RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I just have a quick question. Can a first level Paladin, or Ranger make use of a Cure light wounds wand? Thank you
Short answer, yes.
Longer answer:
Spell trigger items can be used by anyone
whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.
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That is broken. If i am a ranger and can't cast a spell before the third level what is the possible justification for using a wand? At first and second levels you could be training to cast a particular spell, but hey no matter, just by signing up to be a ranger lets me use a wand. Why not take on level of cleric, one level of magic user and then become a fighter who now can use every wand or scroll in the game?
I am playing a sorcerer for the first time, so a couple of third level players, buy up some wands, and since he can use other peoples items during the course of a module, he now becomes a caster only limited by what his cronies can buy and hold for him.
This game has been outstanding in avoiding all the the rules that broke all previous "living" games. Why ruin it now with this kind of broken. BS. I mean a wand with 50 charges for someone who can't even cast a spell is insane.
That is broken. If i am a ranger and can't cast a spell before the third level what is the possible justification for using a wand? At first and second levels you could be training to cast a particular spell, but hey no matter, just by signing up to be a ranger lets me use a wand. Why not take on level of cleric, one level of magic user and then become a fighter who now can use every wand or scroll in the game?
I am playing a sorcerer for the first time, so a couple of third level players, buy up some wands, and since he can use other peoples items during the course of a module, he now becomes a caster only limited by what his cronies can buy and hold for him.
This game has been outstanding in avoiding all the the rules that broke all previous "living" games. Why ruin it now with this kind of broken. BS. I mean a wand with 50 charges for someone who can't even cast a spell is insane.
One level of fighter gets you proficiency with every weapon, armor, and shield in the game that aren't exotic and a feat. One level of barbarian gives you 10 feet of movement and 4-8 rounds of rage. One level of bard gives you +1 to all knowledge checks, gives your entire party +1 to all attack and damage rolls for 4-8 rounds per day, and the ability to use all cure wands (as well as greater invisiblity wands, summon monster wants, haste wands, etc).
How is one level of ranger giving you +2 to attack and damage on one type of creature, +1 to tracking, and the ability to use all cure wands and few others more broken than that?
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Scrolls
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll
user must meet the following requirements.
• The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine).
Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only
use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters
(clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls
containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character
creates is also determined by his class.)
• The user must have the spell on her class list.
• The user must have the requisite ability score.
If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and
her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level,
she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If
she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is
lower than the scroll spell’s caster level.
Max spell level 9th.
Wands
Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method,
so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action
that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.
Max spell level 4th.
So no you can't take just one level from a casting class and use any scroll. But you can wands. The up side it low level healing is easy for a ranger or paladin. The down side is at mid to high levels your using 1/2 a wand to heal your self with.
Sample prices for wands and Scrolls created at the lowest possible caster level.
Wand of Cure Critical Wounds: 50 charges. 4D8+7 per charge. Cost 21,000 GP. Can be used by Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Orical, and Witch. Not effective in combat at high level. Or any one with UMD DC 20. Total cost 18.26GP per hp healed on avrage.
Scroll of Heal: Total Healed 110-150 Cost 1,650. Can be used by Cleric(11), Orical(12), Druid(13),and Witch(13).Effective in combat at high level. Or any one with UMD DC 31. Total cost 15gp per hp healed on avrage
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Cure light costs 750 gold and is good for D8+1 / charge. Each charge costs 15 GP, the same charge as a potion costs 50 GP, and you do not think that is broken?
Fifty magic missals being cast by a brand new arcane cater with the help of a friend is not broken? What do you think would constitute broken?
Cure light costs 750 gold and is good for D8+1 / charge. Each charge costs 15 GP, the same charge as a potion costs 50 GP, and you do not think that is broken?
Fifty magic missals being cast by a brand new arcane cater with the help of a friend is not broken? What do you think would constitute broken?
50 magic missles in 50 rounds is not broken, is my fighter broken? he can hurt things alllll day and only misses on a one AND does more damage
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Cure light costs 750 gold and is good for D8+1 / charge. Each charge costs 15 GP, the same charge as a potion costs 50 GP, and you do not think that is broken?
Casting a spell or channelling positive energy costs 0 gp rather than 15 gp.
You have to have, and be able to spend, 750 gp rather than 50 gp. In a home game, you might have to find, or play, a spellcaster with the Craft Wand feat, which is not a free feat for any class and not a bonus feat for a class that can cast cure light wounds.
If the fighter is the only character left standing, he can use a potion on the cleric, but not a wand.
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At low level it's realy usefull. 1D8+1 with 50 charges = 250hp healed in 50 rounds. You can hit some one for 1D4+1 every round for 50 rounds. Let me know how this works after level 5?
The long and short.
Low levels wands are wonderfull.
Mid levels wands reduce down time and help some.
High levels wands only a few are still usefull.
IE Wand of Haste, Wand of Enlarge Person/Enlarge Person(Mass), Wand of Spider Clime, Wand of Restoration,Lesser/Restoration.
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When you determine whether something is broken or not, you need to keep in mind that the real determination is how much stuff you can get done in one round.
1st level ranger can attack with his bow, possibly with two arrows. He might send a pet in to attack. He might move in and attack with a melee weapon.
Choosing to use a wand to heal himself for 1d8+1 hp instead of killing the creature that is dealing 1d8+5 damage... not broken.
Now, if he could use as many charges per round as he wanted, you'd have something.
Or if he got it for free. Or if it didn't consume charges.
Then you might have an argument about *broken*. But really, the most *broken* I've seen a wand of cure light wounds go to was keeping an oracle from taking aoo's while tossing heals to his allies. Once a round.
Cure light costs 750 gold and is good for D8+1 / charge. Each charge costs 15 GP, the same charge as a potion costs 50 GP, and you do not think that is broken?
Fifty magic missals being cast by a brand new arcane cater with the help of a friend is not broken? What do you think would constitute broken?
I'll point out that based on the wealth-by-level tables, no PC can have a wand at 1st level (unless they dedicate a trait to having one: Rich parents), and also shouldn't have a wand at 2nd level (Wealth by level is 1000, but no more than half on any one item). If the GM gives his players a fully charged wand before 3rd level, you can't complain that it's broken in general any more than if he gave them a +3 sword or even a +2 to strength item at the same level. And if the GM isn't giving his players that wand, they have no way to get it, so it's irrelevant what they could do if they had a wand.
EDIT: To add to what Shadow_of_death said, you're asking us to say that doing 1d4+1 damage automatically every round (at the cost of 15g per attack) is broken, but 1d3 damage per round with a ranged touch (acid splach, ray of frost) for free is not, and 2d6+6 with a regular attack (barbarian/fighter with a greatsword) for free is not.
It's like band-aids.. Useful for when you got time, not that much when someone is trying to kill you ;)
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If rangers and paladins using wands is broken then nobody tell him about the use magic device skill.
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Verik and Rickmeister have it. Basically, this provides backup low-level out-of-combat healing, or a chance to pop back up the downed cleric without pouring a potion in his or her mouth.
Note that in Pathfinder Society play CLW wands are seen pretty often even at first level, because one can spend 2 Prestige Award (which often can be gained in the very first adventure) to pick up a 750-gp item from one's faction.
But, even in PFS play, there is still a trade-off for using PA for acquiring the CLW wand. It slows down your reaching the PA "on hand" needed for a Raise Dead, if/when you need it; there can be other things just as useful, if not more so, that can be bought at that 750 gp level; and that wand is only useful if there is someone in the party who can use it.
I would submit that my first level Fighter spending 2 PA to acquire a Masterwork Composite Darkwood Longbow (Str +3) is more broken.
CLW wand: 1d8+1 healing 50 times at 15 GP a pop
Str+3Bow: 1d8+3 damage (minimum) infinite times at 5 CP a shot
At 9th level:
CLW wand: gone or down to only a few charges left, healing will be barely noticeable per charge
Str+3Bow: Enchanted, still usable, doing more damage: 1d8+7 (minimum) per shot, up to 4 (5 with Haste) arrows per round.
For this specific character (Fighter 7/Cleric 1/Ranger 1):
+1 Seeking Composite Darkwood Longbow (Str +3)
Related feats/traits/class specials:
Hunter's Eye (Andoran, ignore penalty for 111-220 feet)
Point Blank Shot (+1 to hit & damage within 30')
Precise Shot (No penalty for shooting into melee)
Weapon Focus (+1 to hit)
Deadly Aim (trade to hit for x2 damage [-3/+6])
Weapon Specialization (+2 damage)
Point-Blank Master (Using longbow [in this case] does not provoke AoOs)
Rapid Shot (Full round action allows shooting an extra arrow, all shots at -2 to hit)
Manyshot (Full round action allows the first shot to use two arrows instead of one)
Improved Critical (Double threat range of weapon)
Weapon Training: Bows (+1 t o hit & damage)
Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Human): +2 to hit & damage)
As other abilities, his Cleric Domains are Travel & Liberation (broken, somewhat), and he has picked up a wand of Gravity Bow. Sure, he gets 3 orisons usable all day, and three whole level one spells, but, at this level, any effects from those are fairly minimal. Create Water, Detect Magic & Stabilize. Heh. Bless for one encounter, if it even covers the whole encounter, at the expense of his own attacks. Liberating Command is useful, since it can be done as an immediate action, but he only grants a +2 to the escape attempt, barely noticeable. And hios domain spell? Either Longstrider or Remove Fear. Extra movement for an archer? Not often useful. Remove Fear? It might be helpful, if the DCs weren't either already either laughable or unreachable...
However, his AC is only 25, usually, easy to hit (In one module, an enemy barely missed confirming a critical hit with a 4 on their to hit roll, literally one higher would have confirmed) so there are some trade-offs for his ranged effectiveness, there, too.
But I would put that bow as a much more effective long-term purchase at 730 GP, as compared to a 50 charge wand of CLW for 750 GP...
@Norm Roth: I multiclassed a trident-throwing fighter into wizard for one level, mainly for roleplaying purposes, and bought a Wand of Magic Missiles for those opponents I just couldn't stick holes into effectively. It turned out the exact opponents I could not shish-kebab also had enough SR to render my investment in an arcane popgun useless. Oh, well.
Get acid arrow next time.
@Norm Roth: I multiclassed a trident-throwing fighter into wizard for one level, mainly for roleplaying purposes, and bought a Wand of Magic Missiles for those opponents I just couldn't stick holes into effectively. It turned out the exact opponents I could not shish-kebab also had enough SR to render my investment in an arcane popgun useless. Oh, well.Get acid arrow next time.
Actually, keep both a wand of acid arrow and a wand of magic missiles (CL 5) handy. Magic missiles are still useful against incorporeal foes. Also, make sure you prepare true strike, since you can cast it without a chance of failure in armor (no somatic component); sorcerer may have been a better choice for a level dip, though (depending on your character's Cha score).
