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I'm kind of fascinated with how many different interpretations people have of the various alignments. I'd love to hear what folks think the various alignments should be like.
What does alignment mean to you?
The rules ->
My Thoughts
An orphanage is burning down...
LG - Try your best to put out the fire, work with authorities to try and capture the villain who did this and bring him to justice.
LN - Inform the authorities immediately so you can minimize damage to the community. You are likely concerned that someone who disrespects other people's property is on the lose and will work with authorities to track him down if it doesn't cost you too much time or money.
LE - If the person responsible is working counter to your plans you will use the system as much as possible to stop or imprison them. If it furthers your plans or increases your influence in the community you might have done this yourself. (Mafia)
NG - You try your best to assist and try and ensure the perpetrators will not do this again. Whether local law enforcement is involved or not doesn't matter to you, you are most interested in preventing the orphan killers from continuing their heinous acts.
N - Will help if there is little or no risk to themselves. Will not get involved otherwise unless there is a tangible reward.
NE - You stick around to watch the carnage. If you were paid well you might have started the fire yourself. You look for an angle to profit from the event and if asked to capturing or kill the arson you are likely to accept the money but if you find the arson are just as likely to take a bribe and implicate someone else.
CG - You try your best help put out the fire. You don't trust the authorities will resolve the issue and take it upon yourself to bring the arson to your own personal justice.
CN - You view this as a clear sign that the system has failed. It's unlikely you started the fire unless you see it as a way of acting out against the system. It's much more likely you would burn down a government building when people are not in it.
CE - You revel in the chaos that this has created. It's entirely possible that you started the fire either for money or because of some real or imagined slight against you. Given enough money you will act like you are searching for the arson but are more likely to simply implicate someone else you don't like.
I'm kind of fascinated with how many different interpretations people have of the various alignments. I'd love to hear what folks think the various alignments should be like.
What does alignment mean to you?
Yay! ANOTHER ONE!
R.D.'s Thoughts
LG - A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished. Lawful good combines honor with compassion.
NG - A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them. Neutral good means doing what is good and right without bias for or against order.
CG - A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society. Chaotic good combines a good heart with a free spirit.
LN - A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government. Lawful neutral means you are reliable and honorable without being a zealot.
N - A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn't feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos (and thus neutral is sometimes called “true neutral”). Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character probably thinks of good as better than evil—after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she's not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way. Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run. Neutral means you act naturally in any situation, without prejudice or compulsion.
CN - A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those others suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as he is to cross it. Chaotic neutral represents freedom from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal.
LE - A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order, but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion. He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises. This reluctance comes partly from his nature and partly because he depends on order to protect himself from those who oppose him on moral grounds. Some lawful evil villains have particular taboos, such as not killing in cold blood (but having underlings do it) or not letting children come to harm (if it can be helped). They imagine that these compunctions put them above unprincipled villains. Some lawful evil people and creatures commit themselves to evil with a zeal like that of a crusader committed to good. Beyond being willing to hurt others for their own ends, they take pleasure in spreading evil as an end unto itself. They may also see doing evil as part of a duty to an evil deity or master. Lawful evil represents methodical, intentional, and organized evil.
NE - A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusions that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn't have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has. Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies. Neutral evil represents pure evil without honor and without variation.
CE - A chaotic evil character does what his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are likely to be poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him. Chaotic evil represents the destruction not only of beauty and life, but also of the order on which beauty and life depend.
For me:
chaotic people make decisions based on their emotions
lawful people make decisions based on their logic
good people try to be selfless
evil people are selfish
This doesn't preclude smart chaotic people, or dumb lawful people, but it means that the alignments are blurred. An avowed gambling cheat could be evil, but they aren't going the kill anyone, and don't deserve to be smited, etc.
P.S. I know this isn't the standard meaning, its just the interpretation I use.
P.S. I know this isn't the standard meaning, its just the interpretation I use.I don't think anyone really uses the standard meanings.
I have some Dos Exes (or however you spell it) someone gave me. Never tried it.I think it means I'm one X away from bein a porno
or old liquor
I spell it "XX" myself.
OK, OK, it's "Dos Equis" - it says so right there on the label...
Actually just wrote up a document regarding alignments for my House Rules, so...I'll just copy/paste it.
Alignment is one of the more ticklish subjects of Pathfinder, and each person views it slightly differently. To help keep expectations in order, I am going to go over my view of how alignment works and what each alignment is, as well as how I am going to handle alignments.Lawful – A lawful character is one who has a rigid code they follow, whether it is a personal code or the code of an organization. A lawful character is unwilling to stray from this code under any but the most extreme of circumstances, and even then they are troubled by having to abandon it. This is not to say a lawful character is inflexible, merely that they have chosen a path, regardless of how difficult it might be to follow.
Chaotic – A chaotic character is one who values the freedom of choice. Chaotic characters often take the path that works at the time rather than simply behaving randomly, though that is possible. While this gives them more freedom in some ways, the nature of the character often makes them seem unreliable or uncommitted to others. This does not mean that a chaotic character can’t have a code or major goal they are devoted to, merely that in some ways they are not as committed as a lawful character.
Good – A good character is one who tries to do what is right. They value civilization and the rights of sentient individuals and try to make certain these values are upheld. Some extremists are true pacifists and even vegetarians, but such is not required to be good. Good characters are often idealists of some form, trying to make the world a better place, though grizzled, bitter veterans sometimes are among the best of good characters, for they know just how bad the world can be and work in spite of it.
Evil – An evil character is dark and cares little for others. Evil characters are selfish most of the time, focusing on furthering their own ends regardless of the cost to others. Many evil characters do not view themselves as evil, but some do not care. Evil characters run the gamut from sociopathic killers to honorable but harsh black knights. But just because a character is evil does not mean that he cannot interact peaceably with society or even make it better, merely that his motives are not for the better good.
Neutral – A neutral character is one who cannot decide. This is not the alignment which meets between the law vs. chaos or good vs. evil axis, but true neutral in between all of them. A truly neutral character often lacks the conviction to pick a side, and it is virtually impossible to maintain such a state when one regularly interacts with sentient beings. As such, most neutral characters are hermits or individuals who live in privacy.Now, as to how I will handle alignments. This is another ticklish subject, as many people do not know what to expect. But, putting this as simply as I can, I want a character’s alignment to reflect their overall attitude about the world. I don’t expect every action to reflect their chosen alignment perfectly, but extreme opposite actions are going to catch my notice, and if such actions happen often I will require the characters alignment to be changed. If you have questions, please ask.
My personal view. *shrugs*
For me:
chaotic people make decisions based on their emotions
lawful people make decisions based on their logic
good people try to be selfless
evil people are selfishThis doesn't preclude smart chaotic people, or dumb lawful people, but it means that the alignments are blurred. An avowed gambling cheat could be evil, but they aren't going the kill anyone, and don't deserve to be smited, etc.
P.S. I know this isn't the standard meaning, its just the interpretation I use.
+1. this is as narrow as it should get. the more you define the alignments, the more you stereotype the characters.
grey areas and interpretations are good for role playing. the important thing i think is that each group and the GM should make sure that they are on the same page for a given game.
I've always wondered that myself, you see X and XXX but never just XX. What's up with that?
I know you said to be brief But I found this Online many Years ago and have used it in my Games for a while. I have sited the person that originally Posted this
THOUGHTS ON ALIGNMENTS
By
Steven Wright
<amadeus@uniserve.com>
Hi everybody,
So far a lot of discussion has been going on focusing on alignments, so
I decided to post something my players and I put together. We drew on from parts of alignments from Palladium books and things we could come up with ourselves. Essentially what it is the code that the various alignments play in everyday life. As always not everyone is always good or always evil so some variation is allowed.
LAWFUL GOOD characters will
1. Always keep their word
2. Avoid lies (unless absolutely necessary)
3. Never kill or attack an unarmed foe
4. Never harm an innocent
5. Never torture for any reason
6. Never kill for" pleasure; will always attempt to bring the villain to Justice
7. Always help others
8. Work well in a group
9. Respect authority, law, self-discipline, and honor
10. Never betrays a friend
11. Never break the law unless conditions are desperate. This means no breaking and entering, theft, torture, unprovoked assaults, etc.
LAWFUL EVIL characters will
1. Always keep his word of honor (he is honorable)
2. Lie to and cheat to those not worthy of his respect
3. May or may not kill an unarmed foe
4. Not kill (may harm, kidnap) an innocent, particularly children
5. Never kills for pleasure
6. Not resort to inhumane treatment of prisoners, but torture, although Distasteful, is a necessary means of extracting information
7. Never torture for pleasure
8. May or may not help someone in need
9. Work with others to attain his goals
10. Respects honor and self-discipline
11. Never betray a friend
LAWFUL NEUTRAL characters will
1. Always keep his word
2. Avoid lies
3. Not kill an unarmed foe (unless under orders to do so)
4. Not kill or harm an innocent (unless under orders to do so)
5. Only help those in need if the law or contract provides he must do so
6. Never kill for pleasure
7. Never use torture (unless under orders to do so)
8. Works well in a group
9. Respects authority, law, self-discipline and honor (whether benevolent or Tyrannical)
10. Never betrays a friend (unless in a situation-on where the law would come first)
11. NEVER breaks the law even when conditions are desperate (unless under orders to do so by a superior)
NEUTRAL GOOD characters will:
1. Keep his word to any other good person
2. Lie only to people of evil alignments
3. Never attack or kill an unarmed foe
4. -Never harm an innocent
5. Never use torture
6. - Never kill for pleasure
7. Always help others
8. Work well in a group
9. Bend and, occasionally, break the law when deemed necessary
10. Has no deference to law
11. Never betray a friend
NEUTRAL EVIL characters will:
1. Not necessarily keep his word to anyone
2. Lie and cheat anyone; good or evil
3. Most definitely attack an unarmed foe (those are the best kind)
4. Use or harm an innocent
5. Use torture for extracting information and pleasure
6. May kill for sheer pleasure
7. Feels no compulsion to help without some sort of tangible reward
8. Work with others if it will help him attain his personal goal
9. Kill an unarmed foe as readily as he would a potential threat or competitor
10. Has no deference to laws or authority, but will work within the law if he
1. must
11. Will betray a friend if it serves his needs
TRUE NEUTRAL characters will:
1. May keep his word (depending on how it will affect the balance)
2. May or may not lie to anyone (depending on how it will affect the balance)
3. May or may not kill. Or attack an unarmed foe
4. Never kill or attack an innocent
5. May or may not torture. (Never for pleasure)
6. Often help others, especially if helping the underdog to maintain
balance
7. Never kill for pleasure
8. Sometimes work in a group (depending on who needs the characters help)
9. Have no deference to law, authority and the strictures laid out by
them
10. Will break the law when necessary
11. Never intentionally betray a friend, unless balance will be maintained by doing so
CHAOTIC GOOD characters will:
1. Keep his word to any other good persons
2. Lie only to people of neutral and evil alignments
3. Never attack or kill an unarmed foe
4. Never harm an innocent
5. Never torture for pleasure, but may use muscle to extract information from criminals or evil characters
6. Never kill for pleasure
7. Always help others
8. Attempt to work within the law whenever possible
9. Bend and, occasionally, break the law when deemed necessary. This
means they may use strong-arm tactics, harass, break and enter, theft, and so on
10. Distrust authority
11. Work with groups, but dislike confining laws and bureaucracy
12. Never betrays a friend
CHAOTIC EVIL characters will:
1. Rarely keep his word (and has no honor)
2. Lie to and cheat anyone
3. Most certainly attack and kill an unarmed foe
4. Uses, hurts and kills an innocent without a second thought or for pleasure
5. Use torture for pleasure and information
6. Kill for sheer pleasure
7. Likely to help someone only to kill or rob them
8. Not work well within a group (consistently disregarding orders to
do as he pleases)
9. Despise honor, authority, and self-discipline
10. Associate mostly with other evil alignment
11. Betray friends (after all, you can always find friends)
CHAOTIC NEUTRAL characters will:
Chaotic neutral characters are so unpredictable that they can essentially bring on aspects of any alignment. For playing it is easiest to choose a particular alignment for the game session or points from various ones and noting it on a piece of paper.
One thing I think is important is to realise that one's own needs are important no matter what alignment you are. Your alignment should dictate how you relate to or consider other people's needs.
I consider good-evil to be a 'primary' axis of morals (what you want to achieve) and law-chaos to be a secondary axis of ethics (how to achieve).
I think evil people are selfish - their own desires are all that's important. Good people are selfless - everyone's desires matter (although theirs are also included).
Lawful people think their moral goals (good vs evil) will be satisfied best via some method of social contract. Chaotic people think the best way to achieve their goal is through using their unfettered free will.
"Morally Flavored" Neutral is ok on this scheme - neutral good think laws have their uses although it is ok to break a bad law. Neutral evil believe that their needs are met best in the long term by sometimes adhering to law and accepting restrictions on their free will.
"Ethically Flavored" neutral is ok too - law and order is elevated to a moral goal or alternatively freedom is seen as the be all and end all of morality, irrespective of whether other people are helped or harmed.
True neutral (as always) is the hardest. I think it means that other people matter, but that it isnt your responsibility to help them. In other words, serve your own needs provided they dont actively harm others. Similarly it means other people's freedom is unimportant as is the existence or otherwise of law and order.
What does alignment mean to you?
To me, the two alignment axes are defined by what a character's goals are (Good vs. Evil) and how they try and attain them (Law vs. Chaos).
Good characters choose actions that benefit others over themselves (or in addition to themselves).
Evil characters choose actions that benefit themselves over others (or in addition to others).
Lawful characters prefer to work collectively, as part of a structured social system.
Chaotic characters prefer to work individually, without interference from a strict social order.
EDIT: And I really wish I'd read Steve Geddes post above before posting my own, it seems we think alike.
Orphanage burning down:
There are more than 9 rows. That's intentional. Each alignment allows a broad spectrum of behaviour, the "strength" of each alignment component plays a role, as does whether they're passive or active in their alignment. Finally, there's far more to a character's behaviour than two little letters on the character sheet.
EDIT: And I really wish I'd read Steve Geddes post above before posting my own, it seems we think alike.
I thought the same as I read your post. I'd be interested to hear what you think true neutral entails? That's always the hardest and the one I change my mind on the most.
EDIT: And I really wish I'd read Steve Geddes post above before posting my own, it seems we think alike.I thought the same as I read your post. I'd be interested to hear what you think true neutral entails? That's always the hardest and the one I change my mind on the most.
Pragmatism. I'd say a TN character would try and balance the extremes of the other alignments in as practical a way as possible. They'd help others so long as it wasn't at too great a cost to themselves. At the same time, they'd be willing, when things are bad enough, to simply act in their own self interest. They'd work willingly with a group, but would be just as fine working alone if the situation warranted it.
PS: One last comment- I think 2nd ed introduced CN as the 'crazy' alignment.. and I dislike that as I don't think that to be the case. It can be the case, but it does not have to be that. Crazy is separate from alignment.
Agreed. I'm not sure exactly when it crept in, but somewhere along the line during 2nd edition even the designers seemed to decide that being chaotic meant acting randomly or without thought. (Or at least, that's the way it started to seem from the write-ups for chaotic NPCs, races, and outsiders).
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EDIT: And I really wish I'd read Steve Geddes post above before posting my own, it seems we think alike.I thought the same as I read your post. I'd be interested to hear what you think true neutral entails? That's always the hardest and the one I change my mind on the most.
I know you didn't ask me but...
TN IMO is simple self interest. They don't go out of their way to harm others but they also tend to look the other way when things go wrong. They generally respect the laws but ignore them if it's convenient.I like the simple two and axis concept you and Brodiggan Gale talk about.
First there are not only 9 people in the world. So alignments are broad strokes rather than a fine pen... when people write down an example of an alignment it is normally an extreme of that alignment (which is why neutral can be so difficult).
Sure, there are many people for example that might straddle two alignments. You might be able to plot alignment on two dimensional grid with "true neutral" being the big area in the middle.
My feeling is most people are likely closer to true neutral than any of the four corners.
I know you said to be brief But I found this Online many Years ago and have used it in my Games for a while. I have sited the person that originally Posted this
THOUGHTS ON ALIGNMENTS
By
Steven Wright
<amadeus@uniserve.com>
Hi everybody,
So far a lot of discussion has been going on focusing on alignments, so
I decided to post something my players and I put together. We drew on from parts of alignments from Palladium books and things we could come up with ourselves. Essentially what it is the code that the various alignments play in everyday life. As always not everyone is always good or always evil so some variation is allowed........
Not ripping on the guy who posted it but it's ironic that someone made the chart for D&D since Seimbeida doesn't believe in "Neutral"... just good, evil and selfish. :-p
Not ripping on the guy who posted it but it's ironic that someone made the chart for D&D since Seimbeida doesn't believe in "Neutral"... just good, evil and selfish. :-p
None Taken I thought the Same thing when I first saw it but It helps me Provide a Guild line to what I expect from My Players and That works in my Game it give just a little leeway to each that no two Players AL is quite the same but just close enough to create role play opportunities in the Game when their Ideals Collide :)