Spells...See these are cool NPC spells, but they're just too dark for my current Witch :(
Still can't wait to get mah book!!
I agree and as I stated above it seems they are trying to force witch players down the evil, or at least ambiguously neutral, track.
It's definitely good. It lets you double to triple the number of rounds per day you get out of Inspire Courage and other round-by-round performances, at least at later levels (or with feats such as the one in the campaign setting) when you don't have to use a standard action to start a performance.
If it's good or bad is not really a problem. It gives people options.
However I still think it's a bit pointless. The Lingering effect is more or less of no use. What I mean by that is it does let you do stuff you can't do today. The feat only gives the bard more rounds per day which seem to indicate this is only a more powerful version of Extra Performance. To me that's more or less saying Jason realized that the feat Extra Performance was to weak opr that he realized the bard needs more roundss per day. A dog is a dog. Calling a dog a cat won't change that. They could just as well called it improved Extra Performance or simply say this feat replaces Extra Performance. As for higher levels you don't need more rounds per day. By level 7 or 8 our bard NEVER ran out of rounds.But I guess if you are a bard/barbarian it can be useful.
As for all the alternative bards...If I get it right they lose their core rule bardic Performance and get other bardic Performance. To me a Bard without Inspire Courage is no Bard. Again this is no problem to me. I will just keep on playing the Core rule bard. But I had hoped for the possibility to swap inspire heroics and Inspire greatness or at least have a Lingering effect so you could combine Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness or inspire heroics...Since I'm one of those people who think Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness suck.
Again, I'm not upset. from what I've heard there are some really cool new bard spells :-)
I agree and as I stated above it seems they are trying to force witch players down the evil, or at least ambiguously neutral, track.
Historically, that is accurate usage of the term....:)
is there anything changed with the Cavalier?
Is there any feats that realy stand out?
I would be interested in summary of the changes with the Cavalier too.
I kept checking my email, but they still have not sent my order yet.
Does the arcane duelist bard get anything special with his bound weapon? It seems like a great big disadvantage, since he doesn't get any of the benefits - just the penalty to casting if he loses it.
Also, other then Extra ______, are there any good alchemist feats? How about items?
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It's definitely good. It lets you double to triple the number of rounds per day you get out of Inspire Courage and other round-by-round performances, at least at later levels (or with feats such as the one in the campaign setting) when you don't have to use a standard action to start a performance.If it's good or bad is not really a problem. It gives people options.
However I still think it's a bit pointless. The Lingering effect is more or less of no use. What I mean by that is it does let you do stuff you can't do today. The feat only gives the bard more rounds per day which seem to indicate this is only a more powerful version of Extra Performance. To me that's more or less saying Jason realized that the feat Extra Performance was to weak opr that he realized the bard needs more roundss per day. A dog is a dog. Calling a dog a cat won't change that. They could just as well called it improved Extra Performance or simply say this feat replaces Extra Performance. As for higher levels you don't need more rounds per day. By level 7 or 8 our bard NEVER ran out of rounds.
But I guess if you are a bard/barbarian it can be useful.
As for all the alternative bards...If I get it right they lose their core rule bardic Performance and get other bardic Performance. To me a Bard without Inspire Courage is no Bard. Again this is no problem to me. I will just keep on playing the Core rule bard. But I had hoped for the possibility to swap inspire heroics and Inspire greatness or at least have a Lingering effect so you could combine Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness or inspire heroics...Since I'm one of those people who think Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness suck.
Again, I'm not upset. from what I've heard there are some really cool new bard spells :-)
In essence I agree with you and think that you are 100% right. However I think that you're thinking in terms of single class bards too much. This feat is a godsend for multiclass bards (not just bard/barbarian).
I agree and as I stated above it seems they are trying to force witch players down the evil, or at least ambiguously neutral, track.Historically, that is accurate usage of the term....:)
As a Wiccan forgive me if I take offence to that comment.
No other class(apart from Paladins) are railroaded by the rules in this way
In essence I agree with you and think that you are 100% right. However I think that you're thinking in terms of single class bards too much. This feat is a godsend for multiclass bards (not just bard/barbarian).
Name me 3 multiclass bards examples.
Anyway, I had hoped "The Bard" would get some use of the The Lingering effect, he doesn't.
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In essence I agree with you and think that you are 100% right. However I think that you're thinking in terms of single class bards too much. This feat is a godsend for multiclass bards (not just bard/barbarian).
Name me 3 multiclass bards examples.
Anyway, I had hoped "The Bard" would get some use of the The Lingering effect, he doesn't.
I can name one:
Bard/Arcane Archer. Devastating.|
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Yeah, but print distributors and LGS owners are probably not entirely happy while reading this thread.As if this thread is hurting their sales? Please. I already bought my book and this just makes me want it even more. Best advertising ever. Keep that crunch coming, I say!
In my case, this thread made me go and pre-order it from Amazon.
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In my case, this thread made me go and pre-order it from Amazon.Yeah, but print distributors and LGS owners are probably not entirely happy while reading this thread.As if this thread is hurting their sales? Please. I already bought my book and this just makes me want it even more. Best advertising ever. Keep that crunch coming, I say!
Good luck on getting the book within a month, then :)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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As for all the alternative bards...If I get it right they lose their core rule bardic Performance and get other bardic Performance. To me a Bard without Inspire Courage is no Bard. Again this is no problem to me. I will just keep on playing the Core rule bard. But I had hoped for the possibility to swap inspire heroics and Inspire greatness or at least have a Lingering effect so you could combine Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness or inspire heroics...Since I'm one of those people who think Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness suck.
It's definitely good. It lets you double to triple the number of rounds per day you get out of Inspire Courage and other round-by-round performances, at least at later levels (or with feats such as the one in the campaign setting) when you don't have to use a standard action to start a performance.
The two bolded statements above seem like a strangely inconsistent position.
You think that inspire courage sucks. But you think that a bard without it is no bard at all?
If you think it sucks, I would tend to think that at the same time you'd feel yourself well rid of it for something better.
Anyway, that point aside, it sounds like you will be interested to discover the Battle Herald PrC, which is able to do precisely what you suggest: to begin and maintain separate, simultaneous performances and inspiring commands (which are like bardic performance but do more and different combat-related stuff). I imagine they'd get a lot of mileage out of Lingering Performance as well.
As for all the alternative bards...If I get it right they lose their core rule bardic Performance and get other bardic Performance. To me a Bard without Inspire Courage is no Bard. Again this is no problem to me. I will just keep on playing the Core rule bard. But I had hoped for the possibility to swap inspire heroics and Inspire greatness or at least have a Lingering effect so you could combine Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness or inspire heroics...Since I'm one of those people who think Inspire Courage and Inspire greatness suck.
It's definitely good. It lets you double to triple the number of rounds per day you get out of Inspire Courage and other round-by-round performances, at least at later levels (or with feats such as the one in the campaign setting) when you don't have to use a standard action to start a performance.The two bolded statements above seem like a strangely inconsistent position.
You think that inspire courage sucks. But you think that a bard without it is no bard at all?
Bad copy and paste. I meant Inspire greatness and Inspire Heroics suck.
edit: I love Inspire Courage :-)
Anyway, that point aside, it sounds like you will be interested to discover the Battle Herald PrC, which is able to do precisely what you suggest: to begin and maintain separate, simultaneous performances and inspiring commands (which are like bardic performance but do more and different combat-related stuff). I imagine they'd get a lot of mileage out of Lingering Performance as well.
Thanks for the answer :-)
My point on still stands on the Lingering effect as far as pure core rule bard goes.
In essence I agree with you and think that you are 100% right. However I think that you're thinking in terms of single class bards too much. This feat is a godsend for multiclass bards (not just bard/barbarian).
Name me 3 multiclass bards examples.
Anyway, I had hoped "The Bard" would get some use of the The Lingering effect, he doesn't.
I can name one:
Bard/Arcane Archer. Devastating.
You quoted my out of context.
Name me 3 multiclass combination where you need the Lingering effect to be able to use bardic performance.As far as I know rage is the only class ability that prevents the use of charsima based skills.
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In essence I agree with you and think that you are 100% right. However I think that you're thinking in terms of single class bards too much. This feat is a godsend for multiclass bards (not just bard/barbarian).
Name me 3 multiclass bards examples.
Anyway, I had hoped "The Bard" would get some use of the The Lingering effect, he doesn't.
Bard/Paladin, Bard/duelist, Bard/cleric
And did you not hear me say that I agree that you are right. However, any multiclass combination is loosing out on their rounds per day so having a feat that can in essence triple them is a godsend no matter what multiclass combination you use, why the need to be so contrary?
In essence I agree with you and think that you are 100% right. However I think that you're thinking in terms of single class bards too much. This feat is a godsend for multiclass bards (not just bard/barbarian).
Name me 3 multiclass bards examples.
Anyway, I had hoped "The Bard" would get some use of the The Lingering effect, he doesn't.
Bard/Paladin, Bard/duelist, Bard/cleric
And did you not hear me say that I agree that you are right. However, any multiclass combination is loosing out on their rounds per day so having a feat that can in essence triple them is a godsend no matter what multiclass combination you use, why the need to be so contrary?
Edit thrice:
Yes I understand you :-)I just meant that Bard/barbarian is the only class combination that NEEDS the lingering effect. It's still a nice feat if you want more round per day.
As far as I know rage is the only class ability that prevents the use of charsima based skills
Edit: You just taught me a new word, contrary. Thanks, It migt come in handy ;-)
RE: Lingering
Is it possible to thread songs together, like in a few popular MMOs?
Round 1) Start Inspire Courage
Round 2) End it. Inspire courage still goes on. Start Inspire Greatness
Round 3) End Inspire Greatness. Both it and Inspire Courage are active. Start Inspire Heroics.
Round 4) End Inspire Heroics, start Inspire Courage. Continue to loop. All three songs are active.
RE: Lingering
Is it possible to thread songs together, like in a few popular MMOs?
No
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RE: Lingering
Is it possible to thread songs together, like in a few popular MMOs?
Round 1) Start Inspire Courage
Round 2) End it. Inspire courage still goes on. Start Inspire Greatness
Round 3) End Inspire Greatness. Both it and Inspire Courage are active. Start Inspire Heroics.
Round 4) End Inspire Heroics, start Inspire Courage. Continue to loop. All three songs are active.
That's more Guitar Hero or Dance Dance Revolution there ;-)
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Good luck on getting the book within a month, then :)In my case, this thread made me go and pre-order it from Amazon.Yeah, but print distributors and LGS owners are probably not entirely happy while reading this thread.As if this thread is hurting their sales? Please. I already bought my book and this just makes me want it even more. Best advertising ever. Keep that crunch coming, I say!
I know. The saving are just too good to pass up. I can't justify paying full price for a 40 dollar book.
I just spent some time looking at the Barbarian section of the APG and I personally think they dropped the ball. How many of us can agree that the barbarian got a short end of the melee goodiness that pathfinder was giving out. The main focus of the class is the Rage and Rage Powers however most of them are once per rage and the scaling on them seems to be so much higher then powers for Paladin or Fighter...
Looking at the APG and the new rage powers scale even sharper it looks like... I feel as though the changes put the barbarian farther behind the rest of the melee classes. People with the PDF tell me what you think.
Elementalists ('scuze me, Elemental Arcane Schools):
Your opposing element is your opposition school: air/earth, fire/water
Air: Air Supremacy looks excellent, Lightning Flash and Cyclone (@8th) solid, but not stunning.
Earth: Earth Supremacy ok, Acid Cloud solid, Earth Glide (@8th)... is earth glide. You know it, you love it.
Fire: Fire Supremacy nice, Fire Jet solid, Dancing Flame (@8th) sculpting / moving fires. Would need to see in play, but it's not blowing me away. Fire is likely to have the strongest spell list, but the easiest to defend against. Hmm.
Water: Water Supremacy ok, Cold Blast solid, Wave (@8th) seems pretty nice.
Spells: Elementalists get a lot of love here. Some interesting choices for existing spells. Grease ends up on the Earth list. Aqueous Orb is 3rd level. A fair number of old and new spells are applicable to All (of course. You can probably guess many of the All spells). The lists are all still fairly limited, though. Still a lot to like.
NoRE: Lingering
Is it possible to thread songs together, like in a few popular MMOs?
Dang, there goes that idea :p
I think Lingering could still be useful for bards who PrC out, mind you.
Why can't you thread songs together?
I agree and as I stated above it seems they are trying to force witch players down the evil, or at least ambiguously neutral, track.Historically, that is accurate usage of the term....:)As a Wiccan forgive me if I take offence to that comment.
No other class(apart from Paladins) are railroaded by the rules in this way
i have a few wiccan friends and they make the same mistake you have here, they confuse the wiccan (witch) with the mythic witch which never actually existed but was the source for all the evil witch stereotypes.
ask your self this, do you consider the wicked witch from the west a wiccan?, you yourself even didn't refer to yourself as a witch but as a wiccan and that is because you see a difference between the two.
Why can't you thread songs together?
The Lingering Performance feat (or whatever it's called, I forget) specifically says it ends if you start a new performance.
HAVE ORACLE CURSES CHANGED ANY?
No need to shout, it was mention in a thread a while back that you count half your non-oracle levels toward your oracle level for determining your bonus. (I don't have the book, but it was mentioned in one of the previews)
For example: a sorcerer6/ oracle6/ mystic theurge 8 has an effect oracle level of 13 to determine the effects of the curse.
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I agree and as I stated above it seems they are trying to force witch players down the evil, or at least ambiguously neutral, track.Historically, that is accurate usage of the term....:)As a Wiccan forgive me if I take offence to that comment.
No other class(apart from Paladins) are railroaded by the rules in this way
i have a few wiccan friends and they make the same mistake you have here, they confuse the wiccan (witch) with the mythic witch which never actually existed but was the source for all the evil witch stereotypes.
ask your self this, do you consider the wicked witch from the west a wiccan?, you yourself even didn't refer to yourself as a witch but as a wiccan and that is because you see a difference between the two.
Given the religious atmosphere in some parts of the world, being a tad defensive about the word is understandable.
ot
Imagine growing up as a wee little wiccan and wanting to play some pathfinder and thinking - alright, gonna play me a witch with some magic powers and then to your horror finding out you've been cast as the villain of the piece. Mean while your christian buddy can play a paladin or a cleric.
Of course I've never been bothered that as an athiest I'm doomed for all eternity in Golarion :)
Ah, Hammer of Thunderbolts is back.
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HAVE ORACLE CURSES CHANGED ANY?
To add to the question: Are they still an excuse to give Oracles even more powers and are some of them still too easy to get around the "curse" part?
For Example: Limp. You cannot move as fast but become more dwarf-like when it comes to encumbrance. Now you take the Nature Mystery and the Bonded Mount Revelation. Guess who is faster?
Have the Cavalier's choice of mounts opened up at all or is it still the "You can ride anything now that you've graduated Mounted Combat College. As your reward, you can only ever ride this horse or camel" silliness that it was in the Final Playtest? This question extends to the Bonded Mount revelation mentioned above.
I agree and as I stated above it seems they are trying to force witch players down the evil, or at least ambiguously neutral, track.Historically, that is accurate usage of the term....:)As a Wiccan forgive me if I take offence to that comment.
No other class(apart from Paladins) are railroaded by the rules in this way
i have a few wiccan friends and they make the same mistake you have here, they confuse the wiccan (witch) with the mythic witch which never actually existed but was the source for all the evil witch stereotypes.
ask your self this, do you consider the wicked witch from the west a wiccan?, you yourself even didn't refer to yourself as a witch but as a wiccan and that is because you see a difference between the two.
Given the religious atmosphere in some parts of the world, being a tad defensive about the word is understandable.
ot
** spoiler omitted **
i had no intent to offend anyone, from my point of view the wiccan and the witch are two very separate entities and as such don't have any crossover, now having said that i can understand why any wiccan might take offense.
Personally I saw the druid and oracle as better representatives of wiccan traditions (though I am not expert).
it all just comes down to personal opinion i guess
Kierato wrote:
Why can't you thread songs together?
The Lingering Performance feat (or whatever it's called, I forget) specifically says it ends if you start a new performance.
I've never actually seen the feat, only heard people talk about it, thank you for that clarification.
Guys could we get back on topic and leave th other stuff for other threads.
How about some love for the Urban Ranger and maybe some more of the goodies for the Spy Master? Thanks
it all just comes down to personal opinion i guessThat's just, like, your opinion, man.
The dude abides.
enough distraction, did they lift some of the mount restrictions on the cavelier? Can I ride a river elk?
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In my case, this thread made me go and pre-order it from Amazon.As opposed to say, your local game store.
Try finding me a FLGS here. http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q= vanderhoof+bc&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=27.382728,79.013672& ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Vanderhoof,+Bulkley-Nechako+Regional+District,+Br itish+Columbia&t=h&z=13
Difficulty, no car.
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it all just comes down to personal opinion i guessThat's just, like, your opinion, man.The dude abides.
enough distraction, did they lift some of the mount restrictions on the cavelier? Can I ride a river elk?
It was semi-lifted in the final playtest and remains so in the final APG: GM might approve other mounts.
Detective Bard is the answer to the Sherlock Holmes style character. We had an Eberron campaign where one of my players made a character named 'Sherlock Gnome', and that character needs to resurface at some point as a Detective Bard. They have performance abilities where they essentially give their long monologue about their deductive process and it forces the criminal to blurt out their guilt if they fail a will save, just like in the old detective stories. They also gain some investigative bonuses to appropriate skills, and replace inspire courage with the ability to aid such skills for the whole team.
Sherlock Gnomes coming up ;-)
if someone wouldn't mind could you list the different new archetypes for the barbarian?
If it hasn't been mentioned, the Overhand Chop tree is back as a Fighter alternate feature.
DUUUUDDEE!!
Awesome, was gonna ask about it when you posted, hehe. How is it? Is it the two handed weapon fighter Archetype?
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If it hasn't been mentioned, the Overhand Chop tree is back as a Fighter alternate feature.DUUUUDDEE!!
Awesome, was gonna ask about it when you posted, hehe. How is it? Is it the two handed weapon fighter Archetype?
Trades in Armor Training for the feat tree and some other goodies. Weapon Training only applies to two-handed weapons. At high levels, he doubles Str bonus to damage instead of x1.5, and can make attacks that automatically threaten crit or initiate a bull rush or trip.
Trades in Armor Training for the feat tree and some other goodies. Weapon Training only applies to two-handed weapons. At high levels, he doubles Str bonus to damage instead of x1.5, and can make attacks that automatically threaten crit or initiate a bull rush or trip.If it hasn't been mentioned, the Overhand Chop tree is back as a Fighter alternate feature.DUUUUDDEE!!
Awesome, was gonna ask about it when you posted, hehe. How is it? Is it the two handed weapon fighter Archetype?
Wow, great stuff dude! Thanks.