As I live in the UK the cost of a book sent by Paizo including postage is high at $55.60 (which I outstand) compared to Amazon.co.uk $36.66 (on the 8th Aug), so I was hopping that a Subscription service could be set up for PDF’s just like the one for hard copys of the books.
Please any chance of a reply to this
From what i have heard Paizo doesn't do subscriptions for the .pdf files, and it doesn't plan to do so any time soon.
Although i would love to (i am in europe too) sadly this thing doesn't exist.
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You can just buy the PDF files.
You can also just buy the books. :p I'd also love to be able to subscribe to something.
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You can just buy the PDF files.
The purpose of the subscriptions is to make sure the initial print runs sell out, because books cost to produce and they take up space which also costs money. PDFs don't have that kind of prolem, and Paizo gives you a break by selling them at a major discount already.
Almost every other company that sells you PDFs of a book, does so at the full print price.
No please I am not after any discount just the option to set up a subscription account with Paizo and have the same perk of a early download as people how have a subscription to a hard copy, and this is just to the price of overseas postage and the wish to support paizo by buying direct (which with me buying the PDF still must be better for Paizo that me going to Amazon and buying the hard copy.
The plus side for me is not having to on the day of release having to place the PDF in a basket and then paying of it, I just want the whole thing automated
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You can just buy the PDF files.
The purpose of the subscriptions is to make sure the initial print runs sell out, because books cost to produce and they take up space which also costs money. PDFs don't have that kind of prolem, and Paizo gives you a break by selling them at a major discount already.
Almost every other company that sells you PDFs of a book, does so at the full print price.
No please I am not after any discount just the option to set up a subscription account with Paizo and have the same perk of a early download as people how have a subscription to a hard copy, and this is just to the price of overseas postage and the wish to support paizo by buying direct (which with me buying the PDF still must be better for Paizo that me going to Amazon and buying the hard copy.
The plus side for me is not having to on the day of release having to place the PDF in a basket and then paying of it, I just want the whole thing automated
+1
Also don't forget that by doing that (if it was an option) you show to Paizo that you want to (and will) buy every .pdf from a specific line. (so they can calculate money from that when making a budget for a new book).
+1
Also don't forget that by doing that (if it was an option) you show to Paizo that you want to (and will) buy every .pdf from a specific line. (so they can calculate money from that when making a budget for a new book).
And let's not forget the swank forum title ;)
And let's not forget the swank forum title ;)
+1
Also don't forget that by doing that (if it was an option) you show to Paizo that you want to (and will) buy every .pdf from a specific line. (so they can calculate money from that when making a budget for a new book).
Yes that too.
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Ok, even better plan. Just buy a bunch of subscriptions, put my address down and your email down. You'll get the pdfs, I'll get the books, and you'll only have to pay US shipping! My plan is foolproof! Foolproof I say!
What a good idea.....
No wait will save made, suggestion spell failed
I like this idea as well. There are several line where I'm not such a big fan of having a hard copy, but would still like to automatically recieve the pdfs.
Chief Technical Officer
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We have no plans to offer PDF-only subscriptions.
The main benefit to customers of a PDF subscription vs. individual PDF sales is that a subscription would be more convenient for them. But let's examine the reality of that:
- Without a PDF subscription, people who only buy PDFs come to our site once a month after they hear that the new volume is shipping (which we always mention in our weekly newsletter, so if they check that regularly, they won't miss it). They add the PDF to their cart and check out, and download the PDF.
- With a PDF subscription, the process would be very similar—we'd send you an email that it was released, but you'd still have to come to the site and download it. Ok, you'd be making a few less clicks because you can skip the checkout process, but realistically, we're talking about pretty much the same amount of time and effort invested on the customer end.
So let's be honest here: convenience is not drastically improved. The *real* difference is that, presumably, PDF-only subscribers would get their PDF without having to wait for the regular onsale date.
However, every time this topic comes up, we hear from people who say that if we offered a PDF-only subscription, they would drop their print subscription.
Now, print costs are tied strongly to volume—the more copies you print, the less each copy costs. So, the heart of the question for Paizo is this: Would offering a PDF-only subscription cause enough lost print sales that it would noticeably affect print run sizes, which in turn would increase costs (including, possibly, the cover price)?
There are only two potential answers to this question: yes, it would noticeably affect print run sizes; or no, it would not noticeably affect print run sizes.
If the answer is no, there's no problem here; in fact, we might even attract enough PDF subscribers to increase our revenues. (I doubt those increases would be significant, though, since people who are likely to subscribe are already probably buying most of the PDFs individually now.)
However, if the answer is yes, then offering PDF-only subscriptions could cause irreparable harm to our business.
So we have to look at risk vs. reward. The reward for our customers is the ability to get a copy of the PDF about a week earlier than they can right now, and the reward for us is probably not going to be dramatically high. The risk, however, is damaging, or even potentially *crippling* our main business. That's not a risk worth taking.
Would just yes to say thank you to Vic for an answer to my question about PDF’s
Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager
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To the poster of the removed comment, I will gladly address your concerns, questions or issues with your purchase when Customer Service is open. You can call 425-250-0800 Monday - Friday 10am - 5pm or email customer.service at customer.service@paizo.com.
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One possible experiment might be to offer subscriptions on PFS scenarios. No print run to affect, you could see if this has any positive effect on sales.
Possibly with a small discount or a subscriber only boon (received after being subscribed for 6 months or a year)
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No please I am not after any discount just the option to set up a subscription account with Paizo and have the same perk of a early download as people how have a subscription to a hard copy, and this is just to the price of overseas postage and the wish to support paizo by buying direct (which with me buying the PDF still must be better for Paizo that me going to Amazon and buying the hard copy.
The plus side for me is not having to on the day of release having to place the PDF in a basket and then paying of it, I just want the whole thing automated
I will counter this with the comment that it's not always and earlier download. The last couple times shipments, but packages has come late and so people could just buy the PDF before I had access.
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Just a thought, some people might use subscriptions just to get PDF early and don't care about the physical copies...
PDF are more ecology friendly, so maybe a PDF only subscription could help the environment.
Just a thought, some people might use subscriptions just to get PDF early and don't care about the physical copies...
PDF are more ecology friendly, so maybe a PDF only subscription could help the environment.
Yup, but refer to Vic's statement above about how this could end up crippling Paizo's core business. They rely on subscriptions to keep the print volume high, and the print run is essential in order to supply the retail chain, so it's not really something they can afford to lose.
It's one of those unfortunate situations where economic realities get in the way of doing the right thing.
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I'm hoping in the future it will be more economically viable and watching this space until that time.
Maybe if print on demand becomes more viable (as I understand it there were quality control and/or price issues making it unacceptable at the moment) there'll eventually be the facility for electronic only/print only/bundle subscriptions.
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I don't really get a discount. Here's why, I have to pay for shipping. When I do that, whatever amount you "give" me is eaten up by shipping. Heck I live in the States and shipping eats up any discount I have.
Second, when you give me a "discount" its not really a discount. You could say the PDFs are a billion dollars and when I buy with a physical product, I save billions! The amount is fake. It's a number you (Paizo) came up with that is basically there to make me feel better about buying from you since I get something "Free" when I buy a physical product.
Third, your "discount" isn't really a discount because of pricing. I know that ~2/5 of a product's cost is for the developers, 1/5 is for the shipping, and 2/5 is for the stores. That's a generally, smart pricing philosophy and I know you guys are smart cookies. Since you're the store AND the developers you're getting 4/5 of the price. If I buy from my local guys/gals, I'm supporting a local place AND most brick and mortar will give me a discount as a loyal customer without shipping.
I want a digital option. I support you guys because I want more Pathfinder product, but it would be much smarter for me to just buy through Amazon and steal the damn PDFS! I already have Amazon prime, so I get truly free shipping.
My point to this rant is I'm just not feeling the love here guys!
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Third, your "discount" isn't really a discount because of pricing. I know that ~2/5 of a product's cost is for the developers, 1/5 is for the shipping, and 2/5 is for the stores. That's a generally, smart pricing philosophy and I know you guys are smart cookies. Since you're the store AND the developers you're getting 4/5 of the price. If I buy from my local guys/gals, I'm supporting a local place AND most brick and mortar will give me a discount as a loyal customer without shipping.
First off, I agree with your general working here. Paizo get close to 80% of the cover price instead of the 10-20% or so they get selling via the distribution chain.
Secondly, I agree with how you feel about it.
Here's the issue though: If Paizo start offering enough of a discount as to be noticeably cheaper than retail stores, the retail stores get mad. They wonder why they're buying goods to sell when the manufacturer is selling them cheaper than they can, and decide to stop stocking those goods. The stores stop buying from the distributors, so the distributors stop selling from Paizo, and we're left with Paizo being the only source to buy from.
That's a great thing for me personally, I couldn't care less if retail stores stopped stocking Paizo product, it's too far a trip for me to go to any of them so I have to buy online. I'd much rather buy direct from the manufacturer to cut out the middleman and ensure they get as much money as possible. Not such a great thing for the game, however, as retail is one of the main ways new customers get introduced. Paizo would likely see great profits in the short term, just to die out once their current customer base stops playing and no new customers have taken their place.
The fact we get a subscriber discount at all is probably about as far as they can push things without upsetting the retail chain. Not saying I like the situation, as I don't, but I accept the realities of it. We (this planet) are still very much in a transition phase with traditional retail and online sales - on the one hand you have consumers now able to buy direct from manufacturers (or via amalgamated distributor/retailers such as Amazon), on the other you still have a dependency on retail stores.
Eventually something will have to give - and companies like Amazon will cause that to happen sooner rather than later, there's already numerous small bookstores out of business after trying to complete with them. Unless retail adapts to the electronic age (and schemes such as Bits and Mortar illustrate the type of thing I'm talking about here )the same is likely in more and more sectors.
Maybe we'll see game stores turn into game clubs, with membership fees to join and get the use of a table, and members placing a consolidated order to get a bulk discount, or maybe they'll survive by using their collective bargaining power as promotional outlets to prevent online retailers offering things at such a discount. I'm not going to publicly predict one or the other (or any of the other possibilities), only that I feel something is bound to happen over the next five to ten years.
(It's also worth mentioning that routes such as Kickstarter have opened up, allowing developers to go direct to their audience. I've spoken about retailers getting cut out of the chain, but publishers have to watch out too ;) )
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I want a digital option. I support you guys because I want more Pathfinder product, but it would be much smarter for me to just buy through Amazon and steal the damn PDFS!
Let's be blunt here. It's ALWAYS cheaper to steal stuff. It's also - legally and morally. Let's not try to use that as an excuse, okay? We're (mostly) all reasonable adults here who know the difference between right and wrong.
PDF are more ecology friendly, so maybe a PDF only subscription could help the environment.Good point. I'd love to see Paizo (not to mention the rest of the gaming industry) try to become more 'Green.' Anyone aware of anything environmental positive that they already do?
The statement that print products are inherently ecologically harmful is not really true. Both the Forest Stewardship Council and the Forest Leadership Coalition issue certificates for paper stocks which meet strict guidelines for sustainable harvesting, chlorine and acid free processing, and post-consumer content. Almost every reputable paper mill seeks out these certifications and offer reasonably priced paper product which meet the requirements.
I have no knowledge of the particular paper that Paizo specs in their contracts for printing so I can't say that their products are actually produced in an ecologically responsible fashion, but even if they were, the bigger problem with Paizo's print product is that they are produced in China and then shipped to the US for global distribution.
One good thing paizo does is using book rate (media mail) with domestic shipping which is a shared service (ie, ups, FedEx, dhl, and USPS) that's takes advantage of "available" space on cross country delivery and therefore limits additional carbon costs because the trucks carrying the products run regardless of capacity. Then the product is delivered in the "last mile" by the originating shipping partner (in this case USPS).
I too would be interested to know of ttg content producers who openly state they spec FSC and FLC certified papers from US mills and use a US print partner for both economic and ecological reasons. I would be happy to pay a premium for those products.
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I don't really get a discount. Here's why, I have to pay for shipping. When I do that, whatever amount you "give" me is eaten up by shipping. Heck I live in the States and shipping eats up any discount I have.
It's funny you say that because, originally, the sole purpose of the discout on thevAP subscription was to help offset the shipping costs for domestic subscribers. This was back before the first AP went out the door, so it was well before the RPG, setting books, and companions.
-Skeld
Edit: Adding my opinion to the ecological comments. I have zero, and I mean zero, interest in paying more "for the environment."
Adding my opinion to the ecological comments. I have zero, and I mean zero, interest in paying more "for the environment."
We are fast approaching the point where we won't need to pay more for ecologically sustainable print. Within 10 years producing virgin, acid-washed paper will be as or more expensive as producing acid-free with high post-consumer content. There will be no reason other than "I hate old-growth trees and like acid run-off" to not use better paper. Even today the cost difference is very small, but existent.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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We are fast approaching the point where we won't need to pay more for ecologically sustainable print. Within 10 years producing virgin, acid-washed paper will be as or more expensive as producing acid-free with high post-consumer content. There will be no reason other than "I hate old-growth trees and like acid run-off" to not use better paper. Even today the cost difference is very small, but existent.
You are, of course, aware that most of paper production has long since moved from old-growth forests to more controlled plantation wood? Better control on pretty much all the variables.
We are fast approaching the point where we won't need to pay more for ecologically sustainable print. Within 10 years producing virgin, acid-washed paper will be as or more expensive as producing acid-free with high post-consumer content. There will be no reason other than "I hate old-growth trees and like acid run-off" to not use better paper. Even today the cost difference is very small, but existent.You are, of course, aware that most of paper production has long since moved from old-growth forests to more controlled plantation wood? Better control on pretty much all the variables.
Correct, but without a high (40%+) post-consumer content as an average across all consumable papers then old-growth is still in jeopardy. Even if it is a spill off from timber not having enough access to tree farms because of paper production.
If book/game stores could have "gift" cards they sell to their customers.
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Adding my opinion to the ecological comments. I have zero, and I mean zero, interest in paying more "for the environment."We are fast approaching the point where we won't need to pay more for ecologically sustainable print. Within 10 years producing virgin, acid-washed paper will be as or more expensive as producing acid-free with high post-consumer content. There will be no reason other than "I hate old-growth trees and like acid run-off" to not use better paper. Even today the cost difference is very small, but existent.
Great! When we reach the point where printing Pathfinder on whatever paper is the most environmentally friendly adds nothing to the price I'm currently paying, I'll be all for it. Until then, I'm still unwilling to pay extra just so I can feel like a more gooder about my environmental citizenship.
-Skeld
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.One good thing paizo does is using book rate (media mail) with domestic shipping which is a shared service (ie, ups, FedEx, dhl, and USPS) that's takes advantage of "available" space on cross country delivery and therefore limits additional carbon costs because the trucks carrying the products run regardless of capacity. Then the product is delivered in the "last mile" by the originating shipping partner (in this case USPS).
Unless we are talking about something else I want to respond to this.
Paizo does not use media mail for shipping their books due to the restrictions on what can be sent through media mail. The particular restriction is it can't contain any advertisements which all their books do.
I asked awhile ago why they don't use the cheape shipping method of media mail for their products when other online stores I order from do. I was told they don't because of the reason above and that those online companies are technically breaking that rule and are shipping in the hopes they USPS does not open the box.
Unless we are talking about something else I want to respond to this.Paizo does not use media mail for shipping their books due to the restrictions on what can be sent through media mail. The particular restriction is it can't contain any advertisements which all their books do.
I wonder if they're aware they're okay as long as those advertisements are "incidental announcements of books"?
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Unless we are talking about something else I want to respond to this.Paizo does not use media mail for shipping their books due to the restrictions on what can be sent through media mail. The particular restriction is it can't contain any advertisements which all their books do.
I wonder if they're aware they're okay as long as those advertisements are "incidental announcements of books"?
Yes, but things like the pawn sets, pathfinder battles minis, beginner box, item cards, yetisberg, the harrow deck, and map packs are not considered books, and all (possibly not the minis but everything else) have advertizements in the books See this post from March 2009:
Why cant they be shipped media mail?Media Mail™
...Contents are limited to books, manuscripts, sound recordings, recorded videotapes, and computer-readable media (not blank). Informally called "Book Rate," Media Mail cannot contain advertising, except eligible books may contain incidental announcements of books...Nearly every book we sell contains some advertisement beyond "incidental announcements of books" that disqualifies it for Media Mail.
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You just qualified for the Ayn Rand Award of the Week. Congratulations!Adding my opinion to the ecological comments. I have zero, and I mean zero, interest in paying more "for the environment."We are fast approaching the point where we won't need to pay more for ecologically sustainable print. Within 10 years producing virgin, acid-washed paper will be as or more expensive as producing acid-free with high post-consumer content. There will be no reason other than "I hate old-growth trees and like acid run-off" to not use better paper. Even today the cost difference is very small, but existent.Great! When we reach the point where printing Pathfinder on whatever paper is the most environmentally friendly adds nothing to the price I'm currently paying, I'll be all for it. Until then, I'm still unwilling to pay extra just so I can feel like a more gooder about my environmental citizenship.
-Skeld
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I was operating under the silly notion that all opinions were valid, especially opinions about product costing. That's ok though, I said that knowing full well I'd take some lumps for it.
Thanks for the award. I'll toss it out back in the burn barrel with the ones I got for clubbing baby seals and deforesting the Amazon River Basin. :D
-Skeld
.One good thing paizo does is using book rate (media mail) with domestic shipping which is a shared service (ie, ups, FedEx, dhl, and USPS) that's takes advantage of "available" space on cross country delivery and therefore limits additional carbon costs because the trucks carrying the products run regardless of capacity. Then the product is delivered in the "last mile" by the originating shipping partner (in this case USPS).Unless we are talking about something else I want to respond to this.
Paizo does not use media mail for shipping their books due to the restrictions on what can be sent through media mail. The particular restriction is it can't contain any advertisements which all their books do.
I asked awhile ago why they don't use the cheape shipping method of media mail for their products when other online stores I order from do. I was told they don't because of the reason above and that those online companies are technically breaking that rule and are shipping in the hopes they USPS does not open the box.
Well, goes to show you what kind of attention I'm paying... I would have sworn I remembered then using media mail. Much of their product qualifies.
Much of their product qualifies.
As Cpt_Kirstov quoted above, not really. A very large number of Paizo products have ads for products that are not books, and it would be easy to ague that multiple full-page illustrated color advertisements go beyond 'incidental announcement'. Yes, the odds of getting caught are low, but I believe generally Paizo prefers to play by the rules.
Paizo absolutely ships things that could go media mail, but keeping track of which things those are isn't worth the effort to use a slower, untrackable shipping method.
Especially when you factor in the customer service issues of explaining why two largely identical books have vastly different shipping rates and why they can't go in the same package. It's odd enough to explain how having 'bound printed matter' based shipping rates mean it is cheaper to add a $1 novel you will throw away to a package with a Flip-Mat or Map Pack is cheaper than shipping the map alone.
Media mail would be even slower than how they ship now? Even if it is an option for them, I suspect it would cost them customers - or they'd have to increase the lead time of buying directly from Paizo instead of Amazon.
I gave up on my subscriptions a long time ago because even with the delayed release for retail (or early release if you buy direct, whichever way you want to look at it), I can still get the books at about the same time by buying them from Amazon.ca for a lot less money (enough less that if I wanted the pdfs, I could buy them separately and still come out ahead)
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Media mail would be even slower than how they ship now?
Domestically, yes. Internationally, media mail isn't an option at all, so it can't affect shipping to Canada either way.