A shambling mound rests in a pond with his tentacle-like arms rolled around nearby rotten trees.
Considering it has a strenght of 21 and has a large size and wants to throw a tree, how would you rule such an action?
I'm guessing:
Ranged touch attack at -4 with a 10ft range.
I'm thinking about using the creature's base damage for simplicity's sake but not quite sure yet.
How would you rule it?
A shambling mound rests in a pond with his tentacle-like arms rolled around nearby rotten trees.
Considering it has a strenght of 21 and has a large size and wants to throw a tree, how would you rule such an action?
I'm guessing:
Ranged touch attack at -4 with a 10ft range.
I'm thinking about using the creature's base damage for simplicity's sake but not quite sure yet.How would you rule it?
yep
I would treat it as a large-sized improvised weapon using club stats as a base (the closest weapon I can find to a thrown tree).
That means it will have -4 to hit, deal 1d8+Str damage, have a x2 crit, and a 10 ft. range increment.
If you want, you can up the size again from large to huge (from a small tree to a medium tree) and have it deal 2d6 base damage with a -6 to hit (for being improperly sized to the character). This will make it into a two-tentacled weapon rather than a one-tentacled weapon though.
a standard club weighs a fraction of that i would put it at something like 1d6 per 20 or 50lbs, massive damage is massive damage you shouldn't underplay it.
In a recent game I was in my character with Throw Anything found himself in a rocky field. Deciding to throw large (150lb) rocks at things I couldn't find any rules on damage by weight. By the end of searching we ended up deciding to use the closest example, telekinesis which lists damage as 1d6 per 25 lbs.
If I were a shambling mound resting in a pond, I'd forget the stinking trees; figure my designer gave me improved grapple, and pull the suckers into the pond with me...
You know Moonstone, too? :D
You could also treat this as an area-effect attack similar to alchemist's fire. Anyone in the primary square gets hit for damage, say equal to its normal attack, anyone in an adjacent square gets hit for 1/2 damage. Maybe allow a Reflex save (10 + 1/2 HD of shambler + shambler's Con or Str stat for variety) for 1/2? I'm envisioning some truly large logs for this though. Maybe damage as a deadfall trap?
I would treat it as a large-sized improvised weapon using club stats as a base (the closest weapon I can find to a thrown tree).Uh, no. A standard club is, what, three feet for medium character, so it's small... for a large tree, it'd be a huge weapon... I'd go with a huge greatclub, even.
Alternatively you could go by the 1d6 per 200 pounds rule.
+1 (though I wouldn't go with greatclub, they can't be thrown)
And here's a handy calculator for log weight: Log Weight Calculator.
For example, a 12"-diameter, 10 ft. bald cypress log weighs about 363 lbs.
As for the attack roll, if you want to be mean, you could treat it as a siege engine and make it ranged touch, or you could treat it as an improvised weapon and use standard AC. Your call.
Personally, I wouldn't go with the siege engine rules, that opens a whole can of worms.
If you go with the improvised thrown weapon selection, remember that it has a range increment of 10 feet and thrown weapons have a max range of 5 increments (50 ft.) at a penalty of -8.
As for how heavy of a log it would be able to throw, that's a tough one. Going with the heaviest of the thrown objects (spear and net are both 6 lbs.), I'd go with roughly 1/20th maximum capacity. That means that an average strength human (Str 10, max capacity 100) could throw a 5lb rock up to 50 ft.
So, for the shambling mound, who can lift a maximum load of 920, I'd say that still limits him to about a 45 lb. object - about the size of a 6" diameter, 5 ft log - still rather impressive, though very unwieldy, and he's looking at a penalty from -4 (at less than 10 ft.) to -12 (at distances of 40-50 ft.).
As for damage, you could go by falling object rules: if it can be thrown 50 ft., you should take 1d6 per 200 lb. x 1/4 (45 is about 1/4 of 200) which means 5/4 x 1d6 - say 1d8.
Or you could go by weapon size rules - in which case a club (1d6) moves up to a large club (1d8). Either way it's 1d8 :)
Before saying "what the heck, it's a LOG" remember a crit would result in 2d8+10 damage, easily enough to kill any normal human even with minimum damage.
I would treat it as a large-sized improvised weapon using club stats as a base (the closest weapon I can find to a thrown tree).Uh, no. A standard club is, what, three feet for medium character, so it's small... for a large tree, it'd be a huge weapon... I'd go with a huge greatclub, even.
Alternatively you could go by the 1d6 per 200 pounds rule.
+1 (though I wouldn't go with greatclub, they can't be thrown)
And here's a handy calculator for log weight: Log Weight Calculator.
For example, a 12"-diameter, 10 ft. bald cypress log weighs about 363 lbs.
As for the attack roll, if you want to be mean, you could treat it as a siege engine and make it ranged touch, or you could treat it as an improvised weapon and use standard AC. Your call.
Personally, I wouldn't go with the siege engine rules, that opens a whole can of worms.
If you go with the improvised thrown weapon selection, remember that it has a range increment of 10 feet and thrown weapons have a max range of 5 increments (50 ft.) at a penalty of -8.
As for how heavy of a log it would be able to throw, that's a tough one. Going with the heaviest of the thrown objects (spear and net are both 6 lbs.), I'd go with roughly 1/20th maximum capacity. That means that an average strength human (Str 10, max capacity 100) could throw a 5lb rock up to 50 ft.
So, for the shambling mound, who can lift a maximum load of 920, I'd say that still limits him to about a 45 lb. object - about the size of a 6" diameter, 5 ft log - still rather impressive, though very unwieldy, and he's looking at a penalty from -4 (at less than 10 ft.) to -12 (at distances of 40-50 ft.).
As for damage, you could go by falling object rules: if it can be thrown 50 ft., you should take 1d6 per 200 lb. x 1/4 (45 is about 1/4 of 200) which means 5/4 x 1d6 - say 1d8.
Or you could go by weapon size rules - in which case a club (1d6) moves up to a...
Just going to to point out that mens high school shot puts weigh 12 lbs and they often hit 40-50 feet. The world record is 75. The Highland Games has an event with a 20-26 lb stone, and a 50+ lb stone, though wikipedia doesn't have their scores. As for throwing trees, there is always the caber toss, the art of throwing telephone poles end over end.
Thanks for the input guys. I didn't except it to get so technical ;)
I actually used the caber rules from 3.0. Basically, hit an AC of 15 and the target needs a reflex save with DC = your attack roll.
Still hesitated on a bull rush or trip effect as dice were rolled but my player managed the save!
I thought the PCs would run..They were in pretty bad shape right from the start. Near TPK situation with someone unconscious one dice away from drowning in the pond. Good times!
Just going to to point out that mens high school shot puts weigh 12 lbs and they often hit 40-50 feet. The world record is 75. The Highland Games has an event with a 20-26 lb stone, and a 50+ lb stone, though wikipedia doesn't have their scores. As for throwing trees, there is always the caber toss, the art of throwing telephone poles end over end.
Very true .. but I doubt that people throwing a shot put have Str 10, which is the 'average strength' I referred to.
If we wanted a true simulation of a throw, then thrown weapons would have to have have a varying range based on the strength of the thrower and the actual weight of the weapon.
I have no need of such realism :)
Aw, I wanted to get into a model I've got that tells me carbon biomass based on the dbh of the log! So much for realism;)
Thanks for the input guys. I didn't except it to get so technical ;)
I actually used the caber rules from 3.0. Basically, hit an AC of 15 and the target needs a reflex save with DC = your attack roll.
Still hesitated on a bull rush or trip effect as dice were rolled but my player managed the save!I thought the PCs would run..They were in pretty bad shape right from the start. Near TPK situation with someone unconscious one dice away from drowning in the pond. Good times!
There are rules for caber tossing from 3.0?
I honestly, for once in my life, can think of nothing to say.
Hahah props to Caineach for putting the word Caber back in my brain.
It is a weapon found in Masters of the Wild.
Five Hundred years ago in a public house in Scotland
Hey! MacGregor! Ah bet ah cun drink a tankard o' whiskey und throw a big rock farther than yew cun.
Yew canna.
Ah cun.
Yew canna!
Ah cun!
Oh yeah? Wail, ah bet ah cun drink TWO tankards o' whiskey und throw a TREE farther than yew cun!
Yew canna.
Ah cun.
Yew canna!
Ah cun!
And the Highland Games were born.
You specifically said that your Shambling Mound was using dead trees, but on a slight tangent it's worth mentioning that Mythbusters recently did an episode where they tested whether or not a tree, still in the ground, could be used as a crude catapult. They found that it did work (badly), but only after they'd stripped the trunk of all it's leaves and branches.
In their first attempts with untrimmed trees the leaves and branches acted as air brakes, slowing the tree's movement. So if your monster were to rip a tree from the ground to throw, or even to use as a club, it would be unlikely to fly far or swing well.
Five Hundred years ago in a public house in Scotland
Hey! MacGregor! Ah bet ah cun drink a tankard o' whiskey und throw a big rock farther than yew cun.
Yew canna.
Ah cun.
Yew canna!
Ah cun!
Oh yeah? Wail, ah bet ah cun drink TWO tankards o' whiskey und throw a TREE farther than yew cun!
Yew canna.
Ah cun.
Yew canna!
Ah cun!
And the Highland Games were born.
BEST POST EVER!!!!