build your familiar. Would you mind writing a progression and post it here? I like your ideas so far, and they can be reused for Anang as well.
Ok crazy off the wall idea not expecting it to work but here goes nothing. After making Kyth I found the Vanguard base class from SGG it is a gish class that has Dx hit dice and medium bab same as bard only larger spell list picking from the wizard\sorcerer list still caps at lvl 6 spells if at all possible will email it to nightflier. Normally don't do this but as we haven't fought nor had me do any bardy things and I found this after finishing him, so its up to GM or the rest of the group if they are against it as well.
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Ok crazy off the wall idea not expecting it to work but here goes nothing. After making Kyth I found the Vanguard base class from SGG it is a gish class that has Dx hit dice and medium bab same as bard only larger spell list picking from the wizard\sorcerer list still caps at lvl 6 spells if at all possible will email it to nightflier. Normally don't do this but as we haven't fought nor had me do any bardy things and I found this after finishing him, so its up to GM or the rest of the group if they are against it as well.
I can wait for a day or two for you to change your character, if it's okay with the rest of the players.
I don't really have a problem with it. I haven't had the chance to look it over, to be honest, but I hear it's not too shabby.
Ok crazy off the wall idea not expecting it to work but here goes nothing. After making Kyth I found the Vanguard base class from SGG it is a gish class that has Dx hit dice and medium bab same as bard only larger spell list picking from the wizard\sorcerer list still caps at lvl 6 spells if at all possible will email it to nightflier. Normally don't do this but as we haven't fought nor had me do any bardy things and I found this after finishing him, so its up to GM or the rest of the group if they are against it as well.
What is SGG? This was to be a core game!
Hm.. I don´t mind so much but I agree with Scranford that it was supposed to be core game. It is okey and really nice from nightflier to let us try stuff and listen what we would like to try. Heck, the Class Defense system seems to be okey and so far everyone agreed.
Class defense system is not in core... but well, we all agreed and though about it and thats okey. However from my side, it will be the first and last thing I will / I had asked, which can be changed. So I will be sticking to the core rules until otherwise told.
I don´t say no or yes to this until to see what others say. If possible, can you post the variant here so we could see it? If its not a game-breaking plus Nightflier give permission, go ahead but well... need to look at it
Yap, at least I am ready to receive. Galrian is just drooping next to fireplace inside inn and most likely sleeping there if not assumed someone comes, wakes him up and get to one of rooms with whomever he is sleeping with. Otherwise,
Ready to start - yes from me
Base Stats
Diminutive NE symbiont
Initiative -3
Speed 0ft
AC 11 (+4 size -3 Dex)
Base Attack/Grapple +1/-16
Attack: -
Full Attack: -
Damage: -
Face/Reach: 1ft/0ft
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: [b]
Alchemical Education
Darkvision 60ft
Enhance Alchemy
Outsider Traits
Symbiont Traits
Telepathy
[b] Saves:
Fort +2 Ref: -1 Will: +1
Abilities:
Str 3, Dex 4, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 6, Ego 8
Skills:
Concentration +4
Knowledge (planes, history, local) +5
Perception +5
Sense Motive +3
Spellcraft +5
Feats:
Alertness
Level Int Ego Special
1st–2nd 12 8 Alertness, share extracts, empathic link, personality
3rd–4th 13 9 —
5th–6th 14 10 —
7th–8th 15 11 —
9th–10th 16 12 —
11th–12th 17 13 —
13th–14th 18 14 —
15th–16th 19 15 —
17th–18th 20 16 —
19th–20th 21 17 —
Alchemical Education:
Each time the host gains a level the fiendish face teaches it one new extract in addition to the extracts gained normally.
Enhance Alchemy:
Treat the hosts intelligence as two higher when determining bonus extracts per day.
Personality:
Select a personality from the lists provided in the Expanded psionics handbook and apply it to the familiar.
I pretty much just removed the bits of a wizards familiar that didn't really make sense for a face and repurposed the special abilities provided by a fiendish familiar. I also ended up removing the improved evasion because of the way symbionts work according to the symbiont traits.
When joined with a host, a symbiont gains a number of benefits. It acts on its host's turn each round, regardless of its own initiative modifier. It is not flat footed unless its host is, and it is aware of any danger its host is aware of. If the symbiont is grafted onto a visible part of the host's body opponents can attack the symbiont itself instead of the host creature. This works the same way as attacking an object. The symbiont gains the benefit of the host's dexterity modifier to AC instead of its own and gains any deflection bonus to AC the host has as well. Its own size modifier and natural armour if any still apply. Attacking a symbiont instead of a host provokes an attack of opportunity from the host. A symbiont never takes damage from the attacks directed at the host. Like a worn magic item, a symbiont is usually unaffected by spells that damage the host, but if the host rolls a 1 on its save the symbiont is one of the 'items' that can be affected by the spell. A symbiont uses its host's base saving throw bonuses if they are better than its own.
Share spells: Any spell the host creature casts on itself automatically also affects the symbiont. Likewise the symbiont can choose to have any spell or spell like ability it uses on itself also affect the host. Symbionts and hosts can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of or symbiont's type. Spells targetted at the host by other spell casters do not affect the symbiont and vice versa.
Ok. Since I can't figure anyway to put this up differently here is everything but spells per day and spells known
____________________________
1st +0 +2 +0 +2
Arcane bond weapon, arcane strike, cantrips
2nd+1 +3 +0 +3
Combat casting, iron grip
3rd+2 +3 +1 +3
Weapon channel (touch spells)
4th+3 +4 +1 +4
Bonus feat
5th+3 +4 +1 +4
Vanguard's spell penetration
6th+4 +5 +2 +5
Swift spell 1/day
7th+5 +5 +2 +5
Spell block
8th+6/+1 +6 +2 +6
Arcane smite
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6
Enhance bond weapon, swift spell 2/day
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7
Bonus feat, weapon channel (save spell)
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7
Vanguard's spell penetration +2
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8
Swift spell 3/day
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8
Spell sunder
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9
Weapon channel (full atack)
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9
Swift spell 4/day
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10
Bonus feat
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Vanguard's spell penetration +4
18th +13/+8/+3 +11+6 +11
Swift spell 5/day
19th +14/+9/+4 +11+6 +11
Spell grapple
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12
Bond weapon mastery
The vanguard begins play with his bonded weapon at no cost. This weapon is of masterwork quality, although it is not made of any special material. The vanguard must wield his bonded weapon in order to make use of its abilities. If a vanguard ever atempts to cast a spell without having his bonded weapon in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell’s level.
When holding his bonded weapon, the vanguard is treated as having the Eschew Materials feat, allowing him to cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component (his bonded weapon efectively takes the place of the material component). He may also cast spells that normally require somatic components solely through arcane gestures made using his bonded weapon. This allows the vanguard to cast spells while wielding his bonded weapon and still leaves his other hand free to handle a shield or other item.
Beginning at 5th level a vanguard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded weapon as if he had the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. This takes half the time of normal magic item creation but still incurs the full cost. The magic properties of a bonded weapon, including any magic abilities added to it, only function for the vanguard who owns it. If a bonded weapon’s owner dies, or the vanguard is separated from his bonded weapon and forced to replace it, the weapon reverts to being an ordinary masterwork weapon.
If a bonded weapon is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the vanguard rests and regains his spell slots for the day. If the bonded weapon is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 100 gp per vanguard level plus the cost of the masterwork weapon. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. A weapon replaced in this way possesses all the additional enchantments of the previous bonded weapon. A vanguard can designate an existing magic weapon to be his bonded weapon. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic weapon retains its abilities while gaining the standard benefts and drawbacks of being a bonded weapon, however it does not gain any of the additional enhancements that had been placed on the old bonded weapon.
adds a bonus equal to half his vanguard level to his CMD when defending against opponents’ atempts to disarm or sunder his bonded weapon.
At 10th level, a vanguard may make a concentration check as if casting defensively (DC 15 + double the spell’s level) in order to avoid losing the spell if the atack misses. The vanguard can make other atacks (using other weapons) and take other actions without using the touch spell, but if he casts another spell or stops wielding his bonded weapon, the channeled spell is lost.
At 14th level, a vanguard can use his weapon channel ability as part of a full atack action. The spell afects every target the weapon hits during the round and then concludes at the end of that round. In addition, spells the vanguard channels are no longer lost if the atack misses.
per spell level expended (+1d6 for a frst level spell, +2d6 for a second level spell, etc.). If the vanguard’s atack misses, the spell energy is expended with no efect. At 10th level, a vanguard can use Arcane Smite as a move action instead of a standard action. At 12th level, a vanguard can use Arcane Smite as a swift action.
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** spoiler omitted **
I pretty much just removed the bits of a wizards familiar that didn't really make sense for a face and repurposed the special abilities provided by a fiendish familiar. I also ended up removing the improved evasion because of the way symbionts work according to the symbiont traits.
** spoiler omitted **...
Approved.
I see no problem with this class.
Fine with me
I don't have a problem with the class (Still wonder what the source of it is), I just hope this doesn't open the flood gates. We've went from core only to Class AC bonus, and now a non core class. I think we need to severely limit what is available. This glut of options is what drove me away from 3.5.
Options are exactly that, options. I have no problem with someone playig a class they think would be fun, especially if the DM doesn't mind.
Options are exactly that, options. I have no problem with someone playig a class they think would be fun, especially if the DM doesn't mind.
I agree with you in principle and and there are gaming systems designed with that in mind, but 3.5 ended up with so many...especially 3rd party options, that things taken by themselves seemed OK and balanced, but when added to options from other sources broke the game. In real life I've had more than one game broken by min-maxing players taking advantage of "Options". I'm not accusing anyone here of min-maxing, but by opening the window to allow this, we're opening the window of opportunity for that possibility. I don't understand why we can't find enough options in the core rules to make enjoyable characters.
I know options let you customize your character, and make him feel like your own, but there are tons of new options in the APG to allow you to do just that. And I know we haven't come close to exhausting that.
I've got to be honest the class seems a bit unbalanced to me. Stopping at 6th level spells is really not a back breaker when you've got access to the whole S/W spell list. Fighting nearly as good as the fighters at early levels, and casting 10-dice fireballs as he gets higher level seems a bit much. Being able to deliver touch spells, as well as do weapon damage at middle levels seems a bit much.
Nobody else has an issue with trying the class, and like the AC decision, I"m usually willing to go along with the majority, but I see warning signs, and if I didn't care about the game, I wouldn't point them out
I joined this game because I really like Nightflier's DMing style, and his stories, but also because it was a core game. Obviously I don't fit in with the multiple options group, and wouldn't have taken the time to make the character if I'd known what this was going to turn into. It was advertised as a core game, and that's what I expected. No hard feelings, and I'm not upset or anything...just not my style of game. So I'll just bow out before I cause more problems. Enjoy the game guys, and I'll keep reading, because like I said. I really like the story.
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Well, I would hope that you would continue with us. The character is really interesting and plus would be quite nice to play with alot of people.
I also admit that this is going to maybe open the "options" but as long as I play, no chance. I like the way for now plus I admit that AC class defense is okey so far. No harm so far but I will stand here.
Core & APG are enough for me and I will go that way. I will keep up with my character as this and I have interesting concept to go with my cleric (I don´t really feel any min-maxing here). Your healer with buffind & debuffing.
I will allow this change for Kythvanath but anymore than this... will be no. We can see how this will turn out but hopefully, will be okey.
We are just waiting now how this game will continue and see the characters then in real action
well, everyone is ready night. I think we can continue now
Sure I could live with that just want to keep a couple things utility spells mostly shield and ones like that. Also if possible channel weapon would be nice but isn't required or anything.
I for one see nothing wrong with having options. I know that in 3.5 there were alot of ways to "break" the game with all the options, combining them in different ways to min/max. That though is less a problem with having the options and more a problem of people wanting to play different style games.
Most broken aspects of 3.5 were easily fixed with a few simple reasonable house rules that often fell into RAI and even RAW if viewed using the right frame of mind. The other major problems in 3.5 came from multi-prestige-classing. If you only allowed a second prestige class after reaching the normal max level in your first prestige class it prevented nearly all abuse of this type. After that throw out a few poorly balanced items (thought bottle) and the game ran pretty well even in a mixed group of rpers and min/maxers.
This is of coarse my opinion, YMMV.
I also would like to keep Kristophe in the group, so I hope you will consider playing even if nightflier does let this class through.
I really would like to play in this game, so I'll try to keep my trap shut and see how things play out. If it doesn't work for me I can always accidently charge off a cliff or something ;-}. Just don't want to see the game degrade into something that's not really Pathfinder....Thanks for the opportunity.
(Careful with that Channel Weapon though...Chill touch and similar spells with weapon damage added as well, and possible criticals could prover very nasty)
Great that you're willing to stay in the game Scranford - wouldn't want to see anyone go.
I'd like to put the proposal foward that this should be the last non-core element that we should let in.
I literally just looked back at this thread.
I really am glad that you're willing to stay after all that, Kristophe. I enjoy the flavor that your character brings, the 'one that wasn't invited' and so forth.
I second Asasha's proposal - this is the last non-core element that should be introduced, lest nightflier has a better plan!
Ok just waiting for the changes so I can finish the work.
So trying to figure out what to take (assuming I still have s/w spells) would take burning hands for "crowd control" but since Kyth is scared of fire it will probably be shield since mage armor won't stack with the class bonus, and magic missile, shocking grasp, chill touch, or magic weapon any ideas on which. Also toying with gravity bow possibly probably not though.
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So trying to figure out what to take (assuming I still have s/w spells) would take burning hands for "crowd control" but since Kyth is scared of fire it will probably be shield since mage armor won't stack with the class bonus, and magic missile, shocking grasp, chill touch, or magic weapon any ideas on which. Also toying with gravity bow possibly probably not though.
Okay, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna limit your school access. You must choose four schools of magic to which you have access to. The rest of the class stays the same. Does this suit you?
Scranford?
I can live with that and my chosen schools will be evocation, transmutation, illusion, and enchantment.