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Came up in another thread, but was not really on topic and I think its important enough to have its own thread to clarify.
however there were some very polarized views each way on the subject.
My Opinion right or wrong is that a trait should never be powerful enough to be able to modify a class ability that reduces it from a standard action to a move action.
moreover this trait when applied to expendable resources i.e. resources like potion that cost gold to use is reasonable. However it is not reasonable when applied to an infinite free resource
Traits are half feats, there power should never exceed this logic
Rules in Question:
Accelerated Drinker
Benefit: You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard action as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.
Alchemy (Su)
Extracts are the most varied of the three. In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form , and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using the alchemist’s level as the caster level. Unlike potions, though, extracts can have powerful effects and duplicate spells that a potion normally could not.
Although alchemists don’t actually cast spells, they do have a formulae list that determines what extracts they can create. An alchemist can utilize spelltrigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so). An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion
discuss.
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Too tired right now to rehash these into new thoughts, Ill do so tomorrow, so for now ill copy/paste my argument as to why from the other thread.
can anyone seriously say that a trait should be powerful enough to turn spellcasting any level 1-3 spell from a standard action into a move action ?extracts are effectively as much spells as they are potions
Um, thats EXACTLY what the trait lets you do. Potions are SPELLS in liquid form. Just because they cost money to make its ok that they work, but not extracts? That makes zero sense to me.
equivalent example would be allowing a trait to let you cast fireball as a move action which is quite simply broken
No, thats not an equivalent example at all. And there is a way to do that, make a potion of fireball and drink it using the trait. Sure it effects only you, but so do extracts and potions. And yeah it might not be the most effective thing, but its casting fireball as a move action never the less.
the trait used on normal potion is balanced becuase it costs you money to drink potions, daily spells/extracts are effectively free, If you want extract to utilize this trait then I'd say it'll costs you gold to prepare those extracts, otherwise its just not balanced.
This... makes no sense. As I said before, potions are SPELLS in liquid form. Why is it ok to use those with the trait just because they cost money? How is money the only difference in it being ok and overpowered?
One thing you are over looking is the fact that the trait says "you must have the potion in your hand at the start of your turn." That means you used a move action to pull it out on the PREVIOUS turn. So your taking 2 turns: one to pull it out, and the next turn to actually consume the potion/extract. How is that broken?
edit to put in the actually wording of the feat.
You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard action as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.
I'd also mention that I think this particular trait is not official Paizo material so a GM is well within their rights to not allow it, and based on its suggested use on extracts I wouldn't allow it
I'd also jsut mention that a swift spell costs a feat and a spell slot 4 level higher to turn a standard action into a swift action.
so you want a trait to do half a much for less at no cost ?
i don't see why it would be different.
its drinking coke vs drinking pepsi. different flavor, same (basic) stuff.
i'd also let it work for other things, like regular liquids and booze, even tho it doesnt say it works.
I can see it now...a drinking contest with Accelerated Drinker...
the question is not whether or not it makes sense logically, because it dose make sense. If drinking a potions take a move action then drinking anything (liquor, which will be cool for Drunken Masters, I think I don't have the book yet) is a move action. However the trait might be a little to powerful. I know that being able to buff yourself with two spells in a single round is pretty powerful. but at the same time anyone can take the trait and do the same thing just not for free like an alchy can. SO my point is it might be more of a feat then a trait but as a feat it will only be useful for one class.
ultimately extracs are not potions, their spells which have potion traits. Theres no reason a /trait/ should allow a class feature which is supposed to be a standard action suddenly become all move actions.
its stupidly powerful. it is also according to the SRD fan created. which should give it a big giant /no/ stamp as far as preventing it from affecting extracts.
the question is not whether or not it makes sense logically, because it dose make sense. If drinking a potions take a move action then drinking anything (liquor, which will be cool for Drunken Masters, I think I don't have the book yet) is a move action. However the trait might be a little to powerful. I know that being able to buff yourself with two spells in a single round is pretty powerful. but at the same time anyone can take the trait and do the same thing just not for free like an alchy can. SO my point is it might be more of a feat then a trait but as a feat it will only be useful for one class.
they alchy doesn't get to do that for free it costs him an extract slot 2 levels higher than the higher spell so drinking 'shield' and 'enlarge person' together costs a 3rd level slot.
Combine extracts: When the alchemist creates an extract,
he can place two formulae into one extract. When the
extract is consumed, both formulae take effect.This
extract has a level two levels higher than the highest-level
formulae placed in the extract. An alchemist must be at
least 8th level before selecting this discovery.
Since it hinges on the character already having the potion (or extract) in hand, I wouldn't have a problem with it. This means that two move actions were used to retrieve and drink the potion instead of a move and standard.
if your using 3rd party products like this trait then a 3rd party product like the potions belt that lets you draw potions as a free action is probably going to raise its head soon after
I know that I was talking about drink to extract in one round but you bring up a good point an alchy can get 4 buffing spells in one round provide that he has them in his hands to start which is not all that hard.
I like this as a trait, but it might be a little more fair as a feat.
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if your using 3rd party products like this trait then a 3rd party product like the potions belt that lets you draw potions as a free action is probably going to raise its head soon after
Yeah, I've heard of that.
If I was running the game and someone was carrying around potions in a belt or bandoleer, they better be in iron vials, because they are going to get hit in combat. And every other bad guy with a free hand is going to try to snatch them as well.
It makes sense that if you are going to wear your potions, you can get to them a lot easier. But you should also bear the attendant risks.
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I am interested in the more general case. Are extracts handled as potions or as spells you cast?
Potions take a move action to remove from a pack, if extracts are treated as potions then it takes a move to retreive plus a standard to drink them or 2 move actions with accelerated drinker.
Ultimately it's better for alchemists if they are assumed to work like spells and are not treated as a potion because you will get killed with action inefficiency.
I've been treating them like potions and allowing accelerated drinker but either way works for me.
drinking an alchys extracts is a bad idea however. and the Iron Vials is a great idea. I think that they are in the Adventurers Armory.
I am interested in the more general case. Are extracts handled as potions or as spells you cast?
Potions take a move action to remove from a pack, if extracts are treated as potions then it takes a move to retreive plus a standard to drink them or 2 move actions with accelerated drinker.
Ultimately it's better for alchemists if they are assumed to work like spells and are not treated as a potion because you will get killed with action inefficiency.
I've been treating them like potions and allowing accelerated drinker but either way works for me.
ya if they are treated like a spell then it should be a standard action, but as a potion the accelerated drinker should work as a trait. I think I like them as potions better, just because it make more sense. and with items and accelerated drinker alchemists are a lot more effective as a class. but i don't think overly,
however as far as accelerated drinker I still think that it should be feat.
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Ultimately it's better for alchemists if they are assumed to work like spells and are not treated as a potion because you will get killed with action inefficiency.
I see it as a trade off. They get to use light armor with no chance of spell failure, have a larger selection of weapons, and can buff their physical stats starting at first level. Oh, and bombs.
If you infuse an extract does the non-alchemist also treat it as something other than a potion also?
good question, think it may be a lot easier to just to say the extracts are just like potions, it would be a standard either way.
I am interested in the more general case. Are extracts handled as potions or as spells you cast?
Potions take a move action to remove from a pack, if extracts are treated as potions then it takes a move to retreive plus a standard to drink them or 2 move actions with accelerated drinker.
Ultimately it's better for alchemists if they are assumed to work like spells and are not treated as a potion because you will get killed with action inefficiency.
I've been treating them like potions and allowing accelerated drinker but either way works for me.
I guess I keep coming back to the fact that Accelerated Drinker is not in the Advanced Players Guide. If it effects the core of how alchemist "casting" works surely paizo would have put it in the same book.
If you infuse an extract does the non-alchemist also treat it as something other than a potion also?
think I'd classify it as a single use wondrous item.
otherwise they would have simply stated that it becomes a normal potion that takes up an extract slot.
As it is they call it an infused extract, I see that as an intend difference
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I guess I keep coming back to the fact that Accelerated Drinker is not in the Advanced Players Guide. If it effects the core of how alchemist "casting" works surely paizo would have put it in the same book.
like how monks and brass knuckles are in the same book, and fighters and over-hand chop... oh wait.... they're not.
I guess I keep coming back to the fact that Accelerated Drinker is not in the Advanced Players Guide. If it effects the core of how alchemist "casting" works surely paizo would have put it in the same book.like how monks and brass knuckles are in the same book, and fighters and over-hand chop... oh wait.... they're not.
true but brass knuckles and overhand chop didn't get released before the monk and the fighter ;)
making a new class to rely on an old fan based trait just seem a little unlikely to me ;)
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true but brass knuckles and overhand chop didn't get released before the monk and the fighter ;)
brass knuckles were in pf's 3.5 stuff, and overhand chop was in the beta test of the core book...
so they did predate the pf versions of the classes, or were thought up at the same time
and like it was said above, its not really a fan trait, The trait is actually from the Cheliax Player Companion, page 18. thats not exactly fan made IMHO
true but brass knuckles and overhand chop didn't get released before the monk and the fighter ;)brass knuckles were in pf's 3.5 stuff, and overhand chop was in the beta test of the core book...
so they did predate the pf versions of the classes, or were thought up at the same time
and like it was said above, its not really a fan trait, The trait is actually from the Cheliax Player Companion, page 18. thats not exactly fan made IMHO
then let me take a different track, neither of these are "Essential" to make either class work significantly better.
neither is exactly making it possible to make a standard attack with a move action ;)
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true but brass knuckles and overhand chop didn't get released before the monk and the fighter ;)brass knuckles were in pf's 3.5 stuff, and overhand chop was in the beta test of the core book...
so they did predate the pf versions of the classes, or were thought up at the same time
and like it was said above, its not really a fan trait, The trait is actually from the Cheliax Player Companion, page 18. thats not exactly fan made IMHO
then let me take a different track, neither of these are "Essential" to make either class work significantly better.
neither is exactly making it possible to make a standard attack with a move action ;)
you're right, a monk should totally have to pay twive as much for a +1 amulet of mighty fists rather than +1 brass knuckles.... because they work sooo well without enchantments
Piazo obviously knows the trait exists, and i'd bet they just dont find it game breaking to toss a class a bone every now and then.
fighters can take a feat to draw a weapon as a free action(move->standard), drinking a potion as a move (standard->move) is about half that.
also its not something that can get too abused imho.they have to have the potion in hand already any way, and if you draw it the same round its a full round either way. it lets them occasionally get a standard attack.
round 1: drink and toss a bomb
round 2: pull out potion, toss a bomb
round 3: drink and toss a bomb
round 4: pull out potion, toss a bomb
vs
round 1: drink or toss a bomb
round 2: pull out potion, toss a bomb
round 3: drink or toss a bomb
round 4: pull out potion, toss a bomb
so 2 more bombs (or other attack). heaven forbid they can be semi-effective and get a few buffs out.
at lower levels it looks more impressive, once casters can quicken spells and stuff the alchemist cant really keep up. also their infusion list isnt full of world altering spells
but now i think i'm ranting
true but brass knuckles and overhand chop didn't get released before the monk and the fighter ;)brass knuckles were in pf's 3.5 stuff, and overhand chop was in the beta test of the core book...
so they did predate the pf versions of the classes, or were thought up at the same time
and like it was said above, its not really a fan trait, The trait is actually from the Cheliax Player Companion, page 18. thats not exactly fan made IMHO
then let me take a different track, neither of these are "Essential" to make either class work significantly better.
neither is exactly making it possible to make a standard attack with a move action ;)
you're right, a monk should totally have to pay twive as much for a +1 amulet of mighty fists rather than +1 brass knuckles.... because they work sooo well without enchantments
Piazo obviously knows the trait exists, and i'd bet they just dont find it game breaking to toss a class a bone every now and then.
fighters can take a feat to draw a weapon as a free action(move->standard), drinking a potion as a move (standard->move) is about half that.
also its not something that can get too abused imho.they have to have the potion in hand already any way, and if you draw it the same round its a full round either way. it lets them occasionally get a standard attack.
round 1: drink and toss a bomb
round 2: pull out potion, toss a bomb
round 3: drink and toss a bomb
round 4: pull out potion, toss a bombvs
round 1: drink or toss a bomb
round 2: pull out potion, toss a bomb
round 3: drink or toss a bomb
round 4: pull out potion, toss a bombso 2 more bombs (or other attack). heaven forbid they can be semi-effective and get a few buffs out.
at lower levels it looks more impressive, once casters can quicken spells and stuff the alchemist cant really keep up. also their infusion list isnt full of world altering spells
but now i think i'm...
pull out potion or extract ?
pulling out potions I aint got no problem with you can use accelerated drinking on them till the cows come home.
Fortunately for me just had a chance to have a chat to my GM about it and he's made it nice n simple for our future game.
Extracts are treated like memorized spells for use consider it standard action to grab and drink(cast) it.
Infused Extracts are the same standard to grab + drink(cast)
Accelerated Drinker and extracts
I'll quote his response "Alchemist with that trait is definitely abuse. :P"
I may still take accelerated drinker and walk around with some crafted potions in hand that I can down when I fight starts as a move for a little gold cost and then use my standard for mutagen.
actually that brings up a good point if your allowing extracts to be drunk as a move what about the mutagen ? move also ?
One Final point I'll make
Bomb (Su)
Creating and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.
so in this case the action of grabing the bomb flask and the cataylst mixing them and then throwing it is all in a standard action
how is grabbing an extract flask and drinking it as a standard instead of throwing it any different ?
Otherwise your extract/potion draw logic would suggest bombs require a move action to grab first before you can combine and throw as a standard
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One Final point I'll make
Bomb (Su)
Creating and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.so in this case the action of grabing the bomb flask and the cataylst mixing them and then throwing it is all in a standard action
how is grabbing an extract flask and drinking it as a standard instead of throwing it any different ?
In the case of the bomb you are taking two inert substances, combining them, and throwing -- not much different than spell components.
Extracts are potions that must be retrieved, uncorked, and ingested; and a physiological change in the Alchemist then follows.
Treating the Alchemist as a pure spell-caster is cheating, imo.
But some kind of official word on the subject would be nice.
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One Final point I'll make
Bomb (Su)
Creating and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.so in this case the action of grabing the bomb flask and the cataylst mixing them and then throwing it is all in a standard action
how is grabbing an extract flask and drinking it as a standard instead of throwing it any different ?
In the case of the bomb you are taking two inert substances, combining them, and throwing -- not much different than spell components.
Extracts are potions that must be retrieved, uncorked, and ingested; and a physiological change in the Alchemist then follows.
Treating the Alchemist as a pure spell-caster is cheating, imo.
But some kind of official word on the subject would be nice.
yeah, thats how i see it too. pulling an extract is a move, drinking it is a standard. bombs say standard action for the whole thing, thats why i dont think its broke. its not just a standard to whip it out and slurp it
Just my opinion:
Accelerated Drinker
Benefit: You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard action as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.
If we are reading strictly the rules in order to apply it to Alchemist extracts, at least we should read the limitations strictly.
Someone in another thread said that you could use this trait to drink two extracts/potions per round if you carry them with your hands. I disagree, and that would be the actual game-breaker imo.
Other uses seem ok. Btw, is that a trait from the APG?
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Otherwise your extract/potion draw logic would suggest bombs require a move action to grab first before you can combine and throw as a standard
Well bombs aren't described as potion like things you drink. Also, SKR specifically said bombs were standard action to launch but didn't say anything about extracts.
It seems obvious to me that extracts are treated like potions all around but obviously it's not as clear as I'd figured since a lot of people disagree.
Looking at the spell list I see a lot of things designed to be used before combat and lots of ways the change action efficiency. For example: combine extracts is discount-quicken if you assume they are treated like spells.
Casting times for extract only spells is another weird thing. *shrug* This is going to come up a lot.
Casting times for extract only spells is another weird thing. *shrug* This is going to come up a lot.
indeed perhaps someone who worked on the alchemist might give us an idea of what they intended ;)
Btw, is that a trait from the APG?
no its not
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To posit my opinion (since I'm the one that started the argument in the first place), it calls out that you drink an extract "as if imbibing a potion", giving no other rules in that section as to how you would drink it (not calling out any exceptions, ect.). So, we are left to believe that they work exactly like potions when it comes to using them, ie. move action draw, standard action drink. This effectively makes all of their "spells" full-round actions. Accelerated drinker makes drinking one a move action, so long as you've been holding it for one turn. Now, it's still effectively a full-round action, you've just broken it up so that you can contribute while you're wasting you life away drinking extracts.
Also, like others have said, it's not fan-made content, it's from Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils.
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The trait specifically states "drinking a potion". An extract, by RAW, is very much not a potion (the "unlike potions" part).
By RAW, it does not apply.
If you want to "logically" explain this, just remember that an extract is more powerful than a potion. While the accelerated drinker might be able to stomach the lesser degree of magical concentration in a potion, the higher concentration of the extract is just too much for an accelerated drink.
Imagine drinking a glass of low-alcohol beverage (say wine) in a gulp. The accelerated drinker trait lets you do this without choking. Now imagine drinking the same quantity of highly alcoholized drink (say whisky) also in a gulp. The end result will definitely not be the same.
It is not a matter of how fast you get the liquid in your stomach, but a matter of how fast your body processes it.
IF the extract was a spell then the alchemist would be a caster -- which he is not.
The extract write up says it's used just like a potion. The trait in question gives you the ability to drink a potion more quickly.
Drink potion = move action
Drink Extract = Drink potion
Drink Extract = move action
Stupidly powerful? Please, not even. YaY I can now get my potion/extract out and drink it in the same round with my standard and move action at level 1 and only provoke for how many times? -- too bad I can't just cast the spell as a standard action and save my move action like an actual caster.
To posit my opinion (since I'm the one that started the argument in the first place), it calls out that you drink an extract "as if imbibing a potion", giving no other rules in that section as to how you would drink it (not calling out any exceptions, ect.). So, we are left to believe that they work exactly like potions when it comes to using them, ie. move action draw, standard action drink. This effectively makes all of their "spells" full-round actions. Accelerated drinker makes drinking one a move action, so long as you've been holding it for one turn. Now, it's still effectively a full-round action, you've just broken it up so that you can contribute while you're wasting you life away drinking extracts.
Also, like others have said, it's not fan-made content, it's from Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils.
That looks open and shut to me, then. Nice work, Hunter. Ironically, I think most people see that extracts are supposed to be alchemist's "spells" and treat them standard actions to pull and drink, just out of habit. Iron vials and potion bandoleer, here I come.
Also, like others have said, it's not fan-made content, it's from Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils.
For me, it is enough, enough to ignore the trait, a trait that comes from a magazine isn't going to be part of my campaign, and will never work together with the Advanced Player's Guide content, I don't want to start a discussion about the quality of that kind of publications but I just can't trust them, no matter how big the Paizo logo appears in the cover of the publication (Unless someone from Paizo comes here and tell me that they had the APG upcoming classes in mind when doing that trait).
So what the potion half are basically saying results in this.
My character is always playing with 2 of his extracts one in each hand, if he needs his hands for somthing the extracts are tucked away and come stright back out afterwards
combat starts
with 2 potions drawn I use my move and standard action to drink both potions.
I'm now a better self buffer than a caster who can only get 1 buff out per round
and before you jump in an say, oh but you need a move to draw another, who uses more than 2 self buffs in an average fight ? hell you really only need 1 most of the time.
want to get creative ? I glue two extract flasks together which can now be held in one hand i.e. drawn and each side drunk as a move.
(And if you really want to get crazy Hell why not Potions Helmet, think Beer-Hat. insert potions in the top and suck though a tube made of cat gut during combat , would that even require an action ? ;) )
having used my first round to double buff I'm full into combat next round and ahead of any other buffer.
with combine extract thats 4x 4th level buffs maximum (no one can match that in a round)
or
2 6th level buffs without. (which a wizard only matches with a quicken metamgic rod which aint cheap)
and all this for the bargain price of 1 trait.
and your all fine with this ?
Side question is mutagen a potion to be drunk as well ?
@Ogre: you make an intersting point with the casting time , having the extract e.g. enlarge person already drawn and then drunk as a move with the trait has taken a full round spell and reduced it to a move action.
and only provoke for how many times?
handy haversack perhaps ? stops draw AoO's dead ;)
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For me, it is enough, enough to ignore the trait, a trait that comes from a magazine isn't going to be part of my campaign, and will never work together with the Advanced Player's Guide content, I don't want to start a discussion about the quality of that kind of publications but I just can't trust them, no matter how big the Paizo logo appears in the cover of the publication (Unless someone from Paizo comes here and tell me that they had the APG upcoming classes in mind when doing that trait).
Also, like others have said, it's not fan-made content, it's from Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils.
For the love of... ITS AN OFFICIAL PAIZO PRODUCT. Its not a 3rd party book, its not "a magazine". The quality of the publication is the same as any other Paizo product.
and your all fine with this ?
Yes. I really think you are over complicating things. The alchemist who always walks around with two extracts in his hand cant do things like: climb, open doors, scratch an itch, shake the hand of the people he meets, and any other thing that happens in the course of the day that requires a free hand to do. You are lessening the options of what you can do in order to use it, and really any GM who is bothered by this alchemist will put non-combat situations that say "Hey alchy, put down your potions or your stuck". Again, what you arent realizing here is that casting an extract is a FULL ROUND action. Move to pull, standard to drink. This just allows the alchemist to split this up over 2 rounds and still be able to contribute something. There is NOTHING over powered about this. At ALL. Yes, ive seen your worst case scenario, easliy foiled by making the alchemist do something that REQUIRES THE USE OF HIS HANDS.
want to get creative ? I glue two extract flasks together which can now be held in one hand i.e. drawn and each side drunk as a move.
Wont work, now you're just trying to look for ways to abuse this. Its a move action to drink A potion. Doing this you just pour your other one out when you drink the first one, wasting it.
Also want to add, the value of this trait depends on how you interpret extracts working. As has been said, some treat them like spells, in which case they are a standard action to both remove AND drink. In this case, I DO NOT THINK THIS TRAIT APPLIES. I am only talking about if you take a LITERAL look at how the rules say they apply, in which case "like potions" and as such require a move to draw and standard to drink. In this case EVERY extract is a full round action, and the trait applies.
So what the potion half are basically saying results in this.
My character is always playing with 2 of his extracts one in each hand, if he needs his hands for somthing the extracts are tucked away and come stright back out afterwards
combat starts
with 2 potions drawn I use my move and standard action to drink both potions.I'm now a better self buffer than a caster who can only get 1 buff out per round
and before you jump in an say, oh but you need a move to draw another, who uses more than 2 self buffs in an average fight ? hell you really only need 1 most of the time.
want to get creative ? I glue two extract flasks together which can now be held in one hand i.e. drawn and each side drunk as a move.
(And if you really want to get crazy Hell why not Potions Helmet, think Beer-Hat. insert potions in the top and suck though a tube made of cat gut during combat , would that even require an action ? ;) )
having used my first round to double buff I'm full into combat next round and ahead of any other buffer.
with combine extract thats 4x 4th level buffs maximum (no one can match that in a round)
or
2 6th level buffs without. (which a wizard only matches with a quicken metamgic rod which aint cheap)and all this for the bargain price of 1 trait.
and your all fine with this ?
Side question is mutagen a potion to be drunk as well ?
@Ogre: you make an intersting point with the casting time , having the extract e.g. enlarge person already drawn and then drunk as a move with the trait has taken a full round spell and reduced it to a move action.
So to summarize, allowing this feat lets you house-rule more stuff that ridiculous? No, I don't think that is what they are saying.
I believe the salient point is that drawing an extract takes an extra move action, so this feat alleviates that a little. No cause for alarm, or slippery-slope arguments.
...stuff
first
PFSRD disagrees with youhttp://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/accelerated-drinker
Fan content
In any event, it is important to note that this material is not from Paizo and has not been endorsed by Paizo in any way.
second your Gm trump dossen't apply
like i said I have to climb the flasks get tucked away, once I'm up the ladder out they come again
meet somone new one goes away to shake hands my other hand is still holding one.
unless the GM plans on starting every single combat while we need to be doing somthing with our hands, I have 2 drawn and can drink both as a move
and third flasks have stoppers do they not ? 2 flasks glued together the one not being drunk still has a stopper and won't pour out when your drinking the other.
My Alchemist has the trait Accelerated Drinker. I have used it twice from levels 1 to 4, both times completely for style points (I drank two potions in one round that I had drawn the previous round, but we were prebuffing outside of combat anyway, and it still took two rounds to draw them both and then drink them both).
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I think I was the first person who explicitly objected to applying the trait to extracts.
The Pathfinder game has had magic items that act like potions well before the Cheliax book appeared. The people who wrote and developed Accelerated Drinker could well have included elixirs and other non-potion drinkable items into the trait's description, but they chose not to.
(If it weren't for elixirs already being in the game, I think the "Acclerated Extracts" argument would be stronger; in that situation, it would have been unreasonable to expect the Cheliax team to forsee potion-like magic items, and I'd have argued that Accelerated Drinker was essentially silent on the matter. As it is, however, the trait text implicitly excludes elixirs.)
My general inclination when reading Pathfinder rules is to err on the side of strict interpretation. Pathfinder rules rely far more heavily on precise text readings. (I was initially pretty sloppy when it came to, say, attack actions that took a standard action, versus standard actions that involved attacking someone.) (If you read other threads currently active, you can see the developers make an important distinction between spells that generate effects that affect an area, like web, versus area-effect spells.)
Given the level of precision necessary to read the rules correctly, I think I'll keep Accelerated Drinker limited to potions at my table.
So to summarize, allowing this feat lets you house-rule more stuff that ridiculous? No, I don't think that is what they are saying.
I believe the salient point is that drawing an extract takes an extra move action, so this feat alleviates that a little. No cause for alarm, or slippery-slope arguments.
its not a house to say your holding one flask in each hand all the time, dropped into a handy haversack in 3 seconds and both picked back out in 6 seconds when your hands are free again.
nor is it house ruling to use the AD trait to use 2 move actions in 1 round to drink them both which is what people are aruging is the correct interpretation.
if you missed the potion helemt akin to a beer hat as not being serious , well...
...stufffirst
PFSRD disagrees with you
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/accelerated-drinker
Fan content
In any event, it is important to note that this material is not from Paizo and has not been endorsed by Paizo in any way.second your Gm trump dossen't apply
like i said I have to climb the flasks get tucked away, once I'm up the ladder out they come again
meet somone new one goes away to shake hands my other hand is still holding one.
unless the GM plans on starting every single combat while we need to be doing somthing with our hands, I have 2 drawn and can drink both as a moveand third flasks have stoppers do they not ? 2 flasks glued together the one not being drunk still has a stopper and won't pour out when your drinking the other.
As a GM I tend to allow a lot of stuff, generally because I like it when people think outside of the box. When people seem to be gaming the system, I tend to rely on the law of unintended consequences. Chugging TWO potions AS ONE ACTION is not the same as chugging two potions as back-to-back move actions. In my game I would allow it, but there would be a fort save, and if you fail something bad happens ...