Game Challenges and Invalid Solutions?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Yknaps the Lesserprechaun wrote:
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
I wonder if there's enough water to my constituency to be considered anything but a bottle of vinegar.
Are I your constituency boss?

a vote for Spanky is a vote for a turnip in every pot!


Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
Brian Bachman wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
I cleaned up some flamebait, some flaming, and so otherwise out-of-context derailing.
Many thanks. It was degenerating.

That's unpossible.

Everything evolves, like the evillutionist atheists say, not going towards entropy, like the Lord and physicists claim.
More unmature logic.

Typical: evolution or degeneration. Simple dualistic thinking. Here, play with this rubber band while I try to convince Byers to banhammer you. I think he can borrow one of those big railroad hammers from Jacobs...


Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
Yknaps the Lesserprechaun wrote:
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
I wonder if there's enough water to my constituency to be considered anything but a bottle of vinegar.
Are I your constituency boss?
a vote for Spanky is a vote for a turnip in every pot!

I like turnips. They're great for my bunyons.


Dr. Double Honors, Ph.D. wrote:
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
Brian Bachman wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
I cleaned up some flamebait, some flaming, and so otherwise out-of-context derailing.
Many thanks. It was degenerating.

That's unpossible.

Everything evolves, like the evillutionist atheists say, not going towards entropy, like the Lord and physicists claim.
More unmature logic.
Typical: evolution or degeneration. Simple dualistic thinking. Here, play with this rubber band while I try to convince Byers to banhammer you. I think he can borrow one of those big railroad hammers from Jacobs...

You should get right with the lord, before you go to dualing with me.


Kick his ass boss! KICK HIS ASS!!!!


Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
Dr. Double Honors, Ph.D. wrote:
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
Brian Bachman wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
I cleaned up some flamebait, some flaming, and so otherwise out-of-context derailing.
Many thanks. It was degenerating.

That's unpossible.

Everything evolves, like the evillutionist atheists say, not going towards entropy, like the Lord and physicists claim.
More unmature logic.
Typical: evolution or degeneration. Simple dualistic thinking. Here, play with this rubber band while I try to convince Byers to banhammer you. I think he can borrow one of those big railroad hammers from Jacobs...

You should get right with the lord, before you go to dualing with me.

The Lord said people who disagree with me best ready themselves for some smitin'!

Grand Lodge

It's a pity your smite got nerfed into uselessness.


I must be playing a different game than you.

Grand Lodge

If you're playing PF, you're right! :)


Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:

*crotchpalm*

you're unmature!

Thankfully, that wasn't my crotch. And that's not a socially acceptable way of checking for maturity.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Orthos wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Baldraka wrote:


But to address your counterpoint. Would you then feel it was appropriate to force a caster to go to said Deathlands of Yore if, in their approximation, they would rather go to the Frozen Tundra of Yawn and deal with something a little less tragically debilitating?

If characters are going to cross the Deathlands of Yore, it's probably because they've got good reason to be there.... perhaps to find the Library kept by the Owl Spirit of Knowledge.

If you're going to argue that "making" characters seek the Spirit Library or crossing the Deathlands to get there is a "railroad" then by definition every written adventure IS a railroad.

And I think that is the crux of the problem. If ANY situation in which the DM's response is "you need to go to X place to do that" is a railroad, it makes it very difficult to do just about any sort of campaign, especially the prewritten ones as Lazarx said.

If that's one's definition of "railroad", I'm curious how you play anything but sandbox games where the DM just says "okay guys, here's the map, where do you want to go".

Between you, me, and Bal, we've taken this thread as far as it can go. The various sides have been pretty much fully presented. And it's clear to me that the picture is a continumum. Bal sits at the extreme end of "Open Sandbox" let the players fly to the wind and it's the DM's job to catch up. He sees the published written adventure as the opposite end of the extreme where the constraint of player choices represents an unacceptable abridgement of player freedom, and that it's the DM's job to follow his players rather than make the players follow his arc.

I do think that there is a continumum between the extremes and that DM's who do the lion's share of the donkey work either way (although the sandbox means more of it has to be done on the fly) have the right to choose where she wants her particular campaign to sit. And players have the right to vote with thier feet.

I think the above statement pretty much encompasses the set of views expressed here. I don't think I can say any more to express my opinions and am content with the exchange we've had.

Grand Lodge

LazarX wrote:
DM's...have the right to choose where she wants her particular campaign to sit. And players have the right to vote with their feet...

I find this to be the bottom line of any game argument.


LazarX wrote:
Between you, me, and Bal, we've taken this thread as far as it can go.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
LazarX wrote:
DM's...have the right to choose where she wants her particular campaign to sit. And players have the right to vote with their feet...
I find this to be the bottom line of any game argument.

I would agree as well. The only part that we left out in that summary is the arbitrary nerfing of characters ability to force a particular challenge they could otherwise solve with simplicity.

I believe that was actually part of the initial conversation. Even in the most heavily documented adventures, without plenty of prewarning from the DM, I would feel VERY cheated for my utility wizard to be gimped of the power to solve a simple problem for the sake of 'party challenge.'

As has been said before, 'why bother playing a utility wizard?'

As to railroading, I must have misrepresented myself. I run total sandbox. My wife runs story driven. When I use the term railroading, I am talking about the practices I have encountered when I meet a DM has already written your part in the adventure and the only change you can make is to fail to live up to their script (which, of course, you don't have access to).

Published adventures obviously have a large place, as demonstrated by the sheer volume of people who are currently in X campaign. The first pathfinder game I played in was in the standard Pathfinder world setting. Some day I may stop running totally homebrew worlds and try a module. Until then, I will just fight against the tyranny of 'it is my world and if you don't have the powers you planned your progression for 20 levels to get, you should have picked different powers'


Baldraka wrote:

Until then, I will just fight against the tyranny....

APs are the enemy of Democracy! Nobody tell Cheney, he'll waterboard all of us!


Mynameisjake wrote:
Baldraka wrote:

Until then, I will just fight against the tyranny....

APs are the enemy of Democracy! Nobody tell Cheney, he'll waterboard all of us!

They also drown puppies.


And it seems this thread has completely derailed because of the leprechaun puppet.


really I thought it was gone long before that.


Cartigan wrote:
And it seems this thread has completely derailed because of the leprechaun puppet.

The boss actually used to be a wooden puppet, but then the Blue Fairy came along and made him a real leprechaun. I was there. I seen it.


Cartigan wrote:
And it seems this thread has completely derailed because of the leprechaun puppet.

I was following a statement through to its logical conclusion.

I never threw down the sandbox good/railroad bad gauntlet-of-whinge.
Blame that on the Gianttitp Peanuts character.


:: Sn igger::


Cartigan wrote:
And it seems this thread has completely derailed because of the leprechaun puppet.

Yeah it could have become something more but some people can't help but wreck things.


ArchLich wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
And it seems this thread has completely derailed because of the leprechaun puppet.
Yeah it could have become something more but some people can't help but wreck things.

I'm sorry, it's just I'm so logically unmature.

It can't be helped.

It's beyond my control.

Grand Lodge

D&D made him do it.


I believe I lost interest in interacting with the "discussion" long before the Leprechaun when I saw the tone of some of the arguers.

And now I believe I have lost comprehension of the thread as I'm not sure how many of the posts are being sarcastic or not.


Oh Woe! The horror! Cleaves another witch with nearby desert.

I think there isn't anything more to say at the moment.


*bump*


::Grind::


Work it.

Grand Lodge

Do it.


Make it.


Stop it!


Thanks for killing my thread, guys.


I swear I didn't do nuthin Boss. It was....um...uh...Miss Scarlet, in the Conservatory, with the Pistol. Yeah, that's it!


More than ever hour after hour work is never over.

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