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Even if the DM rolls behind the screen, this ability could still work:
DM: OK, Cleric Player, the huge enemy monster spots you. He makes a 5 foot step toward you and swings his deadly scythe at you ... how many hit points do you have left by the way?
Cleric Player: Um, only 8 left ... I think I might be in trouble ... can you roll so I can see it please? I'm probably gonna want to use my Tugging strands ability if he rolls high.
DM: Sure. Rolls a D20 where players can see and rolls a natural Twenty.
DM: Nice ...
Cleric Player: Wait! I'm going to use my Tugging strands ability to make you re-roll.
DM: probably for the best, the enemy was using a scythe and power attack anyway...
ALSO, I would think you can use this ability on your friends as well:
DM: OK, Rogue Player, the narrow ledge around the super deep pit is even harder to navigate than you thought. Give me a Reflex save to avoid falling and taking some hefty damage.
Rogue Player: Uh oh ... I'm pretty low on hit points - if I fall, I don't think I'll survive.
Rogue Player rolls D20 ... rolls a 1.
Rogue Player: Oh CRAP!
Cleric Player: Wait! I'm going to use my Tugging strands ability to make you re-roll.
Rogue Player: Cool! Thanks!
I knew this was coming and it should be fun enough, but I really wish that Paizo had gone with a talent system rather than alternate class features.
Inevitably you're still getting locked into specific concepts and using templates, rather than having building blocks to play around with.
With a talent system you'd have good Lego brick mechanics to be able to be able to mechanically tease out what you're really after, rather than having to follow specific paths.
While I love the Star Wars Saga talent system, I don't think it would be directly applicable to Pathfinder, if any backwards compatibility should be kept. The classes are too different, with some having several class features per level and others having none, but spellcasting.
Since tugging strands is only usable a few times a day, I'm betting most people will only use it for critical hits and fumbles.
Sooooooooooo cool. I'm a little bit too eager to see that book in my local nerd-store.
I'm interested in seeing how the fighter alternates work out. Hopefully it's not just more bonuses to hit and damage when using two handed weapons/dual wielding/whatever, they've got plenty of those as it is.
I am pumped for these. The bard, barbarian and ranger ones seem cool. I wanna play a skald, totem warrior, elemental kin, skirmisher sound great. The monk ones look cool too. Weapon adept!
E
Or you could particularly evil towards your friends.
Fighter: *grumble* I’ve been rolling like crap all day, probably will miss again here. *rolls die* Woot! Natural 20!
Sorceror: Um, I think I’m going to activate my Tugging Strands ability. Roll again. Sorry Joe. *snicker from the DM*
*Joe glares at Sorceror*
Of course, that would only accomplish wasting the ability and pissing off your party members, especially Joe, but just the evil me in rearing it’s ugly head. Lol And, on top of that, with Murphy’s Law, we know it would come around and bite you back, anyways.
Elementalists! Shamen! Urban Rangers/Druids!
Also:
Bard: Sandman (master of lullabies?)
Ranger: Shapeshifter (Ooo, druidic wildshaping ranger?)
Sorceror: Protean Bloodline (eat chaos, baby)
Hurry, GenCon. Hurry fast.
I'm a bit disappointed that the APG classes aren't represented in the archetypes.
EDIT: To be clear, it's a mild disappointment. I would have liked to see archetypes for them, but I still really like most of the classes (I could take or leave the alchemist) and intend to buy the book. Just an "I wish" instead of a "OMG how could you".
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Or you could particularly evil towards your friends.
Heh. That's called, "Being a DM."
Barbarian Player: "This guy needs to die, or we're all in trouble. Rage, Powerful Blow, Power attack." Rolls a 20. "Yes! 'Bout time!"
DM: "The cleric in the back makes an odd motion towards you and it feels as though the strands of fate are tugging at you. Reroll that d20, please."
Barbarian Player: "Wha...?"
This is literally getting me dizzy!
Beastmen/riders: Mounted Fury, Shamans, Roughrider(?), Beast Master, Horse Lord, Shapeshifter. SWEET!
Old school references: Superstitious, Antipaladin, Acrobat, Deepearth. Thanks!
Official takes on House rule subjects: Archer, Crossbowman, Savage Warrior, Empty Hand, Protean Bloodline. Nice!
"Non-Prestige classes": Arcane Duelist, Swashbuckler. Yes!
That book will drain my free-time and I like it!
Subscribe NOW and you'll get the PDF early ! No need to wait until GenCon !
Oh yeah, I'm a subscriber. "Hurry just-before-GenCon-so-I-can-get-the-pdf" just doesn't have the same ring to it. Besides, I usually have other stuff in my sidecart that puts me at the tail end of the subscriber shipments.
But you folks out there who don't subscribe, but are licking your chops over this- subscribers get the .pdf for free AND you can download it as soon as your book(s) ships. It's a beautiful thing.
These previews are doing a good job of proving that the Advanced Player's Guide will get some use in my group. One of the PCs is a human sorcerer who has been lamenting her lack of spells, and preview #1 demonstrated an easy way to allow her some more flexibility there. One of the other PCs is a bard who has been relying more on taunting foes than inspiring allies, so I'll definitely be suggesting the court bard option for him.
Ok, so we have Rogues who can be scouts, and Rangers who can be skirmishers.
I am really liking this. Based on what the alternate class features actually are of course :-)
And I'm surprised that no-one has picked up on the comment in the previous section:
While the GM should always strive to help players run the characters they want, ultimately she knows what's best for the campaign.
Friction, anyone? Unless that sentence is to only apply in retrospective changes to existing characters, and not to the campaign in general of course.
I too am getting a lot of 2nd ed flashbacks and enjoying it. This may help my one second ed supremacist in my group come around to pathfinder a bit more.
...If only the assassin was there...
I'm curious about the Poisoner for that.
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So;
Barbarian: Breaker, Brutal Pugilist, Drunken Brute, Elemental Kin, Hurler, Invulnerable Rager, Mounted Fury, Savage Barbarian, Suoerrtitious, Totem Warrior
AND New Rage powersBard: Arcane Deulist, Archivist, Court Bard, Detective, Magician, Sandman, Savage Skald, Sea Singer, Street Preformer
Cleric: Subdomians
Druid: Aquatic Druid, Arctic Druid, Blight Druid, Cave Druid, Desert Druid, Jungle Druid, Mountain Druid, Plains Druid, Swamp Druid, Urban Druid.
OR
Bear Shaman, Eagle Shaman, Lion Shaman, Serpent Shaman, Wolf ShamanFighter: Archer, Crossbowman, Freehand Fighter, Mobile Fighter, Phalanx Soldier, Polearm Master, Roughrider, Savage Warrior, Shielded Fighter, Two Handed Fighter, Two Weapon Warrior, Weapon Master.
Monk: Drunken Master, Hungry Ghost Monk, Ki Mystic, Monk of the Empty Hand, Monk of the Four Winds, Monk of the Healing Hand, Monk of the Lotus, Monk of the Sacred Mountain, Weapon Adept, Zen Archer
Paladin: Divine Defender, Hospitaler, Sacred Servant, Shining Knight, Undead Scourge, Warrior of the Holy Light
OR
AntipaladinRanger: Beast Master, Guide, Horse Lord, Infiltrator, Shapeshifter, Skirmisher, Spirit Ranger, Urban Ranger
AND New Combat Styles.Rogue: Acrobat, Burglar, Cutpurse, Investigator, Poisoner, Rake, Scout, Sniper, Spy, Swashbuckler, Thug, Trapsmith
AND new rogue talents and advanced talents.Sorceror: Aquatic Bloodline, Boreal Bloodline, Deepearth Bloodline, Dreamspun Bloodline, Protean Bloodline, Serpentine Bloodline, Shadow Bloodline, Stormborn Bloodline, Verdant Bloodline.
Wizard: Elemental Schools and Focused Schools.
This list just made my Thursday. I'm so smurf-ing excited for this book.
Sweet Desna, please don't make this one of Your dreams...!
Ooh, I wonder if the Superstitious barbarian will be the "no spells please!" archetype from editions past...?
I also don't think that the Tugging Strands ability works well for DMs who roll behind a screen. What criteria would they or the player apply to ask for a roll in public? There are too many rolls that are important after the event...
I don't see the benefit of this ability. Or am I not understanding this right?
Think you just rolled a one on a save or the Dm says he rolled a 20 to hit you, that can be rerolled it stops Epic fails on your parties part
Even if the DM rolls behind the screen, this ability could still work:
<snip>
Rogue Player: Cool! Thanks!
Nice example, thanks! It wasn't clear to me that the player got to see the dice roll before the DM announced the result.
This power will be rather easy to use, I think:
DM: NATURAL TWENTY WITH A SCYTHE MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
Player: Errr ... try again, mister !
DM: *cries*
I see this more as:
DM: NATURAL TWENTY WITH A SCYTHE BIAAAAAATCH!!!
Player: Ummm yeah, about that. Tugging Strands FTW.
DM: *mutters to himself how he will one day get that cleric and his little dog too*
I too am excited about the release of this book. I'm sure with a bit of kit bashing/homebrewing, you can make just about any type of class you want.
I also don't think that the Tugging Strands ability works well for DMs who roll behind a screen. What criteria would they or the player apply to ask for a roll in public? There are too many rolls that are important after the event...
Even with DMs who roll behind a screen, Tugging Strands can be used to aid your friends - which seems like an effective and potent use. Actually, I don't think there is anything preventing you from using on yourself. Great way to get out of a natural one, or a second chance at an important attack roll you know isn't going to hit because you rolled a 3.
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I also don't think that the Tugging Strands ability works well for DMs who roll behind a screen. What criteria would they or the player apply to ask for a roll in public? There are too many rolls that are important after the event...Even with DMs who roll behind a screen, Tugging Strands can be used to aid your friends - which seems like an effective and potent use. Actually, I don't think there is anything preventing you from using on yourself. Great way to get out of a natural one, or a second chance at an important attack roll you know isn't going to hit because you rolled a 3.
Or a low concentration check maybe?
There's some really great stuff here. I'm especially interested in seeing how the Shapeshifter varient of the Ranger works. Is it just Druid wildshape tacked onto the ranger, or can he do more fun things like growing claws and assuming hybrid forms? I'd love it if this was a way for people to play as things like werewolves (or at least something close to a werewolf) without having to take a level adjustment.
I'm just wondering, are there going to be Archetypes for the new classes as well? Though, I suppose you guys might be trying to simply give them so many class options that Archetypes aren't nessissary, lol.
I find this interesting, as proteans are snaky, anyway. And they seem to be the only other outsider race that get one, while the order-loving creeps or daemons don't. I guess it makes sense for the lawfuls, they're all so right and proper about anything, they want to keep the races segregated.Protean Bloodline, Serpentine Bloodline
The Protean Bloodline looks FUN. Nothing like the ability to tear reality a new one. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.
You guys must have nice DMs. In my group, several of the DMs have determined that by rolling a 1 or a 20, you already know the result, thus you can't reroll. If you roll a 2, you don't know if that will hit or not, though usually not. But if you a roll a 1, it's an auto-miss and thus you already know you're not hitting, thus it's impossible to use an ability that lets you reroll before you know the result because by the fact of rolling a 1, you DO already know the result.
You guys must have nice DMs. In my group, several of the DMs have determined that by rolling a 1 or a 20, you already know the result, thus you can't reroll. If you roll a 2, you don't know if that will hit or not, though usually not. But if you a roll a 1, it's an auto-miss and thus you already know you're not hitting, thus it's impossible to use an ability that lets you reroll before you know the result because by the fact of rolling a 1, you DO already know the result.
Alright, that's just mean, lol. It does make sense though, I guess it is just following a strict interpretation of the rules.
Maybe the player with the reroll ability could just ask if the roll was lower than a 5 or higher than a 16 instead of looking at it? Then he won't know if it was a 1 or 20 ;)
Edit: Actually, by the same logic as the 1 and 20 argument, your GMs could say that once players have (by process of elimation) figured out what rolls hit and which ones miss, they can no longer use their rerolls. I think as long as the players just know the number on the dice, they should be able to use their rerolls.
Director of Games
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Hey there Everybody,
Just a quick note on the reroll mechanic. It does require your GM to be a little more open with his or her rolls. If this is truly a problem, it should be pretty easy to ask your GM to let you know when the bad guys have rolled a 15+ (or so) in combat or you can always be proactive about it and ask for the roll on particularly critical moments.
Honestly, I see this being used on the player's side of the screen far more often.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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I find this interesting, as proteans are snaky, anyway. And they seem to be the only other outsider race that get one, while the order-loving creeps or daemons don't. I guess it makes sense for the lawfuls, they're all so right and proper about anything, they want to keep the races segregated.Protean Bloodline, Serpentine Bloodline
Umm Celestial, abyssal, fiendish... maybe not specific races but proteans aren't really a single race either.
Thank you for this; my eyes suck, and I had a hard time reading all of that. :)
+1
I know this is probably just me, but I'm actually a bit disappointed with the previews so far. They haven't really revealed anything meaty. Not much as the Core rulebook previews did anyway. Perhaps Jason just spoiled us back then.
As for the new bard I'm not sure if I like it or not.
Big surprise for those of you who know my stand on the bard ;-)
Court bard and a normal bard seem like they'd have a very interesting dynamic when working together. One inspiring, the other satiring; one buffing, the other focusing on SoS spells. Throw in a Conjurer or a Summoner and you could have quite a huge shift.
Yeah I think I might want to alter my bard to be a court jester :)
Declan the Insult Comic Bard.|
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Court bard and a normal bard seem like they'd have a very interesting dynamic when working together. One inspiring, the other satiring; one buffing, the other focusing on SoS spells. Throw in a Conjurer or a Summoner and you could have quite a huge shift.
At the very least it opens up the possibility of having multiple bards in a party. Currently it's a bit of a waste to have more than one bard in the party because a good percentage of their abilities are redundant.