The Final Fantasy XIII thread and everyone discussing which were their favorites of the series left me wondering what elements keep people coming back.
-What would a Final Fantasy game have to be like to make you say, "Wow, this one is even better than my favorite!"
-What common elements do you like to see in a Final Fantasy game?
-What common elements do you think are a bad idea?
-Are there certain themes or elements without which the game does not feel like a "real" Final Fantasy game?
To answer my own questions:
My favorite FF was IX. To be better than that to me, a new game would need to feel very open with tons of sidequests to work on whenever you need a break from the tension of the main storyline.
I like to see fairly light-hearted scenes, in-jokes and character building that makes you feel like you actually like the characters and can relate to them.
I don't really like brooding protagonists who are too cool to ever use more than 2 or 3 words at a time.
I don't really like feeling railroaded, too much. I can still enjoy the game if the story is really compelling, but it just makes the game feel like a really long Prologue.
A FF doesn't feel like a "real" one unless it contains most of the following: Moogles, Chocobos, White Mages, Black Mages, Dragoons, Thieves who can steal extra treasure from monsters, Biggs & Wedge, familiar monsters like Imps and Mandragoras, Towns filled with interesting characters and sidequests, and finally, some kind of side-game like Tetra-Master or Blitzball (though I really didn't like blitzball that much, still I liked having the option to play it.)
Well, I dislike the "Enix" part of "Square Enix"; they've made it too arcady for my liking. The better graphics that came with the PS2 games resulted in lower-quality game play for me and made it less fun. The mini-games have seemed harder since then, too. It seems that there are a lot more random encounters than before, meaning more combat time = less game play/storyline. I think that FFX had an amazing storyline, ONCE IT GOT GOING, but it took waaaaaaaaay to long for the story to get good for me. (I did complete the game FFX.) It just feels more like a chore to complete the PS2 FF games.
Plus, I LIKE being able to fly round the planet!
I think I know what you mean. As they improve the graphics, the world seems to get smaller, in some ways. It would take too much time to do the art everywhere.
I'm enjoying XIII, but it almost feels like I'm just running down a very long hallway. A very pretty one, but still just a hallway.
I miss the, previously inevitable, part of the game where you get your airship and can just fly wherever.
VI, VII, and X.
My FF sacred cows...
1) Open ended level grinding.
2) Control all the characters in your group.
3) Some japanese-flavored silly dialogue and expressions.
Could do without....
1) Japanese fixation with Casinos
2) Forced mini-games (Blitzball in FFX, the one time you had to play a game win or lose to progress the story).
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A mostly medieval setting, whose anachronistic technology would be mostly clockwork. A good shot in the arm with unusual, fleshed out cultures is fine too.
An open world available for exploration earlier than halfway through the game.
A strong ensemble cast.
Being able to pick your entire party.
Having a party of four characters, minimum.
A tough female lead with an actual multidimensional personality that isn't a stuttering, shrinking violet.
A multifaceted male lead with a positive outlook on life that doesn't communicate mostly in ellipses.
Character designs that show some sense of restraint. No characters meant to be taken seriously dressed like clowns. Tetsuya Nomura is a no-no. Yoshitaka Amano, yes please.
Summons actually present as fleshed out characters.
Job system.
No forced card games.
Interruptable attack animations.
Some sense of restraint in those very same attack animations.
Soundtrack by Nobuo Uematsu.
Pirates.
Non-white/asian characters that aren't painful stereotypes.
Airships that look like boats.
Returning a sense of wonder to the series.
Ultros as a playable character.
Bring back a bunch of the old classic monsters.
Bring back the original Four Fiends.
Utilize the classic bass rythm in the battle music.
I rather liked FFXII, so for me, open world, lots of sidequests, and the gambit system (which takes the grind out of grinding) would be good. Multiple races as party members a plus.
I loved the Jobs system of FFT, as well as optional characters that would add to, but not be required by, the story.
Steampunk mixed with fantasy tech level.
Characters who dress in something other than belts and zippers - I'm looking at you, FFX.
Having played FFI, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, I must say that my all-time favourite of the series is FFVIII. Superdeformed characters is a liability that hurt the FFVII experience, FFVI (despite being generally praised by All) and FFIX felt rather cheap and cardboard in the characters, and especially the story. FFVIII reigns supreme due to many good reasons:
People are still speculating about the game today, more than a decade after the game's release. This is due to a more mature plot and more complex characters.
Even if said characters sometimes say only ....., there is growth and emotions involved, and they are not silly, such as moogles, big eater chef critters, yetis or cats riding moogle dolls.
The japanese love weird design critters, but to me they're just a cue to a bad aftertaste. Chocobos are acceptable.
However, the idea of voice characters is an iffy one. I heard the voice acting of Tidus from FFX, and got seriously discouraged from playing it.
So in short: The more grown-up and realistic, the better. FFVIII proved it could be done.
I-VI only. VII, VIII and upwards are emo/bishonen-overloaded tripe dressed up as adult storylines. IV, V and VI run rings around such anathema.
FF VI was my favorite and remains so to this day, mostly because of its storyline and the characters.
Also, world destroyed halfway through the game. That blew my mind as a teenager.
FF VI was my favorite and remains so to this day, mostly because of its storyline and the characters.
** spoiler omitted **
Well now, young'uns, I've been playin' these here Final Fantasy games since FF1 on the Nintendo through FFXII on the PS2. When ah get done Star Ocean, it's off to FFXIII. There are lots of good things in the series. Each one had something to contribute. To make a great Final Fantasy, you need several key things:
1) A well-developed world. Each area has to feel different, sound different, look different, and distract you in different ways.
2) Well thought-out storylines. The plot has to be believable though twists, turns, and intricacy are welcome.
3) Music. You're gonna be there for a while. You need music to set the mood of your travels. Nobuo's music was key to this.
4) Returning characters. Cid, Bahamut, Biggs & Wedge, moogles, chocobos, summoned monsters: they all have a place here. Airships too, of course.
5) Most important of all: innovation. We get that every time, and each one has to push boundaries in some way. In 2, we get to advance based on what we do. In 3, class system. And so on.
What Square Enix is starting to forget:
1) Each new FF has more and more beautiful graphics. The Paraminas Rift in 12 was my favorite spot in the game; the snowstorms were just that beautiful. But in the end, while the graphics have to be good, we're here for gameplay and a story, not art. I can find art elsewhere.
2) Gameplay. Shorter main storylines don't cut it. I want to know that I'll need 100 hours on my first playthrough to beat the game. Maybe next time I'll still need 100 hours, but I'll get lots of optional stuff done too.
The things I want to see most:
1) Characters that aren't stereotyped. I could stand to see more characters like, Celes Chere or Lulu and less like Selphie and Rikku. FF6 was great because many of the characters had their own personalities, at least in part. Operas and blowing up the world were other key factors;)
2) Airships that look truly fantastic. We need airships that are flying galleys, not flying oversized Harleys. But regardless, we need them and we need to be able to pilot them.
3) Innovative advancement systems. FF2 was neat but I had too much fun gaming the system early on by smacking my characters around repeatedly until they more or less marched through most of the game with nary a scratch. I liked how monsters in 8 had levels and gained powers as you gained levels. I loved the Sphere grid idea though on my game everyone learned every power eventually.
4) The sense of wonder. I want to be amazed at what I see. That doesn't mean it has to make my graphics card weep. It has to make ME weep.
5) A sense of drama. I have to really feel like the world is in danger. Make me despise the villain. I grew to loathe Kefka in ways that would probably get me in serious trouble with a shrink. Many of the later BBEGs, not so much.
6) Innovative combat. It can't be too crazy on the button-mashing, as many of us aren't getting any younger. But it has to be something I want to do over and over again, 'cause I'm gonna be doin' it for a while.
7) A diverse party. Let me have control over who I use and how I win my battles. Give me 6 people to control, or 8; heck, FF6 had Terra, Locke, Mog, Sabin, Edgar, Cyan, Gau, Celes, Strago, Shadow, Relm, Mog, Gogo, and Umaro. Everyone had value, even if only for giggles. And let me swap around in battle.
Overall, there should be humor, tragedy, adventure, and romance. Battle, triumph, friendship, and war. Wrongs to right. The FF games that have withstood the test of time have had all these and more. You need every element to make a great Final Fantasy. These are all present in the ones I enjoy the most, which are 4, 6, 7, and 10 (not in that order). And this is how this series will remain the greatest of video game RPGs, by always using the traditional tools in neat new ways.
Oh, and for me the best was X. Yes, we had some stereotypical characters. Combat too often consisted of bringing in the character designed to beat the specific kind of monster you were fighting. But it had one of the best romances of any RPG IMHO in Tidus and Yuna. Characters had unexpected depths (Wakka, Lulu). The story made me happy as I went from place to place, never knowing who was going to do what. Most of all, it had Lulu, which was more than enough to sell me on the game;) After that, 6 was my favorite, because nothing beats having to perform an opera, period. That, and Celes was a character I came to respect for her choices. FF4 sucked me in, I really wanted to smack around Kain a few times. FF7 had lots of innovation, though I didn't really like Clod,er, Cloud or Barrett.
My rule of thumb is that there has to be Cid, airships and chocobos in order for it to be a Final Fantasy game. Everything else is negotiable. :P
awesome
Pretty much have to agree on every point but the order of preference (for me it would be 6, 4, 5, 9, 7 as the top contenders in that order).
awesomePretty much have to agree on every point but the order of preference (for me it would be 6, 4, 5, 9, 7 as the top contenders in that order).
6, 4, and 5 are on the same pedestal for me. 7 and up are the grunting peasants whose only lot is to provide stable footing for these games provided they wish to descend from their height to mingle with their lessers, a la 300. Strangely enough, I have a soft spot in my heart for X-2...Something about that game intrigues me.
Final Fantasy Tactics is also beloved: the storyline blew me away, as did the combat system- I still want a genuine sequel. The FFTA series is accepted, if not necessarily cherished.
Final Fantasy Tactics is also beloved: the storyline blew me away, as did the combat system- I still want a genuine sequel. The FFTA series is accepted, if not necessarily cherished.
I have never been a fan of tactical combat games, so I couldn't get into FFT. The story was awesome, no doubt. But the mechanics were just too distracting.
Final Fantasy Tactics is also beloved: the storyline blew me away, as did the combat system- I still want a genuine sequel. The FFTA series is accepted, if not necessarily cherished.I have never been a fan of tactical combat games, so I couldn't get into FFT. The story was awesome, no doubt. But the mechanics were just too distracting.
The storyline was so complex, I actually had to read up on it recently to familiarize myself with some of the less-clear things that had been rattling around in my head for YEARS.
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As far as gameplay went, I think 10 has the best I've seen SO FAR. But I'm also a little partial to 8's draw system for some reason.
Story: 6, hands down. Though some of 7's cutscenes did make me cry.
Characters: I liked FF1's option of MAKING YOUR OWN. I know that won't happen now-a-days, but I liked it.
As much as I like FFVIII, I disagree with you about the junction/draw system. It's a crappy system designed for wasting your time. It's not so bad that you can't play the game, though. And it is a conceptually interesting system. =)
1 and 6 are my favorites. 1 because it felt/feels a lot like Basic Red Box D&D to me, VI because it had interesting characters and story.
I haven't been terribly interested in any of the more recent Final Fantasy titles. I have fun watching my wife play FF12 but it doesn't appeal to me enough to play it.