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I'm getting ready to run this one tomorrow and had a question for anyone familiar with it.
The cavern for the final encounter - is it the correct scale on the map? I'm guessing it's supposed to be a pretty big space considering the encounter.
Thanks for any help! I'm really looking forward to running this one at tier 10-11. It should be a ton of fun.
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I'm getting ready to run this one tomorrow and had a question for anyone familiar with it.
The cavern for the final encounter - is it the correct scale on the map? I'm guessing it's supposed to be a pretty big space considering the encounter.
Thanks for any help! I'm really looking forward to running this one at tier 10-11. It should be a ton of fun.
It's a great scenario. I ran the cavern to scale, and as long as you aren't overloaded for players, you should be fine. Have fun with the tavern brawl! I recommend starting the fire even if the random chance doesn't come up. It'll be that much more fun.
Also, I foolishly let slip that those killed in the ethereal jaunt against the primordial demon weren't really dead, and it made a difference in what the players were getting out of the fight. In other words, be a better GM than me!
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It's a great scenario. I ran the cavern to scale, and as long as you aren't overloaded for players, you should be fine.
I'm surprised the 5' scale worked for you. BBEG takes up 4 squares, there are supposed to be 3 clerics scattered about and the potential for another foe too. That is VERY tight quarters for an epic battle.
I can't wait to run the primordial demon encounter. My players will be shocked when they see what I've got in store for them in round one.
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It's a great scenario. I ran the cavern to scale, and as long as you aren't overloaded for players, you should be fine.I'm surprised the 5' scale worked for you. BBEG takes up 4 squares, there are supposed to be 3 clerics scattered about and the potential for another foe too. That is VERY tight quarters for an epic battle.
I can't wait to run the primordial demon encounter. My players will be shocked when they see what I've got in store for them in round one.
It got a little bottlenecked at the entrance, but the fighter bull rushed and the wizard flew and things opened up a bit. I may have widened the cavern on the back end a little bit. Also had the additional foe, if present, flying, to clear up floor space. I left dead clerics out.
It ended up being a little less epic than I had hoped, though, mostly because I rolled low and the PCs rolled high. Even maxing out the demon's HP only prolonged the inevitable for the group, unfortunately. Still, a very fun experience!
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I'm off to kill Doug Doug and Uncleden in Act 2 this morning. Wish me luck! ;-) There should be pictures to post later tonight.I would just like to state that the only PC Kyle killed tonight was his wife's... I was worried though. Me and my 11 AC.
This was Doug by the way. The computer was under a friend's log-in...
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This was Doug by the way. The computer was under a friend's log-in...I'm off to kill Doug Doug and Uncleden in Act 2 this morning. Wish me luck! ;-) There should be pictures to post later tonight.I would just like to state that the only PC Kyle killed tonight was his wife's... I was worried though. Me and my 11 AC.
Grr... stupid Freedom of Movement + Magic Circle vs. Evil + Cracked out Fighter type.
Doug Doug didn't die!?
Inconceivable.
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Doug Doug didn't die!?
Inconceivable.
Doug Doug has learned with luck as bad as his, 'support' characters are the safest bet. My cleric only took damage from two hits throughout the whole scenario because A) I always stand behind a better target, B) I don't look threatening, and C) I like to 'delay'.
Doug Doug has learned with luck as bad as his, 'support' characters are the safest bet. My cleric only took damage from two hits throughout the whole scenario because A) I always stand behind a better target, B) I don't look threatening, and C) I like to 'delay'.Doug Doug didn't die!?
Inconceivable.
I hope you play at one of my tables someday. I'll remedy those tactics real quick.
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I hope you play at one of my tables someday. I'll remedy those tactics real quick.Doug Doug has learned with luck as bad as his, 'support' characters are the safest bet. My cleric only took damage from two hits throughout the whole scenario because A) I always stand behind a better target, B) I don't look threatening, and C) I like to 'delay'.Doug Doug didn't die!?
Inconceivable.
With rainbows, unicorns, and teddy bears?
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With rainbows, unicorns, and teddy bears?I hope you play at one of my tables someday. I'll remedy those tactics real quick.Doug Doug has learned with luck as bad as his, 'support' characters are the safest bet. My cleric only took damage from two hits throughout the whole scenario because A) I always stand behind a better target, B) I don't look threatening, and C) I like to 'delay'.Doug Doug didn't die!?
Inconceivable.
Not to get you off the topic of killing PCs with rainbows here...hehe...
Our group just went through it yesterday, and we're a pretty darned optimized group, but between the demons' deeper darkness at will and the Succubus' compulsions, we even struggled, even with a couple of suppress compulsions, daylights and dispel magic, and I was just curious how you guys handled it!
Great mod by the way!
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Not to get you off the topic of killing PCs with rainbows here...hehe...Our group just went through it yesterday, and we're a pretty darned optimized group, but between the demons' deeper darkness at will and the Succubus' compulsions, we even struggled, even with a couple of suppress compulsions, daylights and dispel magic, and I was just curious how you guys handled it!
Great mod by the way!
Your optimized group is forgetting a best flavor of cheese in Pathfinder Society play, the Clear Spindle Ioun Stone in a Wayfinder. For a few thousand gold you become immune to mind-affecting effects.
This is the most overpowered item for the price in the game. It has the power to ruin many high level encounters. :(
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Not to get you off the topic of killing PCs with rainbows here...hehe...Our group just went through it yesterday, and we're a pretty darned optimized group, but between the demons' deeper darkness at will and the Succubus' compulsions, we even struggled, even with a couple of suppress compulsions, daylights and dispel magic, and I was just curious how you guys handled it!
Great mod by the way!
Your optimized group is forgetting a best flavor of cheese in Pathfinder Society play, the Clear Spindle Ioun Stone in a Wayfinder. For a few thousand gold you become immune to mind-affecting effects.
This is the most overpowered item for the price in the game. It has the power to ruin many high level encounters. :(
Fair enough...but what about the deeper darkness???
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Fair enough...but what about the deeper darkness???
Not to get you off the topic of killing PCs with rainbows here...hehe...Our group just went through it yesterday, and we're a pretty darned optimized group, but between the demons' deeper darkness at will and the Succubus' compulsions, we even struggled, even with a couple of suppress compulsions, daylights and dispel magic, and I was just curious how you guys handled it!
Great mod by the way!
Your optimized group is forgetting a best flavor of cheese in Pathfinder Society play, the Clear Spindle Ioun Stone in a Wayfinder. For a few thousand gold you become immune to mind-affecting effects.
This is the most overpowered item for the price in the game. It has the power to ruin many high level encounters. :(
Daylight. And they even killed the Primordial Demon (Magic Circle + Freedom of Movement).
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Daylight. And they even killed the Primordial Demon (Magic Circle + Freedom of Movement).Fair enough...but what about the deeper darkness???
Not to get you off the topic of killing PCs with rainbows here...hehe...Our group just went through it yesterday, and we're a pretty darned optimized group, but between the demons' deeper darkness at will and the Succubus' compulsions, we even struggled, even with a couple of suppress compulsions, daylights and dispel magic, and I was just curious how you guys handled it!
Great mod by the way!
Your optimized group is forgetting a best flavor of cheese in Pathfinder Society play, the Clear Spindle Ioun Stone in a Wayfinder. For a few thousand gold you become immune to mind-affecting effects.
This is the most overpowered item for the price in the game. It has the power to ruin many high level encounters. :(
Yeah, we cast Daylight, and had MC going...but as soon as we cast Daylight, the demon just cast Deeper Dark the next round, so we dispelled it...and the next round he did the same thing. And we had two shadow demons and the succubus going, so we couldn't just take them all out in one or two rounds...
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Hi, I'm looking to run this and I've got a few big questions about the Primordial Demon.
It's listed as Incorporeal in its Defensive Abilities, but the tactics state that it grapples, which is impossible for an Incorporeal creature.
Incorporeal creatures also essentially hit Touch AC, so does that factor into its tendril attacks? (An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it.)
In addition, Incorporeal creatures should have no Natural Armor bonus, but the listed statblock includes a sizeable Natural AC. (An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus)
Knowing all of this, is the creature Incorporeal or not? Does it retain the 1/2 damage from magic and magic weapons as well as the 50% miss chance from non-damaging effects and spells? Or do the PC themselves count as Incorporeal in the dream world? (In which case do they also take on all the properties of being Incorporeal - ie. Gain Deflection AC and lose Natural Armor bonus, cannot be grappled, etc).
Thanks!
Well, considering the exact nature of what this creature is and how this encounter will resolve itself I'd run it as is. The demon can retain it's in-corporeality while still being able to grapple. It is just grabbing hold of the targets mind not actually grappling the target it can easily be spun that way.
Since there are no repercussions at all from this encounter it's not really imperative that you hammer out every detail perfectly. It's all a dream, the rules are more fluid there.
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Finally running this on Saturday and thought I'd share an idea I had while reviewing the scenario.
I ordered this and will be bringing it to the game in a sack. When I do the mission brief I plan on having it as a quasit prop and physically acting out Osprey's abuse of the demon.
I can't wait to see everyone in the store looking at me like I've lost my mind. :D
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I'm running this Sunday and noticed the lower level primordial demon has grab, but the higher level one doesn't. Is this correct or a typo?So no one has an answer, then?
I think it is supposed to have grab given the description of its tactics and Psychic Implosion ability (as part of constrict, which I've only so far seen as part of a grab ability).
However, if you feel a bit queasy about guessing on this, then just pick one character like it says in the tactics, smack him around with a couple of the attacks, attempt a grab on the next couple. The CMB is pretty darn high and it's likely you'll be doing some nice Implosion damage before you know it.
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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Finally running this on Saturday and thought I'd share an idea I had while reviewing the scenario.
I ordered this and will be bringing it to the game in a sack. When I do the mission brief I plan on having it as a quasit prop and physically acting out Osprey's abuse of the demon.
I can't wait to see everyone in the store looking at me like I've lost my mind. :D
I read this and figured I had to do something similar. Sadly I did not have a c'thulu, but my goblin plushy did just fine!
Also, starcrossed lovers Graz’ith Ur Maurgith and Ephierone made it back to the Abyss together <3
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In the fight against the primordial demon does the spells return after the combat?
Nothing used in the dreamscape is actually used in the real world. Once they enter, any spells expended or charges used are restored once they exit. The only exception is the damage deal if the character is killed in the dreamscape.
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Background: Ran the demon tactics-as-written. I didn't damage/pin/move and instead used the psychic implosion.
The way that the creature is written, the Psychic Implosion can never happen.
The primordial demon needs to spend the standard action of every round maintaining the grapple, thus it can never use its full action to use its ability.
Thoughts? Am I missing something?
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If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold.
The rules do not specify that taking other actions causes you to lose the grapple. Only that if you do not take the standard action to maintain, then you lose it. The creature can take the full-round action while it still has the opponent grappled, then afterwards loses the grapple, as it has no standard action left.
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That maybe makes sense mechanically and it never crossed my mind that you wouldn't lose the grapple until the end of the round if you didn't maintain, but the actual tactics imply that the creature doesn't lose its grapple.
You could read it as it keeps going Grab->Implosion->Release over two rounds indefinitely (until a death occurs), but that is a stilted reading of the text, in my opinion.
I will run it your proposed way, however.
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Side question on the Grapple
So wouldn't you be forced at the beginning of the round to choose to release or to take the standard action due to the "must" language?
The moment the creature tries to implosion, the grapple is broken because it chose release over maintain is how it reads to me.
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@James, i know this is two years late- but melee builds aught to take the Blindfight feat to combat effectively in darkness.
Here's a question, since i'm running this scenario this weekend, possibly.
Osprey has 10 rounds of invisibility when fighting the Psychic Demon; is there a minimum number of rounds to get the needed information from the priest? it'd be anticlimactic for the fight to end after a few rounds, and Osprey getting not much because of it.
I'd figure that at least two rounds are needed for at least an "underground laboratory" to be disclosed.
Would long survival warrant greater information yielded?
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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I'd say it can counter with Deeper Darkness. It can't attack, but it can still take a standard action for a non-offensive spell.
Then there's the discussion whether it can still take a move action left after using Deeper Darkness. Is it a matter of "you've already used your single action per turn, so you can't do anything else," or is it a matter of shaking off the debuff gives you your full turn back? But that's a whole different can of worms I'm not sure how to answer. I'd say it varies from GM to GM and I'll leave it up to you how to interpret it.
