@ Winter Soldier
You know, that was a direct insult you posted about Comics for Dummies. That whole post was snobby, and pretty arrogant.
I'm not wrong for liking what I like, no more then you are, and niether of our tastes validate or invalidate anything.
Hey, I didn't name that "law"......
Yeah, there's no accounting for taste, sure. And there has been some good stuff from the Ultimate line, mostly Team-Up, early X-Men, and Spider-Man. But are you seriously going to defend something like Ultimatum? Because that seems to be the norm for most Ultimate stuff.
I must disagree here. Just because he's strong minded and a bit of a jerk doesn't mean he would turn a blind eye to offenses.You're speculating just as much as I am, we just like different variations of the same character.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. Still, I think you are attributing negative aspects to a character you dislike, which may be making them worse than they really are.
When you can curl 500lbs, kicking a helpless 98lb weakling in the face goes far beyond being "a bit of a jerk".I must disagree here. Just because he's strong minded and a bit of a jerk doesn't mean he would turn a blind eye to offenses. Quite the opposite, I'd say. But I don't think we're going to see that in this comic, Millar or no.I see where you're coming from, but the idea of a captain america who waltzes through life never showing the stain of the things he's had to do in the name of his country is a little too 50's "we're all alright!" for me. He killed people in the war, he had to, and the idea that he'd balk at doing that again always seemed a little too disingenuous to me.
Wasn't this done to make him turn into the Hulk? Or was this done to boost Banner for his lunch money?
EDIT- Banner is THE HULK. He's far from helpless.
No, that was some other time. This was just after the Hulk trashed NYC. Granted, Steve had a good reason to be pissed, but kicking him in the face and knocking teeth out crossed the line from righteous anger to sadism.
Matthew: Same thing with the fight with Pym. Steve probably had an even better reason to be pissed in this situation, but again, I felt like he derived too much pleasure from the beatdown for it to be righteous.
That WAS pretty hilarious.A little unfair for those of us who want a bit of claret, as the 90s have been over for several years. The characters that came out of that period are still beloved and are still followed; many could be credited with keeping the genre alive in some respects while the big two diddled with alternate realties and clones.Have you followed the 'Shatterstar controversy'? It's been rather amusing watching a Liefield character get three dimensional under someone else's pen, and Liefield's reaction. "He's not gay, he's a soldier, like a Spartan!" was exceptionally humourus.
HA!!!!! That did make me lol quite a bit.
I post pretty regularly on Dixon's board. He can definitely put out a "know it all/you darned kids know nothing" vibe from time to time, but the guy IS really smart, and he understands the medium much better than he's routinely given credit for.A Quote from DixonI would say he's falling a bit into his own stereotype of sub literates here regarding some of his later comments.
I'd never say Dixon was unintelligent- the man has done more for comics than most. However, once you start going down the know it all road, it's just a hop, skip and a jump to "everyone is stupid except for me", which is a turnoff for me.
When you can curl 500lbs, kicking a helpless 98lb weakling in the face goes far beyond being "a bit of a jerk".I must disagree here. Just because he's strong minded and a bit of a jerk doesn't mean he would turn a blind eye to offenses. Quite the opposite, I'd say. But I don't think we're going to see that in this comic, Millar or no.I see where you're coming from, but the idea of a captain america who waltzes through life never showing the stain of the things he's had to do in the name of his country is a little too 50's "we're all alright!" for me. He killed people in the war, he had to, and the idea that he'd balk at doing that again always seemed a little too disingenuous to me.
Wasn't this done to make him turn into the Hulk? Or was this done to boost Banner for his lunch money?
EDIT- Banner is THE HULK. He's far from helpless.
No, that was some other time. This was just after the Hulk trashed NYC. Granted, Steve had a good reason to be pissed, but kicking him in the face and knocking teeth out crossed the line from righteous anger to sadism.
Matthew: Same thing with the fight with Pym. Steve probably had an even better reason to be pissed in this situation, but again, I felt like he derived too much pleasure from the beatdown for it to be righteous.
Come on. What do you want him to do, give them the frowning of a lifetime? I'm not saying that he should go all Punisher on people, but he slugged Banner -ONCE- for potential mass murder, and beat the crap out of a wife-beater. I don't think he should get a medal for it, but I think it just shows that he's human and can lose his temper, just like anyone else.
I'd never say Dixon was unintelligent- the man has done more for comics than most. However, once you start going down the know it all road, it's just a hop, skip and a jump to "everyone is stupid except for me", which is a turnoff for me.I post pretty regularly on Dixon's board. He can definitely put out a "know it all/you darned kids know nothing" vibe from time to time, but the guy IS really smart, and he understands the medium much better than he's routinely given credit for.A Quote from DixonI would say he's falling a bit into his own stereotype of sub literates here regarding some of his later comments.
And like I said above, I've seen him stray into that territory from time to time. That aside, it doesn't make his discourse on what superhero comics should and shouldn't be wrong.
And like I said above, I've seen him stray into that territory from time to time. That aside, it doesn't make his discourse on what superhero comics should and shouldn't be wrong.I'd never say Dixon was unintelligent- the man has done more for comics than most. However, once you start going down the know it all road, it's just a hop, skip and a jump to "everyone is stupid except for me", which is a turnoff for me.I post pretty regularly on Dixon's board. He can definitely put out a "know it all/you darned kids know nothing" vibe from time to time, but the guy IS really smart, and he understands the medium much better than he's routinely given credit for.A Quote from DixonI would say he's falling a bit into his own stereotype of sub literates here regarding some of his later comments.
Agreed. I shouldn't think he's wrong for his opinion. Actually I DON'T think he's wrong, just that his attitude overall turns me off on an intellectual level.
Come on. What do you want him to do, give them the frowning of a lifetime? I'm not saying that he should go all Punisher on people, but he slugged Banner -ONCE- for potential mass murder, and beat the crap out of a wife-beater. I don't think he should get a medal for it, but I think it just shows that he's human and can lose his temper, just like anyone else.When you can curl 500lbs, kicking a helpless 98lb weakling in the face goes far beyond being "a bit of a jerk".I must disagree here. Just because he's strong minded and a bit of a jerk doesn't mean he would turn a blind eye to offenses. Quite the opposite, I'd say. But I don't think we're going to see that in this comic, Millar or no.I see where you're coming from, but the idea of a captain america who waltzes through life never showing the stain of the things he's had to do in the name of his country is a little too 50's "we're all alright!" for me. He killed people in the war, he had to, and the idea that he'd balk at doing that again always seemed a little too disingenuous to me.
Wasn't this done to make him turn into the Hulk? Or was this done to boost Banner for his lunch money?
EDIT- Banner is THE HULK. He's far from helpless.
No, that was some other time. This was just after the Hulk trashed NYC. Granted, Steve had a good reason to be pissed, but kicking him in the face and knocking teeth out crossed the line from righteous anger to sadism.
Matthew: Same thing with the fight with Pym. Steve probably had an even better reason to be pissed in this situation, but again, I felt like he derived too much pleasure from the beatdown for it to be righteous.
Welllll.....now that I think about it, Banner did inject himself and cause that whole ramapage, didn't he?
My point isn't whether or not Pym and Banner deserved their beatings: they absolutely did. My problem is that Cap is enjoying it way too much both times, to the point of even taunting the physically punt un-Hulked Banner before practially putting him in the ICU. It's WORSE than what the Punisher does, because he doesn't enjoy it. It's sadism, and that is mental illness.
Agreed. I shouldn't think he's wrong for his opinion. Actually I DON'T think he's wrong, just that his attitude overall turns me off on an intellectual level.And like I said above, I've seen him stray into that territory from time to time. That aside, it doesn't make his discourse on what superhero comics should and shouldn't be wrong.A Quote from Dixon
True.....if you want to be heard on something, it helps to be as level-headed as you can manage.
Captain America? Not something I can be level-headed about. If the Cap movie is less than stellar, my nerd rage is going to look something like the third act of Akira.
Welllll.....now that I think about it, Banner did inject himself and cause that whole ramapage, didn't he?
My point isn't whether or not Pym and Banner deserved their beatings: they absolutely did. My problem is that Cap is enjoying it way too much both times, to the point of even taunting the physically punt un-Hulked Banner before practially putting him in the ICU. It's WORSE than what the Punisher does, because he doesn't enjoy it. It's sadism, and that is mental illness.
I guess I'm going to have to re-read that then. I don't recall him going ape scat on Banner, but it's been some time.
I don't think he enjoyed Pym all that much as he was driven by rage at the time. Nor did he keep him from getting help once EMS arrived. He just beat the crap out of him for doing something reprehensible, and then went back to what he was doing.
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My point isn't whether or not Pym and Banner deserved their beatings: they absolutely did. My problem is that Cap is enjoying it way too much both times, to the point of even taunting the physically punt un-Hulked Banner before practially putting him in the ICU. It's WORSE than what the Punisher does, because he doesn't enjoy it. It's sadism, and that is mental illness.
I didn't get one hint of enjoyment from reading the story where he beat Hank Pym, not one iota of enjoyment, just a "You beat someone weaker than you and now I'm going to show you what it's like." I don't know where you read his sadism in that one.
I don't remember him beating up bruce, it's been a while, but I think you're reading something into it that isn't there because I also thought the "A doesn't stand for france" line as a bit overly jingoistic, but I never once got the impressions you took from your reading of the ultimates line. Cap in that line is one of my favorite characters (sometimes not though, sometimes I think he went too far, and I'm ignoring the existence of ultimates 3) and I actually dislike the idea of overly jingoistic characters, even if they are named Captain America, and I've read the enitirety of the ultimates run, so even though I don't remember this one thing I know I didn't get your sadistic bent from it. If any characters were sadistic I think it would be Fury and Pym.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Yeah that was all great until Civil War. Blah blah blazah we're doing the right thing here blah blah OH GAWD I've MADE A HIDEOUS MISTAKE Blah blah...The first half of civil war Cap was amazing, but the second half he just felt like a sellout and *personally* I'd say that someone as intelligent as cap would have, y'know, stuck bythe moral line he'd been standing on.
My take on this isn't that Cap decided he was on the wrong side of the Civil War, only that the method he was using to combat it was wrong. It took the full scale battle on the streets where innocents were being threatened with collateral damage to make Cap realize he needed to change his method of fighting the SHRA.
When he indicates he made a mistake, he's only talking about the battle in the streets - not his stance against the SHRA. He surrenders to save innocents from harm. That's it.
There's no doubt in my mind that Cap would have continued the fight against the SHRA using his influence in government and contacts in the legal system to overturn the SHRA - using his own trial as his soapbox to communicate to the American people. Unfortunately, he never got the chance as he was assassinated before any of this played out.
That's the way I saw the Civil War conclusion. Cap remained true to his principles, just had a change of heart in his methods after seeing the destruction the conflict was causing. YMMV
My point isn't whether or not Pym and Banner deserved their beatings: they absolutely did. My problem is that Cap is enjoying it way too much both times, to the point of even taunting the physically punt un-Hulked Banner before practially putting him in the ICU. It's WORSE than what the Punisher does, because he doesn't enjoy it. It's sadism, and that is mental illness.
I didn't get one hint of enjoyment from reading the story where he beat Hank Pym, not one iota of enjoyment, just a "You beat someone weaker than you and now I'm going to show you what it's like." I don't know where you read his sadism in that one.
I don't remember him beating up bruce, it's been a while, but I think you're reading something into it that isn't there because I also thought the "A doesn't stand for france" line as a bit overly jingoistic, but I never once got the impressions you took from your reading of the ultimates line. Cap in that line is one of my favorite characters (sometimes not though, sometimes I think he went too far, and I'm ignoring the existence of ultimates 3) and I actually dislike the idea of overly jingoistic characters, even if they are named Captain America, and I've read the enitirety of the ultimates run, so even though I don't remember this one thing I know I didn't get your sadistic bent from it. If any characters were sadistic I think it would be Fury and Pym.
No, I clearly remember a fairly cowering Bruce begging Cap not to hit him, then Cap saying something like, "Good God, man, you wouldn't expect me to hit a man with glasses, would you?", then clocking him HARD in the head.
Yeah that was all great until Civil War. Blah blah blazah we're doing the right thing here blah blah OH GAWD I've MADE A HIDEOUS MISTAKE Blah blah...The first half of civil war Cap was amazing, but the second half he just felt like a sellout and *personally* I'd say that someone as intelligent as cap would have, y'know, stuck bythe moral line he'd been standing on.
My take on this isn't that Cap decided he was on the wrong side of the Civil War, only that the method he was using to combat it was wrong. It took the full scale battle on the streets where innocents were being threatened with collateral damage to make Cap realize he needed to change his method of fighting the SHRA.
When he indicates he made a mistake, he's only talking about the battle in the streets - not his stance against the SHRA. He surrenders to save innocents from harm. That's it.
There's no doubt in my mind that Cap would have continued the fight against the SHRA using his influence in government and contacts in the legal system to overturn the SHRA - using his own trial as his soapbox to communicate to the American people. Unfortunately, he never got the chance as he was assassinated before any of this played out.
That's the way I saw the Civil War conclusion. Cap remained true to his principles, just had a change of heart in his methods after seeing the destruction the conflict was causing. YMMV
Civil War had so much potential, and it was so flawed in execution. Here's a dangling plot thread: Wouldn't Thor wanted to have had some serious words with Reed Richards over the cloned Thor? Or was that all Skrull-Pym and Stark?
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Civil War had so much potential, and it was so flawed in execution. Here's a dangling plot thread: Wouldn't Thor wanted to have had some serious words with Reed Richards over the cloned Thor? Or was that all Skrull-Pym and Stark?
Yeah that was all great until Civil War. Blah blah blazah we're doing the right thing here blah blah OH GAWD I've MADE A HIDEOUS MISTAKE Blah blah...The first half of civil war Cap was amazing, but the second half he just felt like a sellout and *personally* I'd say that someone as intelligent as cap would have, y'know, stuck bythe moral line he'd been standing on.
My take on this isn't that Cap decided he was on the wrong side of the Civil War, only that the method he was using to combat it was wrong. It took the full scale battle on the streets where innocents were being threatened with collateral damage to make Cap realize he needed to change his method of fighting the SHRA.
When he indicates he made a mistake, he's only talking about the battle in the streets - not his stance against the SHRA. He surrenders to save innocents from harm. That's it.
There's no doubt in my mind that Cap would have continued the fight against the SHRA using his influence in government and contacts in the legal system to overturn the SHRA - using his own trial as his soapbox to communicate to the American people. Unfortunately, he never got the chance as he was assassinated before any of this played out.
That's the way I saw the Civil War conclusion. Cap remained true to his principles, just had a change of heart in his methods after seeing the destruction the conflict was causing. YMMV
Thor has confronted Iron Man about the clone in his own book, but I don't believe he ever confronted Reed. THAT would be a conversation I'd have liked to have heard.
RE: Civil War being flawed - All of Marvel's (and DC's, for that matter) "events" seem to suffer from the same problem. They start out great, with a decent premise, but never have a decent ending. The Skrull Invasion had HUGE potential, but fizzled at the end. Same with Civil War, DC's Infinite Crisis, and even Countdown/Final Crisis all started out with potential to be something great, but ended up with a blah ending.
It's almost like the writers write themselves into a corner and don't know how to get out of it. I don't know if its because they are rushed to complete the story in a limited number of issues/length of time, or some other reason, but I must say I'm pretty tired of all of the "events" in comics. I long for the days of events being relegated to annuals or, if you take the Wayback Machine a little further, to once every couple of years.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Rant on Civil War:
Per wiki: The act requires any person in the United States with superhuman abilities to register with the federal government as a "human weapon of mass destruction," reveal his/her true identity to the authorities, and undergo proper training.
Registration: People with powers are dangerous. We restrict firearms (well pre Heller) and a mutant with the ability to shoot energy, an altered human with super strength or a normal guy with a device that gives them ‘powers’ is no different. We aren’t holding them for having the powers. We’re saying to use the powers they should be licensed, and registered. Else we have anyone determining what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ for themselves and it can lead to chaos in the streets. Also people who have undetectable powers, like telepaths, would need to be registered for using the power.
Anti-Registration: People are people and they have a right to privacy and their property. If a person can fly, puts on a set of tights and rescues kittens and puppies from trees, they have a right to wear a mask. People who break the law (i.e. supervillans) should be punished for the crime, not for the crime and having powers. Being able to hold someone indefinitely because they can’t be disarmed is an serious breech of their freedoms and should never be done.
Pros of the Registration side.
Precedent (again, pre-Heller) – cities and states had restrictions on firearm ownership and conceal carry. Sex offender databases
History – Even the Vault generally sucks as a prison, as does the Raft. Villians break out all the time. And how do you hold a being like Wanda or Proteus?
Clear and Present Danger – As mentioned above, some powers are undetectable. Yeah the Juggernaut is hard to miss, but what about the Purple Man, or Charles Xavier? Or Wanda. Some powers can’t be controlled, Ben Grim has terrible luck at being normal, and Tilde Soams is a threat. Not to mention the effects of a loss of control (Wanda, Jean Grey).
Pros of the Anti-registration side
Privacy – Heroes like Firestar had retired, but still had to register. Angelica’s powers are constant, and a hazard (dear playboy, my girlfriend emits microwaves in her sleep).
Due process – By forcing someone to register, you’re assuming guilt. Yes, Emma’s an Omega type telepath. Yes she has (under Whedon) a habit of putting ‘problematic’ telepathic suggestions in the bad guys heads. But you can’t assume that because she does, Betsy, or Charles would do the same.
Discrimination – Anyone can put on Tony’s armour and be Iron Man. Not anyone can ‘become’ Spiderman. Often the powers come from things that the person has no power over, (mutants, altered humans) essentially we are punishing people for their birth, or having a bad day.
This would have been interesting to see a ‘civil war’ on. It would be a logical extension of the ‘world that hates and fears us’ of the X-men, but at the same time, the technological heroes would be more biased towards ‘what’s the problem, you don’t want to register, turn the armor over.
I think the problem was, the writers went a step too far. By making the ‘Negative Zone prison’ and some of the other heavy handed metaphors (Clor) the writers chose sides and it lost the potential for an interesting discussion and became “Steve’s right, Tony’s a Richard.”
And in case anyone's wondering, since I'm one of the more conservative posters on the board...
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Rant on Civil War:
** spoiler omitted **
And in case anyone's wondering, since I'm one of the more conservative posters on the board...
** spoiler omitted **
And as one of the more liberal posters on the board...
I would strongly suggest everyone check out Age of Heroes: Heroes, Age of Heroes: Villains, and Age of Heroes: X-Men. Steve's thoughts on everything and everyone in the Marvel Universe, although I would have preferred if the latter book got the same treatment as the former works.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Anyone else hear something about the powers that be considering removing Captain America from the title of the movie and possibly even refraining from using the name much in the movie itself due to anti-american sentiment?
A co-worker just told me he read this recently ...
Spinoff online said that it will be marketed as 'The First Avenger' in some countries. Yes this upsets me, it would be akin to calling the Persians 'the other nation wanting to expand' in 300. He's Captain America Damnit!
That said, I'm not too upset. Now if they CG out his shield to a plain disk, or CG away the red white and blue... then I'll be angry.
Anyone else hear something about the powers that be considering removing Captain America from the title of the movie and possibly even refraining from using the name much in the movie itself due to anti-american sentiment?
A co-worker just told me he read this recently ...
The French will change his name to "Capt. We loved him when he fought the Nazi's in WWII but we don't realy like him that much now.".
Anyone else hear something about the powers that be considering removing Captain America from the title of the movie and possibly even refraining from using the name much in the movie itself due to anti-american sentiment?
A co-worker just told me he read this recently ...
Spinoff online said that it will be marketed as 'The First Avenger' in some countries. Yes this upsets me, it would be akin to calling the Persians 'the other nation wanting to expand' in 300. He's Captain America Damnit!
That said, I'm not too upset. Now if they CG out his shield to a plain disk, or CG away the red white and blue... then I'll be angry.
I am pretty sure the full title is Captain America: The First Avenger. Presumably to tie it to the Avengers movie next year.
Capt A would be so hard to do well, he is the kind of guy that should make everyone feel patriotic and proud while he feels out of touch and distant but keeps on fighting. The did a good story in the animated Ultimate Avengers of the Cap; but how much audience are you going to capture with the Nazi story; the way I hear it; there are a fair number of debunkers and people who dont even believe in the holocost stuff. I dont think that story is to timely. In Ironman they use the war in Afghanistan; which I think was a good idea; thought that was going the route of the that super villain with the five rings.
First Avenger; that really bugs me; he wasnt an original Avenger in the comics, but he certainly was the unquestioned leader. Capt A has an aura around him; makes people stand up straighter; feel more proud; stuff like that; hope they pull that off; am waiting for the movie; but am only hopeful.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Capt A would be so hard to do well, he is the kind of guy that should make everyone feel patriotic and proud while he feels out of touch and distant but keeps on fighting. The did a good story in the animated Ultimate Avengers of the Cap; but how much audience are you going to capture with the Nazi story; the way I hear it; there are a fair number of debunkers and people who dont even believe in the holocost stuff. I dont think that story is to timely. In Ironman they use the war in Afghanistan; which I think was a good idea; thought that was going the route of the that super villain with the five rings.
First Avenger; that really bugs me; he wasnt an original Avenger in the comics, but he certainly was the unquestioned leader. Capt A has an aura around him; makes people stand up straighter; feel more proud; stuff like that; hope they pull that off; am waiting for the movie; but am only hopeful.
Well it's like Namor being the 'first mutant' I guess.
Just saw the trailer. Must... See... Movie...
I too am looking forward to checking this out as well as Thor.
I must say, back in the day; hehe, I read the original comics of the battle of Capt vs the Red Skull who obtained the Cosmic Cube; was a great story that made a big impression on me; but then this was the 70's and I was just a kid.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I have a dream.
In my dream the Red Skull and Captain America both grab hold of the Cosmic Cube/Tesseract and they do a slow 360 pan around them as they both try to impose their will on each other we see a bubble and reflected in the bubble are ghostly images of Namor, the Human Torch, Toro, the Whizzer, Iron Cross, Master Man, Citizen V... All the WW II heroes and villians that aren't in the movie, just for continuity porn. :-)
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Anyone else hear something about the powers that be considering removing Captain America from the title of the movie and possibly even refraining from using the name much in the movie itself due to anti-american sentiment?
A co-worker just told me he read this recently ...
I would consider this quite stupid. I am French and an avid reader of american comics. To me, Captain America represents the best part of what the USA are/could be.
It does not mean that I applaud to everything the aforementioned country ever did (I most definitely do not). But I heartily agree that said country has its moments of grandeur that each and every human being on earth can agree with and support whatever his or her nationality.
And that is what Captain America embodies.
I oppose the view that Capt A didnt have incredible charisma. That is certainly not what the comics portrayed; he was a carrying and thoughtful person with everyone best interest at heart; soft spoken when not in combat; troubled to be sure, but always had time for others when not in his own personal crisis. All other heroes, well except Wolverine who is a butthead, looked up and respected the Captain. You dont get that without a lot of charisma.
Yeah, that looks pretty badass.
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Here's another article with an embedded video.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Here's another article with an embedded video.
** spoiler omitted **
I saw that clip on the commerical last night.
That said, there was a chill down my spine seeing the shield. I guess one of the chase Hero Clix figures is Cap in ice.
Saw Cap tonight at the midnight showing. My zero spoiler review is simple:
Go see it.
BEST comic book movie and probably THE blockbuster of the summer.
I'm still mad they didn't open it on the 4th of July weekend to stomp the pants of the Bayformers movie, but that's semantics at this point.
I'll be honest, this beat Thor, Green Lantern (which I liked, BTW), the Batman Begins and Dark Knight movies for compelling story and sheer awesome factor for what they did with it.
FINALLY, as I've seen it elsewhere, but it fits:
A hero who wants to be a hero. No emo crap here.
/d
Saw Cap tonight at the midnight showing. My zero spoiler review is simple:
Go see it.
BEST comic book movie and probably THE blockbuster of the summer.
I'm still mad they didn't open it on the 4th of July weekend to stomp the pants of the Bayformers movie, but that's semantics at this point.
I'll be honest, this beat Thor, Green Lantern (which I liked, BTW), the Batman Begins and Dark Knight movies for compelling story and sheer awesome factor for what they did with it.
FINALLY, as I've seen it elsewhere, but it fits:
A hero who wants to be a hero. No emo crap here./d
Thank you for the spoiler free review. I'll be going today to enjoy the movie.
Question: 3D or no?
TV Tropes had it pegged here done well Civil War was an excellent idea that was absolutely murdered in the execution. The idea was supposed to be a morally ethically ambigous situation with good characters on both sides of a tormented issue (much like the case in the original real life American Civil War) Problem is the way registration was handled and the characters used to enforce it were out and out evil. i.e. Super-Villains who were working for that law yet remained pretty much 100 percent villains when they weren't being jerks. If the Civil War HAD been properly handled Cap America would have been for a Registration act that wasn't being run by sadistic monsters. (He doesn't have problems with a military draft after all)[Thor has confronted Iron Man about the clone in his own book, but I don't believe he ever confronted Reed. THAT would be a conversation I'd have liked to have heard.
RE: Civil War being flawed - All of Marvel's (and DC's, for that matter) "events" seem to suffer from the same problem. They start out great, with a decent premise, but never have a decent ending. The Skrull Invasion had HUGE potential, but fizzled at the end. Same with Civil War, DC's Infinite Crisis, and even Countdown/Final Crisis all started out with potential to be something great, but ended up with a blah ending.
It's almost like the writers write themselves into a corner and don't know how to get out of it. I don't know if its because they are rushed to complete the story in a limited number of issues/length of time, or some other reason, but I must say I'm pretty tired of all of the "events" in comics. I long for the days of events being relegated to annuals or, if you take the Wayback Machine a little further, to once every couple of years.
Actually that was one of the few things I found interesting about Civil War- I would have wanted more of a mix of heroes being forced to work with "former" villains so it ended up resembling a host of Suicide Squads as opposed to the GvsE-fest that Civil War ended up becoming, but whatever.
I saw it at midnight last night too. It was definitely a fun film. I certainly liked it more than Green Lantern and X-Men: First Class. I don't like 3D so I saw the 2D version.
As usual, hang around through the closing credits.
The folks who saw it in 3-d didn't have as much fun as those of us who saw the 2-d version. There were a few scenes that they said were wierd in 3-d, so I'd say 2-d would probably be best.
/d
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Went in with hopes but not necessarily expectations. It blew away even what I'd hoped. It's not without its flaws or the occasional mind-bogglingly big plot hole, but I still left the theater with an undeniable sense of awesome, and an almost unbearable level of anticipation for "Avengers" next year...