Forget the wolf, worship me!It's true. Rone grants me my spells.Of all of these, I think Roneism seems to make the most sense. Convert now! Our operators are standing by!
Pfff... you've got no health plan. Get outta here.
It's true. Rone grants me my spells.Of all of these, I think Roneism seems to make the most sense. Convert now! Our operators are standing by!
For that support, take another sixth level spell slot. On me.
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Like it or not, there is a double standard. Due to fairly recent events, some types of "jokes" will always be offensive and innapropriate. I haven't heard anybody making any 9/11 jokes, have you? It ultimately boils down to the "What? Too soon?" factor as i like to call it.
That and any "joke" that incorporates any type of racial/ethnic/religious slur is, and always will be, innapropriate.
Like it or not, eh? Well I don't like it! Double-standards are generally regarded as an undesirable social phenomenon. I can't make a joke about Quanza, but it's acceptable to make a joke about white folks or Easter? Why? What's the difference?
Say I make a joke among friends about God and Jesus playing golf together - but God keeps working miracles to cheat! I'm belittling the diety around witch the entire Christian faith - among others - is based! Oh noes!
Is that really an inappropriate or hateful thing that I've done?
If your answer is yes, I'm afraid you might be in DIRE need of some perspective.
I'm an atheist so i could care less... besides, according to xian dogma, god and jesus are one and the same even tho the former is the latter's father...so how could they play golf together? Nvm, i'm just confusing myself with that one.
Basically it boils down to this...unless you've gained the perspective of being on the receiving end of being a minority, then you have place disparaging said minority. If black people want to make black jokes, fine have at it. Mexicans make mexican jokes? No skin off my back. And as for jokes about white folks...well i think we've done enough to warrant a little bit of needling by those who we've oppressed but hey /shrug to each his own. If you want to continue telling bigoted jokes, don't let me stop you.
I am, and have always been, a devout Roneist.
Rone loves you. Spread Rone's word like rich creamery butter.
Rone loves your insects too. But no out sex. It's too cold in winter.
Nope, read the response i posted shortly after your reply.Even Scientologists?Scientology is a cult. The US is one of the few countries in the world that actually considers this cult a religion. I had a friend that wrote a piece critical of scientology in a community college newspaper, and he had scientologist foot-soldiers hounding him for months.So religion is sacred, unless it’s a religion you don’t like , then it’s a cult and it’s okay to insult them?
Nice.
I did, and you seam to contradict yourself. You said it’s not okay to mock religion, then someone (I believe jokingly) asks if that includes Scientology. You respond that Scientology is a cult, not a religion. Then you say all religions are cults. So, is it okay by your standards to mock religion because they are all cults? Or is it not okay to mock cults because they are all religion? It’s just a little hard to gauge your position.
Pfff... you've got no health plan. Get outta here.Forget the wolf, worship me!It's true. Rone grants me my spells.Of all of these, I think Roneism seems to make the most sense. Convert now! Our operators are standing by!
Bah, I will just sue you and take your health plan.
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For that support, take another sixth level spell slot. On me.It's true. Rone grants me my spells.Of all of these, I think Roneism seems to make the most sense. Convert now! Our operators are standing by!
Ooh good! Another slot for Create Undead.
I mean...
Heal of course...
*shuffles uncomfortably*
Maaaaaasssssssssttttttter!
Hey, raise all the farm fresh necrobots you see fit to, so long as you adhere to our tenets, have fun!
Bah, I will just sue you and take your health plan.Pfff... you've got no health plan. Get outta here.Forget the wolf, worship me!It's true. Rone grants me my spells.Of all of these, I think Roneism seems to make the most sense. Convert now! Our operators are standing by!
Come with me to the fields for a moment, boy-o. I'll tell you about the rabbits.
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I did, and you seam to contradict yourself. You said it’s not okay to mock religion, then someone (I believe jokingly) asks if that includes Scientology. You respond that Scientology is a cult, not a religion. Then you say all religions are cults. So, is it okay by your standards to mock religion because they are all cults? Or is it not okay to mock cults because they are all religion? It’s just a little hard to gauge your position.Nope, read the response i posted shortly after your reply.Even Scientologists?Scientology is a cult. The US is one of the few countries in the world that actually considers this cult a religion. I had a friend that wrote a piece critical of scientology in a community college newspaper, and he had scientologist foot-soldiers hounding him for months.So religion is sacred, unless it’s a religion you don’t like , then it’s a cult and it’s okay to insult them?
Nice.
According to the LITERAL definition of the word "cult" each and every religion on the face of the planet is, in fact, a cult. Period. I stated the truth and nothing more.
Scientology does fall under the more widely held definition of cult (unorthodox religion), so once again, i have done nothing to mock religion.
I will admit that I have a less than favorable view of religion, but that was not evidenced in either of my posts.
Come with me to the fields for a moment, boy-o. I'll tell you about the rabbits.Bah, I will just sue you and take your health plan.Pfff... you've got no health plan. Get outta here.Forget the wolf, worship me!It's true. Rone grants me my spells.Of all of these, I think Roneism seems to make the most sense. Convert now! Our operators are standing by!
Hey, you told me I was the only Bunny in your life!
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My niece is part Polish and HATES it and I do not let up. Why, becuase it is funny. the jokes are meant for fun, not for meaness.Your niece hates it, and you refuse to let up on it, but "it's not for meanness"?
If your niece laughed along with you, THEN it would be funny. That doesn't sound like it's the case.
Let me guess: it's "funny" to you because you get a reaction out of your niece hating it. That is the very definition of mean.
This whole thing. It's not about being PC and guilt and insert your jargon of the day here.
It's about speaking to people respectfully. If someone says, "I feel hurt by what you said," the civil, mature thing to do IS APOLOGIZE. And resolve not to do it again.
End of story.
What if all of his other relatives thought it was funny and that his niece was being thin skinned? He should still never use that type of humor again because one person took offence to it?
I have a vegetarian friend who finds the consumption of meat, or even granulated sugar (it’s colored with bone ash) offensive, so the civil, mature thing to do is apologize to him for eating meat and never consume meat or granulated sugar again?
Are the relatives the target of this "joke"? From what i gathered from post and your hypothetical "what if?" they are not, so it is moot point. She is the target. She is offended. The joke itself is meant to disparage an entire country. However funny it may be, it is innapropriate.
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2. Gay was 'Happy' a term of joy, as in: "A gay ole time". So they took a positive word and placed it on a group of people. The people are pretty much forcing a negative conitation to the word, not that there is one in and of itself. This is opposed to the term n%#~%~, that comes from Niggardly which is being ignorant, uneducated, which comes from a negative word from the beginning.
Niggardly doesn't mean ignorant or uneducated, it means *stingy* or miserly, and comes from a Scandinavian term nyggard that's been around since the 1300's. Other than some Senator or Judge or something getting hounded mercilessly recently for using 'niggardly' in a speech, by people who were flamingly ignorant of it's true meaning and thought he was using a racial slur, it's got *nothing* to do with black people.
The other word is a corruption of the Spanish noun negro, descended from the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color black. It's believed that the French, using negre, started it's use as a pejorative, and it spread to English-speakers from there.
The two words have nothing in common.
Spot on about the 'gay' thing, 'though. You can still hear it in it's original context in the Flintstones theme song, when they finish, "A dabba doo time, you'll have a gay old time!"
Hey, you told me I was the only Bunny in your life!Come with me to the fields for a moment, boy-o. I'll tell you about the rabbits.Bah, I will just sue you and take your health plan.Pfff... you've got no health plan. Get outta here.Forget the wolf, worship me!It's true. Rone grants me my spells.Of all of these, I think Roneism seems to make the most sense. Convert now! Our operators are standing by!
My life when I visit your state. It's true in that sense. I wasn't lying, babe. You're very important to me. Oooo... look at the time. Gotta make a plane.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Even Scientologists?Scientology is a cult. The US is one of the few countries in the world that actually considers this cult a religion. I had a friend that wrote a piece critical of scientology in a community college newspaper, and he had scientologist foot-soldiers hounding him for months.So religion is sacred, unless it’s a religion you don’t like , then it’s a cult and it’s okay to insult them?
Nice.
+1
Also, is it just me, or do those who most loudly proclaim that Scientology is a cult typically belong to branches of Christianity that are of relatively recent pedigree and have suffered such accusations themselves...
Edit: Ah, I see there was a clarification upthread about the lack of distinction between religion and cults. That works for me. I only get annoyed when it's someone belonging to a particular religion accusing Scientology of being a non-religion. That always strikes me as hypocritical...
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Like it or not, there is a double standard. Due to fairly recent events, some types of "jokes" will always be offensive and innapropriate. I haven't heard anybody making any 9/11 jokes, have you? It ultimately boils down to the "What? Too soon?" factor as i like to call it.
That and any "joke" that incorporates any type of racial/ethnic/religious slur is, and always will be, innapropriate.
Like it or not, eh? Well I don't like it! Double-standards are generally regarded as an undesirable social phenomenon. I can't make a joke about Quanza, but it's acceptable to make a joke about white folks or Easter? Why? What's the difference?
Say I make a joke among friends about God and Jesus playing golf together - but God keeps working miracles to cheat! I'm belittling the diety around witch the entire Christian faith - among others - is based! Oh noes!
Is that really an inappropriate or hateful thing that I've done?
If your answer is yes, I'm afraid you might be in DIRE need of some perspective.
I'm an atheist, i could care less if you made a god/jesus joke...but if it's offensive or stereotypical of a group of people, it should not be told.
As for the double standard...it takes some perspective as a minority i guess for it to make sense. The double standard lies in the connotation behind the jokes. Black/mexican/irish/polish/whatever jokes are made by people who want to feel better about themselves at the expense of a minority. Minorities who make white jokes are more pushing back against the centuries of oppression that us white folks are responsible for. So yes, there's a double standard. Like i said, you don't have to like it, but it's there.
Not really. If I say something you find derogatory and you say that you find it derogatory then that’s fine. You have every right to take offence to every little thing I say and let the world know that you think every word out of my mouth (or rather, out of my keyboard in this case) is hate speech. That is your right. You do not however have the right to limit what I say because it offends you.Just do not begin to tell me of how I should act, talk or interact with others.Does anyone else see the irony here? When someone says they find a term derogatory, they're told not to exercise their freedom of speech to comment on another's speech.No, I don't have the right (personally) to limit what you say. But the choice to flag a post is made available to me. Paizo can remove posts from their messageboards that they feel are inappropriate. Whenever someone exercises their right to comment on the rudeness of others, the outcry of "Don't censor me! I have rights!" strikes me as ironic.
Commenting on the rudeness of someone is a little different than anonymously flagging someone so that the moderators will delete their posts. Instead of having a discussion about your difference of opinion like an adult you’re essentially running to the mods screaming “teacher! teacher! He said a bad word!” like a child.
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Tangently related to the thread title (of people taking offense to things inappropriately);
A friend's mom used to call me a 'mensch' occasionally, and *usually* when she called someone something in Yiddish it wasn't something nice, so I went through life assuming that she was calling me a dunderhead or something. Decades later, I took offense to someone calling a friend a mensch, and found out it was a compliment.
Doh!
Tangently related to the thread title (of people taking offense to things inappropriately);
A friend's mom used to call me a 'mensch' occasionally, and *usually* when she called someone something in Yiddish it wasn't something nice, so I went through life assuming that she was calling me a dunderhead or something. Decades later, I took offense to someone calling a friend a mensch, and found out it was a compliment.
Doh!
Yeah, means you a truly decent man who take care of people. When you're not being a schmuck, that is. ;)
Hey, whatever happened to ubermensch?
Hey, whatever happened to ubermensch?
Right here. Sorry, I was in the kitchen.
Nah, there used to be a guy on the boards with the sobriquet, Ubermensch.
Nah, there used to be a guy on the boards with the sobriquet, Ubermensch.
Oh yeah! Where is that guy?
Black/mexican/irish/polish/whatever jokes are made by people who want to feel better about themselves at the expense of a minority. Minorities who make white jokes are more pushing back against the centuries of oppression that us white folks are responsible for.
Aaaand that's the most offensive thing anyone's said in this thread.
Let me get this straight.
Because I'm a white athiest making jokes about Irish drinking habits or the Christian mythos, I'm making myself feel better at the expense of someone else?
And also... if a Christian Irish guy makes a joke about ME, he's fighting back against the oppression his Irish and Christian ancestors endured at the hands European persecutors?
Somebody's fingers are faster than his brain.
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Black/mexican/irish/polish/whatever jokes are made by people who want to feel better about themselves at the expense of a minority. Minorities who make white jokes are more pushing back against the centuries of oppression that us white folks are responsible for.Aaaand that's the most offensive thing anyone's said in this thread.
Let me get this straight.
Because I'm a white athiest making jokes about Irish drinking habits or the Christian mythos, I'm making myself feel better at the expense of someone else?
And also... if a Christian Irish guy makes a joke about ME, he's fighting back against the oppression his Irish and Christian ancestors endured at the hands European persecutors?
Somebody's fingers are faster than his brain.
I think you got your hypothetical analogies backward.
Like i said, feel free to make all the bigoted jokes you would like. For me personally, I won't tell a racist "joke," even in close company. It just amazes me what people feel like they can get away with. I've had people tell me some very off-color, racist jokes thinking that, because I'm white, I would get a kick out of them. They also look confused when I tell them I'm offended by them...until I further clarify that not only do i find those types of jokes offensive on GP, but that my wife is black as well. You never know the full back story of the people to whom you are telling these "jokes" so they're just never a good idea. Period.
And yes, the double standard does seem ridiculous, but the fact of the matter is that it exists. There's nothing you can do about it besides live with it.
EDIT: And i said the connotation behind the joke, not that it was the sole purpose of them.
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As the popularity of Pathfinder and our other Paizo products grows, we are experiencing an influx of people who are new to the boards and have not had time to grow accustomed to the community on the messageboards. We would like to encourage all users (including ones that have been here a while and should know better) to be considerate of other users and not post offensive material or comments. If a post comes up that does contain offensive material, we would like to encourage use of the "Flag" button. Once you flag something, the best step to take next is to move on. Flame wars are not appreciated or enjoyed by any party involved (especially the battleground) and do little to foster the spirit of community we are trying to encourage.
Thanks,
Sara Marie
One out of 8 definitions say that to be defined as a cult, a religion has to be unorthodox. That means christianity, islam, judaism, buddhism, hiduism...any other -ism, etc. are all considered cults.
As an atheist, my personal view is just that...every single religion is a cult and they all originated as a means with which to control an unruly population. What better authority figure than one who cannot be seen (but offers a fate of eternal suffering for disobeying) never mind challenged?
There are also religions that do not focus on the worship of any form of theism; anthropomorphism or otherwise. Then there are also sectarian cults and cults of personality. As a secular atheist / philosophical agnostic, they can be just as guilty. O'Hare was a cult of personality, for instance. Same goes for Secular Humanism. Rejection of a Prime Mover does not dispose the nomenclature of being assigned a cult status.
I did, and you seam to contradict yourself. You said it’s not okay to mock religion, then someone (I believe jokingly) asks if that includes Scientology. You respond that Scientology is a cult, not a religion. Then you say all religions are cults. So, is it okay by your standards to mock religion because they are all cults? Or is it not okay to mock cults because they are all religion? It’s just a little hard to gauge your position.
I'm the guilty party. It was my set-up to see if I get a nibble. ;)
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There are also religions that do not focus on the worship of any form of theism; anthropomorphism or otherwise. Then there are also sectarian cults and cults of personality. As a secular atheist / philosophical agnostic, they can be just as guilty. O'Hare was a cult of personality, for instance. Same goes for Secular Humanism. Rejection of a Prime Mover does not dispose the nomenclature of being assigned a cult status.One out of 8 definitions say that to be defined as a cult, a religion has to be unorthodox. That means christianity, islam, judaism, buddhism, hiduism...any other -ism, etc. are all considered cults.
As an atheist, my personal view is just that...every single religion is a cult and they all originated as a means with which to control an unruly population. What better authority figure than one who cannot be seen (but offers a fate of eternal suffering for disobeying) never mind challenged?
I believe those would fall under:
Cult:...
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
...
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And yes, the double standard does seem ridiculous, but the fact of the matter is that it exists. There's nothing you can do about it besides live with it.
Erm, offensive language about non-minorities is really not okay either. The historical context may be different, but disparaging remarks about white people, Christians, males, heterosexuals, etc, really don't have any more of a place in polite conversation than disparaging remarks about any other group.
I believe those would fall under:
Cult:
...
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
...
What about Secular Humanism or Militant Athiesm?
What if all of his other relatives thought it was funny and that his niece was being thin skinned? He should still never use that type of humor again because one person took offence to it?I have a vegetarian friend who finds the consumption of meat, or even granulated sugar (it’s colored with bone ash) offensive, so the civil, mature thing to do is apologize to him for eating meat and never consume meat or granulated sugar again?
I... really don't know how you pulled that leap out of my tiny little footstep. I'm very sorry if I wasn't clear.
Let's try this again:
I know that the best I can hope to do with the people I interact with is to be respectful to them in the best way I know how.
I fear trying to explain beyond that, is only going to result in my words being taken out of context and turned into some kind of argument I have no intention of starting, so I'll have to trust in you that you know, in your heart, the intent of what I've posted here.
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Here's the thing about humor, it's offensive. Almost every joke ever told belittles someone, be it blacks, gays, whites, Jews, Christians, Blondes, etc. If a joke is funny it's funny. Not everyone agrees on what funny is though. That's when folks get offended. One of my favorite 'off-color' jokes involves a would be black angel, told by Whoopi Goldburg. She made a point of saying after the crowd burst out laughing that if they heard that joke told later by a white person they should laugh, "'Cause you know that sh*t is funny." On the same hand using some of those comparisons without humor is another matter. I guess to me intint counts alot.
Like i said, feel free to make all the bigoted jokes you would like. For me personally, I won't tell a racist "joke," even in close company...
I think you have 'bigoted joke' and 'racial joke' confused.
A joke that boils down to "[inssert dark-skinned people here] are stupid, I hate them." isn't a joke. It's hate.
A joke that boils down to "Jewish people have big noses. Big noses are funny." isn't hateful
Same goes for a joke that boils down to "the Christian god performs miracles. It'd be funny if he used them to cheat at golf.".
Again, it's all about place, time, and tone.
And yes, the double standard does seem ridiculous, but the fact of the matter is that it exists. There's nothing you can do about it besides live with it.
:D
Ohhhhhh, I beg to differ, Xpltv. You certianly CAN do something about it. You can do what everone ought to do when confronted by a ridiculous social standard. Ignore it for the nonsense it is, behave in a way that does make logical sense, and let those unfortunates who will inevitably get up in arms about it yell about it all they like.
Niggardly doesn't mean ignorant or uneducated, it means *stingy* or miserly, and comes from a Scandinavian term nyggard that's been around since the 1300's. Other than some Senator or Judge or something getting hounded mercilessly recently for using 'niggardly' in a speech, by people who were flamingly ignorant of it's true meaning and thought he was using a racial slur, it's got *nothing* to do with black people.
The other word is a corruption of the Spanish noun negro, descended from the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color black. It's believed that the French, using negre, started it's use as a pejorative, and it spread to English-speakers from there.
The two words have nothing in common.
+1
Ignorance is a very powerful thing.
Zo
I see that the Abyss is staring back at us this fine afternoon. Carry on, mein mensches.
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I think you have 'bigoted joke' and 'racial joke' confused.
A joke that boils down to "[inssert dark-skinned people here] are stupid, I hate them." isn't a joke. It's hate.
A joke that boils down to "Jewish people have big noses. Big noses are funny." isn't hateful
Same goes for a joke that boils down to "the Christian god performs miracles. It'd be funny if he used them to cheat at golf.".
Again, it's all about place, time, and tone.
And again, both (the first two) of those reinforce negative stereotypes and are innapropriate.
As for time and place, had you read the rest of my post, you would see from my example (which is true btw), that there is never really an apropriate time or place. You don't know everything about everybody you come in contact with. Standing in a group of white guys, you don't know who's gay, who's in an interracial or interreligious relationship, who's siblings might be mentally or physically handicapped, etc. So a joke that is potentially harmless turns out to be anything but.
:D
Ohhhhhh, I beg to differ, Xpltv. You certianly CAN do something about it. You can do what everone ought to do when confronted by a ridiculous social standard. Ignore it for the nonsense it is, behave in a way that does make logical sense, and let those unfortunates who will inevitably get up in arms about it yell about it all they like.
Aah, i think of clerks 2 when i hear this argument. The guy decides he's going to "take back" the term "porch monkey" b/c his grandma called him that and he didn't think it had racial connotations. The thing is there are certain terms and stereotypes that should never be held up in any manner (really no stereotypes should be held up, even jokingly), it is best to leave them as they lie, buried with the rest of that ugly time of american and white history.
Here's the thing about humor, it's offensive. Almost every joke ever told belittles someone...
Actually, that's a huge overstatement. There's a transparently obvious difference between laughing AT someone and laughing WITH someone. The fact that it's EASIER to mass produce sarcasm and belittlement humor was enormously convenient to vaudeville and then to the mass media formula comedies it influenced.
So, no, not every comedian must be Nelson from The Simpsons.
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Niggardly doesn't mean ignorant or uneducated, it means *stingy* or miserly, and comes from a Scandinavian term nyggard that's been around since the 1300's. Other than some Senator or Judge or something getting hounded mercilessly recently for using 'niggardly' in a speech, by people who were flamingly ignorant of it's true meaning and thought he was using a racial slur, it's got *nothing* to do with black people.
The other word is a corruption of the Spanish noun negro, descended from the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color black. It's believed that the French, using negre, started it's use as a pejorative, and it spread to English-speakers from there.
The two words have nothing in common.
+1
Ignorance is a very powerful thing.
Zo
OH FFS, really? use some damn common sense. What's the first thing that most people think of when they hear that word? C'mon people, don't be dense. If you want to continue to use that word, go ahead, but i would be willing to bet you wouldn't use it in a crowd of black people, now would you?
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Here's the thing about humor, it's offensive. Almost every joke ever told belittles someone...Actually, that's a huge overstatement. There's a transparent difference between laughing AT someone and laughing WITH someone. The fact that it's EASIER to mass produce sarcasm and belittlement humor was enormously convenient to vaudeville and then to the mass media formula comedies it influenced.
So, no, not every comedian must be Nelson from The Simpsons.
I'm not saying you must laugh AT someone, only that humor is often at someones expense. Be it a particular person or a group, it's not meant to be cruel or to hateful. I'd be hard pressed to think of many jokes that don't poke fun of someone. It's the intent behind it that makes it funny or not. As was stated in the rest of my post.
I believe it comes back to an ideal.What about Secular Humanism or Militant Athiesm?I believe those would fall under:
Cult:
...
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
...
Why is it an ideal and not a cult? Other religions and/or cults could also be defined as ideals when they're not part of an organized group; but a matter of personal self-contemplation.
I have issues with certain organized religions too and I consider myself to be a secular atheist, but I know better than to proclaim that everything else is a cult/opiate of the masses and not my (lack of) beliefs.
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I believe it comes back to an ideal.What about Secular Humanism or Militant Athiesm?I believe those would fall under:
Cult:
...
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
...Why is it an ideal and not a cult? Other religions and/or cults could also be defined as ideals when they're not part of an organized group; but a matter of personal self-contemplation.
I have issues with certain organized religions too and I consider myself to be a secular atheist, but I know better than to proclaim that everything else is a cult/opiate of the masses and not my (lack of) beliefs.
Read my entire post. the stuff to the right of the number 2 is from the definition of cult. Since Secular humanism and militant atheism are upholding an ideal, they would fit the definition of a cult.
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I am bit surprised this thread is still around and appears to have the stamp of approval from Paizo, so long as it doesn't turn into a flame war.
While I appreciate that people want to discuss the nature of racism and bigotry with (in some cases) complete strangers, what does this thread really achieve? Some people will never change their mind no matter how much you try to educate them. And I find it easier to ignore those people than engage them.
I guess I should not have clicked on the link when I saw (this thread may offend!) but I guess I was curious and I wasn't really expecting the particular topic would apply to me in multiple ways. So, yes, it is my own fault that I got in here and became offended. There is no doubt about that.
But I am at a loss to see how this topic fosters the so-called sense of "community" discussed above. It actually makes me feel uncomfortable.
There are definitely times where I wish Paizo had the same rule about religion, race, politics, and sexual orientation that ENWorld has. Don't mention it and you will be fine. I don't want to limit discussion, honestly, I just want to limit the kind of negative feelings those kinds of topics instill. And limit the fallout that Paizo might experience in the process.
And, while I know Paizo isn't the one condoning these things necessarily, I cannot help but feel negatively towards the company when these sorts of things are allowed to flourish here. Endless conversations that convince no one serve no purpose. They only serve to offend more people or make others feel justified in their word usage. I am pretty confident that it won't convince people to buy Paizo products. But it might convince some people that this community is not a place they want to be. And that would be a great loss.
Darn.....I really should not have come into this thread. Now I am quite sour about the whole thing.
Continuing discussing, I suppose. I said my piece and I will bow out and avoid this thread in the future. I am pretty sure anything I say won't have much of an impact in any case.
Personally my definition for cult has always been “Any religion whose total following can fit in some dudes basement, and/or any religious organization that has been wiped out by Conan the Barbarian.”
While I appreciate that people want to discuss the nature of racism and bigotry with (in some cases) complete strangers, what does this thread really achieve?
In all fairness this thread was started in the off-topic board where nothing ever gets achieved. And that’s okay.