Please add to this list or make corrections:
Slashing
Bludgeoning
Piercing
Precision
Fire
Cold
Electricity
Acid
Sonic
Force
Holy
Unholy?
Good, Evil, Law, Chaos (aligned weapons to pierce damage reduction)
Magic (as in magic weapons)
Divine (as in flame strike)
Ah yes, flame strike! Thanks for the reminder on that.
Jury's out on nonlethal at the moment, I have another thread that aims to answer that one.
I wouldn't be upset to find out that non-lethal was always a subset of bludgeoning. I can't think of a way to make those other damage types above "nonlethal"...
Still, if you don't change damage type when dealing nonlethal with a lethal weapon (at -4) then it's a quirky rule that I need to accommodate. :(
I would say that nonlethal is a type in party just because some creatures are immune to non-lethal. It is easier for me to think of it as a type that can be added to others.
Edit: There is also the energy that a vicious weapon deals, which is just mentioned as disruptive energy. E2: I guess it would fall into just being energy damage (just to give a type) that there isn't an immunity for or resistance to.
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The two big ones I see missing are:
Falling
Crushing (such as when something falls on your head)
Also, if you are counting Nonlethal as a type, I might suggest Nontyped as well. I mean, what type of damage is being done with Horrid Wilting, Disintegrate, or Vampiric Touch?
Lastly do you feel that the "Positive Energy" type that Channeling and Cure Light Wounds (to Undead) the same as the "Divine" damage that Flame Strike does? Similarly is "Unholy" listed above meant to include the damage done through Channel Negative Energy or Inflict Wounds?
Wouldn't falling be bludgeoning damage? I always played it that way, though I guess maybe it technically isn't.
Not to confuse things here, but you realize there is some oerlap into these so called damage types ?
precision damage is per definition also another type of damage.
non-lethal damage, like precision damage, should be another type usually physical, but some force spells and in some cases electricity might do this.
slashing, bludgeoning, piercing could be called physical damage.
not sure holy and unholy are actual damage types, if they are they arent needed in my opinion.
Divine, Positive and negative are though.
There is also untyped damage, something I try to avoid having alot off in my campaigns.
I think nonlethal damage is damage dealt by disruption of the nervous system. Most creatures that are immune to nonlethal damage have either no nervous system(skeleton, zombie, other undead) , or a decentralized nervous system(oozes, outsiders(?I can't, for the life of me, remember if they're immune to it, I don't have my book) plants). I think maybe the damage is dealt by the disruption, not the actual source. Extreme heat deals nonlethal damage, but fire deals fire damage. Same with cold. If you cut someone lightly in a bony spot with a lot of nerves, that could do it (or hit them with the flat of the blade). Paper cuts HURT, but I think wounds that superficial shouldn't even count because my players would abuse it (paper ninja, anyone?). So what I took two years to say is that I think that, while nonlethal can come from many different SOURCES, it is its own distinct type of damage. Thank you.
That is all nice and all that, but a creature immune to the source wouldnt get the damage still.
A non lethal fire?
-You are engulfed in non lethal flames for 17 non lethal fire damage'
-Huh?
A non lethal fire?
-You are engulfed in non lethal flames for 17 non lethal fire damage'
-Huh?
non-lethal "fire" damage would be environmental heat for example.
just like steam does "fire" damage.
Lasting mental
(for examples, see my recent posts)
Not to confuse things here, but you realize there is some oerlap into these so called damage types ?
I do realize this.
I would like an inclusive list of all types, overlapping or not, for implementation in my MapTool campaign file.
So yes, if you come across one that we've missed, definitely post back and let me know.
Damage types found in print. "?" means I can't find a printed instance or I am uncertain it counts as a type of damage instead of merely "untyped".
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Is it correct to presume that untyped damage ignores all damage resistance? Does the divine damage from flamestrike bypass DR/—?
Depending on how loose a definition of damage you want to go, this list could get pretty long.
The Core book sometimes refers to "Weapon" damage. That's covered by Piercing, Bludgeoning and Slashing, but you want overlap.
Would you want to add "Morale", "Competence" and "Enhancement" bonuses to damage? They are generally just the same type as whatever the existing damage is, but it's still there and typed.
To be really sure, you could load up your PDF copy of the Core rulebook and the Bestiary and do a search for "Damage". You get a bunch of combat examples and references to Damage Reduction, etc., but you would eventually get pretty much every type of damage.
Is it correct to presume that untyped damage ignores all damage resistance? Does the divine damage from flamestrike bypass DR/—?
Yes, because it's a spell dealing magic damage and DR only stops physical damage. Weapons, Claws, Tramples, Falling, Crushing, etc. are covered by DR, but the Flaming ability on a sword ignores it. So does Polar Ray. Ice Storm (if it's the spell I'm thinking of) is reduced by it, because there's Bludgeoning damage in there, though the Cold part ignores DR.
Edit:I somehow missed the first part of the question I quoted from you, Evil Lincoln. I would say, usually, yes, Untyped ignored DR. A Holy weapon deals 2d6 Untyped damage to a creature IF the creature happens to be evil and it would ignore DR. You could say that makes it "Good Damage", but it does not explicitly say so in the book. I just don't know for sure, because Untyped damage is basically the catch-all for weird stuff.
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I wouldn't be upset to find out that non-lethal was always a subset of bludgeoning. I can't think of a way to make those other damage types above "nonlethal"...
Nonlethal environmental cold and heat (and starvation / thirst) damage also could work.
Switching the current suffocation system over to one that uses nonlethal damage could be neat as well, and might 'feel' a little more dramatic than the 'all or nothing' approach of 'no effect for Con X2 rounds, then dead in three.'
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Well, there are lots of untyped damage that is implied, but not outright stated.
Is Flame Strike half "divine" damage or purely untyped?
Does Channel Positive Energy and Channel Negative Energy have a damage type? Is this the same type of energy that Cure & Inflict spells use (see Inflict Light Wounds for reference)?
Is the "holy (or unholy) fire" referenced in Destruction a damage type?
positive and negative energy are definitely damage types/sources. Also, you mentioned it before, but you left Force off the big list.
So, what I'd like is a list of all damage types that are relevant to how damage is taken by creatures and objects — even if they overlap.
Flame strike is a good example: the divine energy is not a specific damage type, it is however damage from a spell which means it ignores DR. I'm actually going to create a category called "Spell" to reflect this, because that's how the rules work.
Here's the new list, please continue to advise:
I've tried sorting these into categories based on their behavior as weapons and spells. If you have suggestions on how to revise the categories based on their behavior, I'd love to hear them. Basically, there are effects that respond to either "weapon" or "energy" categories, and the others are inferred. Please advise.
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So, what I'd like is a list of all damage types that are relevant to how damage is taken by creatures and objects — even if they overlap.
Flame strike is a good example: the divine energy is not a specific damage type, it is however damage from a spell which means it ignores DR. I'm actually going to create a category called "Spell" to reflect this, because that's how the rules work.
It's always bugged me that by RAW a spell always bypasses DR. I don't care when it comes to things like fireball, but I do when it comes to the bludgeoning damage from something like Meteor Swarm.
I know it may not be RAW, but AFAIC how damage is resisted depends solely on its type, not its source. To this end I treat physical damage types as being magic for bypassing /magic DR, but if a meteor swarm hit a zombie (who has 5/slashing DR) I would apply its DR.
DR, AFAIK, only applies to damage that has the type "Bludgeoning" "Piercing" or "Slashing".
It's always bugged me that by RAW... I know it may not be RAW... DR, AFAIK, ...
I quite enjoy houseruling, but my intention for this thread is to map the RAW. That way, GMs can be better informed for fashioning house rules such as yours!
Regarding the content of your post:
Do mages at lower levels usually rely on spells that do physical damage? Most lower-level spells do energy damage, which SD still believes should overcome DR.
Do mages at lower levels usually rely on spells that do physical damage? Most lower-level spells do energy damage, which SD still believes should overcome DR.
Ah I see now. Yeah, I can see that being a problem, but it's certainly rare enough.
It's always bugged me that by RAW a spell always bypasses DR. I don't care when it comes to things like fireball, but I do when it comes to the bludgeoning damage from something like Meteor Swarm.
I have to admit, I've been applying DR to all spell Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing thinking that I WAS following RAW. It seems to be true that by RAW spell damage ALWAYS ignores DR. I thought spells that dealt Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage were reduced by DR. Was that changed from 3.5 to PRPG?
It also begs the question, what does it really even mean to have other types of damage in spells if they cannot be reduced by DR? There is no such thing as Energy Resistance 10 (Slashing). Why not just make some of the damage Untyped like in Flamestrike? Or Force, like magic missile?
I'm thinking specifically of Icestorm, which deals both Cold and Bludgeoning damage. If DR does not work on this, logically it should be Cold and Force damage.
How would we add Smite to the list?
It ignores DR, which qualifies it for inclusion. I'm wondering though, should it be included as "Smite" or just an "Ignore DR" quality?
The Inquisitor's Smiting Judgement is less of a problem, because it actually qualifies as Magic and Alignment and Adamantine, which somehow still makes it a lot less useful.
Could this category include other Penetrating attacks, such as the Penetrating Strike fighter feat?
I think that the substance list is wrong. An individual might be hit with an adamantine weapon, but they'll never take x points of "adamantine damage". The rest of the categories can be applied directly via spell or elemental effect.
If you're going to consider the materials to beat DR, you'll need to break out each possible + of enhancement bonus, since they are necessary when handling sunder attacks on weapons: "An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck." And maybe include the "ghost touch" and "brilliant energy" properties, since they have a significant impact of what is and isn't affected by an item with them.
What about poison and disease?
If I could rename this thread retroactively it would be List of all Hit Point damage types.
I think that the substance list is wrong. An individual might be hit with an adamantine weapon, but they'll never take x points of "adamantine damage". The rest of the categories can be applied directly via spell or elemental effect.
If you're going to consider the materials to beat DR, you'll need to break out each possible + of enhancement bonus, since they are necessary when handling sunder attacks on weapons: "An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck." And maybe include the "ghost touch" and "brilliant energy" properties, since they have a significant impact of what is and isn't affected by an item with them.
What about poison and disease?
Well, this is a domain of discourse issue.
I'm focused on Hit Points right now, which means this is a list of all things you need to consider when dealing damage to a creature. Specifically, GM considerations. You hit a skeleton for 10 points of damage, what does the GM need to know? Cold damage? Bludgeoning Damage? Magic?
It could be that adamantine has no effect against a target with no DR or the wrong type. But it is still "adamantine damage", right?
Poison and disease are possibilities... when a creature is immune to poison or disease, does this reflect an automatic success on the save or simply an immunity to the damage? If it's the latter, then poison or disease are good candidates for my list. Otherwise, this falls more under the province of saving throws.
So you know, I'm working on coding an HP system that will account for resistance and DR (in MapTool), and that's what defines my discourse as limited to HP (so no ability damage, etc, just HP damage types).
Good point on the sunder... I'm gonna mull that over.
If you're going to consider the materials to beat DR, you'll need to break out each possible + of enhancement bonus, since they are necessary when handling sunder attacks on weapons: "An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck."
bittergeek - I believe you are quoting a 3.0 rule there. As far as I know, that is not the rule in Pathfinder, and I think the 3.5 reference is an error... but perhaps not. Hmm.
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I approve of this thread.
I think some of what you are listing here are damage attributes rather than damage types.
For example: A +2 cold iron longsword will bypass any of the following:
DR X/slashing
DR X/magic
DR X/cold iron
but will ultimately deal slashing type damage to the target.
"Magic" and "cold iron" are IMHO damage attributes but not damage types. You can't cook up a spell that deals "cold iron damage".
If you're going to consider the materials to beat DR, you'll need to break out each possible + of enhancement bonus, since they are necessary when handling sunder attacks on weapons: "An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck."bittergeek - I believe you are quoting a 3.0 rule there. As far as I know, that is not the rule in Pathfinder, and I think the 3.5 reference is an error... but perhaps not. Hmm.
Nope, it's right there on page 468. It's one of those rules that rarely come up and therefore nobody remembers.
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You can't cook up a spell that deals "cold iron damage".
Statements like this always lead to crazy new spell ideas, 'though, so I would not be surprised to see some 'fey-killer' spells inspired by this notion! (Or some lupine killers, that conjure up a storm of silvered crescent blades that go slicing through an area, as if Moon Knight had just done a flurry of throwing blades...)
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Nope, it's right there on page 468. It's one of those rules that rarely come up and therefore nobody remembers.If you're going to consider the materials to beat DR, you'll need to break out each possible + of enhancement bonus, since they are necessary when handling sunder attacks on weapons: "An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck."bittergeek - I believe you are quoting a 3.0 rule there. As far as I know, that is not the rule in Pathfinder, and I think the 3.5 reference is an error... but perhaps not. Hmm.
yeah, pf reverted to 3.0 on that rule.
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[Casts thread necromancy III]
So, hiya folks. Can someone point me to a up to date/current and definitive list of hit point affecting damage types???
Thanks in advance, OSW.
You did some good work here EL.
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Bumpitty-bump! C'mon folks, I really don't want to have to start a new thread with a crazy-catchy name..
Bam! More thread necromancy!
I came across the "scalding" damage type that is a result of being immersed in boiling water (found in the environmental rules section).
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yeah, pf reverted to 3.0 on that rule.Nope, it's right there on page 468. It's one of those rules that rarely come up and therefore nobody remembers.If you're going to consider the materials to beat DR, you'll need to break out each possible + of enhancement bonus, since they are necessary when handling sunder attacks on weapons: "An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck."bittergeek - I believe you are quoting a 3.0 rule there. As far as I know, that is not the rule in Pathfinder, and I think the 3.5 reference is an error... but perhaps not. Hmm.
Old thread, someone necroed it, but just to point out, this rule has been errataed out of PF.
Sixth printing no longer includes the must be as enhanced or better anymore to Sunder.
Note: For non-lethal energy damage, consider what happens if you use a Merciful, Flaming, +1 longsword....
I am not sure but I think Psychic or Mental Damage was not included
there's the eponymous metagaming 'pun' damage... like from the little candy dispenser, n'est Pez?
I am not sure but I think Psychic or Mental Damage was not included
Might have something to do with the fact this thread was created in 2010.