Read my entire post. the stuff to the right of the number 2 is from the definition of cult. Since Secular humanism and militant atheism are upholding an ideal, they would fit the definition of a cult.
My apologies. Thanks for clarifying. :)
Aah, i think of clerks 2 when i hear this argument. The guy decides he's going to "take back" the term "porch monkey" b/c his grandma called him that and he didn't think it had racial connotations. The thing is there are certain terms and stereotypes that should never be held up in any manner (really no stereotypes should be held up, even jokingly), it is best to leave them as they lie, buried with the rest of that ugly time of american and white history.
Except that nobody is suggesting that we bring back racist terminology. You said that the double-standard was there and that there's nothing anyone can do about it. I disagree. You ignore it, and use common sense to make jokes in appropriate situations.
There really isn't anything you can't laugh about in some context, in the appropriate situation. For example...
My jaw dropped, and then I nearly died laughing. Why was it okay to laugh? Because we, the audience, know that it's a joke. Told properly, with the right audience (people who came to a very raunchy comedian's show to laugh and be offended), with the right tone (obvious jest), nothing really is sacred.
There really isn't anything you can't laugh about in some context, in the appropriate situation.
And that situation is in fast motion, set to the Benny Hill theme song.
Why it's "like a knife in the heart":
Knife in the HeartScroll down to the next article on that page, entitled: The Case Against Banning the Word 'Retard'
Interestingly, the final paragraphs of the article you reference say:
If interest groups want to pour resources into cleaning up unintentional insults, more power to them; we surely would benefit from greater kindness to one another. But we must not let "retard" go without a requiem. If the goal is to protect intellectually disabled individuals from put-downs and prejudice, it won't succeed. New words of insult will replace old ones.
Words are ideas, and we should be reluctant to surrender any of them. Freedom of expression has come at a dear price, and it is not worth abridging, even so we can get along a little better. That's one F-word we really can't do without.
Bolding mine.
stuff
I don't care that insults exist, I just decry the OP statement that it should be 'OK' to use them because all of his friends do. It's not OK. How about using 'stupid' or 'useless' instead of a word that is specifically hurtfull? Do you have to use words that some people find offensive? In public? You can use any damn words you want, it's America, go to town. Just don't expect me to pat you on the back and say it's OK. 'Gay' and 'retarded' don't hit the swear filter like 'shit' or 'f$&~' might. Fine. It speaks to your character, and I should really thank you for revealing your true self online. Bravo. I can now discount anything you write. Saves me some reading time.
If all of my friends and I used the phrase 'whiny REMF pogue' to describe people we don't like, it might offend military folks who aren't 11B. Thus I wouldn't use the phrase to describe anyone, especially anyone posting on this thread. And I was a REMF pogue myself, so I guess it's OK to use the phrase to describe people.
I'm not saying you must laugh AT someone, only that humor is often at someones expense. Be it a particular person or a group, it's not meant to be cruel or to hateful. I'd be hard pressed to think of many jokes that don't poke fun of someone. It's the intent behind it that makes it funny or not. As was stated in the rest of my post.Here's the thing about humor, it's offensive. Almost every joke ever told belittles someone...Actually, that's a huge overstatement. There's a transparent difference between laughing AT someone and laughing WITH someone. The fact that it's EASIER to mass produce sarcasm and belittlement humor was enormously convenient to vaudeville and then to the mass media formula comedies it influenced.
So, no, not every comedian must be Nelson from The Simpsons.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall down a manhole and die." - Mel Brooks
stuffI don't care that insults exist, I just decry the OP statement that it should be 'OK' to use them because all of his friends do. It's not OK. How about using 'stupid' or 'useless' instead of a word that is specifically hurtfull? Do you have to use words that some people find offensive? In public? You can use any damn words you want, it's America, go to town. Just don't expect me to pat you on the back and say it's OK. 'Gay' and 'retarded' don't hit the swear filter like 's%&~' or 'f!!%' might. Fine. It speaks to your character, and I should really thank you for revealing your true self online. Bravo. I can now discount anything you write. Saves me some reading time.
If all of my friends and I used the phrase 'whiny REMF pogue' to describe people we don't like, it might offend military folks who aren't 11B. Thus I wouldn't use the phrase to describe anyone, especially anyone posting on this thread. And I was a REMF pogue myself, so I guess it's OK to use the phrase to describe people.
Really I never meant to give the impression that I agree with what the OP said. I disapprove of the way he uses ‘Gay’ and ‘Retarded’ as a way to mean “something I don’t like.” And I have said as much. When I say gay I mean homosexual, and when I say retarded I mean stupid. “Why don’t I just say stupid?” you ask?
1. Because they are f***ing synonyms. Calling someone stupid, or an idiot, or a simpleton, or a moron is no better or worse than calling them retarded. If you think the word retarded has any more power than the other four it only has it because you empowered it to in your mind.
2. Because my cousin was called stupid more often than she was called retard. Were I as thin skinned as some of the people around here I would be flagging every post with the word stupid in it (hey, that includes yours!).
As I said before if I said anything that offends you I’m sorry that it offended you, I’m not sorry that I used a word per one of its written definitions.
As I said before if I said anything that offends you I’m sorry that it offended you, I’m not sorry that I used a word...
Prince, I'm not really offended by you, just the tone of the OP's original post. Perhaps I shouldn't have quoted you as you seem to have taken offense by it. I agree with you, those terms have uses.
HOWEVER, those words, when used pejoratively, are ofensive. If you use 'retarded' to describe anything other than a mentally-challenged person, it is pejorative. Stupid is NOT a f~*+ing synonym for retarded. Stupid has a wide-range of usage. Retarded does not. It is either used to describe a mentally-challenged person in a clinical fashion, or it is used as a slur.
If you use 'gay' to describe anything other than a happy mood or a homosexual person it is a slur. You are using it to denigrate someone else, basically saying that they are a worthless hommaseckshul, which is obviously a Bad Thing. Go ahead and use the words, it just points to your character.
Yeah, and I realize it's impossible to create non-hurtful words because people will always twist them around given time. All I am saying is that people DO find them offensive, and thus, by using them in a public forum, you make yourself look like a classless jerk.
Once again, I don't ask that you not use the words, feel free. That's the magic of the 1st Amendment. Just don't expect me to think it's cool and giggle along with you.
Stupid is NOT a f&&#ing synonym for retarded. Stupid has a wide-range of usage. Retarded does not.
From thesaurus.reference.com
Main Entry: retarded
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: limited
Synonyms: backward, birdbrained, defective, dim, dim-witted, dopey, dull, dumbbell, dumbo, dumdum, dummy, exceptional, feeble-minded, gorked, half-witted, held back, imbecile, lamebrained, mentally defective, moronic, numbskull, opaque, pinhead, retardo, sappy, simple, simple-minded, slow, slow-witted, stupid, subnormal, touched, underachieving, weak, yo-yo
I don't care if mentaly handicaped is the only way you use the word, it has other meanings.
If you use 'gay' to describe anything other than a happy mood or a homosexual person it is a slur. You are using it to denigrate someone else, basically saying that they are a worthless hommaseckshul, which is obviously a Bad Thing.
As I said, I have never used gay to mean anything other than homosexual if I use it in a joke I don't use it to mean anything other than the fact that an act, to an outsider who does not know the context of the situation might find homosexual, much as Francis did in the past in the PvP online comic. I know there is a common use of the word as an insult, and it urks me as well, but I don't think the solution is to avoid the word all together unless it is solemnly said in reference to a person who is solely attracted to people of the same gender.
Once again, I don't ask that you not use the words, feel free. That's the magic of the 1st Amendment. Just don't expect me to think it's cool and giggle along with you.
I don't see that anyone is giggling or trying to 'act cool' here.
Yeah, you know what? I'm posting angry. I'm dropping the subject, and the thread. I apologize Prince, in that somehow I have transferred my initial irritation at Jared's initial post towards you. I believe we are arguing very close to the same stream, but that our communication is kinda sketchy ATM.
What I am trying to convey, in the limited fashion that is the Internet, is that arguing that's it's OK to say these words is fine. It is perfectly fine to use them. I even spent time defending the document which enshrines that right. But how about manning up to the manner in which they are being used? This is not directed at you Prince, rather the OP. He wants to use the words in a denigrating fashion without the taint of guilt for using them. That I call shenanigans on.
Yeah, you know what? I'm posting angry. I'm dropping the subject, and the thread. I apologize Prince, in that somehow I have transferred my initial irritation at Jared's initial post towards you. I believe we are arguing very close to the same stream, but that our communication is kinda sketchy ATM.
What I am trying to convey, in the limited fashion that is the Internet, is that arguing that's it's OK to say these words is fine. It is perfectly fine to use them. I even spent time defending the document which enshrines that right. But how about manning up to the manner in which they are being used? This is not directed at you Prince, rather the OP. He wants to use the words in a denigrating fashion without the taint of guilt for using them. That I call shenanigans on.
Awww, I love you too buddy. C'mere and give me a hug!
Francis: "Gaaaaaaaaaay"
Damn... Walked right into that one...
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Aah, i think of clerks 2 when i hear this argument. The guy decides he's going to "take back" the term "porch monkey" b/c his grandma called him that and he didn't think it had racial connotations. The thing is there are certain terms and stereotypes that should never be held up in any manner (really no stereotypes should be held up, even jokingly), it is best to leave them as they lie, buried with the rest of that ugly time of american and white history.Except that nobody is suggesting that we bring back racist terminology. You said that the double-standard was there and that there's nothing anyone can do about it. I disagree. You ignore it, and use common sense to make jokes in appropriate situations.
There really isn't anything you can't laugh about in some context, in the appropriate situation. For example...
** spoiler omitted **
I guess that's where you and I disagree...you see i feel that "jokes" taht uphold and continue negative stereotypes are in and of themselves racist. You don't have to use racial slurs to make the words you are saying racist.
Also, like i have tried to illustrate, there really isn't an appropriate situation. You never know what the other person's situation is. They could be in an interracial relationship like myself or it could be something like this little gem i was told about at a customer service call center job i worked:
White guy is on the phone with a customer, except this white guy likes to talk the "ebonics." Well his customer gets upset, and says something to the effect of "why don't you get somebody who ain't a *n-word* to help me?" White guy didn't say a thing to the customer, but called over his black supervisor who is from england. He gets on the phone, and the customer says something along the lines of "thank god, all i get are them *n-words*!" The supervisor immediately rips into him and explains the situation (that the guy let stereotypes rule his judgement of people) before hanging up on him.
While you probably won't face this situation, as you'll be face to face when you tell your "jokes" you can never know everything about everyone you know, so you could be offending them and not even know it until it's too late.
Well, I'd definitely consider that funny because it's ironic.
Interestingly, the final paragraphs of the article you reference say:
Bolding mine.If interest groups want to pour resources into cleaning up unintentional insults, more power to them; we surely would benefit from greater kindness to one another. But we must not let "retard" go without a requiem. If the goal is to protect intellectually disabled individuals from put-downs and prejudice, it won't succeed. New words of insult will replace old ones.
Well, thank you and Tarran for going to the sites.
I will point out one thing, however, which is that the counter to the argument you quote is that some things are worth doing even if the goal cannot be accomplished. As A. J. MacInerney put it: "Oh, you only fight the fights you can win? You fight the fights that need fighting!" Lots of DnD parties have that debate, with the sides often broken down by alignment lines.
Also, of course, laws and resources and programs are fine things. But without changing the culture that justified and supported the injustice, those won't be enough. And vice-versa.
Interestingly, the final paragraphs of the article you reference say:
Bolding mine.If interest groups want to pour resources into cleaning up unintentional insults, more power to them; we surely would benefit from greater kindness to one another. But we must not let "retard" go without a requiem. If the goal is to protect intellectually disabled individuals from put-downs and prejudice, it won't succeed. New words of insult will replace old ones.
Well, thank you and Tarran for going to the sites.
I will point out one thing, however, which is that the counter to the argument you quote is that some things are worth doing even if the goal cannot be accomplished. As A. J. MacInerney put it: "Oh, you only fight the fights you can win? You fight the fights that need fighting!" Lots of DnD parties have that debate, with the sides often broken down by alignment lines.
Also, of course, laws and resources and programs are fine things. But without changing the culture that justified and supported the injustice, those won't be enough. And vice-versa.
I just don’t think it’s a very worthwhile cause to fight for. If you’re going to fight a battle you can’t win wouldn’t it make more sense to fight for people to stop insulting the handicapped rather than fighting for people who aren’t insulting the handicapped to stop using a word that the people who are insulting the handicapped are using to insult them?
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I just don’t think it’s a very worthwhile cause to fight for. If you’re going to fight a battle you can’t win wouldn’t it make more sense to fight for people to stop insulting the handicapped rather than fighting for people who aren’t insulting the handicapped to stop using a word that the people who are insulting the handicapped are using to insult them?
I think the point is that they ARE fighting to end prejudice against the handicapped. Whenever you start a fight for something like that you have to have an issue that seems simple, that people see or hear everyday to bring the issue to the spotlight. What do you think blacks wanted as an end product of the civil rights movement...to be able to pick any seat they wanted on a bus or sit where they wanted at the lunch counter? Yeah, that was part of it, but the bigger issue was equal treatment with other citizens. The idea was so abstract that there wouldn't have been much headway because equal rights encompasses so many different things. By starting small with demanding equal seating, they brought those small issues to the forefront of the debate, and with them, the rest of the struggle.
As an "old-timer" here on the Paizo boards, here's how I look at it:
A lot of us came here, long before 4e, because other boards were nothing but people yelling "retard," "that's gay," and "that's made of suck!" We got REALLY tired of it, and had sort of an unspoken gentlemen's agreement not to do that here.
With the release of Pathfinder, there are oceans of new posters. Most of them don't understand that context, and many of them were perfectly happy over at the "f-tard" boards.
Which leaves us with a quandary. If I want to hear about how things are so "gay" or "retarded," I can hang around the younger kids in my office. If that's what these boards are to become, well, I have a feeling that people like Heathansson, Fake Healer, Tarren Dei, and myself -- to name just a few -- will gradually stop posting, and leave this forum to the wasteland of others with that sort of interaction. (In my case, I know there are quite a number of relative newcomers who would welcome my departure, so I've just explained how to get rid of me.)
I'm not talking about "political correctness," or affirmative action, or whatever other large-scale social theory you're for or against at the moment. I'm just interested in having one game-related forum where old people can continue exchange ideas without having to listen to a bunch of teenage slang.
...and GET OFF MY LAWN!
:P
...and GET OFF MY LAWN!
Exactly! I'm not "offended" by this stuff; I just don't want to have to listen to it.
Just like hip-hop.
As an "old-timer" here on the Paizo boards, here's how I look at it:
A lot of us came here, long before 4e, because other boards were nothing but people yelling "retard," "that's gay," and "that's made of suck!" We got REALLY tired of it, and had sort of an unspoken gentlemen's agreement not to do that here.With the release of Pathfinder, there are oceans of new posters. Most of them don't understand that context, and many of them were perfectly happy over at the "f-tard" boards.
Which leaves us with a quandary. If I want to hear about how things are so "gay" or "retarded," I can hang around the younger kids in my office. If that's what these boards are to become, well, I have a feeling that people like Heathansson, Fake Healer, Tarren Dei, and myself -- to name just a few -- will gradually stop posting, and leave this forum to the wasteland of others with that sort of interaction. (In my case, I know there are quite a number of relative newcomers who would welcome my departure, so I've just explained how to get rid of me.)
I'm not talking about "political correctness," or affirmative action, or whatever other large-scale social theory you're for or against at the moment. I'm just interested in having one game-related forum where old people can continue exchange ideas without having to listen to a bunch of teenage slang.
What he said.
Exactly! I'm not "offended" by this stuff; I just don't want to have to listen to it.
Just like hip-hop.
Word to your mother, Kirth. :P
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Which leaves us with a quandary. If I want to hear about how things are so "gay" or "retarded," I can hang around the younger kids in my office. If that's what these boards are to become, well, I have a feeling that people like Heathansson, Fake Healer, Tarren Dei, and myself -- to name just a few -- will gradually stop posting, and leave this forum to the wasteland of others with that sort of interaction. (In my case, I know there are quite a number of relative newcomers who would welcome my departure, so I've just explained how to get rid of me.)
I blame myself. If only I had been a bigger bastard, all of this could've been prevented...
Oh well, only one thing to do. Be even more of a bastard! I'll do my damndest to drive off enough people that we have a nice, small, homey little community again. I'm pretty sure the Paizo staff approve of this mission.
I blame myself. If only I had been a bigger bastard, all of this* could've been prevented...Oh well, only one thing to do. Be even more of a bastard! I'll do my damndest to drive off enough people that we have a nice, small, homey little community again. I'm pretty sure the Paizo staff approve of this mission.
In fact, we do! As one of the original abusers of our alias function, Sebastian has proven himself as the sort of blight that keeps this community healthy and...uh...friendly?
No...that's not the right word...
Repugnant! That's what I'm looking for.
Special blast from the past post for all you old-timers. The original cranky Sebastian avatar, back for a limited time only.
Grr.
Special blast from the past post for all you old-timers. The original cranky Sebastian avatar, back for a limited time only.
YEAH!
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so, we can't make jokes about blondes? or lawyers?
In my opinion, you have to gauge your audience. If unfamiliar or they didn't come and pay to see you be politically incorrect, then at least have a little bit of decorum. Otherwise, I'm the believer that there's nothing that's taboo that can't be parodied.
In open forums such as these, it may be hard to gauge your audience. Best to keep it clean and respectful.
Personally, using 'gay' or 'retard' is offensive to many and also shows a limited ability to express yourself properly.
In saying that, I have been guilty of using both terms in the past - but only amongst people that are close to me and I knew would not be offended. That does not justify using those terms and I usually try to refrain from doing so.
ego onanism. Nice.
OH FFS, really? use some damn common sense. What's the first thing that most people think of when they hear that word? C'mon people, don't be dense. If you want to continue to use that word, go ahead, but i would be willing to bet you wouldn't use it in a crowd of black people, now would you?
Ignorance is a very powerful thing.Zo
Didn't even bother to click the link, did you? You just go and assume that "black people" wouldn't be able to handle the word? In crowds. So if it was just one individual of African descent, no worries, but if it's a crowd, watch what you say or they'll KICK YO' HONKY A#$? Unbelievable. Sometimes I wish the Paizo forum had an ignore button.
Zo
Edited to remove expletive
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OH FFS, really? use some damn common sense. What's the first thing that most people think of when they hear that word? C'mon people, don't be dense. If you want to continue to use that word, go ahead, but i would be willing to bet you wouldn't use it in a crowd of black people, now would you?
Ignorance is a very powerful thing.Zo
Didn't even bother to click the link, did you? You just go and assume that "black people" wouldn't be able to handle the word? In crowds. So if it was just one individual of African descent, no worries, but if it's a crowd, watch what you say or they'll KICK YO' HONKY A#$? Unbelievable. Sometimes I wish the Paizo forum had an ignore button.
Zo
Edited to remove expletive
I could care less what it's meaning is...it's an archaic word which bears phonetic similarities to a very offensive racial slur. Do people just lack common sense? Let's use a very obscure word that very few people are going to know the definition of that sounds a lot like another word that EVERYBODY knows the definition of and knows is a very inappropriate word.
Defend the use of the word all you want, but it's just plain dumb to use a word like that when you could just as well say miserly.
And, by the tone of your post, i get the feeling that you believe me to be some type of closet racist. Which, in my opinion, makes you even more of an idiot considering my wife and one of my children are black.
I could care less what it's meaning is...[cut]
And, by the tone of your post, i get the feeling that you believe me to be some type of closet racist. Which, in my opinion, makes you even more of an idiot considering my wife and one of my children are black.
Nice. An insult, a fallacious argument, and a will to ignorance. I'm done with you, dude. Stay classy.
Zo
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I could care less what it's meaning is...
And, by the tone of your post, i get the feeling that you believe me to be some type of closet racist. Which, in my opinion, makes you even more of an idiot considering my wife and one of my children are black.Nice. Insults, a fallacious argument, and a will to ignorance. I'm done with you, dude. Stay classy.
Zo
Well I'm assuming that if you hadn't meant what you posted the way i described it, you would have corrected me on my false assumption. Considering that you didn't I can only surmise that my original interpretation of you implying i was a racist was correct.
But way to address none of the substance of my post :D
If that means someone gets to use my name as a stand-in for dumb, idiotic, or retarded, then go ahead, I won't be offended as long as I get to use the words that I want to.
You've been beaten to the punch:
"I've got a new name for dumb. This is the Ridleyest thing I ever heard of."
Special blast from the past post for all you old-timers. The original cranky Sebastian avatar, back for a limited time only.
Grr.
Well, you're a handsome devil. Welcome back.
I could care less what it's meaning is...it's an archaic word which bears phonetic similarities to a very offensive racial slur. Do people just lack common sense? Let's use a very obscure word that very few people are going to know the definition of that sounds a lot like another word that EVERYBODY knows the definition of and knows is a very inappropriate word.Defend the use of the word all you want, but it's just plain dumb to use a word like that when you could just as well say miserly.
A friend of mine works at an office in DC. He was discussing with some co-workers things it was smart to budget generously on and that one would not want to pay less for and get crap. He used the word and a black woman gave him the look. He started to explain the origins of the word and then realized exactly what you're saying.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I once used the expression, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey" as I walked into a university class I was teaching on a -20C day. The 'take-it-personally-and-object-to-everything' girl in the front took it very personally and objected. She wouldn't believe me that brass monkeys were cannonball trays that shrunk with the cold used on sailing ships. Oh well.
Personally, I can see myself using 'niggardly' and doing it without realizing that many people don't know the meaning of the word. I wouldn't do it if it occurred to me that people were likely to take it the wrong way, but I could easily see myself using it as I do know the meaning of the word.
I'm afraid I can't agree with jumping on this one anymore than I could agree with getting rid of the word 'history' because it has 'his' in it.
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In regard to the OP, it's really very simple.: You can use whatever words you like, but if people say they're offended, any response other than "I'm sorry I offended you" or the like moves you closer to a@%&#%~@ territory (explaining what you meant doesn't move you as far as "It's my right, deal with it"). So if you act like an a&~~&@%#, people treat you like one, why is that hard to understand?
As regards humour, the same applies, if people are offended, it's best to apologise, move on and remember not to tell that sort of joke in front of that person again. I've had a joke that I thought was fairly inoffensive removed from these boards. I know not to make that sort of joke here again, and apologised for causing offence as I hadn't intended to. Do I think people are being overly sensitive? Well, yeah, a bit, but I'm a grown up so deliberately causing offence once I've been informed it is causing offence to assert my right to free speech is pretty childish.
I just can't help but be amused by a lot of this.
(Yes, I know all of this is anecdotal.)
I grew up in one of those "inbred redneck" towns. There's a fair amount of blacks and Hispanics in the area. Yes, predominately white, but there are racial minorities.
I'm quite sure there were/are true stereotypical racists for who the only reason they weren't members of the KKK was for want of a local branch.
That said - it wasn't until the ever-increasing popularity of rap that I began to hear regular use of the "n-word". Sure, it was occasionally (rarely) heard uttered quietly by some loser (see above), but most folks didn't use it, and the majority of folks lived in peace and harmony with each other. There were mixed-race families, things were just fine.
Then came a time when "that word" was heard oh-so-regularly.
Along come so-called "comedians" like that hack Mencia. Similiarly, that idiot popularized use of Hispanic slurs on the same level.
Given the prevalence of the "n-word" in daily life (I quite literally can't go a day without hearing it on the radio, television or overhearing it in conversation (NOT in a derogatory fashion - "Wazzup, my n****z?!") - is it really any surprise that the word isn't going away?
Time was, well-raised people ignored the miscreants who uttered such slurs, and shunned association with them. Said words seemed well on their way out of popular usage, only to be brought back, both in completely idiotic attempts to "reclaim" them, or by people attempting to be thought police - and now look where we are.
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As an "old-timer" here on the Paizo boards, here's how I look at it:
A lot of us came here, long before 4e, because other boards were nothing but people yelling "retard," "that's gay," and "that's made of suck!" We got REALLY tired of it, and had sort of an unspoken gentlemen's agreement not to do that here.With the release of Pathfinder, there are oceans of new posters. Most of them don't understand that context, and many of them were perfectly happy over at the "f-tard" boards.
Which leaves us with a quandary. If I want to hear about how things are so "gay" or "retarded," I can hang around the younger kids in my office. If that's what these boards are to become, well, I have a feeling that people like Heathansson, Fake Healer, Tarren Dei, and myself -- to name just a few -- will gradually stop posting, and leave this forum to the wasteland of others with that sort of interaction. (In my case, I know there are quite a number of relative newcomers who would welcome my departure, so I've just explained how to get rid of me.)
I'm not talking about "political correctness," or affirmative action, or whatever other large-scale social theory you're for or against at the moment. I'm just interested in having one game-related forum where old people can continue exchange ideas without having to listen to a bunch of teenage slang.
My thoughts exactly. Once again Kirth explains it better than I could.
Say that, which you wish
Paizo free to remove it
I may disagree
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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You post a haiku
You know there's a thread for that?
It's The Haiku Game.
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Yeah, you know what? I'm posting angry. I'm dropping the subject, and the thread. I apologize Prince, in that somehow I have transferred my initial irritation at Jared's initial post towards you. I believe we are arguing very close to the same stream, but that our communication is kinda sketchy ATM.
What I am trying to convey, in the limited fashion that is the Internet, is that arguing that's it's OK to say these words is fine. It is perfectly fine to use them. I even spent time defending the document which enshrines that right. But how about manning up to the manner in which they are being used? This is not directed at you Prince, rather the OP. He wants to use the words in a denigrating fashion without the taint of guilt for using them. That I call shenanigans on.
Well, no, I don't feel guilty for using them, because I'm not calling someone a retard or gay, I'm saying that their idea may be retarded or gay. I don't think I need to feel quilty even if I DO call them names, but I refrain from doing so on this messageboard. I'm allowed to call their ideas stupid, dumb, obtuse, moronic, etc., but I'm not allowed to call them retarded or gay?
Double standards much?
Oh, and I never said anything about the n word. Until someone asked. But that is completely different from retard and gay, as retard and gay can mean many things while the n word can only mean one thing.
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stuffI don't care that insults exist, I just decry the OP statement that it should be 'OK' to use them because all of his friends do. It's not OK. How about using 'stupid' or 'useless' instead of a word that is specifically hurtfull? Do you have to use words that some people find offensive? In public? You can use any damn words you want, it's America, go to town. Just don't expect me to pat you on the back and say it's OK. 'Gay' and 'retarded' don't hit the swear filter like 's&!#' or 'f!@!' might. Fine. It speaks to your character, and I should really thank you for revealing your true self online. Bravo. I can now discount anything you write. Saves me some reading time.
Wow, really? To be honest Pat (can I call you Pat?), I never really cared what you think about me. Discount everything I write? How childish of you, and here you were the one trying to chastize me for the same behavior.
Also, I don't know what idea you were trying to convey in your second paragraph.
Oh, and I never said anything about the n word. Until someone asked. But that is completely different from retard and gay, as retard and gay can mean many things while the n word can only mean one thing.
Yes, gay can mean many things. None of these things are 'stupid' or 'bad' though.
Main Entry: gay
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: homosexual
Synonyms: Sapphic, homoerotic, homophile, lesbian
Antonyms: heterosexual
Main Entry: gay
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: happy
Synonyms: alert, animate, animated, blithe, blithesome, bouncy, brash, carefree, cheerful, cheery, chipper, chirpy, confident, convivial, devil-may-care, festive, forward, frivolous, frolicsome, fun-loving, gamesome, glad, gleeful, hilarious, insouciant, jocund, jolly, jovial, joyful, joyous, keen, lighthearted, lively, merry, mirthful, playful, pleasure-seeking, presuming, pushy, rollicking, self-assertive, sparkling, spirited, sportive, sprightly, sunny, vivacious, wild, zippy
If you use the word to mean bad or stupid you are either saying that happy things are bad or stupid, or that homosexuals are bad or stupid. You might not mean it that way, but the fact remains you are using the word incorrectly if you don't mean it that way.
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stuffI don't care that insults exist, I just decry the OP statement that it should be 'OK' to use them because all of his friends do. It's not OK. How about using 'stupid' or 'useless' instead of a word that is specifically hurtfull? Do you have to use words that some people find offensive? In public? You can use any damn words you want, it's America, go to town. Just don't expect me to pat you on the back and say it's OK. 'Gay' and 'retarded' don't hit the swear filter like 's&!#' or 'f!@!' might. Fine. It speaks to your character, and I should really thank you for revealing your true self online. Bravo. I can now discount anything you write. Saves me some reading time.
Wow, really? To be honest Pat (can I call you Pat?), I never really cared what you think about me. Discount everything I write? How childish of you, and here you were the one trying to chastize me for the same behavior.
Also, I don't know what idea you were trying to convey in your second paragraph.
Are you just looking for a fight or does being an asshat come natural to you? We've all been guilty of using derogratory terms at one point or another, doesn't make it right. If you knowingly use terms that you know are offensive then that's just... well, being an asshat. But you'll stand by what you said and show no attempt at apology. Use of terms such as Gay or Retard when used as insults degrade a group of people. That is a fact, you don't have to like it, but you know it's true. So either stop using the terms, or deal with the backlash without whining like a lil' brat when people get offended.
That's idiotic.