It looks like I might only have 3 PCs for the Kingmaker campaign that I want to start, and I generally do not like DM NPCs because if we are down one player that means I run two, even if one is just a meat shield.
What would you suggest for just 3 PCs? My thoughts are:
1) Paladin
2) Ranger/Rogue - heavy on Ranger
3) Arcanist
Core rules & APG only....
-- david
Papa.DRB
I'm running Kingmaker for three PCs now, but it looks like it will drop to two.
They started at lvl 3 due to previous adventures and having a wizard (played by a very clever player[my gm^^]) and two sorcerers, it has played out fine so far.
They did use Happs* a bit to help them out during exploration, but he didn't do much in their aid besides killing a random worg.
I'd let them play what they want, and rather adjust the adventure should it be necessary. If they feel they lack in certain aspects, they should be able to make up for it in others and play on their strengths.
If necessary they should have a large pool of NPCs after a while to help them out if needed. If you don't like running friendly NPCs in battle I'd let them do it instead.
He was threatened/persuaded to join their cause after being ambushed at Oleg's.
It looks like I might only have 3 PCs for the Kingmaker campaign that I want to start, and I generally do not like DM NPCs because if we are down one player that means I run two, even if one is just a meat shield.
What would you suggest for just 3 PCs? My thoughts are:
1) Paladin
2) Ranger/Rogue - heavy on Ranger
3) ArcanistCore rules & APG only....
-- david
Papa.DRB
Erastil (community + law) cleric who is a good archer, MC ranger a level or 2,fairly physical, N-good aligned
Druid with a bear, N-good aligned
Sorceror, celestial, lawful-N aligned
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I would recommend for a 3 man group:
Druid with a big cat or bear (something that can hold its own in combat)
Summoner with a combat Eidolon
Small Cavalier with a combat mount (such as a wolf)Your 3 man group suddenly turned into a 6 man death-squad.
our group is very close to this.
We are 3 pc.One human druid with a wolf
one half orc inquisitor of Erastil
one human Cavalier of the order of the Lion and sword scion (his horses is called wolf to, nasty beast !)
My 3man group (level 2 atm) ...
Gnome Bard
Half-Elf Sorceress (Elem-Air Bloodline)
Elf Ranger (Archery)
Doing fine as is after two sessions, I gave them 375g in minor magic/masterwork items when they started. Sorceress has a half-charged Wand of MM, Bard has half-charged wand of CLW, Ranger has a mw Greataxe.
I may or may not add a weapon and shield fighter NPC at some point.
Druid with an animal companion that can fight.
Sorcerer or Wizard
Rogue
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I think PFRPG (and pretty much any edition of D&D - even 4E) can be made to work with a less than optimal party. It's going to take a different approach than a fully stocked party but I don't think it's an overwhelming difficulty...unless you've got party members who thrive on being the weakest characters ever (like bookish mages who never take any combat related spells or pacifistic priests:)).
As long as the group understands their shortcomings and the DM allows some pre-game prep like finding a hireling or two things should work out.
I'm starting Stolen Lands this Friday and I've got three players.
1. Human cavalier
2. Human druid w/wolf companion
3. Human Inquisitor of (unknown as of yet)
The cav and inquisitor will be from the same faith (I'm putting some religious backing into the Swordlords expansion quest) and the druid has always wandered the edges of the Stolen Lands assisting the outlying farms from unnecessary predation (this is where he adopted the motherless wolf cub).
As a DM I had a few options:
1. Make the group 2nd level to give them a hp buffer (I always start out 1st level guys with max hp and with this level bump I could also give max at 2nd).
2. Since they've got a horse companion and a fighting animal companion there not too bad off in the combat area but they'll be magic light so I'm thinking of adding an apprentice who could not afford tuition at the Ordo Arcanum (School of Magic I use in most of my games) who will hire out for money.
3. Having the Swordlords send some (2-3) men-at-arms (Warrior 1) to protect their potential investment.
When running the games for the smaller groups I do take a serious look at morale issues when fighting intelligent humanoids. Alot of times that'll turn the tables to the parties advantage.
In short - a smaller group can be fun but scheduling issues are usually my bugaboo. With a larger group if a player can't make it the impact is far less so I have to rely on perhaps a more loose schedule so we can play when the stars and schedules align.
Later,
Greg Volz
We are going to start KM with two PCs playing at the same time. But we are three PCs in total, so posting in this thread is absolutely viable! A friend of mine and me are going to rotate being GM. Our small party will be:
?? male human druid (GM 1)
LG male dwarf or half-elf paladin
?? male human or half-elf ranger (GM 2)
So it will be either paladin and druid playing or paladin and ranger.
We will give each PC a level in a NPC class at the beginning and maybe some more as reward during the campaign. The druid will get an adept level, the paladin will get either an aristocrat or warrior level and the ranger either an expert or warrior level.
So still many questions to be answered, but are there any tips you might have for this combination of classes?
We will make extensive use of Hirelings: Into the Wild and the Leadership feat.
We typically play gestalt with only 3 characters. It has worked out nicely. It allows each character to be much more flexible and somewhat more powerful. And, with only 3 characters most of the time, we are gaining levels quicker than we normally would.
Cleric/Rogue of Erastil
cohort= bard/wizard
Ranger/Paladin of Erastil
cohort= fighter/summoner
Druid/Rogue-Shadowdancer
with some part time characters
Monk/Wizard(illusionist) - plays about 1/2 the times
Rogue/Sorcerer(fey) - plays about occasionally
1 xpc (player left for school)
Fighter/Barbarian
My group is currently running a three man kingmaker game and we are playing gestalt characters all ranger based. We have a ranger/oracle a ranger/ bard and a ranger/wizard. We have just completed the first book and the party does well mostly but is still challenged when they should be. I know this not a pfrpg supported option but the rule from unearthed arcana are easy enough to adapt (and open content, I believe) so they should be available on the d20 wiki for free.
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The great thing about Kingmaker's Adventure Path is that it should be named Corpsemaker Adventure Path. As a GM reading all this posts about how great everybody is doing on Olag's encounter with just 3 players makes me feel all warm inside. Its almost like getting a second present for christmas.
If you play KM as it should on 1st lvl, following all the Adventure Path rules and with just Core Book + APG with a 3 persons party your players are gonna die quick, real quick. The Green belt is a very dangerous place to be.
/spoiler
The random encounter tables have CRs from 1 to 6. And you usually roll at that table once or twice a day.
/spoiler
The only exception would be Dudemeister's suggestion. You turn 3 persons into six, smart setup.
Druid with a big cat or bear (something that can hold its own in combat)
Summoner with a combat Eidolon
Small Cavalier with a combat mount, such as a wolf
(i would add that with the first two you could roll a full caster for 3rd member with no problem)
You could also start everybody on second lvl or just add one or two npcs (which you said you dont want). I would recomend that you dont twink with the adventure to make it easier. The reason while everybody loves this adventure path is because its hard, its challenging and very well written. When your players finnaly succeed it will make their victory that much more sweet.
Also, just for you to read and have some fun:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/adventurePa th/kingmaker/kingmakerObituaries
I've got a two to three pc team that i'm dming right now. Small party groups have always been a problem due to where I live; hard to find people to game with.
I have got a few ways of dealing with this:
(1) increase pc level. Assuming regular 4 person adventure, increase pc level by number of pcs: 3 pcs = 2 levels, 2 pcs = 4 levels, 1 pc = 8 levels.
(1a) gestalt rules from unearthed arcana. combine this with option one and have gestalt character equal ecl +2.
(1b) advanced levels with templates. personal favorite is the shade template from Forgotten Realms CS. 3.x ecl was +4. PFRPG would be +2. The idea is increasing survivorbility; anything that grants fast healing should work well.
(2) DMPCs. I like spell buffers such as bards and sorcerers so that i don't have to change spells out. You said that this was not an option that you wanted to pursue so I will not elaborate further.
(3) Use old 2nd ed Dark Sun character trees rules. Your Pcs have multiple characters so that they can be traded out for appropriate encounters.
In my current campaign, I'm using option 1b with modifications so that they have fast healing right away but gain other benefits throughout the game. (Setting up a little old world vs. shadow plane proxy war).
Our group is playing Kingmaker with only 3 PCs, we have a
Half-Orc Sorcerer (abyssal bloodline)
Half-Elf Fighter
Human Paladin
and are not having any problems.
We are 2/3 of the way through book 1.
Our Kingmaker started with ONE character:
A Half elf Rogue.
A half Orc Monk joined in session two, and they went all the way to the fight with kressle. The Rogue was noticed reconnoitering and took an crit arrow to the throat.
Monk was able to skirt around and stablize her, but couldn't escape carrying her.
A Barbarian and a Wizard joined next session and "sprung them out".
I think, if you had a sneaky group, like a rogue and monk and a ranger, or a cleric of calistria (sneaky cleric type would be nice) you could pull it off with three if every one was real sneaky sneaky.
Or if you went with a caster heavy group.
Magus
Witch
Oracle heading for rage prophet OR Sorceror heading for dragon disciple.
Or maybe even:
Magus
Witch
Alchemist?
I'd like to see how that group did.
Restarted Kingmaker with one of the old players DMing. The Kingmaker group now consists of me, the current DM, and a old friend of mine who I don't get to game with often. We're likely to add another friend of mine who I haven't RPed with in more than a year. This down from a group of four players and another DM.
In the old group we had a sorceror, a monk, a ranger (me), and a cleric of life and death (not Pharasma so much as the concept, sun and moon worshipper and what not.) Played six or seven sessions, explored maybe a quarter of the area for book one, killed Kressle and Happs plus maybe a dozen bandits, allied with sootscales, and killed a handful of mites.
New group is cavalier and ranger (me again), the likely add will most likely run a barbarian or fighter. In one session me and the cavalier have explored a third of the area for book one, killed Happs but recruited his bandits as well as Kressle and her bandits (amazing how effective a lance or arrow to the face is for keeping them reformed), allied with sootscales, holding off on mites but looking to clease the temple of the elk, have secured the Stag Lords alcohol which I fully intend to pump full of arsenic prior to delivery, and recovered the fangberries. Party Motto "We get stuff done!"
Im running a 3 PC game as well:
1) Human Fighter (Two-Handed Archetype)
2) Human Conjurer Wizard
3) Human Oracle of Life
They've literally been ripping through the AP. They "persuaded" Happs to join them and have Akiros helping them out too now. So, all of a sudden, i have a party of 5...and theyre STILL trying to recruit EVERYTHING they can! lol
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I will be running a Kingmaker campaign shortly with 3 players.
1)Fighter
2)Ranger (Bow)
3)Cleric
All the players are experienced gamers but relatively new to Pathfinder though they have all played a few society games before so I think they will be able to adapt to a 3 member party easily.
With all the NPC's available I don't think I will have to adjust any encounters. I will throw in the odd item or two to help them along initialy though.
My party started out with 4 and has dropped to 3 with a player dropping out. I said they can bring a NPC 4th and right now they don't want one and think they are handling things just fine. They just finished exploring Village of Varnhold in AP#3. They consist of:
Elf Wizard lvl-7
Magus (Bladebound) lvl-8
Cavalier (Beast rider) lvl-8, with Jhod lvl-6 cleric cohort
The thing that's odd about this is whenever the Cavalier levels he has to level 4 things, himself, his mount, Jhod, and Jhod animal companion.
We have a monk half-fiend as Dutchess, a druid, and a bard. It's worked out pretty well. Occasionally they bring along a couple "red shirts" for backup. Between the bard, the druid and magic items, we've got healing covered pretty well. The monk and the druid take the lead in combat.